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On June 13 2013 08:13 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:10 Klondikebar wrote:On June 13 2013 07:11 jinorazi wrote:
the world revolves around usa, didnt you guys get the memo? Ok this is gonna sound really dumb but do the Japanese celebrate Christmas as a major holiday? Cause if PS4 releases for Christmas and Xbox doesn't...they've essentially sacrificed any potential install base in Japan. Xbox has almost no market in Asia in the first place. Sony and Nintendo completely own over there. The fact that the ps4 is lower priced and coming out sooner breaks it for MS. Even if they came out at the same time Sony would still win over there. It's how much are microsoft willing to lose to focus on the US, EU, and AU.
Well Microsoft didn't have to roll over and die so quickly this generation. I mean they could have at least set a holiday release date for Japan. I know the 360 had no appreciable following but they didn't have to follow that trend with the One.
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On June 13 2013 12:22 paralleluniverse wrote:
You're all missing the point. The competition is not between distribution platforms, (e.g. Steam vs Amazon vs Sony store vs Microsoft store). The competition is between developers. Because developers set the prices. They set the price on Steam, on Amazon, on the Sony store, on the Microsoft store, they choose if and when games go on sale and by how much. The amount of distribution platforms should have virtually no effect, because the distributor doesn't set the price. Therefore, if every video game in the world is sold on Steam and nowhere else, that would not mean Steam would have a monopoly because Steam doesn't set prices and there would still be competition between developers. This is similar to how the NYSE doesn't have a monopoly on American shares, even though virtually all American shares are traded on the NYSE.
Used games absolutely do have an effect. If games can be resold then people will take into account that they can recoup costs by resale, so that they are willing to pay a higher price for the game than if resale isn't possible. Therefore, restricting resale means that people are less willing to pay that price, so that demand falls unless prices are reduced.
Also, when did Sony say that all games will be available digitally on release day (Microsoft have said this) and that digital games can't be resold?
Because they already are on PS3 and have been for ages ? Not for every game but a huge amount of them.
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On June 13 2013 12:22 paralleluniverse wrote:
You're all missing the point. The competition is not between distribution platforms, (e.g. Steam vs Amazon vs Sony store vs Microsoft store). The competition is between developers. Because developers set the prices. They set the price on Steam, on Amazon, on the Sony store, on the Microsoft store, they choose if and when games go on sale and by how much. The amount of distribution platforms should have virtually no effect, because the distributor doesn't set the price. Therefore, if every video game in the world is sold on Steam and nowhere else, that would not mean Steam would have a monopoly because Steam doesn't set prices and there would still be competition between developers. This is similar to how the NYSE doesn't have a monopoly on American shares, even though virtually all American shares are traded on the NYSE.
Used games absolutely do have an effect. If games can be resold then people will take into account that they can recoup costs by resale, so that they are willing to pay a higher price for the game than if resale isn't possible. Therefore, restricting resale means that people are less willing to pay that price, so that demand falls unless prices are reduced.
Also, when did Sony say that all games will be available digitally on release day (Microsoft have said this) and that digital games can't be resold?
Developers set prices to an extent. Stores still have control over other parts of the prices. Stores mark up their prices so they can make a profit. Stores can also take a loss if they feel it is necessary to bring customers in. Developers set the minimum price basically.
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I don't mean to derail the discussion but I have a question for those that don't (for some odd reason) have a vendetta against PS4 or Xbox One (those who dont use the terms Xbone, Xboxdone, or POS4).
Im not a fan of modern MMO's like WoW or its clones but I loved UO. After hearing that Elder Scrolls Online will be released on both Consoles, what do you guys think the chances are that it will have a large user base on either? They have already stated that they will have 3 different server sets for Xbox/PS/PC+Mac. I might give it a try and it would be better on PC due to the mouse and keyboard. But do you think there is any real chance that it will catch on with PS or Xbox users? Or would it most likely be empty servers on consoles?
