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A crib sheet, for those attempting to learn NetRunner over OCTGN. |
I find playing AGAINST TnB(Weyland or OOF NBN and Jinteki splashing Scorched Earth) fun actually there are some tense decision points. They have multiple routes to victory and make you care about your tags, which sometimes you can just ignore otherwise. I don't think they are that mindless to play either, maybe sometimes? If you think about making them run into tags as run into traps, you can have some fun with it. Of course the Breaking News or Posted Bounty sitting out in to score + SE + SE is going to kill them or you, but you can sometimes predict that and steal the agenda point or have to force your opponent in to running/spending resources elsewhere.
I don't find FA too be TOO scary as a runner, I can usually take the match if the corp tries to play a slow game putting together Biotic Labors or Trick of Lights + 2 point agendas, but I do think it's one of the safer ways to play a tournament match, due to prestige scoring.
I personally don't find the game stale or boring right now, but that's just me. It would be annoying if everyone ran the same exact deck but that's just not true this is the meta breakdown for the tournament I was in,
Corp:
* 6x HB1:EtF(One of these was me, I think 2 of these were FA varients, and 1 was a big ice varient)
* 4x Weyland1:BaBW (2 were TNB)
* 5x NBN1:MN
* 1x Jinteki1: PE
* 1x Jinteki2:RP
Runner:
* 5x Noise(1 of these were me, almost all of them were Workshop Noise decks)
* 3x Gabriel Santiago
* 3x Andromeda
* 1x Kate "Mac" McCaffrey
* 5x Chaos Theory
To be fair apparently the last tournament had worse breakdown according to this guys tournament report(all HB basically), but this was my first tournament.(http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/979931/pdx-netrunner-tournament-2-electric-boogaloo-repor) Maybe in a few months I'll be bored with the meta as well, but they have pretty frequent releases and I don't play as much as I would play something like Magic Online(where I play everyday) I play about once or twice a week with Netrunner and don't get all that many games in.
If your meta/playgroup stagnates that really sucks though, personally I like to mess around with a different deck all the time, so I'm taking a Whizzard (probably not going to work out well) and NBN to play at a LGS get together tonight.
I was going to take Andromeda but I haven't finished a deck list yet.
EDIT: Future Proof Spoilers: + Show Spoiler +
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On May 23 2013 17:00 BlueBird. wrote:I find playing AGAINST TnB(Weyland or OOF NBN and Jinteki splashing Scorched Earth) fun actually there are some tense decision points. They have multiple routes to victory and make you care about your tags, which sometimes you can just ignore otherwise. I don't think they are that mindless to play either, maybe sometimes? If you think about making them run into tags as run into traps, you can have some fun with it. Of course the Breaking News or Posted Bounty sitting out in to score + SE + SE is going to kill them or you, but you can sometimes predict that and steal the agenda point or have to force your opponent in to running/spending resources elsewhere. I don't find FA too be TOO scary as a runner, I can usually take the match if the corp tries to play a slow game putting together Biotic Labors or Trick of Lights + 2 point agendas, but I do think it's one of the safer ways to play a tournament match, due to prestige scoring. I personally don't find the game stale or boring right now, but that's just me. It would be annoying if everyone ran the same exact deck but that's just not true this is the meta breakdown for the tournament I was in, Corp: * 6x HB1:EtF(One of these was me, I think 2 of these were FA varients, and 1 was a big ice varient) * 4x Weyland1:BaBW (2 were TNB) * 5x NBN1:MN * 1x Jinteki1: PE * 1x Jinteki2:RP Runner: * 5x Noise(1 of these were me, almost all of them were Workshop Noise decks) * 3x Gabriel Santiago * 3x Andromeda * 1x Kate "Mac" McCaffrey * 5x Chaos Theory To be fair apparently the last tournament had worse breakdown according to this guys tournament report(all HB basically), but this was my first tournament.(http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/979931/pdx-netrunner-tournament-2-electric-boogaloo-repor) Maybe in a few months I'll be bored with the meta as well, but they have pretty frequent releases and I don't play as much as I would play something like Magic Online(where I play everyday) I play about once or twice a week with Netrunner and don't get all that many games in. If your meta/playgroup stagnates that really sucks though, personally I like to mess around with a different deck all the time, so I'm taking a Whizzard (probably not going to work out well) and NBN to play at a LGS get together tonight. I was going to take Andromeda but I haven't finished a deck list yet. EDIT: Future Proof Spoilers: + Show Spoiler +
Ooo an alternative to crypsis and wyrm. Should be interesting.
