This is an introduction/discussion thread for the LCG edition of Netrunner. If you're new to the game, this thread introduces you and will grow with resources and so on over time.
What is netrunner?: Netrunner is a fairly old card game with a cult following that has been updated and re-released by FFG under their LCG format. It was designed by Richard Garfield, the man behind Magic the Gathering, so it shares quite a few basic structural similarities
Netrunner is an assymetric game- one player plays the defensive 'corp' the other the aggressive 'runner' . The corp wins by holding off or crippling the runner, the runner wins by penetrating the corp's defenses and wreaking sufficient havoc. Due to the way the game operates, a runner is much more likely to win, so formal matches involve two games, each player playing each role once.
In terms of gameplay, netrunner is heavily based on imperfect information, risk taking and mindgames. Most corp abilities revolve around traps, lures, bait and switch tactics and so on. Because of the LCG format, all players have access to the same cards, so deckbuilding isn't based around what you have but what you want. Because of this, it's a bit easier to predict what sort of cards and strategies your opponent is holding or planning, but in turn it's also easier for them to bluff you.
Unlike magic, netrunner has a dynamic turn. Players get a certain number of 'clicks' per turn. Clicks can be used to draw cards, make money, play cards and so on. So in a turn you could draw 3, gain 3 credits, play 3 cards or any mix of these and corp or runner specific actions. As such, it's a lot harder to get utterly screwed, setbacks are generally of the more temporary nature and consequently the game revolves a lot more around maintaining and controlling tempo rather than drawing out perfect combos with reliablity.
Corp breakdown:
The corp tries to secure their 'servers'. Their hand of cards, library and discard area are all considered servers, as are some cards you play, which are played face down. The runner attacks these, and if they do so successfully they get to look at cards and can steal or destroy them. The runner wins by stealing a certain amount of the right cards, so the corp must prevent this as much as possible. This is done by using Ice, cards that are placed in front of a server which the runner must run 'through' to get at it. Ice has a variety of effects, from stopping the run cold to setting the runner's brain on fire or wiring the back of their eyeball to spam them with viagra ads. A corp can also set up trap servers that look like juicy targets but end up being an even harsher kick in the balls.
The corp wins by scoring agendas- server cards that you can spend clicks and money on. Spend enough and you score it, getting victory points and usually a powerful in game effect. The corp can also win by 'flatlining' a runner. A lot of ice or traps deal damage, which cause the runner to discard cards. If they have to discard and have no cards, they instantly lose.
Runner breakdown: The runner's job is to steal agendas, either while they're in play being built or while still in the library or the hand. They do this by running against the servers. To do so, they need the right tools to break through the ice, so a runner's game mostly involves scouting a corp's defenses, getting the right tools and exploiting vulnerabilities. A corp rarely has the resources or tricks to cover all their bases, so a runner needs to ruthlessly exploit any weakness.
There are several factions of both corp and runner in the game, each with a few identity cards. Identities are an always on effect that gives you a slight bonus in one area, used to synergise and give direction to your deck. Most cards also belong to one or another faction and players can only include a limited amount of cards from outside their faction in a deck. Powerful cards count more towards this, weaker ones less.
neutral cards are grey, and can be used freely by any faction, though corp cards can only be used by corps and runner cards by runners, of course.
Corps:
Haas-bioroid(purple): an AI/robotics corp that revolves around efficiency and economy. Their faction cards are generally synergistic and improve the corp's capabilities or drain the runner's clicks. Haas economy is more about lowering costs or adding time than directly generating money.
NBN(yellow): A media corp that revolves around surveillance and intelligence. Their faction cards are generally about getting a 'tag' on the runner and once this is done, using this to power their game up. NBN economy often comes from being run against, since their ice often gives the corp money when it's run through.
Weyland(grey-green): A financial/construction corp that revolves around economy and tradeoffs. Their faction cards often have a downside or are very expensive, but are incredibly powerful in the right circumstances. Weyland economy is mostly about using once-off cards to generate fat wads of cash until reliable moneymaking schemes come into play.
Jinteki(dark-red): A biotech/cloning corp that revolves around traps and mind games. Their faction cards revolve around nasty tricks and dealing surprise damage to flatline a runner who takes one risk too many. Jinteki economy is fragile, the faction mostly relies on slowing down and crippling the runner to keep pace.
Runners
Shaper(green): artistic/impulsive hackers in for the thrill of accomplishment. Shaper cards are generally expensive to play and moderately expensive to use, but with a supporting suite of cards designed to lower the costs and get things rolling without crippling your economy. Shapers typically make their money passively, without having to run. Shapers are the late game faction, powering up slowly to become unstoppable at the expense of early game threat.
Criminal(blue): In it for the money, Criminals are a tempo faction. They run early and often and have a set of cards designed to mitigate the risks of constantly diving through ice blindly. They make money through successfully running so they're a very snowbally faction. If a criminal deck gets rolling early, they're very hard to stop. Criminal cards are typically cheap to play but comparatively expensive to run.
Anarch(orange-red): Anarchs are trolls and black hats, all about causing chaos and destruction. Anarch cards have wildly differing styles, but generally revolve around destroying things and messing up the corp's careful planning then exploiting the chaos. Anarchs don't have many good ways of making money, but their cards are often very cheap to use once played, with the downside that they aren't very versatile, so an Anarch game often involves wild swings in power.
Buying in: Netrunner uses the FFG LCG format. There's a core box that costs about $30 US which comes with around 250 cards, with 3 instances of any one card. There are also a few cards with only 2 or 1 of each, so buying 2 starter packs is generally a good idea if you want to get into serious deckbuilding.
From there, there are booster packs that cost around $10 and come with 3 instances each of 20 cards (60 in all) Currently there are 4 such packs, with new ones being released every couple of months. A full buy in to the game for US folks would probably be around $100 for two starter packs and one of each currently released booster. This will let you build 2-3 corp decks and 2-3 runner decks and gives you access to all the currently available cards for competitive deckbuilding. The big advantage of the system is while the buy-in cost is high, you'll have enough cards to provide decks for friends to play with and have enough variety to be able to mix up your play whenever you feel like it, unlike magic where constructed building takes time, money and effort each time you want to change things around.
You can also play the game online for free with OCTGN, though the legality is shady.
Basic corp strategies:
Weyland tag and bag: Tag and bag revolves around scorched earth, which does 4 damage to a tagged runner. getting a tag on the runner in such a way you can play scorched earth is normally tricky, so tag and bag is full of tricks to make it happen. One shot, one kill.
Weyland fast advance: relies on low cost agendas to be scored consistently with relatively low risk, reducing the need to invest in a huge amount of ice to protect remote servers. Fast advance is competitive because, while it doesn't win often, it reliably scores a few agendas. Since an overall match is a combination of runner score+ corp score, reliably getting a few points is better than actually winning but with far less frequency.
Haas click advantage: Click advantage relies on scoring a mandatory upgrades which in turn allows the corp to play, advance and score other agendas in one turn so the runner has no chance of stopping them. Usually advance trick cards like trick of the light and biotic labour are used to help ensure a scored mandatory upgrades
Jinteki horizontal expansion: relies on one of jinteki's identity abilities that forces a runner to run on a central (hand/library/discard) server before they can run on a remote ( agenda/asset) server. By stacking central servers with cheap and nasty ice, horizontal expansion can lay out unguarded assets and agendas with traps mixed in, making life incredibly dangerous for the runner.
Jinteki flatline: the traditional jinteki build that aims to use a swath of net damage effects to surprise the runner and melt their brain. Playing against jinteki flatline is a terrifying experience for the runner, because you create situations where they have to run blind into a thorn garden. Even if they get through, they might end up hitting a snare or a project junebug and eating even more damage
NBN ecocripple: all NBN decks are about early game speed. Ecocripple uses a suite of ice, ambushes and assets to drain the runner's economy and force them to back off and rally for a turn- which is all you need to make a score.
Advanced corp strategies
Weyland fatcats: uses influence to buy all the big ice you can fit, a card based economy and lots of small agendas to stymie the runner's normally strong early game and go for a scoring win rather than weyland's typical flatline strategies
Basic runner strategies:
Shaper eco: standard shaper deck built around getting a full suite of efficient breakers like gordian blade, battering ram and mimic out, plus cards like mangum opus, underworld contact, cyberfeeder and so forth to make running less of a drain on the economy. Unstoppable late game, just has to be very careful getting there
Chaos theory power: uses the shaper identity chaos theory to run a smaller deck, with deck thinning and drawing cards like rabbit hole and wyldside. Draw out your whole deck (a runner can't deck themselves), get a full suite of hardware, resources and programs and just eat through anything the corp puts down.
Criminal tempo: standard crim deck based around hitting from the first turn and just keeping on hitting. mixes in anarch cards that make trashing assets easier and emphasises criminal cards that work off successful runs. Deny the corp money, keep wearing away at them until you have an unbeatable advantage
Noise archive runner: anarch deck built around trashing cards off the corp's library, forcing them to guard their archives in case you trashed some agendas. Forcing them to use precious ice to keep you out and then putting constant, heavy pressure on them to keep them off balance. Noise can quickly win the game out of nowhere if the corp is not incredibly careful.
Whizzard demolition: anarch deck built around using cards that allow you to trash anything, even things that normally can't be. Eviscerate the corp's hand, blow things up cheaply, sow chaos and exploit mistakes.
Advanced runner strategies
Medium dig: either shaper or anarch, working off the card medium. Medium dig is an all in style deck that sets up for a single turn of runs that can 'dig' 6-10 cards deep into the corp's library. This is risky against some decks but is often enough to win outright. If not, reconsolidate until the corp has drawn through the cards you exposed, then run another dig turn.
Hooray! I've been toying with the idea of making a thread about Netrunner for a week or so, nice job (and thanks for saving me the effort). One point I'd like to stress for anyone reading this that doesn't play already is that Netrunner has more player choice in it than any card game I have ever played. Player skill and proper decision-making are by far the most important factors that go into who wins a game. Being an LCG and not a CCG means it doesn't suffer from the "I lost because my opponent's deck costs twelve times what mine does" effect, and the way turns are structured means that randomness in your deck's shuffle doesn't really have much impact on the game at all (Magic players, that means no mana screw/flood).
Anyone with even a remote interest in cyberpunk-ish sci-fi and/or card games should give this a try.
Have had the core and next 3 expansions for a few weeks, playing with my brother. Don't have much to say other than it's extremely fun. The fact it's not a CCG so you don't have to pay hundreds/thousands to get a few 'rare' cards was a large factor in me trying it out. Deck-building is really diverse, asymmetrical play is awesome. Would recommend if looking for a high quality card game, but need one cheaper to play than magic.
indeed. I've only played a few games myself but it's a fantastic psychological game. I'm really looking forward to heading out to a tourney sometime and getting a feel for blind play. I've been doing a lot of deckbuilding and optimising in the meantime my two current decks are
a weyland fatcats deck: archer, tollbooth, wall of thorns, chimera, hadrian's wall, wall of static> all ice designed to stonewall the runner to block crim/anarch economy
hedge/beanstalk/green level/oversight/shipment from kaguya > all transactions all the time. oversight guaranteed to be good with my ice set, shipment good for powering up hadrians and keeping costs down, but still not sold on running it.
hostile takeover/false lead/priority req/atlas: low score agendas to drain the runner's eco, power archers and make easy money.
akitaro/experiential: server support. Aki+ chimera is one of the best combos in the game and experiential data helps shore up the deck against late game anarch and crim breaker sets.
A shaper 'power uplink' deck:
won't go over the card list, but it's pretty standard kate deck with a bigger emphasis on link with rabbits/dyson/toolbox/underworld contact and cards which make running cheaper (personal touch, icecarver etc). All designed to mitigate shaper's problems early-midgame with running. The deck is really, really hard to tag without using posted bounty or similar, and you can run against small iceforts for very little so you force the corp to double up across the board, meaning you can keep pressure on throughout the early game.
op should add something more detailed about OCTGN online play (theres youtube tutorial vids i believe)
game is fun, me and a few local people play at least once a week. lots of good games and interesting strategies that pan out, even if we dont adjust decks between our play times.
i play a unusual nbn (not tag n bag, not fast advance - strong ice, and designed to never advance anything unless i can score it that turn. runs snare and a lot of assets to take advantage of this) and a unusual kate (crypsis focused deck. all the other ice breakers compliment crypsis's problems and i use things like crescentus to keep the corp behind my pace)
Anarch gets some more nasty virus synergy Shaper gets some nasty new options for hardware specialisation, especially by splashing the new crim hardware Crim gets a new identity which leans towards a card based economic headstart rather than a tempo based economic boost.
HB gets yet another stupidly good asset along with a meh operation Wayland gets a decent sysop and a really bad bit of ice NBN gets more tagging options, but still has nothing to do with them Jinteki gets a really solid upgrade and finally that 'force the runner to go through your chum+katana combo' ice they've been waiting for.
Anyone got anything interesting for the corporation side for the current metagame, I'm expecting lots of Noise and Gabriel, and maybe a few people trying out Andromeda. I'm playing in a tournament tomorrow and I'm playing Workshop Noise, but I'm not sold on either of the corporation decks I've got built right now. :/
On May 18 2013 16:56 NeoIllusions wrote: Workshop Noise is so boring. Obviously really strong for tournaments but it's so cut and dry.
Likewise for corp, you can just run Fast Advance HB for safe and secure way of scoring agendas.
Edit: I obviously enjoy Jinteki the most. ;o NBN probably second.
I like NBN as well, and will probably play it in tournaments once project beale comes out. Having 3 advance, 2 agenda point agendas is too important for decks. NBN having a second one will be nice since astroscript is amazing.
