SaetZero one thing that stands out to me right away is the amount of high cost ice in your NBN deck. Have you had trouble rezzing that stuff? 3 tollbooth, 1 archer, 2 flare, 2 wall of thorns, 1 ichi even thats pretty expensive ice there. Do you ever find yourself just getting run over early game? I know you said you don't like 3 point agendas, but priority req. might be good in here anyways to help get up a strong server right away and support these heavy costing ice, allowing you to get two 2 pointers in ftw afterwards. I do like me some red herrings, it's good on R&D or on a strong remote.
If you played Magic before you can sometimes think of the cost of your ice on a curve, and it's really hard to make a high curve work imo without help like oversight AI or tons of transaction assets.
Your Kate is interesting, I personally don't like Underworld Contacts builds but if it works for you that's good. Do you generally find yourself happier with Kati Jones than Magnum Opus for economy? I like where you went with special order in Kate, I think Kate is strong with the new set as well here is a list I've been testing, as you can see we both went in different directions :D.
Event (27) 3 Diesel 3 Easy Mark 3 Infiltration 3 Modded 1 Notoriety 3 Quality Time 2 Special Order 1 Stimhack 3 Sure Gamble 3 Test Run 2 The Maker's Eye
ideally i have a melange or a pad, and i play close to the chest until i get some bank going to get a real server running. all i need really is a ETR ice on my R+D or hand (based on how many agendas i have in hand) and I can wait a little
early game board (reasonable) would be like
cheap ETR ice on a pad campaign, pricey ETR ice on melange, 2 cheap ETR ices on my hand, 1-2 pricey ETR ices on my R+D. then you wait for 2 pricey ETR ice and that will make up your agenda remote.
so something for example could be like,
static protecting pad, tollboth protecting melange, ichi into eli protecting my hand, wall of thorns into flare protecting my R+D. then wait for 2 real ice to make an agenda server.
but yes, money is rarely an issue. i just need to have an ETR ice on my hand turn 1, so i dont get account siphoned. that's all really.
as for the focus of no 3 point agendas, thats a key thing i wont lose.
no 3 point agendas means several things:
1- with exception on the single corporate war, all my agendas are 3 or less to score. 2- this means i can play agendas and never advance them, then just sac the full turn to score it right away in 1 go. 3- this means i can bluff agendas with upgrades/pads/melanges since i not running trap assets. 4- this also means that with 1 of these (astroscript token, san san, biotic labor) everything but corp war can be scored from my hand 5- so you need to respect this style and run servers blind. i dont need to give you hints on where agendas might be. and you cant rig up forever, as falling behind on points vs this deck is VERY hard to recover from.
if i had a 3 point, i could win in 3 turns sure
but with only 2s and 1s, and 90% of them being potential out of hand scores, i only need to get to 4 (or even 2 depending on board position) points for you to start making panic runs.
because if i get to 5-6 points, and im just waiting to draw my agenda to start it out of hand, you already lost. and that will happen so much faster than you think it will.
astro into astro is a nightmare. astro, into second astro (and you keep both counters), makes beale a place into 3 pointer next turn, no prior advance ment. astro+astro (keep both tokens) + sansan/bio labor = out of hand 3 point beale.
im trading your hint at knowing what servers are agendas before i score them for the fact i need to score 4 usually to win. and my beale can be worth 3 to me. you get no 3s from me. you need notoriety to make a 3 agenda win vs my deck.
lots of little decisions made me cut all the 3 pointers.
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im testing kati, since crypsis focused needs clicks, and 1 kati for 1 click and passive contacts money is fien for money, while you put cheap pressure on while kati builds. or you get extra clicks to install non-crypsis breakers/cresentus. its working well, but theres some tweaks i need since i played a lot last night.
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your deck:
i hate easy mark. its influence you dont need to spend for a 1 money gain (if you have opus installed which you will). you also dont need spec order since you have test run. and with 3 disel and 3 qual time, you WILL get a test run or opus early. most likely both.
i would change your influence personally.