Oh I never really meant to imply that I was bored of the game, I still greatly enjoy it. Its a fantastic game, I'm more or less whining just like a SC2 player would about its game design even though he still plays it. 
With the prevalence of CT turbo and Workshop decks at the moment, it has caused the game to stagnate into FA and TnB play. After turn 10 the only way you can score an agenda is off hand, and a lot of ambushes and big ice I found to be quite useless with workshop/codecracker/infiltration/uplink. e.g Stimhack a run and install femme or just trash if they pull some crazy ice on you, mill 12 cards in one click, etc. I mean for example nobody is ever going to use Janus, now.
I feel like netrunner should be emphasising the bluffy/trappy aspect of the play much more, which is almost non-existent I found due to the current meta allowing runners to be very safe during the run. There's no aspect of that calculated risk I used to really enjoy, because now you can just install the cards you need off workshop whenever you see something you don't like.
For example recently online I've been playing CT with workshop, codecracker, sneakdoor and vamp and Jinteki really doesn't stand a chance.
At my last regionals me and the op were the only NBN players, there were 3 weyland and the rest HB, no jinteki.
There were 2 noise workshops, 2 gabes, 1 andro, 2 CT and 1 kate if i recall correctly, so Runner diversity was pretty good.
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United States37500 Posts
No Jinteki? My heart is broken.
I haven't tried to splash SE into other identities but it's definitely a fresh way to play TnB if you're bored of Weyland all the time. It's just 12 influence locked away is quite daunting when you're building a new deck. But there is that new HB identities on the horizon...
About Flare, it's about fucking time NBN gets some solid tracers. None of this sub-4 bullshit that's easily linked away.
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United States37500 Posts
NBN identity looks like trash until you realize it's 40/12. Thinner decks for Corp is definitely counter intuitive and 12 is just enough for 3 SEs.
Fk, so many new cards, I can't keep up. Wat dew?
Edit: annnnnd BGG people are thinking new NBN is for FA. surprise...
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On May 24 2013 07:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
NBN identity looks like trash until you realize it's 40/12. Thinner decks for Corp is definitely counter intuitive and 12 is just enough for 3 SEs.
Fk, so many new cards, I can't keep up. Wat dew?
Yeah I see the correlation with Scorched Earths, but then you lose some other things , I haven't looked it up but do you still need 20 agenda points with 40 cards? That means 1/4 cards is an agenda.
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United States37500 Posts
3 Astroscript, 3 Beale, 3 Breaking News, 3 False Lead, SanSan
Score all the things~
Edit: I'd totally splash Ice Wall and Archer, ahaha
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Its interesting how they alleviated a lot of the problems with the current meta, however I'm not sure if its the best way of going about it. Basically instead of punishing FA, they are saying if you want to beat FA, mine R&D harder. It still beats getting your full rig out and then having HB score everything off hand while you can only sit there spending 10 credits to see one card from HQ.
I first thought Ronin seemed a bit too derpy for corp (no risk), but then I saw the "at least" and figured its a fantastic card for Jinteki. Its like a reverse junebug.
Not so much for the damage aspect but it makes trapping and bluffing a lot more effective once you create an image with Ronin, enhancing the playability of cards like junebug and bluffing out agendas. A lot of players simply won't run remotes, at least with this it gives them something to fear for if they continue to just mill all day. Install a remote and put 2 credits on, is it a junebug? is it a ronin? an agenda? The only way to find out is to run it, or level the shit out of each other.
Thematically I like them a lot though, more parasite spam with retrieval run, and data leak reversal looks really cool for high risk/reward situations. And I'm glad they didn't just make Jinteki viable by giving them FA options, and instead making them more like Jinteki which is really cool.
I'm really confused by burke bugs.
Dedicated response team I guess is good against allin strats, although I really liked the aspect of going allin on R&D with 4 tags.
On May 24 2013 08:06 BlueBird. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2013 07:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
NBN identity looks like trash until you realize it's 40/12. Thinner decks for Corp is definitely counter intuitive and 12 is just enough for 3 SEs.