I finished second place, which was nice(got the prizes I wanted), It was a "warm up" tournament for regionals, so 17 people, we had 4 rounds using the silly prestige system, don't know if I like it yet or not.
I totally agree with you about Noise.. I played boring workshop noise, I did not interact with people. I did not run remotes that were not rezzed, I was never under enough pressure where I had to stimhack a remote that could possibly be an agenda. I only used stimhack once all 4 games., I took advantage of medium and did not lose a game with Noise. I only had to run archives in 1 game, I usually use it as a last resort if the corp is putting pressure on me(they have 4 points and some $), as a way to close out the game.
My corporation deck did ok, I didn't play HB "Fast Advance" per say, but it's pretty similar so you might as well call it that, but instead of trying to FA everything from hand you try to get two things rushed through a remote early(a 3 pointer and a 2 pointer) before the runner is prepared, and then finish the game off with San San or Biotic Labor and a 2 point agenda. I got the idea from some people talking on the BGG forums about this so called "HB Rush" strategy that doesn't play trick of light or archived memories, and is much faster and I guess better against Noise? Idk I was taking peoples word on it, what really mattered to me was that the games ended fast, since this was my first tournament I did not know how much time 65 minutes really is when playing 2 games. When i play with my girlfriend at home we can take 90 minutes to finish an intense game!!! And I knew Noise could take some time if I played cautiously. So I reconstructed the deck based off of some information about it in posts as well as a pm I sent asking about key cards. I didn't put Chimera in my deck though, cause I hate that card.
Here is my list I went 3/4 losing a game to Gabe. I played subpar, but Idk if I could have won had I played better, would have needed to play it out. I beat 2 Noise Workshop Decks as well as 1 Criminal Andromeda.
I am cutting an Ash cause the unique thing came up way too often but I'm probably dismantling this deck anyways since I am not playing in a tournament next month I'll be out of town for regionals.
All of my matches ended with at least 20 minutes left on the clock, I think I played better in the matches where I could see the clock then the matches where I couldn't, cause I felt more pressed for time in those. I'm not too worried about time constraints after playing in an event, but there were some other players that had I played I would be worried about time because of their pace of play, the judges aren't as experienced as they are in MTG so it's harder for them to pick up on slow play etc.
Worst part about Netrunner, unlike Magic your not allowed to "Scout" apparently according to Fantasy Flight tournament rules scouting is unsportsmanlike conduct. This means if you finish first, you have to go sit by yourself and stare at the freaking ceiling unless you have other friends that are already done(you can go browse the merchandise and such but just making my point ). I'm still new to Netrunner so making friends still, so yeah this part sucked , I just wanted to watch some games since it's entertaining. . Also after the first round, between rounds 2 and 3, there were 10-15 minutes between last game finishing and next game starting. Lots of sitting around.
Not sure how effective the scouting rule even is considering we were all discussing the games we played in-between rounds.
Is it better to be runner or corporation first if you win the die roll? I picked Corporation but I honestly don't know.
Your deck is fairly fast Fast Advance if you ask me, haha. No Trick of Light but you have 3 Biotics and splashing in SanSan. Not to mention your strongest/most expensive Ice is Ichi.
If you're set on replacing the Ashes, (and you're set on your influence use), I'd probably sub in 1-2 Aggressive Secretary. Might be the Jinteki in me speaking but I like keeping Runners guessing.
I personally have not played in any tournaments but I dabble in OctGN quite a bit. Not as much since Humanity's Shadow came out. Every expansion just changes the entire landscape of the game. Can't wait for Whirlpool though, haha.
Edit: I'd pick whatever side you're more comfortable with first. Play to your strengths.
On May 21 2013 03:41 NeoIllusions wrote: Your deck is fairly fast Fast Advance if you ask me, haha. No Trick of Light but you have 3 Biotics and splashing in SanSan. Not to mention your strongest/most expensive Ice is Ichi.
If you're set on replacing the Ashes, (and you're set on your influence use), I'd probably sub in 1-2 Aggressive Secretary. Might be the Jinteki in me speaking but I like keeping Runners guessing.
I personally have not played in any tournaments but I dabble in OctGN quite a bit. Not as much since Humanity's Shadow came out. Every expansion just changes the entire landscape of the game. Can't wait for Whirlpool though, haha.
Edit: I'd pick whatever side you're more comfortable with first. Play to your strengths.
Whirlpool is out NeoIllusions, go put it to use .
I think it's a fun looking card, but Crypsis is so popular and it's really hard to "combo" into ice/traps with crypsis everywhere, if you ever get someone to fall for a whirlpool death trap take a screenshot I'd love to see it .
Maybe with crypsis out, you can "trick" people to make them break it then jack out, cause they think its a trap, and then you just score your Braintrust/Nisei and laugh? I think that could be somewhat useful if you play mind games with it.
Yeah I think playing to strength is good, I've seen people pick both, so I'm not sure if there is a best. I'm set on keeping 2 ashes, just removing 1 cause of the unique rule, ash was good to me. But like i said, the meta will change before I get to another tournament, there is regionals on the June 22nd, but I won't be here. I think the new expansion "Creation and Control" will be here by the next tournament I play in. My deck does have fast advance elements, but I usually only fast advanced the last agenda, and had some kind of remote with San San and Ash and ice. The other fast advance HB variant tht I used to play doesn't use it's remote for scoring, usually uses it for assets, and then scores almost every agenda out of hand. I do agree they are very similar though. I play at a store on Saturdays if i'm free, just casual games, but I'm not going to be playing HB and Noise this next weekend, maybe some Andromeda(haven't used her yet and honestly every deck I see with her in it is vastly different) and NBN .
And if you thought workshop noise was bad enough, try installing parasite off workshop just before your turn begins, so that parasite starts with two tokens instead of one. (if you have grimoire)
Another trick is to just throw as many viruses onto your workshop as you can instead of installing them so the corp doesn't protect his archives, stimhack the empty archives, install all your viruses and mill 12 or so cards off before accessing. If you don't outright win from that, just make a medium run and trash all the ice that you just parasited with your 6 datasucker tokens.
The workshop noise decks I play against never did any of this, so I'm just putting this down in case it wasn't common knowledge.
On May 21 2013 03:41 NeoIllusions wrote: Your deck is fairly fast Fast Advance if you ask me, haha. No Trick of Light but you have 3 Biotics and splashing in SanSan. Not to mention your strongest/most expensive Ice is Ichi.
If you're set on replacing the Ashes, (and you're set on your influence use), I'd probably sub in 1-2 Aggressive Secretary. Might be the Jinteki in me speaking but I like keeping Runners guessing.
I personally have not played in any tournaments but I dabble in OctGN quite a bit. Not as much since Humanity's Shadow came out. Every expansion just changes the entire landscape of the game. Can't wait for Whirlpool though, haha.
Edit: I'd pick whatever side you're more comfortable with first. Play to your strengths.
Whirlpool is out NeoIllusions, go put it to use .
I think it's a fun looking card, but Crypsis is so popular and it's really hard to "combo" into ice/traps with crypsis everywhere, if you ever get someone to fall for a whirlpool death trap take a screenshot I'd love to see it .
Maybe with crypsis out, you can "trick" people to make them break it then jack out, cause they think its a trap, and then you just score your Braintrust/Nisei and laugh? I think that could be somewhat useful if you play mind games with it.
Yeah I think playing to strength is good, I've seen people pick both, so I'm not sure if there is a best. I'm set on keeping 2 ashes, just removing 1 cause of the unique rule, ash was good to me. But like i said, the meta will change before I get to another tournament, there is regionals on the June 22nd, but I won't be here. I think the new expansion "Creation and Control" will be here by the next tournament I play in. My deck does have fast advance elements, but I usually only fast advanced the last agenda, and had some kind of remote with San San and Ash and ice. The other fast advance HB variant tht I used to play doesn't use it's remote for scoring, usually uses it for assets, and then scores almost every agenda out of hand. I do agree they are very similar though. I play at a store on Saturdays if i'm free, just casual games, but I'm not going to be playing HB and Noise this next weekend, maybe some Andromeda(haven't used her yet and honestly every deck I see with her in it is vastly different) and NBN .
I'm actually really kinda annoyed at the state of ANR right now. The ability for workshop to install outside of your turn just made runner way too safe without the need to facecheck any cards. All these tricks and traps seem kinda worthless when you can destroy every piece of ice in front of you with workshop. :<
To counter this corp play has stagnated into tag and bag and fast advance strategies which are no fun at all. Netrunner really needs to bring back the ability to make bluffy/trappy plays or else the game is just going to be extremely boring. You are never going to make runs on remotes for agendas, instead mill HQ or R&D because corp will only score off hand. Simply put some of the cards have simply destroyed the poker-esque aspects of the game which make it exciting.
The last regionals had 2 weyland tag and bags who would not even look at what their opponent was doing, simply text on their phone until they drew a posted bounty and scorched earth and killed their opponent. One of them even made it to the grand final, while not taking a single glance at his opponent and just texted on his phone.
Making runs, calculating risks and taking it on the chin and winning with allins with your back to the wall was always really fun. Now its like, "I am going to run your remote, oh a Janus, wait let me just install my femme off my workshop and bypass it, oh look a 3 point agenda".
My favorite games have always been the ones down to the wire where I have one card left against jinteki and one turn left to either win or lose the game, after having going several turns of just seriously leveling the hell out of each other.
One time I was reduced to a situation where I had no cards left in deck, a crypsis only, only one card in hand (a diesel), there was a card with two advancements sitting on the remote and we both needed 1 point to win and it was against Jinteki. Basically I saw the corp trash a card and replace the ice in front so I weighed up the odds of running a remote I could barely get through and risk hitting a dunebug/fetalAI and losing, or place my bet that the trashed card was an agenda and I'd be able to get through the unrezzed piece of ice. Either way I was going to lose if it got to the next turn, so I had to allin on this one.
I decided to put one token on the crypsis, bank a couple credits (I was flat broke at this stage), run the archives as my last click and hope to god it was an icewall or something. "no rez", found one agenda in the trash to win the game. Turned out the ice was a wall of thorns which would have killed me if the corp had 2 extra credits (my crypsis wouldn't have got through it), and the advanced card was also an agenda.
Then I put workshop into my deck and I ceased to ever have games like this, because I could trash every piece of ice before it could do any damage.
It's a wonder why that card isn't a unique when you have random stuff like Ash and Helpful AI that are. HB is probably the smoothest or most efficient corp deck (the FA variations) but it's also my least favorite to play. Runners I enjoy Criminal the most. I feel almost dirty playing Noise.
HB with biotic labor, trick of light + sansan just makes for terrible games. You don't even feel like you are playing corp, simply wait for those cards and score agendas off hand, extremely boring imo. Guess who made it to the finals of our regionals, only HB FA and Weyland T&B. Which is sad as they are also the most herp and derp corp decks which require almost no cerebral play at all.
For a faction that can safely score agendas, it seems silly to have gain a credit when you install, the strongest ice, the strongest economy assets which don't take turns to use, and an agenda which gives you extra turns. Lets just give a faction the best everything. Except maybe a cheap agenda which can help you directly score other agendas, not that that is vital when you have an agenda which can help you do that and more. The faction is just way too safe, and unfortunately with the current meta, its one of two factions that are really only viable given CT turbo rig and workshop.
Criminal is really the runner deck that is thematically my favorite. You make lots of runs, and your cards help you to be tactical and make more runs while avoiding bullets and indirectly crippling the economy of the corp with activation/shutdown spam. Ironically its really the only faction that has a good chance against a decent HB player, and probably the only one if HB gets a good start.
Currently the meta is just Noise/WS which is just omg ICE OM NOM NOM now give me your R&D. and CT Turbo Rig which takes as much thinking as following a lego instruction manual. Although a lot of Gabe is starting to appear now that everyone is doing HB FA.
Andromeda also I feel is really out of place, it would be much better suited for Shaper IMO. Whenever I faced Andromeda I would just breathe a sigh of relief while I just advance cards out in the open, meanwhile Andro is stuck with the dilemma of making a run and trashing the cards she really needs, or using wasting money just to get her handsize down because I didn't give her an opportunity to use them effectively. I think a much better identity card for Crim would be a larger handsize and more out of faction event cards, half the time you have so many event cards you just end up having to waste them to reduce your handsize instead of using them at a much more opportune time.
Shaper just feels so boring because they're so dependent on building a full rig. Combine that with the prevalence of FB, it's almost all the more reason not to play Shaper (the build up time). Granted, it's ironic that I've found more success with Kate than CT in my few dabbles with Shapers. Gabe feels like how Runners should be playing the game. Staying richer than Corp and poking at their weak links.
I personally haven't played with the latest expansion yet (still) but I imagine Public Sympathy is quite good with her and it dampens the threat of TnB decks.
You're quite right that there's a minimalistic interaction feeling when playing Weyland TnB but at least there is a possibility of the Runner breaking through and scoring an agenda behind your super server. The safety of HB is just too yawn inducing. All the more reason to play Jinteki obv! :D
I find playing AGAINST TnB(Weyland or OOF NBN and Jinteki splashing Scorched Earth) fun actually there are some tense decision points. They have multiple routes to victory and make you care about your tags, which sometimes you can just ignore otherwise. I don't think they are that mindless to play either, maybe sometimes? If you think about making them run into tags as run into traps, you can have some fun with it. Of course the Breaking News or Posted Bounty sitting out in to score + SE + SE is going to kill them or you, but you can sometimes predict that and steal the agenda point or have to force your opponent in to running/spending resources elsewhere.