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On June 13 2013 15:09 takingbackoj wrote:
I don't mean to derail the discussion but I have a question for those that don't (for some odd reason) have a vendetta against PS4 or Xbox One (those who dont use the terms Xbone, Xboxdone, or POS4).
Im not a fan of modern MMO's like WoW or its clones but I loved UO. After hearing that Elder Scrolls Online will be released on both Consoles, what do you guys think the chances are that it will have a large user base on either? They have already stated that they will have 3 different server sets for Xbox/PS/PC+Mac. I might give it a try and it would be better on PC due to the mouse and keyboard. But do you think there is any real chance that it will catch on with PS or Xbox users? Or would it most likely be empty servers on consoles?
It is pretty hard to say really. The entire MMO market is extremely difficult to judge actually. Odds are against there ever being actual empty servers though, regardless of which version you play. The only time the world will feel empty is if they fail on the server end AND fail on selling the game. TES series is pretty popular though, especially on the consoles, thanks to Skyrim so it should do alright.
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On June 13 2013 10:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 10:21 DODswe4 wrote:On June 13 2013 10:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 13 2013 08:19 semantics wrote:
NA and EU is where the money is at anyways for consoles, Nintendo completely dominates the handheld market but guess what there isn't much profit in it. Sony just hemorrhages money on the psp and even if they held more of the market it wouldn't be worth it. No reason to focus on Asia because outside of japan there isn't much money in asia for consoles and japan really is dominated by nintendo and sony. Uh...PSP sales are close to 80 million, which is about equal to the XBox360. Did you mean the Vita? the PSP lost the handheld war horribly. DS sold 150 millions according to wikipedia. Not to mention all the games. Considering how badly the 360 did in Asia I can understand the reason that microsoft not wanting to release the Xbone there just yet What does the "handheld war" have to do with anything? The PSP did not "hemorrhage money", and saying it wasn't worth it is a completely joke. Sony sells the psp like it does the vita at a loss like a console they make money back up though royalties off games and 1st party accessories. Nintendo makes money on every nintendo DS sale and although sony makes up around 20% of the handheld devices sold their game sales numbers only make up around 11% of total games sold in handheld category. The handheld market doesn't make sony any money. They spend a ton o money on campings to try to get a foothold into that market they which they have in hardware but not in game sales which would be fine if sony made any money off their hardware which even at the best of psp versions was they sold it at cost.
The parallel is that just because you can jump into a market doesn't mean you should as a business decision. So investing more into the markets which are more profitable NA/EU and putting asia on back-burner is an okay move.
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On June 13 2013 15:25 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 15:09 takingbackoj wrote:
I don't mean to derail the discussion but I have a question for those that don't (for some odd reason) have a vendetta against PS4 or Xbox One (those who dont use the terms Xbone, Xboxdone, or POS4).
Im not a fan of modern MMO's like WoW or its clones but I loved UO. After hearing that Elder Scrolls Online will be released on both Consoles, what do you guys think the chances are that it will have a large user base on either? They have already stated that they will have 3 different server sets for Xbox/PS/PC+Mac. I might give it a try and it would be better on PC due to the mouse and keyboard. But do you think there is any real chance that it will catch on with PS or Xbox users? Or would it most likely be empty servers on consoles? It is pretty hard to say really. The entire MMO market is extremely difficult to judge actually. Odds are against there ever being actual empty servers though, regardless of which version you play. The only time the world will feel empty is if they fail on the server end AND fail on selling the game. TES series is pretty popular though, especially on the consoles, thanks to Skyrim so it should do alright.
Thats true, also with their dynamic server plan, where there is no set server for your character, I guess there shouldn't be empty server issues. I might get it for console if I hear good reviews. Im not sure why, because I have a capable PC, but for some reason I want to try it out on console. Control wise it might not be too bad since they have limited the amount of abilities available at one time for EOS so you wont really need a bunch of hotkeys anyway.