Fk, so many new cards, I can't keep up. Wat dew? Yeah I see the correlation with Scorched Earths, but then you lose some other things , I haven't looked it up but do you still need 20 agenda points with 40 cards? That means 1/4 cards is an agenda.
"- 40 to 44 cards requires 18 or 19 agenda points"
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United States37500 Posts
I'm partial to Ronin because it just adds another facet to the shell game when playing as Jinteki. From the Corp side (maybe it's just in my head) but I feel like it's usually obvious when it's a Junebug. Sure I've bluffed my share of agendas as Jinteki but flatlining is definitely the most fun way to play the identity but it happens the least with Junebug.
Burke Bugs seems like you'd splash into NBN for fun since it's just 1 influence. You're never going to rez it unless it's a guarantee kill. Seems somewhat lightweight but there's definitely a dearth of trashing program cards, so BB opens the option.
Dedicate Response Team on Weyland itself seems meh. Not like Weyland has many options of racking up tags. I feel like it's more potent in the new HB identity with increased influence. Splash NBN tagging with DRT and it has more uses. As it is now, it's like a surprise 2 Meat Damage for Weyland but hell, everyone tries their damnedest to remove tags vs Weyland ayways.
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On May 24 2013 09:20 NeoIllusions wrote:
I'm partial to Ronin because it just adds another facet to the shell game when playing as Jinteki. From the Corp side (maybe it's just in my head) but I feel like it's usually obvious when it's a Junebug. Sure I've bluffed my share of agendas as Jinteki but flatlining is definitely the most fun way to play the identity but it happens the least with Junebug.
Burke Bugs seems like you'd splash into NBN for fun since it's just 1 influence. You're never going to rez it unless it's a guarantee kill. Seems somewhat lightweight but there's definitely a dearth of trashing program cards, so BB opens the option.
Dedicate Response Team on Weyland itself seems meh. Not like Weyland has many options of racking up tags. I feel like it's more potent in the new HB identity with increased influence. Splash NBN tagging with DRT and it has more uses. As it is now, it's like a surprise 2 Meat Damage for Weyland but hell, everyone tries their damnedest to remove tags vs Weyland ayways.
Yeah gameplay-wise I guess Weyland doesn't need more TnB, but thematically it makes sense. Weyland seems like that futuristic draconian corporation who will stop at nothing to get back at the runners. Still I think its universally useful for corps, when you have runners that try to run through Data Ravens to mill that last agenda from R&D.
The reason Junebug is obvious is that you are never going to leave an agenda with tokens on it for more than one turn, now you have Ronin which you can do just that. This makes bluffs and traps much more believable. You can now leave junebugs with tokens on it, and the runner may think its a ronin. This causes the runner to waste time refilling his hand every time he gets damaged because he doesn't wanna die from ronin + neural emp combos.
I think Ronin will make Junebug a lot more powerful. You aren't going to just throw 4 down tokens willy nilly, you are going to put a few on and wait for an opportune time, like when the Runner hits a snare, and doesn't refill his hand. Imagine a shell game where you have 2 ronins down each with 3 tokens on it. The next turn the runner is almost guaranteed to die.
Now here comes the leveling aspect, if you do this, the runner will believe you have 2 ronins with 3 tokens on it, so instead you make one of them a junebug or an agenda depending on what you think the runners state of mind is going to be. If hes scared to run and wastes money on public sympathy and drawing, make it an agenda, if hes gungho about clearing out ronins, make it a triple advanced junebug.
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40 to 44 cards = 18/19 points makes new NBN more interesting.
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United States37500 Posts
On May 24 2013 09:59 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2013 09:20 NeoIllusions wrote:
I'm partial to Ronin because it just adds another facet to the shell game when playing as Jinteki. From the Corp side (maybe it's just in my head) but I feel like it's usually obvious when it's a Junebug. Sure I've bluffed my share of agendas as Jinteki but flatlining is definitely the most fun way to play the identity but it happens the least with Junebug.
Burke Bugs seems like you'd splash into NBN for fun since it's just 1 influence. You're never going to rez it unless it's a guarantee kill. Seems somewhat lightweight but there's definitely a dearth of trashing program cards, so BB opens the option.