I don't find FA too be TOO scary as a runner, I can usually take the match if the corp tries to play a slow game putting together Biotic Labors or Trick of Lights + 2 point agendas, but I do think it's one of the safer ways to play a tournament match, due to prestige scoring.
I personally don't find the game stale or boring right now, but that's just me. It would be annoying if everyone ran the same exact deck but that's just not true this is the meta breakdown for the tournament I was in,
Corp: * 6x HB1:EtF(One of these was me, I think 2 of these were FA varients, and 1 was a big ice varient) * 4x Weyland1:BaBW (2 were TNB) * 5x NBN1:MN * 1x Jinteki1: PE * 1x Jinteki2:RP
Runner: * 5x Noise(1 of these were me, almost all of them were Workshop Noise decks) * 3x Gabriel Santiago * 3x Andromeda * 1x Kate "Mac" McCaffrey * 5x Chaos Theory
To be fair apparently the last tournament had worse breakdown according to this guys tournament report(all HB basically), but this was my first tournament.(http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/979931/pdx-netrunner-tournament-2-electric-boogaloo-repor) Maybe in a few months I'll be bored with the meta as well, but they have pretty frequent releases and I don't play as much as I would play something like Magic Online(where I play everyday) I play about once or twice a week with Netrunner and don't get all that many games in.
If your meta/playgroup stagnates that really sucks though, personally I like to mess around with a different deck all the time, so I'm taking a Whizzard (probably not going to work out well) and NBN to play at a LGS get together tonight.
I was going to take Andromeda but I haven't finished a deck list yet.
On May 23 2013 17:00 BlueBird. wrote: I find playing AGAINST TnB(Weyland or OOF NBN and Jinteki splashing Scorched Earth) fun actually there are some tense decision points. They have multiple routes to victory and make you care about your tags, which sometimes you can just ignore otherwise. I don't think they are that mindless to play either, maybe sometimes? If you think about making them run into tags as run into traps, you can have some fun with it. Of course the Breaking News or Posted Bounty sitting out in to score + SE + SE is going to kill them or you, but you can sometimes predict that and steal the agenda point or have to force your opponent in to running/spending resources elsewhere.
I don't find FA too be TOO scary as a runner, I can usually take the match if the corp tries to play a slow game putting together Biotic Labors or Trick of Lights + 2 point agendas, but I do think it's one of the safer ways to play a tournament match, due to prestige scoring.
I personally don't find the game stale or boring right now, but that's just me. It would be annoying if everyone ran the same exact deck but that's just not true this is the meta breakdown for the tournament I was in,
Corp: * 6x HB1:EtF(One of these was me, I think 2 of these were FA varients, and 1 was a big ice varient) * 4x Weyland1:BaBW (2 were TNB) * 5x NBN1:MN * 1x Jinteki1: PE * 1x Jinteki2:RP
Runner: * 5x Noise(1 of these were me, almost all of them were Workshop Noise decks) * 3x Gabriel Santiago * 3x Andromeda * 1x Kate "Mac" McCaffrey * 5x Chaos Theory
To be fair apparently the last tournament had worse breakdown according to this guys tournament report(all HB basically), but this was my first tournament.(http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/979931/pdx-netrunner-tournament-2-electric-boogaloo-repor) Maybe in a few months I'll be bored with the meta as well, but they have pretty frequent releases and I don't play as much as I would play something like Magic Online(where I play everyday) I play about once or twice a week with Netrunner and don't get all that many games in.
If your meta/playgroup stagnates that really sucks though, personally I like to mess around with a different deck all the time, so I'm taking a Whizzard (probably not going to work out well) and NBN to play at a LGS get together tonight.
I was going to take Andromeda but I haven't finished a deck list yet.
Ooo an alternative to crypsis and wyrm. Should be interesting.
Oh I never really meant to imply that I was bored of the game, I still greatly enjoy it. Its a fantastic game, I'm more or less whining just like a SC2 player would about its game design even though he still plays it.
With the prevalence of CT turbo and Workshop decks at the moment, it has caused the game to stagnate into FA and TnB play. After turn 10 the only way you can score an agenda is off hand, and a lot of ambushes and big ice I found to be quite useless with workshop/codecracker/infiltration/uplink. e.g Stimhack a run and install femme or just trash if they pull some crazy ice on you, mill 12 cards in one click, etc. I mean for example nobody is ever going to use Janus, now.
I feel like netrunner should be emphasising the bluffy/trappy aspect of the play much more, which is almost non-existent I found due to the current meta allowing runners to be very safe during the run. There's no aspect of that calculated risk I used to really enjoy, because now you can just install the cards you need off workshop whenever you see something you don't like.
For example recently online I've been playing CT with workshop, codecracker, sneakdoor and vamp and Jinteki really doesn't stand a chance.
At my last regionals me and the op were the only NBN players, there were 3 weyland and the rest HB, no jinteki.
There were 2 noise workshops, 2 gabes, 1 andro, 2 CT and 1 kate if i recall correctly, so Runner diversity was pretty good.
I haven't tried to splash SE into other identities but it's definitely a fresh way to play TnB if you're bored of Weyland all the time. It's just 12 influence locked away is quite daunting when you're building a new deck. But there is that new HB identities on the horizon...
About Flare, it's about fucking time NBN gets some solid tracers. None of this sub-4 bullshit that's easily linked away.
Midori stands out to me as something really unique/interesting from Jinteki, and then Midseason Replacements stands out to me as an enabler for things like psychographics.
Really don't like the new NBN identity personally.
On May 24 2013 07:59 NeoIllusions wrote: NBN identity looks like trash until you realize it's 40/12. Thinner decks for Corp is definitely counter intuitive and 12 is just enough for 3 SEs.
Fk, so many new cards, I can't keep up. Wat dew?
Yeah I see the correlation with Scorched Earths, but then you lose some other things , I haven't looked it up but do you still need 20 agenda points with 40 cards? That means 1/4 cards is an agenda.
Its interesting how they alleviated a lot of the problems with the current meta, however I'm not sure if its the best way of going about it. Basically instead of punishing FA, they are saying if you want to beat FA, mine R&D harder. It still beats getting your full rig out and then having HB score everything off hand while you can only sit there spending 10 credits to see one card from HQ.
I first thought Ronin seemed a bit too derpy for corp (no risk), but then I saw the "at least" and figured its a fantastic card for Jinteki. Its like a reverse junebug.
Not so much for the damage aspect but it makes trapping and bluffing a lot more effective once you create an image with Ronin, enhancing the playability of cards like junebug and bluffing out agendas. A lot of players simply won't run remotes, at least with this it gives them something to fear for if they continue to just mill all day. Install a remote and put 2 credits on, is it a junebug? is it a ronin? an agenda? The only way to find out is to run it, or level the shit out of each other.
Thematically I like them a lot though, more parasite spam with retrieval run, and data leak reversal looks really cool for high risk/reward situations. And I'm glad they didn't just make Jinteki viable by giving them FA options, and instead making them more like Jinteki which is really cool.
I'm really confused by burke bugs.
Dedicated response team I guess is good against allin strats, although I really liked the aspect of going allin on R&D with 4 tags.
On May 24 2013 07:59 NeoIllusions wrote: NBN identity looks like trash until you realize it's 40/12. Thinner decks for Corp is definitely counter intuitive and 12 is just enough for 3 SEs.
Fk, so many new cards, I can't keep up. Wat dew?
Yeah I see the correlation with Scorched Earths, but then you lose some other things , I haven't looked it up but do you still need 20 agenda points with 40 cards? That means 1/4 cards is an agenda.
"- 40 to 44 cards requires 18 or 19 agenda points"
I'm partial to Ronin because it just adds another facet to the shell game when playing as Jinteki. From the Corp side (maybe it's just in my head) but I feel like it's usually obvious when it's a Junebug. Sure I've bluffed my share of agendas as Jinteki but flatlining is definitely the most fun way to play the identity but it happens the least with Junebug.
Burke Bugs seems like you'd splash into NBN for fun since it's just 1 influence. You're never going to rez it unless it's a guarantee kill. Seems somewhat lightweight but there's definitely a dearth of trashing program cards, so BB opens the option.
Dedicate Response Team on Weyland itself seems meh. Not like Weyland has many options of racking up tags. I feel like it's more potent in the new HB identity with increased influence. Splash NBN tagging with DRT and it has more uses. As it is now, it's like a surprise 2 Meat Damage for Weyland but hell, everyone tries their damnedest to remove tags vs Weyland ayways.
On May 24 2013 09:20 NeoIllusions wrote: I'm partial to Ronin because it just adds another facet to the shell game when playing as Jinteki. From the Corp side (maybe it's just in my head) but I feel like it's usually obvious when it's a Junebug. Sure I've bluffed my share of agendas as Jinteki but flatlining is definitely the most fun way to play the identity but it happens the least with Junebug.
Burke Bugs seems like you'd splash into NBN for fun since it's just 1 influence. You're never going to rez it unless it's a guarantee kill. Seems somewhat lightweight but there's definitely a dearth of trashing program cards, so BB opens the option.
Dedicate Response Team on Weyland itself seems meh. Not like Weyland has many options of racking up tags. I feel like it's more potent in the new HB identity with increased influence. Splash NBN tagging with DRT and it has more uses. As it is now, it's like a surprise 2 Meat Damage for Weyland but hell, everyone tries their damnedest to remove tags vs Weyland ayways.
Yeah gameplay-wise I guess Weyland doesn't need more TnB, but thematically it makes sense. Weyland seems like that futuristic draconian corporation who will stop at nothing to get back at the runners. Still I think its universally useful for corps, when you have runners that try to run through Data Ravens to mill that last agenda from R&D.
The reason Junebug is obvious is that you are never going to leave an agenda with tokens on it for more than one turn, now you have Ronin which you can do just that. This makes bluffs and traps much more believable. You can now leave junebugs with tokens on it, and the runner may think its a ronin. This causes the runner to waste time refilling his hand every time he gets damaged because he doesn't wanna die from ronin + neural emp combos.
I think Ronin will make Junebug a lot more powerful. You aren't going to just throw 4 down tokens willy nilly, you are going to put a few on and wait for an opportune time, like when the Runner hits a snare, and doesn't refill his hand. Imagine a shell game where you have 2 ronins down each with 3 tokens on it. The next turn the runner is almost guaranteed to die.
Now here comes the leveling aspect, if you do this, the runner will believe you have 2 ronins with 3 tokens on it, so instead you make one of them a junebug or an agenda depending on what you think the runners state of mind is going to be. If hes scared to run and wastes money on public sympathy and drawing, make it an agenda, if hes gungho about clearing out ronins, make it a triple advanced junebug.
On May 24 2013 09:20 NeoIllusions wrote: I'm partial to Ronin because it just adds another facet to the shell game when playing as Jinteki. From the Corp side (maybe it's just in my head) but I feel like it's usually obvious when it's a Junebug. Sure I've bluffed my share of agendas as Jinteki but flatlining is definitely the most fun way to play the identity but it happens the least with Junebug.
Burke Bugs seems like you'd splash into NBN for fun since it's just 1 influence. You're never going to rez it unless it's a guarantee kill. Seems somewhat lightweight but there's definitely a dearth of trashing program cards, so BB opens the option.
Dedicate Response Team on Weyland itself seems meh. Not like Weyland has many options of racking up tags. I feel like it's more potent in the new HB identity with increased influence. Splash NBN tagging with DRT and it has more uses. As it is now, it's like a surprise 2 Meat Damage for Weyland but hell, everyone tries their damnedest to remove tags vs Weyland ayways.
Yeah gameplay-wise I guess Weyland doesn't need more TnB, but thematically it makes sense. Weyland seems like that futuristic draconian corporation who will stop at nothing to get back at the runners. Still I think its universally useful for corps, when you have runners that try to run through Data Ravens to mill that last agenda from R&D.
The reason Junebug is obvious is that you are never going to leave an agenda with tokens on it for more than one turn, now you have Ronin which you can do just that. This makes bluffs and traps much more believable. You can now leave junebugs with tokens on it, and the runner may think its a ronin. This causes the runner to waste time refilling his hand every time he gets damaged because he doesn't wanna die from ronin + neural emp combos.
I think Ronin will make Junebug a lot more powerful. You aren't going to just throw 4 down tokens willy nilly, you are going to put a few on and wait for an opportune time, like when the Runner hits a snare, and doesn't refill his hand. Imagine a shell game where you have 2 ronins down each with 3 tokens on it. The next turn the runner is almost guaranteed to die.
Now here comes the leveling aspect, if you do this, the runner will believe you have 2 ronins with 3 tokens on it, so instead you make one of them a junebug or an agenda depending on what you think the runners state of mind is going to be. If hes scared to run and wastes money on public sympathy and drawing, make it an agenda, if hes gungho about clearing out ronins, make it a triple advanced junebug.
And of course to top this all off is Fetal AI, which is the crux agenda to be playing shell games with. 2-3 advancements are worth it considering it's about how much the Runner has to invest so steal it as well. Add in 3 net damage if they do steal it, the options are there.
There have been a few games where I've attempted to bait with Fetal but the Runner doesn't bite, so I just end up scoring it ftw after 5 points. Oh well... it's not a flatline victory but I guess I'll take it.
I have to think about what I want to splash in Jinteki now with all these new cards. @_@
new set looks interesting. NBN feels a bit trashy IMO. If they'd left you with 15 influence it would have been solid, as it is I'd be hard pressed to pick that over the default, especially with things like midseason and burke making those 2 free credits way more attractive.