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On June 13 2013 15:28 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 10:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 13 2013 10:21 DODswe4 wrote:On June 13 2013 10:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 13 2013 08:19 semantics wrote:
NA and EU is where the money is at anyways for consoles, Nintendo completely dominates the handheld market but guess what there isn't much profit in it. Sony just hemorrhages money on the psp and even if they held more of the market it wouldn't be worth it. No reason to focus on Asia because outside of japan there isn't much money in asia for consoles and japan really is dominated by nintendo and sony. Uh...PSP sales are close to 80 million, which is about equal to the XBox360. Did you mean the Vita? the PSP lost the handheld war horribly. DS sold 150 millions according to wikipedia. Not to mention all the games. Considering how badly the 360 did in Asia I can understand the reason that microsoft not wanting to release the Xbone there just yet What does the "handheld war" have to do with anything? The PSP did not "hemorrhage money", and saying it wasn't worth it is a completely joke. Sony sells the psp like it does the vita at a loss like a console they make money back up though royalties off games and 1st party accessories. Nintendo makes money on every nintendo DS sale and although sony makes up around 20% of the handheld devices sold their game sales numbers only make up around 11% of total games sold in handheld category. The handheld market doesn't make sony any money. They spend a ton o money on campings to try to get a foothold into that market they which they have in hardware but not in game sales which would be fine if sony made any money off their hardware which even at the best of psp versions was they sold it at cost. The parallel is that just because you can jump into a market doesn't mean you should as a business decision. So investing more into the markets which are more profitable NA/EU and putting asia on back-burner is an okay move.
According to Sony (and their annual finance reports), the PSP was profitable from year 1. I'd really like to know where you're getting your numbers from.
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There is no guarantee that Microsoft will not back off from their DRM claim. At this point, there is a high possibility that MS will back off some of it DRM demand.
The reason for doing so is for the last few days after Sony lead the trend to give customers freedom as they used to have since the dawn of gaming on consoles. Big Publishers are now really have to think hard before they make any decision at all, EA will most likely won't make DRM a permanent things(they've already eliminate their "online pass" which means EA is ok with you resell your used games), the only big publisher out there that could enforce strict DRM is Ubisoft(they did it already for the PC, just google it and you will know how fuked up it was) but I doubt even Ubisoft dare to do it now since the response from gamers are quite clear in the last few days.
Even with DRM put aside, the XboxOne still have many problems such as weaker hardware, higher prices. People said that XboxOne has more online features than PS4, I don't think so. What is it XboxOne has and PS4 don't? Sony just don't want to enforce it to the users. What ever XboxOne can do online PS4 can do it as well.
I don't know why MS put so much hope into Kinect, if Nintendo didn't have Wii maybe this whole motion control would never even touch the gaming industry. I thought Kinect and Playstation Eyes are just their so Sony and Microsoft can say they have something similar with Nintendo.
I doubt motion related games will ever be big, well, its already be proven, motion related games may be fun for like the first few days(just like Nintendo Wii U stuff) and thats about it.
From the Xbox reveal back in May, I see nothing Kinect did to the TV that a normal remote control didn't already do. Stuff like switching between games and TV...well that one button away on the remote -_-.
About game prices across PS4 and XboxOne, the only way to find out is to wait for them to get announced but I doubt games on XboxOne will be cheaper than on PS4.
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Did you guys hear what the developers of Contrast said? The game will be available for all platforms including the 360 except for the Xbox One and when asked specifically "Will you support the Xbox One?" they replied "We're independent." When developers are barely veiling their hate for your console you know you've done something wrong.
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On June 13 2013 17:01 Foblos wrote:
Did you guys hear what the developers of Contrast said? The game will be available for all platforms including the 360 except for the Xbox One and when asked specifically "Will you support the Xbox One?" they replied "We're independent." When developers are barely veiling their hate for your console you know you've done something wrong.
What is contrast? And what does their comment have to do with barely veiled hate? If they wanted to boycott MS then they wouldn't have put the game on a 360. And again, what is Contrast?