Dedicate Response Team on Weyland itself seems meh. Not like Weyland has many options of racking up tags. I feel like it's more potent in the new HB identity with increased influence. Splash NBN tagging with DRT and it has more uses. As it is now, it's like a surprise 2 Meat Damage for Weyland but hell, everyone tries their damnedest to remove tags vs Weyland ayways. Yeah gameplay-wise I guess Weyland doesn't need more TnB, but thematically it makes sense. Weyland seems like that futuristic draconian corporation who will stop at nothing to get back at the runners. Still I think its universally useful for corps, when you have runners that try to run through Data Ravens to mill that last agenda from R&D. The reason Junebug is obvious is that you are never going to leave an agenda with tokens on it for more than one turn, now you have Ronin which you can do just that. This makes bluffs and traps much more believable. You can now leave junebugs with tokens on it, and the runner may think its a ronin. This causes the runner to waste time refilling his hand every time he gets damaged because he doesn't wanna die from ronin + neural emp combos. I think Ronin will make Junebug a lot more powerful. You aren't going to just throw 4 down tokens willy nilly, you are going to put a few on and wait for an opportune time, like when the Runner hits a snare, and doesn't refill his hand. Imagine a shell game where you have 2 ronins down each with 3 tokens on it. The next turn the runner is almost guaranteed to die. Now here comes the leveling aspect, if you do this, the runner will believe you have 2 ronins with 3 tokens on it, so instead you make one of them a junebug or an agenda depending on what you think the runners state of mind is going to be. If hes scared to run and wastes money on public sympathy and drawing, make it an agenda, if hes gungho about clearing out ronins, make it a triple advanced junebug.
And of course to top this all off is Fetal AI, which is the crux agenda to be playing shell games with. 2-3 advancements are worth it considering it's about how much the Runner has to invest so steal it as well. Add in 3 net damage if they do steal it, the options are there.
There have been a few games where I've attempted to bait with Fetal but the Runner doesn't bite, so I just end up scoring it ftw after 5 points. Oh well... it's not a flatline victory but I guess I'll take it.
I have to think about what I want to splash in Jinteki now with all these new cards. @_@
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new set looks interesting. NBN feels a bit trashy IMO. If they'd left you with 15 influence it would have been solid, as it is I'd be hard pressed to pick that over the default, especially with things like midseason and burke making those 2 free credits way more attractive.
I think shaper gets the pick of the runner cards this round, not only with three solid cards that synergise with a shaper's style of play, but synergise heavily with each other as well. medium dig shaper never looked so fine.
for corps, annoyingly it's HB again. Both of those cards are superb in the current meta. Eli is just on that perfect line of usability at 3 cost and generally being 4 to break through (assuming corroder) properly, or two clicks otherwise. Perfect for synergising with other bioroid ice, since those are subroutines you HAVE to click through if you don't have a barrier breaker.
as if HB needed more early ETR ice.
and that regional server is incredible, by far the best we've seen, even considering sansan. NBN struggles to get the cash to rez a sansan, HB won't struggle to get this thing out, at which point ichi and heimdall become unavoidable pain, even if you facecheck on click 1.
NbN gets a solid boost this pack, but oddly not from its own stuff. Flare is the wrong side of playable thanks to the crim-narch meta and the fact NBN can't afford to burn 9 credits on a piece of ice which is still going to get broken for 7-8 creds even if the runner doesn't have a sentry breaker. 9 credits for some surprise pain might be good in other factions, but flare is 3 inf to splash.
Midseason is interesting and super powerful in the right places. It singlehandedly makes psychographics viable, but you really need a very high economy deck to make it work, which NBN can have trouble managing. You really have to build a deck around it, and it needs to be an NBN deck.
The real winner for NBN this time is burke bugs. 0 cost ice is never bad and with those recurring credits you can really annoy people with the bugs. breakerless anarch has really got to waste a parasite on it, criminal needs to put crypsis tokens into it, shaper has to be careful of it early while their rig is still getting set. And only 1 splash cost, which is the kicker.
My top 5 from the set are (in no real order)
1) data leak reversal
2) indexing
3) burke bugs
4) ronin
5) ruhr valley
I'll be trying the HB bioroid ID when this comes out and an NBN trace centric build.
Will try some anarch heavy CT tempo as well, perhaps.