I think shaper gets the pick of the runner cards this round, not only with three solid cards that synergise with a shaper's style of play, but synergise heavily with each other as well. medium dig shaper never looked so fine.
for corps, annoyingly it's HB again. Both of those cards are superb in the current meta. Eli is just on that perfect line of usability at 3 cost and generally being 4 to break through (assuming corroder) properly, or two clicks otherwise. Perfect for synergising with other bioroid ice, since those are subroutines you HAVE to click through if you don't have a barrier breaker. as if HB needed more early ETR ice.
and that regional server is incredible, by far the best we've seen, even considering sansan. NBN struggles to get the cash to rez a sansan, HB won't struggle to get this thing out, at which point ichi and heimdall become unavoidable pain, even if you facecheck on click 1.
NbN gets a solid boost this pack, but oddly not from its own stuff. Flare is the wrong side of playable thanks to the crim-narch meta and the fact NBN can't afford to burn 9 credits on a piece of ice which is still going to get broken for 7-8 creds even if the runner doesn't have a sentry breaker. 9 credits for some surprise pain might be good in other factions, but flare is 3 inf to splash.
Midseason is interesting and super powerful in the right places. It singlehandedly makes psychographics viable, but you really need a very high economy deck to make it work, which NBN can have trouble managing. You really have to build a deck around it, and it needs to be an NBN deck.
The real winner for NBN this time is burke bugs. 0 cost ice is never bad and with those recurring credits you can really annoy people with the bugs. breakerless anarch has really got to waste a parasite on it, criminal needs to put crypsis tokens into it, shaper has to be careful of it early while their rig is still getting set. And only 1 splash cost, which is the kicker.
My top 5 from the set are (in no real order) 1) data leak reversal 2) indexing 3) burke bugs 4) ronin 5) ruhr valley
I'll be trying the HB bioroid ID when this comes out and an NBN trace centric build.
Will try some anarch heavy CT tempo as well, perhaps.
Eli is such a good ice, almost redeems HB: Stronger Together, hahaha. HB needs a few more cost-efficient ice and maybe will shift away from the lame FA variant. But it's hard to beat HB: EtF's passive. So much money for free.
I missed Indexing the first time around, feels like a trollsy Precog.
Ruhr Valley seems ok. The 6 cost is off putting since I don't consider it the same level as SanSan.
Hopefully we'll see a lot more NBN play with these cards. FFG is starting to flesh out NBN a bit more and they're starting to have a good feel to them. I'm still hoping for better ice for them. Tollbooth, feels better with other identities than NBN itself. Better tracers still plz. I agree with you on Flare's cost. The fact that their income is on par with Jinteki really says something.
On May 24 2013 11:29 NeoIllusions wrote: Eli is such a good ice, almost redeems HB: Stronger Together, hahaha. HB needs a few more cost-efficient ice and maybe will shift away from the lame FA variant. But it's hard to beat HB: EtF's passive. So much money for free.
I missed Indexing the first time around, feels like a trollsy Precog.
Ruhr Valley seems ok. The 6 cost is off putting since I don't consider it the same level as SanSan.
Hopefully we'll see a lot more NBN play with these cards. FFG is starting to flesh out NBN a bit more and they're starting to have a good feel to them. I'm still hoping for better ice for them. Tollbooth, feels better with other identities than NBN itself. Better tracers still plz. I agree with you on Flare's cost. The fact that their income is on par with Jinteki really says something.
I kinda see HB in two lights at the moment.
Either we admit that runner should always have the advantage and keep its high winrate vs corp, in which case I deem HB to be way too safe.
Or, HB is the only complete corp deck so far that is extremely stable against runner. I mean what HB has got going compared to other decks is its ability to be so reliable in all phases of the game, and have an answer to every situation.
Its a bit of a conundrum. I feel that HB is overpowered compared to other corps, but when compared to runners I feel that its well balanced. So either other corps should be brought up to HB's standards to be more reliable and less gimmicky, or HB should be brought down to create greater risk/reward situations that the other corps have.
Brought down seems rather difficult to do with a card game. What are you going to do? Start banning cards?
HB does feel like the Corp with all the chips right now, it has so many options and it largely stems from having the best economy. It's so hard to play Corp without credits and it's not like Anarchs who can say "f money, I'm just going to run and aggro you".
With each new expansion, it does feel like FFG is slowly bringing the other Corps up to par but as it is right now, HB has everything and it's reflecting in the number of HB decks (purely by entry, I still think Weyland wins more often? idk)
That said, what do you guys think each of the identities are really missing right now? If HB sets the bar, what do the other three really want the most in future expansions?
I feel like Jinteki is in a good spot, at least with PE. I haven't played Jinteki RP at all so that's still an entirely new side of Netrunner for me. NBN feels like its most lacking though, for reasons I've mentioned above.
On May 24 2013 10:49 Thereisnosaurus wrote: new set looks interesting. NBN feels a bit trashy IMO. If they'd left you with 15 influence it would have been solid, as it is I'd be hard pressed to pick that over the default, especially with things like midseason and burke making those 2 free credits way more attractive.
I think shaper gets the pick of the runner cards this round, not only with three solid cards that synergise with a shaper's style of play, but synergise heavily with each other as well. medium dig shaper never looked so fine.
for corps, annoyingly it's HB again. Both of those cards are superb in the current meta. Eli is just on that perfect line of usability at 3 cost and generally being 4 to break through (assuming corroder) properly, or two clicks otherwise. Perfect for synergising with other bioroid ice, since those are subroutines you HAVE to click through if you don't have a barrier breaker. as if HB needed more early ETR ice.
and that regional server is incredible, by far the best we've seen, even considering sansan. NBN struggles to get the cash to rez a sansan, HB won't struggle to get this thing out, at which point ichi and heimdall become unavoidable pain, even if you facecheck on click 1.
NbN gets a solid boost this pack, but oddly not from its own stuff. Flare is the wrong side of playable thanks to the crim-narch meta and the fact NBN can't afford to burn 9 credits on a piece of ice which is still going to get broken for 7-8 creds even if the runner doesn't have a sentry breaker. 9 credits for some surprise pain might be good in other factions, but flare is 3 inf to splash.
Midseason is interesting and super powerful in the right places. It singlehandedly makes psychographics viable, but you really need a very high economy deck to make it work, which NBN can have trouble managing. You really have to build a deck around it, and it needs to be an NBN deck.
The real winner for NBN this time is burke bugs. 0 cost ice is never bad and with those recurring credits you can really annoy people with the bugs. breakerless anarch has really got to waste a parasite on it, criminal needs to put crypsis tokens into it, shaper has to be careful of it early while their rig is still getting set. And only 1 splash cost, which is the kicker.
My top 5 from the set are (in no real order) 1) data leak reversal 2) indexing 3) burke bugs 4) ronin 5) ruhr valley
I'll be trying the HB bioroid ID when this comes out and an NBN trace centric build.
Will try some anarch heavy CT tempo as well, perhaps.
I think you forgetting project beale. Project Beale is a 3 advancement 2 point agenda for NBN and therefore increases the viability of NBN by a lot , much more than any of the other cards. It also makes psychographics better, as well as being able to be scored for 3 agenda points for 5 advancements. Probably the strongest card in the pack imo, closely followed by R&D Interface.
Having access to 6 3 advance 2 pointa agendas during deckbuilding is one of the reasons that HB is so strong, and now NBN can. I have had success with NBN economy using Cadaceus, Shadow, Pop-Up Window, Pad Campaign and MMC. It takes a bit of influence and card slots but you can make NBN work, it's just clearly not as strong financially as Weyland Core or HB Core.
NeoIllusions: I totally agree that Eli is a great piece of ice, and man it's got only 1 influence too. I have a feeling that if I can squeeze this in to places wall of statics won't be seeing as much play in my decks, this is a great central defender. As for changing the game, well they need to bring the other corps up of course, I think the core identities from Weyland and Jinteki and HB are all quite good. Jinteki could use some stronger ice I don't think these tricks like Midori and Whirlpool really what they need. Jinteki and SE decks are the best at punishing mistakes though, and really mistakes are how the runners most often lose.
Even a really good HB FA player is not very safe from Anarch right now, although I do fi
project Beale is pretty important to the overall game structure, but on its own it's a pretty terrible card. In realistic terms it's either a 2 for 3 or a 3 for 5 with zero benefits. When you consider what other 2 for 3s or 3 for 5s do for you, PB is terribad. NBN suffers from the problem that they have the clear best agenda in the game with astroscript, and if they get another one which isn't terrible they'll actually be a viable faction. Which we just can't have, clearly.
I imagine that if you build a tower of pain nbn beale gives you some interesting options, since no matter how far you advance it it's only worth 2 to the runner, meaning you can take some serious risks, but to do so you're going to cripple yourself spending up to do it and get no lasting benefit other than agenda points, and that's just not what the NBN cardset is built to do, currently.
On May 24 2013 12:37 Thereisnosaurus wrote: project Beale is pretty important to the overall game structure, but on its own it's a pretty terrible card. In realistic terms it's either a 2 for 3 or a 3 for 5 with zero benefits. When you consider what other 2 for 3s or 3 for 5s do for you, PB is terribad. NBN suffers from the problem that they have the clear best agenda in the game with astroscript, and if they get another one which isn't terrible they'll actually be a viable faction. Which we just can't have, clearly.
I imagine that if you build a tower of pain nbn beale gives you some interesting options, since no matter how far you advance it it's only worth 2 to the runner, meaning you can take some serious risks, but to do so you're going to cripple yourself spending up to do it and get no lasting benefit other than agenda points, and that's just not what the NBN cardset is built to do, currently.
I'm not sure what you mean, I play accelerated beta test as a blank 2 for 3 and it's amazing, giving me fast advance options as HB.
Having the option to score it 2 different ways, 3 for 5 early on when a runner can't run through my remote based on the information I have makes it really versatile. If its late game I'm just going to use sansan and score it for 2. It really gives NBN options and I personally think it's the strongest card in the pack . Everyone values cards differently though, and that's what makes these games interesting(otherwise we would all play the same piles of crap right)
Can't really think of the times when I will ever score this for 4, but I'm sure some psychographics combo players will have some stories with it.
On May 24 2013 12:44 NeoIllusions wrote: You can bluff with PB, which is frankly the best part! :D Between PB and Ghost Branch, there's a lot of fun to be had.
The fact that Psychographics seems doable now is all the better.
There are a lot of players here in Portland that are super excited about Psychographics with the new set. I personally feel like it's kind of a trap, but I'm sure I'm going to lose to it next month, It is looking stronger than ever.
Why is it a trap? I'm pretty excited about it myself. I've never used PG before. :X I've built decks testing the idea but it was always so clunky, even with Datapool.
On May 24 2013 13:03 NeoIllusions wrote: Why is it a trap? I'm pretty excited about it myself. I've never used PG before. :X I've built decks testing the idea but it was always so clunky, even with Datapool.
Idk too focused on tons of tags, and not enough of a focus on other things. Cards like Psychographics, midseason replacements, sea source and big brother can just sit in your hand and do nothing, while your opponents are advancing their economy and game plan. There can definitely be decks that make it work, and like I said, when it does work it can be very effective. I'm just imagining from those forum/facebook posts, decks piling with do nothing cards and not enough economy/ice, proactive cards(some of these cards are too relying etc. Also how do you fit in closed accounts too, I love that card .
On May 24 2013 11:43 NeoIllusions wrote: That said, what do you guys think each of the identities are really missing right now? If HB sets the bar, what do the other three really want the most in future expansions?
I feel like Jinteki is in a good spot, at least with PE. I haven't played Jinteki RP at all so that's still an entirely new side of Netrunner for me. NBN feels like its most lacking though, for reasons I've mentioned above.
The main problem with NBN is its lack of synergy. I mean isn't it kind of ironic how usage of NBN ice is so prevalent in other decks while vertical NBN is about bluffing and FA while keeping the runner out as much as possible. Data Raven is more powerful on Weyland than it is on NBN, Tollbooth is more powerful on HB than it is on NBN, and its primarily due to income.
The biggest problem right now is that NBN core heavily relies on traces. The only problem is, NBN never has any money so the traces always get eluded for almost no cost, if you do bother to waste all of your income on traces, then you have no follow up.
First of all NBN could really benefit from some economy ice. A stronger popup window would be nice, I mean why the hell is Caduceus not on NBN, when Weyland shits money every time it does anything.
Currently the way runner tackles NBN tactics is the exact opposite of what really should be happening. NBN should be about making the runner deal with always being tagged, not forcing them to pay them off as such. Its far too easy to avoid them, and even when you do get tagged its never so bad that you can't get rid of them.
If the runner spends his time clearing tags he should get anything done, meaning that he has to live with them, in that situation the requirement that NBN needs ETR ice, economy and fast advance agendas in order to be viable becomes negligible. I think this is the way NBN was supposed to be, but it never ended up happening. However the up and coming expansion seems to cover this somewhat.
The runner constantly being tagged would allow NBN to control the pace of the game and instead of playing reactively, NBN gets to play proactively because he is forcing the runner into certain situations. With scorched this could be a little overpowered but then again NBN has no ETR (for the sake of this example) so the runner does have a lot of options.
Then instead of giving NBN expensive tier 1 ice it can't use, it should be satisfied with shitty everything, when you know that the runner cannot install resources and will always be in a situation which fits you. "Oh that's a pretty fat kati *TRASH, now if you want to get my agenda, you can have 4 more tags while I get money from econ ice, oh bank job, CLOSED ACCOUNTS"
I mean who needs ice when the runner has no money or resources.
currently it works a little that way, but against a good player, you will never find yourself using NBN event cards at a time which really suits. You won't even see Psychographics once in a blue moon, because its impossible to get more than one tag on a runner.
yeah, I dropped psycho and went down to 2 closed and 2 bb with PSF as the sum total of my tag punishment in a super tag heavy NBN deck. If the runner plays smart you almost never get a chance to hit them, the only way is setting up a bluff server with loads of shit like hunter and oroborous with a bernice and a chilo at the bottom so they can't get in without taking at least three tags.