3 easy and 2 spec order is 7 influ i think? cut the marks and 1 spec order and you can 1 more stimhack+2 emergency shutdowns+ 1 makers eye
i hate easy mark. its influence you dont need to spend for a 1 money gain (if you have opus installed which you will). you also dont need spec order since you have test run. and with 3 disel and 3 qual time, you WILL get a test run or opus early. most likely both.
i would change your influence personally.
3 easy and 2 spec order is 7 influ i think? cut the marks and 1 spec order and you can 1 more stimhack+2 emergency shutdowns+ 1 makers eye
you could also try to get medium, hq interface, nerve agent, surge (if you want any of these), vamp, e3 implants.... all sorts of stuff
but the 3 marks and (1 or both) spec orders are not needed. you could do better with the influence imo.
think about it
If the $ works for you then it works for you, lately people have been keeping my economy assets like melange in check so I try not to rely entirely on them.
I have already cut the easy marks(they simply don't synergize with the opus and other cards that much) but I only added 1 stimhack(it's good vs unprepared players who think you don't have it, but man does it suck compared to when you play it with a workshop out, it's just not an economy card in Kate like it is in CT and Noise, saving you $ is always good though, and can win the game outright) and not sure about the other cards, none of the things you listed interest me that much except maybe hq interface, but I'm already heavy on the hardware.
I have splashed account siphon before and it's really not worth the 4 influence although it's an excellent card, at that point I should just be playing Andromeda splashing the shaper cards . I don't want to be a notoriety deck I don't think that card is that good in here since you need your turn to work out right and not discard it from trap damage, it's not awful by any means but I am just using it as 1 of to give me some extra tools/options. '
I am considering Tinkering but it really needs to make runs way cheaper or protect your from something scary for it to be worth the deck space/click.
Biotic labour seems entirely superflous. it's a 1 in 49 draw chance of a card you need 7 creds to play with to be anything but a hand clogger, and it's stopping you putting in say another eli and 3 vipers or 3 chums. What I'd actually do though is something like this
So what that gives you is a more NBN style mix of good ice. Eli is great, viper is simply a better choice than enigma if you can afford it, you have plenty of 1pointer agendas to make splashing another archer worth it. I put in data ravens to replace the WoS since they pretty much do the same job, and if not you have enough sacrificial agendas to bait people into running through and taking a power counter for use at your leisure. going through a data raven will *always* cost a runner 2 and an action to clear the tag, WOS will rarely do better than that and considering a runner will generally be paying another 3-5 to break the data raven routine, totally worth the 1 extra cost.
Ichi is great, but you want more of them than 1. 1 ichi is pretty easy to deal with for a good runner who'll always be running it on their first click to rez it and then dealing with it with a parasite, shutdown, femme etc. if you can get 2 in play they start being worth their splash. You could totally drop the archer for 2 ichis, but I think archer just synergises way better with your deck contents.
Foxfire is ok, but you don't need it. With the DRs in there you have plenty of tag pressure so you can just pop resources naturally. If you really want resource pressure add more sea sources, more versatile since you can use those to pop workshops, pawnshops etc.
Edit: Sorry, that was just super cool to see that lol. Netrunner is a super fun game to play, I really like how it's an LCG as opposed to a CCG, but I still don't like how you'd need to get multiple starter boxes/expansions if you want 3 copies of a card.
Edit: Sorry, that was just super cool to see that lol. Netrunner is a super fun game to play, I really like how it's an LCG as opposed to a CCG, but I still don't like how you'd need to get multiple starter boxes/expansions if you want 3 copies of a card.
That's cool thats your brother lol.
I agree the core set is annoying but none of the expansions are like that they all have 3x of each card even of cards you don't need 3 of like identities, just clearing that up .
Speaking of foxfire, people are really getting rid of resources in their runner decks since the new expansion, at least on octgn.
I've been testing Andro/WS on OCTGN with Mr.Li. Originally this seemed like a good idea, but the more I play it the more I don't like it, it feels way too janky. I also have a new CT and Anarch deck in the works ill post that when I finish and test it.