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United States37500 Posts
Eli is such a good ice, almost redeems HB: Stronger Together, hahaha. HB needs a few more cost-efficient ice and maybe will shift away from the lame FA variant. But it's hard to beat HB: EtF's passive. So much money for free.
I missed Indexing the first time around, feels like a trollsy Precog.
Ruhr Valley seems ok. The 6 cost is off putting since I don't consider it the same level as SanSan.
Hopefully we'll see a lot more NBN play with these cards. FFG is starting to flesh out NBN a bit more and they're starting to have a good feel to them. I'm still hoping for better ice for them. Tollbooth, feels better with other identities than NBN itself. Better tracers still plz. I agree with you on Flare's cost. The fact that their income is on par with Jinteki really says something.
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On May 24 2013 11:29 NeoIllusions wrote:
Eli is such a good ice, almost redeems HB: Stronger Together, hahaha. HB needs a few more cost-efficient ice and maybe will shift away from the lame FA variant. But it's hard to beat HB: EtF's passive. So much money for free.
I missed Indexing the first time around, feels like a trollsy Precog.
Ruhr Valley seems ok. The 6 cost is off putting since I don't consider it the same level as SanSan.
Hopefully we'll see a lot more NBN play with these cards. FFG is starting to flesh out NBN a bit more and they're starting to have a good feel to them. I'm still hoping for better ice for them. Tollbooth, feels better with other identities than NBN itself. Better tracers still plz. I agree with you on Flare's cost. The fact that their income is on par with Jinteki really says something.
I kinda see HB in two lights at the moment.
Either we admit that runner should always have the advantage and keep its high winrate vs corp, in which case I deem HB to be way too safe.
Or, HB is the only complete corp deck so far that is extremely stable against runner. I mean what HB has got going compared to other decks is its ability to be so reliable in all phases of the game, and have an answer to every situation.
Its a bit of a conundrum. I feel that HB is overpowered compared to other corps, but when compared to runners I feel that its well balanced. So either other corps should be brought up to HB's standards to be more reliable and less gimmicky, or HB should be brought down to create greater risk/reward situations that the other corps have.
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United States37500 Posts
Brought down seems rather difficult to do with a card game. What are you going to do? Start banning cards?
HB does feel like the Corp with all the chips right now, it has so many options and it largely stems from having the best economy. It's so hard to play Corp without credits and it's not like Anarchs who can say "f money, I'm just going to run and aggro you".
With each new expansion, it does feel like FFG is slowly bringing the other Corps up to par but as it is right now, HB has everything and it's reflecting in the number of HB decks (purely by entry, I still think Weyland wins more often? idk)
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United States37500 Posts
That said, what do you guys think each of the identities are really missing right now? If HB sets the bar, what do the other three really want the most in future expansions?
I feel like Jinteki is in a good spot, at least with PE. I haven't played Jinteki RP at all so that's still an entirely new side of Netrunner for me. NBN feels like its most lacking though, for reasons I've mentioned above.
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On May 24 2013 10:49 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
new set looks interesting. NBN feels a bit trashy IMO. If they'd left you with 15 influence it would have been solid, as it is I'd be hard pressed to pick that over the default, especially with things like midseason and burke making those 2 free credits way more attractive.
I think shaper gets the pick of the runner cards this round, not only with three solid cards that synergise with a shaper's style of play, but synergise heavily with each other as well. medium dig shaper never looked so fine.
for corps, annoyingly it's HB again. Both of those cards are superb in the current meta. Eli is just on that perfect line of usability at 3 cost and generally being 4 to break through (assuming corroder) properly, or two clicks otherwise. Perfect for synergising with other bioroid ice, since those are subroutines you HAVE to click through if you don't have a barrier breaker.
as if HB needed more early ETR ice.
and that regional server is incredible, by far the best we've seen, even considering sansan. NBN struggles to get the cash to rez a sansan, HB won't struggle to get this thing out, at which point ichi and heimdall become unavoidable pain, even if you facecheck on click 1.
NbN gets a solid boost this pack, but oddly not from its own stuff. Flare is the wrong side of playable thanks to the crim-narch meta and the fact NBN can't afford to burn 9 credits on a piece of ice which is still going to get broken for 7-8 creds even if the runner doesn't have a sentry breaker. 9 credits for some surprise pain might be good in other factions, but flare is 3 inf to splash.