You just end up with a hand of psycho, closed, BB and two agendas and you can't do anything with any of them
Was looking for a card game and stumbled upon this. I've watched the tutorial video from the OP and man I'm really liking this game. Gonna download OCTGN and try the game for a while before buying the actual cards. Is there a channel in OCTGN where you guys hang out? have never used that program
I've only played against randoms before on OCTGN though I'm teaching some TL LoL people how to play this game, who haven't play before, some time next week. They're all reading the rules and stuff this weekend.
Edit: Should say, if you know the rules to NetRunner, I can walk you through OCTGN np.
On May 25 2013 03:29 NeoIllusions wrote: I've only played against randoms before on OCTGN though I'm teaching some TL LoL people how to play this game, who haven't play before, some time next week. They're all reading the rules and stuff this weekend.
Edit: Should say, if you know the rules to NetRunner, I can walk you through OCTGN np.
Just watched the tutorial video so I have not fully understood all the rules. Will try to get OCTGN working and try to read some more about rules while playing. Would be nice to get a channel if that is possible within OCTGN so we can play between us, especially if there are a bunch of complete noobs to the game between the LoL pack.
Pretty good review by Alexfrog. He's one of the users on BGG that I enjoy reading posts from. Funny how he agrees with our Corp rating from yesterday, hue.
Pretty good review by Alexfrog. He's one of the users on BGG that I enjoy reading posts from. Funny how he agrees with our Corp rating from yesterday, hue.
He is a local for me, I drafted with him a few weeks ago(it was a trainwreck) ;P. Although he wasn't at last tournament cause he was sick. I think he's got pretty good odds at winning our regionals, I won't be there afterall..(jk). I think it's strange he thinks midseason replacements is a 4/5 I'm not sure it's that good since it is really dependent on the right chain of events to work.
The more I look at Eli, the more I get mad at HB. Suchhhh a gud Ice. :< I'm surprised he put Corporate War so low. I think I like it more than something like Corporate Retreat.
On May 25 2013 10:36 NeoIllusions wrote: You talk with him often? Just curious.
The more I look at Eli, the more I get mad at HB. Suchhhh a gud Ice. :< I'm surprised he put Corporate War so low. I think I like it more than something like Corporate Retreat.
No don't talk with him often, have only played with him two separate occasions now(really nice guy though), just thought it was funny you mentioned him since he is local for me. But since he is part of the netrunner community here I'm sure I will see him again soon(maybe tomorrow idk if he is coming for saturday netrunner session).
I love Eli, can't get mad at HB it's 1 influence!!! . I think corporate war is ok, I didn't see his rating but there are oftentimes where I score an agenda with less than 7 credits in my bank, and we all know that coming up from 0 credits is a pain, maybe that's his reasoning. I personally have a few decks that probably want it in it. I can imagine a weyland deck with corporate war and the hostile takeover card, maybe government contracts too, being interesting using your agendas to fuel an economy, you still need some economy cards of course, like transactions(got to pay for ice and advancement counters after all), but it will lessen the need for using economy assets etc, freeing up deck space.
I'm thinking of getting into this game, seems right up my alley. I was wondering if any UK-based players would share where they got their cards. Replies here or via PM would be appreciated. Thanks!
On May 25 2013 10:36 NeoIllusions wrote: You talk with him often? Just curious.
The more I look at Eli, the more I get mad at HB. Suchhhh a gud Ice. :< I'm surprised he put Corporate War so low. I think I like it more than something like Corporate Retreat.
No don't talk with him often, have only played with him two separate occasions now(really nice guy though), just thought it was funny you mentioned him since he is local for me. But since he is part of the netrunner community here I'm sure I will see him again soon(maybe tomorrow idk if he is coming for saturday netrunner session).
I love Eli, can't get mad at HB it's 1 influence!!! . I think corporate war is ok, I didn't see his rating but there are oftentimes where I score an agenda with less than 7 credits in my bank, and we all know that coming up from 0 credits is a pain, maybe that's his reasoning. I personally have a few decks that probably want it in it. I can imagine a weyland deck with corporate war and the hostile takeover card, maybe government contracts too, being interesting using your agendas to fuel an economy, you still need some economy cards of course, like transactions(got to pay for ice and advancement counters after all), but it will lessen the need for using economy assets etc, freeing up deck space.
With them both being Barriers and 1 influence to splash, I guess it comes down to do Corps want to use Ice Wall or Eli. I'll probably still stick with Ice Wall. You could spend 4 for NBN and get 2 Ice Walls and 2 Elis I suppose, since NBN's Barrier options are limited to TMI and Static.
On May 26 2013 05:04 Serek wrote: I'm thinking of getting into this game, seems right up my alley. I was wondering if any UK-based players would share where they got their cards. Replies here or via PM would be appreciated. Thanks!
I don't live in the UK however I also struggled to find places to buy cards, especially getting every expansion and cores.
If you can't find what you need, you can buy off Amazon which is what I did for all my cards.
Tried to register in OCTGN but I'm getting an error after sending my profile. Is that a problem on their end or there is a way to fix it? EDIT: Apparently the captcha wasn't showing under chrome, had to use IE.
Total Cards: (44) Agenda (11) Project Beale (Future Proof #115) x3 AstroScript Pilot Program (Core #81) x3 Breaking News (Core #82) x2 Corporate War (Future Proof #120) x1 False Lead (A Study in Static #80) x2
what is it? nbn semi solid reasonable ice, decent income from melange and ice that can protect it, and a lot of agendas i never actually have to advance on the board if i dont want to. plays to keep pressure up. you want to put them into a 'my next agenda wins' scenario then let them take tons of risks to stop you
Identity: Kate "Mac" McCaffrey: Digital Tinker (Core)
Total Cards: (45) Event (12) Special Order (Core #22) x3 ■■ Surge (Humanity's Shadow #81) x1 ■ Diesel (Core #34) x3 Infiltration (Core #49) x3 Sure Gamble (Core #50) x2
Hardware (9) Lemuria Codecracker (Core #23) x1 ■ Dyson Mem Chip (Trace Amount #28) x2 R&D Interface (Future Proof #107) x3 The Personal Touch (Core #40) x3
Program (11) Crescentus (A Study in Static #65) x3 ■ Creeper (Humanity's Shadow #89) x1 Crypsis (Core #51) x3 Snowball (Trace Amount #27) x2 ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead #7) x1 Magnum Opus (Core #44) x1
Resource (13) Mr. Li (Future Proof #105) x2 ■■ Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow #91) x3 New Angeles City Hall (Future Proof #109) x2 The Helpful AI (What Lies Ahead #8) x3 Underworld Contact (A Study in Static #69) x3
what is this one? shaper crypsis-focused tons of econ thats click effecient, ideal rig is crypsis/cresentus/snowball/something, designed to make hard calls to get in. needs game sense to work.
been playing both these decks in this style since i started that game at what lies ahead
beale means i dont need 3 point agendas anymore, and that was the last piece of the puzzle to me. the new id, while not amazing, fixes the 2 problems i always had with nbn (i want melange faster, and i want less agendas/ice in my deck). so im using it.
shapers been a work in progress, but its finally at a good spot. RD interface fixes up my style with added punch of power, while not hurting anything else in my current deck. trading mr li for my current snitch is also nice as that has much more utility. super excited for those 2 cards alone.
SaetZero one thing that stands out to me right away is the amount of high cost ice in your NBN deck. Have you had trouble rezzing that stuff? 3 tollbooth, 1 archer, 2 flare, 2 wall of thorns, 1 ichi even thats pretty expensive ice there. Do you ever find yourself just getting run over early game? I know you said you don't like 3 point agendas, but priority req. might be good in here anyways to help get up a strong server right away and support these heavy costing ice, allowing you to get two 2 pointers in ftw afterwards. I do like me some red herrings, it's good on R&D or on a strong remote.
If you played Magic before you can sometimes think of the cost of your ice on a curve, and it's really hard to make a high curve work imo without help like oversight AI or tons of transaction assets.
Your Kate is interesting, I personally don't like Underworld Contacts builds but if it works for you that's good. Do you generally find yourself happier with Kati Jones than Magnum Opus for economy? I like where you went with special order in Kate, I think Kate is strong with the new set as well here is a list I've been testing, as you can see we both went in different directions :D.
Event (27) 3 Diesel 3 Easy Mark 3 Infiltration 3 Modded 1 Notoriety 3 Quality Time 2 Special Order 1 Stimhack 3 Sure Gamble 3 Test Run 2 The Maker's Eye
ideally i have a melange or a pad, and i play close to the chest until i get some bank going to get a real server running. all i need really is a ETR ice on my R+D or hand (based on how many agendas i have in hand) and I can wait a little
early game board (reasonable) would be like
cheap ETR ice on a pad campaign, pricey ETR ice on melange, 2 cheap ETR ices on my hand, 1-2 pricey ETR ices on my R+D. then you wait for 2 pricey ETR ice and that will make up your agenda remote.
so something for example could be like,
static protecting pad, tollboth protecting melange, ichi into eli protecting my hand, wall of thorns into flare protecting my R+D. then wait for 2 real ice to make an agenda server.
but yes, money is rarely an issue. i just need to have an ETR ice on my hand turn 1, so i dont get account siphoned. that's all really.
as for the focus of no 3 point agendas, thats a key thing i wont lose.
no 3 point agendas means several things:
1- with exception on the single corporate war, all my agendas are 3 or less to score. 2- this means i can play agendas and never advance them, then just sac the full turn to score it right away in 1 go. 3- this means i can bluff agendas with upgrades/pads/melanges since i not running trap assets. 4- this also means that with 1 of these (astroscript token, san san, biotic labor) everything but corp war can be scored from my hand 5- so you need to respect this style and run servers blind. i dont need to give you hints on where agendas might be. and you cant rig up forever, as falling behind on points vs this deck is VERY hard to recover from.
if i had a 3 point, i could win in 3 turns sure
but with only 2s and 1s, and 90% of them being potential out of hand scores, i only need to get to 4 (or even 2 depending on board position) points for you to start making panic runs.
because if i get to 5-6 points, and im just waiting to draw my agenda to start it out of hand, you already lost. and that will happen so much faster than you think it will.
astro into astro is a nightmare. astro, into second astro (and you keep both counters), makes beale a place into 3 pointer next turn, no prior advance ment. astro+astro (keep both tokens) + sansan/bio labor = out of hand 3 point beale.
im trading your hint at knowing what servers are agendas before i score them for the fact i need to score 4 usually to win. and my beale can be worth 3 to me. you get no 3s from me. you need notoriety to make a 3 agenda win vs my deck.
lots of little decisions made me cut all the 3 pointers.
-----------
im testing kati, since crypsis focused needs clicks, and 1 kati for 1 click and passive contacts money is fien for money, while you put cheap pressure on while kati builds. or you get extra clicks to install non-crypsis breakers/cresentus. its working well, but theres some tweaks i need since i played a lot last night.
======================
your deck:
i hate easy mark. its influence you dont need to spend for a 1 money gain (if you have opus installed which you will). you also dont need spec order since you have test run. and with 3 disel and 3 qual time, you WILL get a test run or opus early. most likely both.
i would change your influence personally.
3 easy and 2 spec order is 7 influ i think? cut the marks and 1 spec order and you can 1 more stimhack+2 emergency shutdowns+ 1 makers eye
i hate easy mark. its influence you dont need to spend for a 1 money gain (if you have opus installed which you will). you also dont need spec order since you have test run. and with 3 disel and 3 qual time, you WILL get a test run or opus early. most likely both.
i would change your influence personally.
3 easy and 2 spec order is 7 influ i think? cut the marks and 1 spec order and you can 1 more stimhack+2 emergency shutdowns+ 1 makers eye
you could also try to get medium, hq interface, nerve agent, surge (if you want any of these), vamp, e3 implants.... all sorts of stuff
but the 3 marks and (1 or both) spec orders are not needed. you could do better with the influence imo.
think about it
If the $ works for you then it works for you, lately people have been keeping my economy assets like melange in check so I try not to rely entirely on them.
I have already cut the easy marks(they simply don't synergize with the opus and other cards that much) but I only added 1 stimhack(it's good vs unprepared players who think you don't have it, but man does it suck compared to when you play it with a workshop out, it's just not an economy card in Kate like it is in CT and Noise, saving you $ is always good though, and can win the game outright) and not sure about the other cards, none of the things you listed interest me that much except maybe hq interface, but I'm already heavy on the hardware.
I have splashed account siphon before and it's really not worth the 4 influence although it's an excellent card, at that point I should just be playing Andromeda splashing the shaper cards . I don't want to be a notoriety deck I don't think that card is that good in here since you need your turn to work out right and not discard it from trap damage, it's not awful by any means but I am just using it as 1 of to give me some extra tools/options. '
I am considering Tinkering but it really needs to make runs way cheaper or protect your from something scary for it to be worth the deck space/click.
Biotic labour seems entirely superflous. it's a 1 in 49 draw chance of a card you need 7 creds to play with to be anything but a hand clogger, and it's stopping you putting in say another eli and 3 vipers or 3 chums. What I'd actually do though is something like this
So what that gives you is a more NBN style mix of good ice. Eli is great, viper is simply a better choice than enigma if you can afford it, you have plenty of 1pointer agendas to make splashing another archer worth it. I put in data ravens to replace the WoS since they pretty much do the same job, and if not you have enough sacrificial agendas to bait people into running through and taking a power counter for use at your leisure. going through a data raven will *always* cost a runner 2 and an action to clear the tag, WOS will rarely do better than that and considering a runner will generally be paying another 3-5 to break the data raven routine, totally worth the 1 extra cost.