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On June 13 2013 17:34 takingbackoj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 17:01 Foblos wrote:
Did you guys hear what the developers of Contrast said? The game will be available for all platforms including the 360 except for the Xbox One and when asked specifically "Will you support the Xbox One?" they replied "We're independent." When developers are barely veiling their hate for your console you know you've done something wrong. What is contrast? And what does their comment have to do with barely veiled hate? If they wanted to boycott MS then they wouldn't have put the game on a 360. And again, what is Contrast?
Contrast is a game in development by an indie game studio. I'll let you google to find out the details and gameplay and whatnot. When they refused to support the One, even though they are supporting every other major platform they are saying that independant developers and the One do not go together. It wasn't a boycot of Micro$oft, it was a boycot of the One. They will be available on the 360 and the PC, just not the DRM console of the future and they used terminology that expresses their boycott. Google the interview. It was with Tara Long.
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lol at go back to 360 statement. ms is self destructing
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On June 13 2013 17:47 Foblos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 17:34 takingbackoj wrote:On June 13 2013 17:01 Foblos wrote:
Did you guys hear what the developers of Contrast said? The game will be available for all platforms including the 360 except for the Xbox One and when asked specifically "Will you support the Xbox One?" they replied "We're independent." When developers are barely veiling their hate for your console you know you've done something wrong. What is contrast? And what does their comment have to do with barely veiled hate? If they wanted to boycott MS then they wouldn't have put the game on a 360. And again, what is Contrast? Contrast is a game in development by an indie game studio. I'll let you google to find out the details and gameplay and whatnot. When they refused to support the One, even though they are supporting every other major platform they are saying that independant developers and the One do not go together. It wasn't a boycot of Micro$oft, it was a boycot of the One. They will be available on the 360 and the PC, just not the DRM console of the future and they used terminology that expresses their boycott. Google the interview. It was with Terra Long.
All consoles have and support DRM lol DRM started with nintendo and the NES...
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On June 13 2013 17:55 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 17:47 Foblos wrote:On June 13 2013 17:34 takingbackoj wrote:On June 13 2013 17:01 Foblos wrote:
Did you guys hear what the developers of Contrast said? The game will be available for all platforms including the 360 except for the Xbox One and when asked specifically "Will you support the Xbox One?" they replied "We're independent." When developers are barely veiling their hate for your console you know you've done something wrong. What is contrast? And what does their comment have to do with barely veiled hate? If they wanted to boycott MS then they wouldn't have put the game on a 360. And again, what is Contrast? Contrast is a game in development by an indie game studio. I'll let you google to find out the details and gameplay and whatnot. When they refused to support the One, even though they are supporting every other major platform they are saying that independant developers and the One do not go together. It wasn't a boycot of Micro$oft, it was a boycot of the One. They will be available on the 360 and the PC, just not the DRM console of the future and they used terminology that expresses their boycott. Google the interview. It was with Terra Long. All consoles have and support DRM lol DRM started with nintendo and the NES...
Not all consoles have required a check in every 24 hours, refused the resale of games (or the purchase of used games) or required a camera that can watch you in the dark and read your heart beat by your facial flushing. It's why I referred to it as the DRM console of the future.
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On June 13 2013 17:57 Foblos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 17:55 semantics wrote:On June 13 2013 17:47 Foblos wrote:On June 13 2013 17:34 takingbackoj wrote:On June 13 2013 17:01 Foblos wrote:
Did you guys hear what the developers of Contrast said? The game will be available for all platforms including the 360 except for the Xbox One and when asked specifically "Will you support the Xbox One?" they replied "We're independent." When developers are barely veiling their hate for your console you know you've done something wrong. What is contrast? And what does their comment have to do with barely veiled hate? If they wanted to boycott MS then they wouldn't have put the game on a 360. And again, what is Contrast? Contrast is a game in development by an indie game studio. I'll let you google to find out the details and gameplay and whatnot. When they refused to support the One, even though they are supporting every other major platform they are saying that independant developers and the One do not go together. It wasn't a boycot of Micro$oft, it was a boycot of the One. They will be available on the 360 and the PC, just not the DRM console of the future and they used terminology that expresses their boycott. Google the interview. It was with Terra Long. All consoles have and support DRM lol DRM started with nintendo and the NES... Not all consoles have required a check in every 24 hours, refused the resale of games (or the purchase of used games) or required a camera that can watch you in the dark and read your heart beat by your facial flushing. It's why I referred to it as the DRM console of the future.