Basically the idea was to throw everything on WS with the 9 card opener (I'm almost guaranteed to get it with mulligan). Then only run HQ while keeping Corp money low with Siphon/Forged/Shutdown/Crescentus spam using darwin and femmes while building up my HQ interfaces with workshop, and using the built up credits from Pheremones to install whatever I needed (off workshop).
Let me know what you think, any ideas/fixes welcome.
I've been testing some new stuff too. I think eli represents a tipping point for the corp, one that was going to happen eventually. Currently there's just not enough good splashable ice, nor enough solid ETR or grindy ice to make some decks viable.
So I've been messing around tweaking a couple of decks. The first is original ID jinteki tower. The combination of fetal and Hosoukai is a big tipping point for them as well. The original ID is kind of bad in and of itself, but combined with hosoukai and fetal it's amazing. Guaranteed 4 net damage if they want to take an agenda. Combine with some chums, neurals etc and you have a pretty scary proposition. Even early game you can threaten a flatline if you can force them to run through a katana to hit an agenda with a hosoukai under it.
The other thing I've been considering is more or less pure barrier weyland with hadrians, ice wall, wall of static and splashing eli, wall of thorns, heimdalls, etc. I've noticed that people rarely play a heavy load of barrier breakers and when they do it's generally crypsis or corroder, almost never battering ram. So there's little risk in stacking barriers and that gives you some really reliable scoring options and safe melange econ.
So hard to comment since I have no experience with pheromones, darwin or mr. li. I think stimhack is amazing with workshop and is what makes workshop shine but you don't have influence room unless you cut 2-3 darwin from your deck or 1 workshop.
It's miles different from any Andromeda deck I have played tbh can't say much else. Your way heavier on resources and way lighter on events than I am.
One thing that sticks out is no inside jobs, and no way too access extra cards on R&D, you might be light on pressure especially since you need time for your darwin to build up. I really feel like inside job is amazing, but maybe just mention it casually to your opponent while playing(something like hey, I drew 9 cards starting but no inside job, what gives), since the pressure of inside job is almost as good as having it. (basically forcing them to have extra ice on servers they might not want it)
So hard to comment since I have no experience with pheromones, darwin or mr. li. I think stimhack is amazing with workshop and is what makes workshop shine but you don't have influence room unless you cut 2-3 darwin from your deck or 1 workshop.
It's miles different from any Andromeda deck I have played tbh can't say much else. Your way heavier on resources and way lighter on events than I am.
One thing that sticks out is no inside jobs, and no way too access extra cards on R&D, you might be light on pressure especially since you need time for your darwin to build up. I really feel like inside job is amazing, but maybe just mention it casually to your opponent while playing(something like hey, I drew 9 cards starting but no inside job, what gives), since the pressure of inside job is almost as good as having it. (basically forcing them to have extra ice on servers they might not want it)
Exactly, I don't really need inside job when I can bust out femmes in no time with my ws + econ. The fear of the event card being there is enough. So don't really need stimhack as I can afford everything anyway. I always play econ heavy, its just something that suits me much better, especially when I have vamp, although for this setup maybe not so.
You are right on the pressure, which is what I didn't like about it. When corp just goes full econ with lots of ice instead of FA I really struggle.
another random thought, the alt HB id is looking more interesting now. The meta is developing a lot and that +1 strength is super good on quite a few pieces of ice. Eli and heimdall of course, just makes them more annoying. But it gets viktor out of yog range, so it makes him kind of viable. It doesn't do a lot for ichi, but it makes sherlock a lot more playable going from 5-6.
Probably worth waiting for creation and control though
Just built a new CT Deck, won my first 2 games out of 2 so far on OCTGN.
Basically I testrun femmes and steal agendas when they try and FA, while building up a steady supply of dataleak reversals and all-nighters. I also have the opportunity to do stimhack runs and see a few cards off R&D in midgame using R&D interface.
Then once I've built up I use vamp and blow all my all nighters in one hit and keep using data leak reversal as much as possible until they are removed. At max capacity this should mill a minimum 14 cards if corp spends every turn killing dataleak reversal. If he doesn't its an additional 4 cards per turn. Even the first run is much more than a noise deck can do, best of all, unlike Noise, it doesn't cost me anything.