Ichi is great, but you want more of them than 1. 1 ichi is pretty easy to deal with for a good runner who'll always be running it on their first click to rez it and then dealing with it with a parasite, shutdown, femme etc. if you can get 2 in play they start being worth their splash. You could totally drop the archer for 2 ichis, but I think archer just synergises way better with your deck contents.
Foxfire is ok, but you don't need it. With the DRs in there you have plenty of tag pressure so you can just pop resources naturally. If you really want resource pressure add more sea sources, more versatile since you can use those to pop workshops, pawnshops etc.
Edit: Sorry, that was just super cool to see that lol. Netrunner is a super fun game to play, I really like how it's an LCG as opposed to a CCG, but I still don't like how you'd need to get multiple starter boxes/expansions if you want 3 copies of a card.
Edit: Sorry, that was just super cool to see that lol. Netrunner is a super fun game to play, I really like how it's an LCG as opposed to a CCG, but I still don't like how you'd need to get multiple starter boxes/expansions if you want 3 copies of a card.
That's cool thats your brother lol.
I agree the core set is annoying but none of the expansions are like that they all have 3x of each card even of cards you don't need 3 of like identities, just clearing that up .
Speaking of foxfire, people are really getting rid of resources in their runner decks since the new expansion, at least on octgn.
I've been testing Andro/WS on OCTGN with Mr.Li. Originally this seemed like a good idea, but the more I play it the more I don't like it, it feels way too janky. I also have a new CT and Anarch deck in the works ill post that when I finish and test it.
Basically the idea was to throw everything on WS with the 9 card opener (I'm almost guaranteed to get it with mulligan). Then only run HQ while keeping Corp money low with Siphon/Forged/Shutdown/Crescentus spam using darwin and femmes while building up my HQ interfaces with workshop, and using the built up credits from Pheremones to install whatever I needed (off workshop).
Let me know what you think, any ideas/fixes welcome.
I've been testing some new stuff too. I think eli represents a tipping point for the corp, one that was going to happen eventually. Currently there's just not enough good splashable ice, nor enough solid ETR or grindy ice to make some decks viable.
So I've been messing around tweaking a couple of decks. The first is original ID jinteki tower. The combination of fetal and Hosoukai is a big tipping point for them as well. The original ID is kind of bad in and of itself, but combined with hosoukai and fetal it's amazing. Guaranteed 4 net damage if they want to take an agenda. Combine with some chums, neurals etc and you have a pretty scary proposition. Even early game you can threaten a flatline if you can force them to run through a katana to hit an agenda with a hosoukai under it.
The other thing I've been considering is more or less pure barrier weyland with hadrians, ice wall, wall of static and splashing eli, wall of thorns, heimdalls, etc. I've noticed that people rarely play a heavy load of barrier breakers and when they do it's generally crypsis or corroder, almost never battering ram. So there's little risk in stacking barriers and that gives you some really reliable scoring options and safe melange econ.
So hard to comment since I have no experience with pheromones, darwin or mr. li. I think stimhack is amazing with workshop and is what makes workshop shine but you don't have influence room unless you cut 2-3 darwin from your deck or 1 workshop.
It's miles different from any Andromeda deck I have played tbh can't say much else. Your way heavier on resources and way lighter on events than I am.
One thing that sticks out is no inside jobs, and no way too access extra cards on R&D, you might be light on pressure especially since you need time for your darwin to build up. I really feel like inside job is amazing, but maybe just mention it casually to your opponent while playing(something like hey, I drew 9 cards starting but no inside job, what gives), since the pressure of inside job is almost as good as having it. (basically forcing them to have extra ice on servers they might not want it)
So hard to comment since I have no experience with pheromones, darwin or mr. li. I think stimhack is amazing with workshop and is what makes workshop shine but you don't have influence room unless you cut 2-3 darwin from your deck or 1 workshop.
It's miles different from any Andromeda deck I have played tbh can't say much else. Your way heavier on resources and way lighter on events than I am.
One thing that sticks out is no inside jobs, and no way too access extra cards on R&D, you might be light on pressure especially since you need time for your darwin to build up. I really feel like inside job is amazing, but maybe just mention it casually to your opponent while playing(something like hey, I drew 9 cards starting but no inside job, what gives), since the pressure of inside job is almost as good as having it. (basically forcing them to have extra ice on servers they might not want it)
Exactly, I don't really need inside job when I can bust out femmes in no time with my ws + econ. The fear of the event card being there is enough. So don't really need stimhack as I can afford everything anyway. I always play econ heavy, its just something that suits me much better, especially when I have vamp, although for this setup maybe not so.
You are right on the pressure, which is what I didn't like about it. When corp just goes full econ with lots of ice instead of FA I really struggle.
another random thought, the alt HB id is looking more interesting now. The meta is developing a lot and that +1 strength is super good on quite a few pieces of ice. Eli and heimdall of course, just makes them more annoying. But it gets viktor out of yog range, so it makes him kind of viable. It doesn't do a lot for ichi, but it makes sherlock a lot more playable going from 5-6.
Probably worth waiting for creation and control though
Just built a new CT Deck, won my first 2 games out of 2 so far on OCTGN.
Basically I testrun femmes and steal agendas when they try and FA, while building up a steady supply of dataleak reversals and all-nighters. I also have the opportunity to do stimhack runs and see a few cards off R&D in midgame using R&D interface.
Then once I've built up I use vamp and blow all my all nighters in one hit and keep using data leak reversal as much as possible until they are removed. At max capacity this should mill a minimum 14 cards if corp spends every turn killing dataleak reversal. If he doesn't its an additional 4 cards per turn. Even the first run is much more than a noise deck can do, best of all, unlike Noise, it doesn't cost me anything.
If he creates a tower of pain in front of archives, I can just keep milling till Corp loses his entire deck and dies, or just vamp him again so he can't rez his ice and run archives. By this point I don't really care that I'm tagged simply because Workshop isn't that useful at this point, and my economy comes from Mopus.
However I'm saddened I still have yet to unleash the dataleak pain train to see if its any good because I keep winning before then.
On May 30 2013 22:57 Thereisnosaurus wrote: another random thought, the alt HB id is looking more interesting now. The meta is developing a lot and that +1 strength is super good on quite a few pieces of ice. Eli and heimdall of course, just makes them more annoying. But it gets viktor out of yog range, so it makes him kind of viable. It doesn't do a lot for ichi, but it makes sherlock a lot more playable going from 5-6.
Probably worth waiting for creation and control though
You can probably tinker around with HB:ST now if you want. There are a number of low to mid cost bioriods to play with. Viktor benefits the most obviously. Heimdall is pretty expensive with HB:ETF's passive. But Sherlock, Ichi, Eli give you a good spread on Ice.
Too bad Rototurret isn't a bioroid though. Wouldn't have mind to make that Ninja pay and extra 3 just to break through.
On May 30 2013 23:15 sluggaslamoo wrote: Just built a new CT Deck, won my first 2 games out of 2 so far on OCTGN.
Basically I testrun femmes and steal agendas when they try and FA, while building up a steady supply of dataleak reversals and all-nighters. I also have the opportunity to do stimhack runs and see a few cards off R&D in midgame using R&D interface.
Then once I've built up I use vamp and blow all my all nighters in one hit and keep using data leak reversal as much as possible until they are removed. At max capacity this should mill a minimum 14 cards if corp spends every turn killing dataleak reversal. If he doesn't its an additional 4 cards per turn. Even the first run is much more than a noise deck can do, best of all, unlike Noise, it doesn't cost me anything.
If he creates a tower of pain in front of archives, I can just keep milling till Corp loses his entire deck and dies, or just vamp him again so he can't rez his ice and run archives. By this point I don't really care that I'm tagged simply because Workshop isn't that useful at this point, and my economy comes from Mopus.
However I'm saddened I still have yet to unleash the dataleak pain train to see if its any good because I keep winning before then.
Event (12) 3x Diesel 2x Quality Time 2x Stimhack ●● 3x Test Run 2x Vamp ●●●●
Hardware (8) 3x R&D Interface 3x The Personal Touch 2x The Toolbox
Program (11) 2x Corroder ●●●● 2x Deep Thought 2x Femme Fatale ●● 2x Gordian Blade 3x Magnum Opus
Resource (9) 3x All Nighter 3x Data Leak Reversal ●●● 3x Personal Workshop
amagad Workshop in Shaper, you don't say~ Overall, it looks really solid. Only thing I can see I could even possible pick at is the Deep Thoughts. Could run Indexing or Modded instead.
On May 30 2013 12:30 Thereisnosaurus wrote: Biotic labour seems entirely superflous. it's a 1 in 49 draw chance of a card you need 7 creds to play with to be anything but a hand clogger, and it's stopping you putting in say another eli and 3 vipers or 3 chums. What I'd actually do though is something like this
So what that gives you is a more NBN style mix of good ice. Eli is great, viper is simply a better choice than enigma if you can afford it, you have plenty of 1pointer agendas to make splashing another archer worth it. I put in data ravens to replace the WoS since they pretty much do the same job, and if not you have enough sacrificial agendas to bait people into running through and taking a power counter for use at your leisure. going through a data raven will *always* cost a runner 2 and an action to clear the tag, WOS will rarely do better than that and considering a runner will generally be paying another 3-5 to break the data raven routine, totally worth the 1 extra cost.
Ichi is great, but you want more of them than 1. 1 ichi is pretty easy to deal with for a good runner who'll always be running it on their first click to rez it and then dealing with it with a parasite, shutdown, femme etc. if you can get 2 in play they start being worth their splash. You could totally drop the archer for 2 ichis, but I think archer just synergises way better with your deck contents.
Foxfire is ok, but you don't need it. With the DRs in there you have plenty of tag pressure so you can just pop resources naturally. If you really want resource pressure add more sea sources, more versatile since you can use those to pop workshops, pawnshops etc.
labor is a style choice, and i used to run two. its just a 'its late game and i cant put this agenda on the board and keep it safe for 1 turn vs kate' or similar. if core had 2 san sans, i might not run it, but it doesnt, so its a flexible san san for 2 cheaper, but only 1 time.
data raven without a tag punish thats harder than closed account isnt scary. my friends learned they can just run into it over and over, it didnt matter since i dont run psycho or scorched. so its really not the same, but i get what you mean there. just doesnt work vs people you people regularly that know your set of tag punishes.
not using the id with the trace money, so viper is hardly worth it. maybe if it was neutral. but im not using tmi either, which is a 'get it alive one time' trace for the same reason. in practice its just not worth the effort.
i get what your saying, but its not my style so i dont really agree with it at all. thanks for the input though.
truth be told, i should be playing HB. if i wasnt in love with astroscript, i would be. my deck really is just a poor mans HB with a splash of yellow paint of it. lol.
On May 30 2013 23:15 sluggaslamoo wrote: Just built a new CT Deck, won my first 2 games out of 2 so far on OCTGN.
Basically I testrun femmes and steal agendas when they try and FA, while building up a steady supply of dataleak reversals and all-nighters. I also have the opportunity to do stimhack runs and see a few cards off R&D in midgame using R&D interface.
Then once I've built up I use vamp and blow all my all nighters in one hit and keep using data leak reversal as much as possible until they are removed. At max capacity this should mill a minimum 14 cards if corp spends every turn killing dataleak reversal. If he doesn't its an additional 4 cards per turn. Even the first run is much more than a noise deck can do, best of all, unlike Noise, it doesn't cost me anything.
If he creates a tower of pain in front of archives, I can just keep milling till Corp loses his entire deck and dies, or just vamp him again so he can't rez his ice and run archives. By this point I don't really care that I'm tagged simply because Workshop isn't that useful at this point, and my economy comes from Mopus.
However I'm saddened I still have yet to unleash the dataleak pain train to see if its any good because I keep winning before then.
Event (12) 3x Diesel 2x Quality Time 2x Stimhack ●● 3x Test Run 2x Vamp ●●●●
Hardware (8) 3x R&D Interface 3x The Personal Touch 2x The Toolbox
Program (11) 2x Corroder ●●●● 2x Deep Thought 2x Femme Fatale ●● 2x Gordian Blade 3x Magnum Opus
Resource (9) 3x All Nighter 3x Data Leak Reversal ●●● 3x Personal Workshop
amagad Workshop in Shaper, you don't say~ Overall, it looks really solid. Only thing I can see I could even possible pick at is the Deep Thoughts. Could run Indexing or Modded instead.
Yep, I'm actually thinking of removing deep thought also because its kinda what prompted me to put toolbox in there, which I guess isn't too bad but I just can't see it being that useful under a time constraint.
I'm thinking of ways that could help achieve the main goal of this deck. Ill probably swap deep thought for plascrete carapace because every Weyland deck runs scorched. And maybe swap toolboxes public sympathy or infiltration or even indexing like you suggested.
Plascrete is definitely a good idea since you actually welcome tags, it's the consequences of what Corp can do that you have to watch out for.
I'd also consider getting 3 Vamps and dropping a Corroder. Your deck is about denial and milling. With 3 Test Runs, you can grab that lone Corroder anyways. You need more opportunities to keep Corp poor and you don't have Deja Vu like hardcore denial runners splash..
Haha just won a game against NBN where he managed to get up 30 creds from 5 drip feed cards, then used midseason replacements to put 24 tags on me. So I just used dataleak until he ran out of cards and won. Also just stole every agenda he put down bypassing his dataraven with femme and using infiltration to check for traps prior to that.
So I just used dataleak until he ran out of cards and won.
he let you keep it? with 24 tags on you?