Play your PC games without Internet see how many new games you can play. Hell what are the 2 things on this site SC2 and Dota2 play those without having to check into their servers. What are some of the best selling games on the 360, Halo, Call of Duty, Gears of war. Games some people played without ever touching single player.
Resale of games is controlled by the people producing the game, xboxone is simply a platform for if they so chose they can prevent resale of the game. You're blaming microsoft for enabling developers but in the end it will be the developers doing the hammering.
And the Kinect has nothing to do with DRM, also isn't the kinect being able to work in low light a good thing why would you want it to be inept? Outside of the tinfoil hat community the point you want to make is that you want to make sure the kinect can be turned off separately.
Just spouting off things you hate isn't a form of argument.
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On June 13 2013 18:05 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 17:57 Foblos wrote:On June 13 2013 17:55 semantics wrote:On June 13 2013 17:47 Foblos wrote:On June 13 2013 17:34 takingbackoj wrote:On June 13 2013 17:01 Foblos wrote:
Did you guys hear what the developers of Contrast said? The game will be available for all platforms including the 360 except for the Xbox One and when asked specifically "Will you support the Xbox One?" they replied "We're independent." When developers are barely veiling their hate for your console you know you've done something wrong. What is contrast? And what does their comment have to do with barely veiled hate? If they wanted to boycott MS then they wouldn't have put the game on a 360. And again, what is Contrast? Contrast is a game in development by an indie game studio. I'll let you google to find out the details and gameplay and whatnot. When they refused to support the One, even though they are supporting every other major platform they are saying that independant developers and the One do not go together. It wasn't a boycot of Micro$oft, it was a boycot of the One. They will be available on the 360 and the PC, just not the DRM console of the future and they used terminology that expresses their boycott. Google the interview. It was with Terra Long. All consoles have and support DRM lol DRM started with nintendo and the NES... Not all consoles have required a check in every 24 hours, refused the resale of games (or the purchase of used games) or required a camera that can watch you in the dark and read your heart beat by your facial flushing. It's why I referred to it as the DRM console of the future. Play your PC games without Internet see how many new games you can play. Hell what are the 2 things on this site SC2 and Dota2 play those without having to check into their servers. Resale of games is controlled by the people producing the game, xboxone is simply a platform for if they so chose they can prevent resale of the game. You're blaming microsoft for enabling developers but in the end it will be the developers doing the hammering. And the Kinect has nothing to do with DRM, also isn't the kinect being able to work in low light a good thing why would you want it to be inept? Outside of the tinfoil hat community the point you want to make is that you want to make sure the kinect can be turned off separately. Just spouting off things you hate isn't a form of argument.
The vast majority of the games I play on my computer I play offline. Same with my playstation 3 and my 360. Starcraft 2 is one game in a vast minority of games I play that requires itself to be online, and I don't play DotA so that is completely irrelevant. As for the notion of preventing resale, companies already had the power to prevent it or to at least get a cut. Remember EA? The fact that the console does not allow used games without a fee, and requires registration of a game via online within 24 hours or it will stop working until registration is made isn't "the developers doing the hammering," it is the console.