Midseason is interesting and super powerful in the right places. It singlehandedly makes psychographics viable, but you really need a very high economy deck to make it work, which NBN can have trouble managing. You really have to build a deck around it, and it needs to be an NBN deck.
The real winner for NBN this time is burke bugs. 0 cost ice is never bad and with those recurring credits you can really annoy people with the bugs. breakerless anarch has really got to waste a parasite on it, criminal needs to put crypsis tokens into it, shaper has to be careful of it early while their rig is still getting set. And only 1 splash cost, which is the kicker.
My top 5 from the set are (in no real order)
1) data leak reversal
2) indexing
3) burke bugs
4) ronin
5) ruhr valley
I'll be trying the HB bioroid ID when this comes out and an NBN trace centric build.
Will try some anarch heavy CT tempo as well, perhaps.
I think you forgetting project beale. Project Beale is a 3 advancement 2 point agenda for NBN and therefore increases the viability of NBN by a lot , much more than any of the other cards. It also makes psychographics better, as well as being able to be scored for 3 agenda points for 5 advancements. Probably the strongest card in the pack imo, closely followed by R&D Interface.
Having access to 6 3 advance 2 pointa agendas during deckbuilding is one of the reasons that HB is so strong, and now NBN can. I have had success with NBN economy using Cadaceus, Shadow, Pop-Up Window, Pad Campaign and MMC. It takes a bit of influence and card slots but you can make NBN work, it's just clearly not as strong financially as Weyland Core or HB Core.
NeoIllusions: I totally agree that Eli is a great piece of ice, and man it's got only 1 influence too. I have a feeling that if I can squeeze this in to places wall of statics won't be seeing as much play in my decks, this is a great central defender. As for changing the game, well they need to bring the other corps up of course, I think the core identities from Weyland and Jinteki and HB are all quite good. Jinteki could use some stronger ice I don't think these tricks like Midori and Whirlpool really what they need. Jinteki and SE decks are the best at punishing mistakes though, and really mistakes are how the runners most often lose.
Even a really good HB FA player is not very safe from Anarch right now, although I do fi
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project Beale is pretty important to the overall game structure, but on its own it's a pretty terrible card. In realistic terms it's either a 2 for 3 or a 3 for 5 with zero benefits. When you consider what other 2 for 3s or 3 for 5s do for you, PB is terribad. NBN suffers from the problem that they have the clear best agenda in the game with astroscript, and if they get another one which isn't terrible they'll actually be a viable faction. Which we just can't have, clearly.
I imagine that if you build a tower of pain nbn beale gives you some interesting options, since no matter how far you advance it it's only worth 2 to the runner, meaning you can take some serious risks, but to do so you're going to cripple yourself spending up to do it and get no lasting benefit other than agenda points, and that's just not what the NBN cardset is built to do, currently.
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On May 24 2013 12:37 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
project Beale is pretty important to the overall game structure, but on its own it's a pretty terrible card. In realistic terms it's either a 2 for 3 or a 3 for 5 with zero benefits. When you consider what other 2 for 3s or 3 for 5s do for you, PB is terribad. NBN suffers from the problem that they have the clear best agenda in the game with astroscript, and if they get another one which isn't terrible they'll actually be a viable faction. Which we just can't have, clearly.
I imagine that if you build a tower of pain nbn beale gives you some interesting options, since no matter how far you advance it it's only worth 2 to the runner, meaning you can take some serious risks, but to do so you're going to cripple yourself spending up to do it and get no lasting benefit other than agenda points, and that's just not what the NBN cardset is built to do, currently.
I'm not sure what you mean, I play accelerated beta test as a blank 2 for 3 and it's amazing, giving me fast advance options as HB.
Having the option to score it 2 different ways, 3 for 5 early on when a runner can't run through my remote based on the information I have makes it really versatile. If its late game I'm just going to use sansan and score it for 2. It really gives NBN options and I personally think it's the strongest card in the pack . Everyone values cards differently though, and that's what makes these games interesting(otherwise we would all play the same piles of crap right)
Can't really think of the times when I will ever score this for 4, but I'm sure some psychographics combo players will have some stories with it.
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EPT