Yeah he wasn't keeping track and he only had 7 or so cards left. Second game he got rid of it immediately but it was too late, I just ran archives and before I knew it I had 12 agenda pts.
Also future proof out now on Amazon. :D (edit: damn they don't ship to australia anymore)
On May 31 2013 18:42 Thereisnosaurus wrote: should be up in blackburn in a couple of weeks then. You going to the next game night? or do you wanna come over here to play sometime
Hopefully, although it will probably be 3-5 weeks considering that's when Angus&Rob is bringing it in.
I don't think I understand this game. My brother just absolutely smashed me while we were playing the beginner set with Jinteki vs. Shaper. It seems like the Shaper just grew stronger and stronger and eventually just blew through everything Jinteki could put up using a Magnum Opus fueled Crypsis. How am I supposed to deal with that?
On June 01 2013 13:08 Loving Memory wrote: I don't think I understand this game. My brother just absolutely smashed me while we were playing the beginner set with Jinteki vs. Shaper. It seems like the Shaper just grew stronger and stronger and eventually just blew through everything Jinteki could put up using a Magnum Opus fueled Crypsis. How am I supposed to deal with that?
If the runer runs aggressively using the starter decks than the runner has a good advantage due to the fact there aren't that many ETR ice in the starters. If you guys build your own decks, then only using the core set the corporation is pretty strong(at least compared to the current state of things). The runner gets better in later expansions when you add things like Personal Workshop, Emergency Shutdown, etc.
Yes Magnum Opus + Crypsis is pretty strong, and with Jinteki you can either trick your opponent in to traps or try to aggressively advance agendas when they think they are traps. All the starter decks run infiltration so this isn't the easiest thing in the world. The other corporation factions in the core are better because of their ice.
On June 01 2013 13:08 Loving Memory wrote: I don't think I understand this game. My brother just absolutely smashed me while we were playing the beginner set with Jinteki vs. Shaper. It seems like the Shaper just grew stronger and stronger and eventually just blew through everything Jinteki could put up using a Magnum Opus fueled Crypsis. How am I supposed to deal with that?
If the runer runs aggressively using the starter decks than the runner has a good advantage due to the fact there aren't that many ETR ice in the starters. If you guys build your own decks, then only using the core set the corporation is pretty strong(at least compared to the current state of things). The runner gets better in later expansions when you add things like Personal Workshop, Emergency Shutdown, etc.
Yes Magnum Opus + Crypsis is pretty strong, and with Jinteki you can either trick your opponent in to traps or try to aggressively advance agendas when they think they are traps. All the starter decks run infiltration so this isn't the easiest thing in the world. The other corporation factions in the core are better because of their ice.
Yeah, there were some definite trap opportunities that I missed (too much defense on top of Junebug, various snares, etc).
Also netrunner is a lot like SC in that there are fluctuations in racial power. Some factions are about holding off till they hit critical mass, other factions are about never letting them get there.
Unfortunately, you played with jinteki- the most technical pressure faction- vs shaper- the most forgiving snowball faction. it's like bronze level PvZ. If you don't know when to time your push, hit your forcefields and stop the growth, you get run over 90% of the time.
I'd recommend playing HB or Weyland vs shaper to begin with, they scale a bit more evenly against each other. Weyland if you liked the aggressive aspects of jinteki, HB if you enjoyed the build optimisation/mindgames part
On June 01 2013 13:08 Loving Memory wrote: I don't think I understand this game. My brother just absolutely smashed me while we were playing the beginner set with Jinteki vs. Shaper. It seems like the Shaper just grew stronger and stronger and eventually just blew through everything Jinteki could put up using a Magnum Opus fueled Crypsis. How am I supposed to deal with that?
Especially at the beginner levels runner generally has a higher winrate than corp. The better you get that margin decreases significantly, there are many competitive players that prefer to play corp over runner.
You also picked Jinteki which is one of the more difficult factions to play, and when you don't do it right it feels like your ice are worthless once the runner has his breakers.
As for your actual question, the easiest way to deal with Crypsis is to build towers in front of your most vital servers. Crypsis needs virus tokens to get through ice, the maximum amount of virus tokens a runner can put on per turn is 4. This will ensure that the runner can only run once a turn or even never (if you wipe those counters).
Wiping virus counters will ensure that the runner will never be able to get through your ice while you just build economy from assets which don't require clicks. Once corp has a lot of money over the runner the corp becomes in control of the game and the runner will find it difficult to play effectively. Corp can just keep install more ice until it is impossible for the crypsis only runner to reach your agendas which you can just safely advance. Once you are 2 points from victory and the runner has painstakingly built up enough resources to run, throw down a junebug and watch him cry when he hits it.
On June 01 2013 13:08 Loving Memory wrote: I don't think I understand this game. My brother just absolutely smashed me while we were playing the beginner set with Jinteki vs. Shaper. It seems like the Shaper just grew stronger and stronger and eventually just blew through everything Jinteki could put up using a Magnum Opus fueled Crypsis. How am I supposed to deal with that?
Especially at the beginner levels runner generally has a higher winrate than corp. The better you get that margin decreases significantly, there are many competitive players that prefer to play corp over runner.
You also picked Jinteki which is one of the more difficult factions to play, and when you don't do it right it feels like your ice are worthless once the runner has his breakers.
As for your actual question, the easiest way to deal with Crypsis is to build towers in front of your most vital servers. Crypsis needs virus tokens to get through ice, the maximum amount of virus tokens a runner can put on per turn is 4. This will ensure that the runner can only run once a turn or even never (if you wipe those counters).
Wiping virus counters will ensure that the runner will never be able to get through your ice while you just build economy from assets which don't require clicks. Once corp has a lot of money over the runner the corp becomes in control of the game and the runner will find it difficult to play effectively. Corp can just keep install more ice until it is impossible for the crypsis only runner to reach your agendas which you can just safely advance. Once you are 2 points from victory and the runner has painstakingly built up enough resources to run, throw down a junebug and watch him cry when he hits it.
Curious that you find runners have advantage at beginner level, corp seemed to win between me and my gf until we started playing more aggressively and stopped being scared to run face down stuff
On June 01 2013 13:08 Loving Memory wrote: I don't think I understand this game. My brother just absolutely smashed me while we were playing the beginner set with Jinteki vs. Shaper. It seems like the Shaper just grew stronger and stronger and eventually just blew through everything Jinteki could put up using a Magnum Opus fueled Crypsis. How am I supposed to deal with that?
Especially at the beginner levels runner generally has a higher winrate than corp. The better you get that margin decreases significantly, there are many competitive players that prefer to play corp over runner.
You also picked Jinteki which is one of the more difficult factions to play, and when you don't do it right it feels like your ice are worthless once the runner has his breakers.
As for your actual question, the easiest way to deal with Crypsis is to build towers in front of your most vital servers. Crypsis needs virus tokens to get through ice, the maximum amount of virus tokens a runner can put on per turn is 4. This will ensure that the runner can only run once a turn or even never (if you wipe those counters).
Wiping virus counters will ensure that the runner will never be able to get through your ice while you just build economy from assets which don't require clicks. Once corp has a lot of money over the runner the corp becomes in control of the game and the runner will find it difficult to play effectively. Corp can just keep install more ice until it is impossible for the crypsis only runner to reach your agendas which you can just safely advance. Once you are 2 points from victory and the runner has painstakingly built up enough resources to run, throw down a junebug and watch him cry when he hits it.
Curious that you find runners have advantage at beginner level, corp seemed to win between me and my gf until we started playing more aggressively and stopped being scared to run face down stuff
Generally beginners run shaper, and beginner corps tend to wait too long to score their agendas where it gets to the point where shaper just waits for the corp to put down an agenda and the runner can just get it.
When I first started play, especially with just the core set, Runner typically won. Corp have very limited options early on, esp when it comes to agendas.
sluggaslamoo's Start-of-Turn Effects --> sluggaslamoo's Personal Workshop removes 1 power marker from Femme Fatale :::==============================::: => Chaos Theory (sluggaslamoo) has woken up. They have 23 ¥ and 4 ⌚ for this turn. +++ Processing. Please Hold... sluggaslamoo targets 'Card' ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #1 to prep with Vamp. --> sluggaslamoo uses Vamp's ability to starts a run on HQ. --- zealios does not rez approached ICE sluggaslamoo's Successful Run Effects --> Vamp triggers to Lose 12 ¥. --> Vamp triggers to force zealios to Lose 12 ¥. --> Vamp triggers to Gain 1 Tags. --> Vamp triggers to Trash Vamp. :::==============================::: Chaos Theory has successfully run the HQ server Chaos Theory has jacked out of their run on the HQ server ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #2 and trashes All-nighter to use its ability in order to gain 2 ⌚. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #3 and trashes All-nighter to use its ability in order to gain 2 ⌚. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #4 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #5 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #6 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #7 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #8 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. => Chaos Theory (sluggaslamoo) has gone to sleep for the day. Turn 25: zealios
<sluggaslamoo> let me know before you decide to trash workshop <sluggaslamoo> because i can still install before you trash ==zealios's Start-of-Turn Effects=== --> zealios performs the turn's mandatory draw. :::==============================::: => The offices of Haas-Bioroid (zealios) are now open for business. They have 0 ¥ and 3 ⌚ for this
turn. ⌚ zealios uses Click #1 to install a card. --> zealios activates Haas-Bioroid to Gain 1 ¥. ⌚ zealios uses Click #2 and receives 1 ¥. ⌚ zealios uses Click #3 and receives 1 ¥. => Haas-Bioroid (zealios) has reached CoB (Close of Business hours). Turn 26: sluggaslamoo
sluggaslamoo's Start-of-Turn Effects --> sluggaslamoo's Personal Workshop removes 1 power marker from Femme Fatale :::==============================::: => Chaos Theory (sluggaslamoo) has woken up. They have 11 ¥ and 4 ⌚ for this turn. :::Reminder::: Chaos Theory is Tagged! sluggaslamoo targets 'Card' +++ Processing. Please Hold... ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #1 to prep with Infiltration. sluggaslamoo attempts to expose target card. You peeked at Adonis Campaign. You are not currently jacked-in. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #2 to activate Remote Server in order to start a run on Remote. sluggaslamoo targets 'Card' --- zealios does not rez approached ICE sluggaslamoo targets 'Card' --- zealios does not rez approached ICE sluggaslamoo targets 'Card' sluggaslamoo paid 3 ¥ to ⏏ Adonis Campaign Chaos Theory has jacked out of their run on the Remote server ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #3 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #4 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. => Chaos Theory (sluggaslamoo) has gone to sleep for the day. Turn 27: zealios
==zealios's Start-of-Turn Effects=== --> zealios performs the turn's mandatory draw. :::==============================::: => The offices of Haas-Bioroid (zealios) are now open for business. They have 3 ¥ and 3 ⌚ for this
turn. ⌚ zealios uses Click #1 and receives 1 ¥. ⌚ zealios uses Click #2 and receives 1 ¥. ⌚ zealios uses Click #3 and pays 5 ¥ to initiate Hedge Fund. --> zealios uses Hedge Fund's ability to gain 9 ¥. => Haas-Bioroid (zealios) has reached CoB (Close of Business hours). Turn 28: sluggaslamoo
sluggaslamoo's Start-of-Turn Effects --> sluggaslamoo's Personal Workshop removes 1 power marker from Femme Fatale :::==============================::: => Chaos Theory (sluggaslamoo) has woken up. They have 8 ¥ and 4 ⌚ for this turn. :::Reminder::: Chaos Theory is Tagged! ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #1 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #2 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #3 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #4 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. => Chaos Theory (sluggaslamoo) has gone to sleep for the day. Turn 29: zealios
==zealios's Start-of-Turn Effects=== --> zealios performs the turn's mandatory draw. :::==============================::: => The offices of Haas-Bioroid (zealios) are now open for business. They have 9 ¥ and 3 ⌚ for this
turn. ⌚ zealios uses Click #1 to install a card. --> zealios activates Haas-Bioroid to Gain 1 ¥. ⌚ zealios uses Click #2 and paid 1 ¥ to advance a card. ⌚ zealios uses Click #3 and pays 1 ¥ to initiate Trick of Light. zealios uses the ability of Trick of Light. zealios moves 1 Advancement marker(s) from Card to Card zealios moves 1 Advancement marker(s) from Card to Card zealios scores Project Vitruvius and receives 2 agenda point(s) => Haas-Bioroid (zealios) has reached CoB (Close of Business hours). Turn 30: sluggaslamoo
sluggaslamoo's Start-of-Turn Effects --> sluggaslamoo's Personal Workshop removes 1 power marker from Femme Fatale :::==============================::: => Chaos Theory (sluggaslamoo) has woken up. They have 8 ¥ and 4 ⌚ for this turn. :::Reminder::: Chaos Theory is Tagged! ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #1 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #2 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #3 to activate Data Leak Reversal in order to trash 1 cards from zealios's
R&D. You are not currently jacked-in. ⌚ sluggaslamoo uses Click #4 to activate Archives in order to start a run on Archives. sluggaslamoo liberates False Lead and receives 1 agenda point(s) sluggaslamoo liberates Accelerated Beta Test and receives 2 agenda point(s) sluggaslamoo liberates False Lead and receives 1 agenda point(s) sluggaslamoo liberates Private Security Force and receives 2 agenda point(s) sluggaslamoo wins the game! <zealios> gg Please wait. Submitting Game Stats... Thanks for playing. Please submit any bugs or feature requests on github. --
I thought it was really interesting about the commentators saying how if you are good at the game and therefore know how to manage your econ you should use "stronger together". Ironically "stronger together" has by far the worst winrate with 32% while "engineering the future" has by far the highest with 52%. Amazing how extra 1 credit per turn makes a huge difference.