Since we don't know exactly how Kinect will be used, although we do know everything I mentioned in my last post as well as the fact that it can tell if you're interested in whatever you're doing, I suppose you're right in that I'll be strained in pulling that in as DRM, but there is every likelyhood that Micro$oft will force more commercials to those that don't pay attention and given the recent events with the NSA I don't think it is very kind of you to call people who are concerned about their privacy by being forced to install something they may not want as "tin foil community" members. The point with the Kinect, aside from any sorts of DRM concerns is that I don't want it, many people don't want it, and yet not only is it being pushed onto us as a form of packaging but it's being shoved down our throats in the manner that it MUST be plugged in at all times for the console to work. Regardless of the merits of DRM or not, I find it absolutely hilarious and well marked that indie developers are removing their support from the console just like Micro$oft has removed their support from anyone not willing to bend over and take it exactly as they are told.
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On June 13 2013 17:55 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 17:47 Foblos wrote:On June 13 2013 17:34 takingbackoj wrote:On June 13 2013 17:01 Foblos wrote:
Did you guys hear what the developers of Contrast said? The game will be available for all platforms including the 360 except for the Xbox One and when asked specifically "Will you support the Xbox One?" they replied "We're independent." When developers are barely veiling their hate for your console you know you've done something wrong. What is contrast? And what does their comment have to do with barely veiled hate? If they wanted to boycott MS then they wouldn't have put the game on a 360. And again, what is Contrast? Contrast is a game in development by an indie game studio. I'll let you google to find out the details and gameplay and whatnot. When they refused to support the One, even though they are supporting every other major platform they are saying that independant developers and the One do not go together. It wasn't a boycot of Micro$oft, it was a boycot of the One. They will be available on the 360 and the PC, just not the DRM console of the future and they used terminology that expresses their boycott. Google the interview. It was with Terra Long. All consoles have and support DRM lol DRM started with nintendo and the NES...
Oh the nes has drm? I wasn't aware. So all these games I've been collecting from garage sales and things won't work? Because that doesn't seem to be the case. However if I pick up an xbox one game from a garage sale it won't work. That does seem to be the case. No, consoles don't support DRM otherwise they'd make it mandatory. No the NES, nor any other console to date had DRM. Publishers had "season pass" DRM that sony is actually saying they're not allowed to do.
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On June 13 2013 18:40 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 17:55 semantics wrote:On June 13 2013 17:47 Foblos wrote:On June 13 2013 17:34 takingbackoj wrote:On June 13 2013 17:01 Foblos wrote:
Did you guys hear what the developers of Contrast said? The game will be available for all platforms including the 360 except for the Xbox One and when asked specifically "Will you support the Xbox One?" they replied "We're independent." When developers are barely veiling their hate for your console you know you've done something wrong. What is contrast? And what does their comment have to do with barely veiled hate? If they wanted to boycott MS then they wouldn't have put the game on a 360. And again, what is Contrast? Contrast is a game in development by an indie game studio. I'll let you google to find out the details and gameplay and whatnot. When they refused to support the One, even though they are supporting every other major platform they are saying that independant developers and the One do not go together. It wasn't a boycot of Micro$oft, it was a boycot of the One. They will be available on the 360 and the PC, just not the DRM console of the future and they used terminology that expresses their boycott. Google the interview. It was with Terra Long. All consoles have and support DRM lol DRM started with nintendo and the NES... Oh the nes has drm? I wasn't aware. So all these games I've been collecting from garage sales and things won't work? Because that doesn't seem to be the case. However if I pick up an xbox one game from a garage sale it won't work. That does seem to be the case. No, consoles don't support DRM otherwise they'd make it mandatory. No the NES, nor any other console to date had DRM. Publishers had "season pass" DRM that sony is actually saying they're not allowed to do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10NES
All modern consoles have anti piracy chips in them/Anti non-royalty paying games. Thus DRM.
Along with chips for region lockout. Again DRM btw both ps3 and xbox360 have region lock but it's rarely used because it's left to the developers to use it it's not a must use. Although region lock still occurs to some extent with multiplayer and DLC which is probably just confects with laws in some area's and digital purchase.
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EPT