If he creates a tower of pain in front of archives, I can just keep milling till Corp loses his entire deck and dies, or just vamp him again so he can't rez his ice and run archives. By this point I don't really care that I'm tagged simply because Workshop isn't that useful at this point, and my economy comes from Mopus.
However I'm saddened I still have yet to unleash the dataleak pain train to see if its any good because I keep winning before then.
On May 30 2013 22:57 Thereisnosaurus wrote: another random thought, the alt HB id is looking more interesting now. The meta is developing a lot and that +1 strength is super good on quite a few pieces of ice. Eli and heimdall of course, just makes them more annoying. But it gets viktor out of yog range, so it makes him kind of viable. It doesn't do a lot for ichi, but it makes sherlock a lot more playable going from 5-6.
Probably worth waiting for creation and control though
You can probably tinker around with HB:ST now if you want. There are a number of low to mid cost bioriods to play with. Viktor benefits the most obviously. Heimdall is pretty expensive with HB:ETF's passive. But Sherlock, Ichi, Eli give you a good spread on Ice.
Too bad Rototurret isn't a bioroid though. Wouldn't have mind to make that Ninja pay and extra 3 just to break through.
On May 30 2013 23:15 sluggaslamoo wrote: Just built a new CT Deck, won my first 2 games out of 2 so far on OCTGN.
Basically I testrun femmes and steal agendas when they try and FA, while building up a steady supply of dataleak reversals and all-nighters. I also have the opportunity to do stimhack runs and see a few cards off R&D in midgame using R&D interface.
Then once I've built up I use vamp and blow all my all nighters in one hit and keep using data leak reversal as much as possible until they are removed. At max capacity this should mill a minimum 14 cards if corp spends every turn killing dataleak reversal. If he doesn't its an additional 4 cards per turn. Even the first run is much more than a noise deck can do, best of all, unlike Noise, it doesn't cost me anything.
If he creates a tower of pain in front of archives, I can just keep milling till Corp loses his entire deck and dies, or just vamp him again so he can't rez his ice and run archives. By this point I don't really care that I'm tagged simply because Workshop isn't that useful at this point, and my economy comes from Mopus.
However I'm saddened I still have yet to unleash the dataleak pain train to see if its any good because I keep winning before then.
Event (12) 3x Diesel 2x Quality Time 2x Stimhack ●● 3x Test Run 2x Vamp ●●●●
Hardware (8) 3x R&D Interface 3x The Personal Touch 2x The Toolbox
Program (11) 2x Corroder ●●●● 2x Deep Thought 2x Femme Fatale ●● 2x Gordian Blade 3x Magnum Opus
Resource (9) 3x All Nighter 3x Data Leak Reversal ●●● 3x Personal Workshop
amagad Workshop in Shaper, you don't say~ Overall, it looks really solid. Only thing I can see I could even possible pick at is the Deep Thoughts. Could run Indexing or Modded instead.
On May 30 2013 12:30 Thereisnosaurus wrote: Biotic labour seems entirely superflous. it's a 1 in 49 draw chance of a card you need 7 creds to play with to be anything but a hand clogger, and it's stopping you putting in say another eli and 3 vipers or 3 chums. What I'd actually do though is something like this
So what that gives you is a more NBN style mix of good ice. Eli is great, viper is simply a better choice than enigma if you can afford it, you have plenty of 1pointer agendas to make splashing another archer worth it. I put in data ravens to replace the WoS since they pretty much do the same job, and if not you have enough sacrificial agendas to bait people into running through and taking a power counter for use at your leisure. going through a data raven will *always* cost a runner 2 and an action to clear the tag, WOS will rarely do better than that and considering a runner will generally be paying another 3-5 to break the data raven routine, totally worth the 1 extra cost.
Ichi is great, but you want more of them than 1. 1 ichi is pretty easy to deal with for a good runner who'll always be running it on their first click to rez it and then dealing with it with a parasite, shutdown, femme etc. if you can get 2 in play they start being worth their splash. You could totally drop the archer for 2 ichis, but I think archer just synergises way better with your deck contents.
Foxfire is ok, but you don't need it. With the DRs in there you have plenty of tag pressure so you can just pop resources naturally. If you really want resource pressure add more sea sources, more versatile since you can use those to pop workshops, pawnshops etc.
labor is a style choice, and i used to run two. its just a 'its late game and i cant put this agenda on the board and keep it safe for 1 turn vs kate' or similar. if core had 2 san sans, i might not run it, but it doesnt, so its a flexible san san for 2 cheaper, but only 1 time.
data raven without a tag punish thats harder than closed account isnt scary. my friends learned they can just run into it over and over, it didnt matter since i dont run psycho or scorched. so its really not the same, but i get what you mean there. just doesnt work vs people you people regularly that know your set of tag punishes.
not using the id with the trace money, so viper is hardly worth it. maybe if it was neutral. but im not using tmi either, which is a 'get it alive one time' trace for the same reason. in practice its just not worth the effort.
i get what your saying, but its not my style so i dont really agree with it at all. thanks for the input though.
truth be told, i should be playing HB. if i wasnt in love with astroscript, i would be. my deck really is just a poor mans HB with a splash of yellow paint of it. lol.
On May 30 2013 23:15 sluggaslamoo wrote: Just built a new CT Deck, won my first 2 games out of 2 so far on OCTGN.
Basically I testrun femmes and steal agendas when they try and FA, while building up a steady supply of dataleak reversals and all-nighters. I also have the opportunity to do stimhack runs and see a few cards off R&D in midgame using R&D interface.
Then once I've built up I use vamp and blow all my all nighters in one hit and keep using data leak reversal as much as possible until they are removed. At max capacity this should mill a minimum 14 cards if corp spends every turn killing dataleak reversal. If he doesn't its an additional 4 cards per turn. Even the first run is much more than a noise deck can do, best of all, unlike Noise, it doesn't cost me anything.
If he creates a tower of pain in front of archives, I can just keep milling till Corp loses his entire deck and dies, or just vamp him again so he can't rez his ice and run archives. By this point I don't really care that I'm tagged simply because Workshop isn't that useful at this point, and my economy comes from Mopus.
However I'm saddened I still have yet to unleash the dataleak pain train to see if its any good because I keep winning before then.
Event (12) 3x Diesel 2x Quality Time 2x Stimhack ●● 3x Test Run 2x Vamp ●●●●
Hardware (8) 3x R&D Interface 3x The Personal Touch 2x The Toolbox
Program (11) 2x Corroder ●●●● 2x Deep Thought 2x Femme Fatale ●● 2x Gordian Blade 3x Magnum Opus
Resource (9) 3x All Nighter 3x Data Leak Reversal ●●● 3x Personal Workshop
amagad Workshop in Shaper, you don't say~ Overall, it looks really solid. Only thing I can see I could even possible pick at is the Deep Thoughts. Could run Indexing or Modded instead.
Yep, I'm actually thinking of removing deep thought also because its kinda what prompted me to put toolbox in there, which I guess isn't too bad but I just can't see it being that useful under a time constraint.
I'm thinking of ways that could help achieve the main goal of this deck. Ill probably swap deep thought for plascrete carapace because every Weyland deck runs scorched. And maybe swap toolboxes public sympathy or infiltration or even indexing like you suggested.
Plascrete is definitely a good idea since you actually welcome tags, it's the consequences of what Corp can do that you have to watch out for.
I'd also consider getting 3 Vamps and dropping a Corroder. Your deck is about denial and milling. With 3 Test Runs, you can grab that lone Corroder anyways. You need more opportunities to keep Corp poor and you don't have Deja Vu like hardcore denial runners splash..
Haha just won a game against NBN where he managed to get up 30 creds from 5 drip feed cards, then used midseason replacements to put 24 tags on me. So I just used dataleak until he ran out of cards and won. Also just stole every agenda he put down bypassing his dataraven with femme and using infiltration to check for traps prior to that.
EPT
. I don't want to be a notoriety deck I don't think that card is that good in here since you need your turn to work out right and not discard it from trap damage, it's not awful by any means but I am just using it as 1 of to give me some extra tools/options. '