Also the new NBN identity is statistically a lot stronger than the old which is surprising, but I don't know if that's because the new cards are making NBN stronger overall, causing the statistics to skew a bit.
Andro by far the strongest, with Gabe trailing behind second this is no surprise with HB being so strong, and Crim being good against HB. Shaper by far the weakest, with CT only slightly better than Kate, no surprise given the FA meta though. This may completely change in weeks to come.
I feel like the cards from each expansion make up the identities. The new NBN came with cards that actually helped its identity (small deck, fewer agenda, fast advance) so players know what to build towards. Old NBN was a bit lackluster since there wasn't much you can use your recurring credits on. There's still a dearth of good trace Ice.
Glad that Criminals are getting a lot of love on OCTGN but surprised that Andro is beat out Gabe and that both are ahead of Noise. hurr hurr, let's just hope that Noise is just too boring that people have moved away from it. Then again Data Leak Reversal means that any Runner can mill the Corp now, it's no longer exclusive to just Noise.
I played at a LGS today, just a fun get together with other people in Portland area. It's just my local players so not much to say about the overall meta worldwide, but there was not as many people testing new NBN cards as I thought there would be. Everyone was running 3 eli in everything. Everyone was running R&D interface in everything.(except for the noise player, medium was still there of course)
I had a pretty amusing play where I stimhacked what I was assuming was a 3 point agenda server with 3 ice on it, I had full rig, but.... stimhack was the last card in my hand. on my third click. I had the game locked down but I just threw it away cause I wasn't paying attention. I guess I could have asked to draw a card real quick as my 3rd click then make the run, but yeah I was pretty amused, and just rage picked up my cards argghghhhghghg
Bah i thought it was for android. That would be sweet. They really need to release a TCG where you can play local with friends on each of your phones/ tablets.
either way this sounds pretty cool i may try and download the program. between me and my brother we have been collecting for probably 20 years. My brother collected from beta until mirage and i collected on and off from mirage until about a year or 2 ago, i still play i just havent bought any cards recently.
I'd like to know where this theme came from, or if it was created just for netrunner. Also an alternative tutorial for those with short attention spans and just want hype.
On June 02 2013 14:30 Executor1 wrote: Bah i thought it was for android. That would be sweet. They really need to release a TCG where you can play local with friends on each of your phones/ tablets.
either way this sounds pretty cool i may try and download the program. between me and my brother we have been collecting for probably 20 years. My brother collected from beta until mirage and i collected on and off from mirage until about a year or 2 ago, i still play i just havent bought any cards recently.
FutureProof is available globally on Amazon I think now. I think the first run was US only, but when they restocked it became global as I just tried again a week later and bought two copies off the same vendor.
Me: Read title. Read 1/2 the article. Picked up phone, loaded playstore to search for the game. Didnt find, so i googled to see if i could scan. Realized the games name was Android: Netrunner.
On June 05 2013 11:20 Malpractice.248 wrote: Me: Read title. Read 1/2 the article. Picked up phone, loaded playstore to search for the game. Didnt find, so i googled to see if i could scan. Realized the games name was Android: Netrunner.
Saddened
It is still in the realm of possibility, think it might be a while though.
On June 05 2013 11:20 Malpractice.248 wrote: Me: Read title. Read 1/2 the article. Picked up phone, loaded playstore to search for the game. Didnt find, so i googled to see if i could scan. Realized the games name was Android: Netrunner.
Saddened
ahaha XD It's still a good game and you can play for free online. npnp
Would love if this game was mobile although the format isn't really mobile friendly, the games aren't in that 5-15 minute time window that the mobile market shoots for, like ascension, etc.
Also FFG has not explored the mobile/digital market at all, which is a bummer because I would love to play Lotr, Game of Thrones, or Netrunner.
I have the core pack, and I was really wondering what packs I should consider.
From what I have read, What lies ahead is mandatory (agendas), then expansion 3,5, and 6 are loaded with good cards (which is not always a good thing, as it also means power creep), expansion 2 is necessary for Jinteki and expansion 4 is just weird.
Also, what about completing the core set? There are 55 cards that only appear twice in the core set, and for 12$ (roughly the price of a pack) I can complete them. It's 55 cards for 12$, so overall an okay deal, except that I don't get any new card.
It's worth completing the core set. There are a lot of cards you only get 2 of that you really, really want 3 of in certain decks. you can get away with 2 of the 1 per set cards, but not 2 of the 2 per set cards so two core boxes is your best bet. Plus that gives you spares to have a couple of decks running at the same time with some of the same basic cards (hedge funds, neutral cards etc)
I recommend getting at least 2-3 boosters. as mentioned, what lies ahead is mandatory. I would also suggest cyber exodus- personal workshop and testrun are both 5 star cards and commercialisation is pretty much mandatory to building weyland these days.
From there it's a tossup between trace amount and future proof. The former is kind of necessary to playing jinteki thanks to fetal and the secondary identity. The latter gives you the tools to make a real, smooth playing NBN FA deck.
Of the two, I think FP is the stronger set overall, but jinteki is loads of fun so it's a hard choice.
On June 06 2013 15:58 fezvez wrote: I have the core pack, and I was really wondering what packs I should consider.
From what I have read, What lies ahead is mandatory (agendas), then expansion 3,5, and 6 are loaded with good cards (which is not always a good thing, as it also means power creep), expansion 2 is necessary for Jinteki and expansion 4 is just weird.
Also, what about completing the core set? There are 55 cards that only appear twice in the core set, and for 12$ (roughly the price of a pack) I can complete them. It's 55 cards for 12$, so overall an okay deal, except that I don't get any new card.
There is no evidence of power creep in this game, if that is what you are worried about.
I feel like maybe you have a different definition of that term than I do, and I see people say "power creep" all the time. To me every game with expansions has power creep on some scale. What matters is what that scale is. If all of your core set cards were useless after Creation and Control came out I would agree there is a sign of power creep, but right now that clearly isn't the case, most of my decks are built with tons of core set cards, and I went out of my way to get 3 copies. Power creep to me as a "Bad thing" well I don't know an example of it being bad, but Magic's creatures nowadays are clearly better than the creatures from 10 years ago, the lead designer is pushing creature combat. This has actually helped the game grow, so it's hard to argue it's a bad thing.
You are still missing out on the 1x cards by buying that pack of 2x cards. You probably will want 3x copies of the 1x cards from the core set eventually, so buying that pack is just making you buy things 4-5 times in the long run.. Honestly, I suggest getting multiple core sets if you enjoy playing the game and want to take it really serious with deckbuilding and such. The good news is that the game is really enjoyable, even without buying anything at all, although tournaments might be a little rough. I recommend getting core, playing for awhile, finding out what your local scene is like and if you have people to play with, then decide to expand your collection or not.
Also 1x of each data pack is a must for deck building for me at least. You have been lead the right direction mostly on which data packs are good to start out with. 1,3 are really good, (5 is just ok imo, Kati is not as essential as some of the other cards, 6 is good but just for 1 card, Eli is really one of the best ice right now). Honestly all of them have at least 2-3 cards that I use sometimes or in one of my decks. Some of the packs are better for factions than others, like 6 has lots of good NBN cards and 3 has good cards for shaper, 2 has good cards for Jinteki etc. So you might play and see what factions you want to play, then go from there.
I would absolutely get What Lies Ahead no matter what you do, as you said it's essential with it's agendas.
On June 05 2013 18:06 BlueBird. wrote: Would love if this game was mobile although the format isn't really mobile friendly, the games aren't in that 5-15 minute time window that the mobile market shoots for, like ascension, etc.
Also FFG has not explored the mobile/digital market at all, which is a bummer because I would love to play Lotr, Game of Thrones, or Netrunner.
FFG does have Elder Sign: Omens on Ipad, but so far none of their living card games. For a high potential tablet CCG, Hex looks promising, even if it is a Magic clone.
looks interesting. Can't wait to see what the cleaners does XD
C&C looks like its going really balance corp out allowing them to build up the money they desperately need while still doing actions, my only problem with it, is that HB is going to be by far the strongest still. I think the designer just really likes HB.
Really happy to see multiple sub ice for Jinteki, its got really annoying that Jinteki Tower of Pain became completely useless with a couple icebreakers.
Hoping Dagger is an AI Icebreaker, that would be awesome.
Prepaid voice pad is going to make Crim insanely strong, I don't think the other factions would have a use for it though. With voicepads you can use inside job to gain 3 credits, then use record reconstruction to get it back and gain 1 credit. Rinse and repeat. Not to mention dirty laundry.
Kit looks awesome, it will give shaper the early game strength it desperately needs. You can just open with GordianBlade and not worry about Corp getting 3 Melange runs for free behind some crappy ice.
Paricia is another one, the worst part about shaper right now is its ability to trash assets in the early game, that if Corp gets some good economy ice early on the runner is screwed. Shaper is going to become really strong just with this.
Omnidrive is like an insane version of Toolbox, its not even a console so you can have 3 of them.
Escher looks useless for 3 cost. Chum is the only ice I can think of that this would be useful for. If your crim and have inside job maybe, but mehhhhhhhh.
"Hard at work" looks completely useless, you can't trash it, it costs 5 and its worse than Kati or Armitage. It shouldn't use up a click imo.
Record Reconstructor looks like it would be a better card for Anarch, but I guess its good still for when you have Mopus and run into Rototurret on your first turn.
Tyr's hand is just lol. Guaranteed brain damage ftw. I feel like this belongs to Jinteki though, although its 1 influence, so I guess its fine anyway.
Overall I'm really happy Shaper is getting a massive boost, its my favorite runner faction but the glaring weaknesses in the early game has prevented me from playing them and it looks like those issues aren't going to be so bad anymore. Corp looks like its not going to be broke in half their games, which will make a huge difference.
Escher seems powerful to me, especially if your able to keep track of what the face down ice probably are. Interesting card, you can make the corps strong rezzed ice unimportant, and move all the weak ice or unrezzed ice on servers you want to run, forcing corp to spend a lot of $ redefining r&d or what not. Really punish those players that didn't trash their enigmas vs your yog . Against some corp decks snd strategies it wont be very good yes. You cant use inside job with escher it's an event. I can see this being really strong while splashing the anarch breakers I'm shaper, since you can stack the low strength ice like enigma, ice wall, roto turret on r&d and move away things like tollbooth. It's also probably useless sometimes but something as unique as moving every single piece of ice the corp has is worth a shot.
My new CT Deck, efficient breakers, draw heavy. I run Crescentus to punish players who use Tollbooth/Hadrians and other annoying big ice, basically just leave them in Workshop and then buy it before I use it.
I'm having trouble against NBN when they get clumps of Astros with Sansan and win in 0 turns, but apart from that seem to be doing ok.
Event (12) 3x Diesel 3x Infiltration 3x Quality Time 3x Test Run
Hardware (11) 3x Dinosaurus 2x Plascrete Carapace 3x R&D Interface 3x The Personal Touch
Program (11) 1x Corroder ●● 3x Crescentus ●●● 3x Magnum Opus 2x Mimic ●● 2x Yog.0 ●●
Resource (6) 3x Mr. Li ●●●●●● 3x Personal Workshop
As it stands Mr. Li kind of stands out even if it has been very useful its kind of overkill.
Some viable options I guess are - 3x vamp - 3x compromised employee +3 - 2x ice carver - 3x crash space, frees room for plascrete - another corroder +4 - 3x parasite
I dunno, I don't really know what I need, I think parasite is the best choice as my early game is very weak right now.
I had a close call when I hit a Janus and copped 3 brain damage, he didn't seem to have any 4str codegates and he had 3 Janus's so I installed an 8 strength dinomimic and won.
My last deck has a higher winrate so far, but I didn't like it, when my all-nighters and dataleaks were at the bottom, or if corp had good economy it was gg. I'm contemplating a hybrid or demolition run though.
This deck is much more straightforward and that puts me at peace somehow, I feel like if I learn how to early game better it will become very strong, I just don't like being put into situations where I have to give up. Being able to run without paying a cent is great, so I can just build up my economy while running, instead of going broke every time. This might make Vamp a bit more viable again if I put it back in, although Crescentus is doing a decent job so far.
Here's my Corp deck, though my corp is pretty terrible compared to my runner. Tag heavy Weyland T&B, the idea is that tags and DRT will slow down the runner while I get my scorched. If I get 3 DRT's and midseason, its basically gg for runner, if I get midseason and 2x atlas its gg, on top of the usual posted bounty then scorch.
So far I haven't had any problem getting midseason replacements off, but I will probably look at having 2-3 posted bounties if it ever becomes a problem.
Bought Future Proof via express from Amazon to beat everyone to the chase, usually the datapacks arrive about a month or two later than the US. Stupid courier faked a delivery saying "delivery attempted" at 11:30am while leaving no card, when I was in my room next to the front door the whole time. I rang and luckily it was left at the local post office, usually with DHL it ends up in a warehouse in woop woop but this time they subcontracted to aussie post, thank god. I couldn't wait to get it so I ran to the post office, opened it up and immediately built my new decks (which have since completely changed since the last post haha).
Then the OP tells me that the datapack was already in store in the city for half the price T_T.
On June 15 2013 06:13 BlueBird. wrote: It's only a shaper/HB expansion, no other factions are in it. :/(Kind of sucks because of where HB is right now) .. 3 Shaper identities and 3 HB
They will be releasing another expansion like this for another runner/corp pair after the spin cycle is over.
Professor could be really interesting, but Idk. How many 1 of programs do you want to run...
I don't think Exile is good.
I was looking at one of the cards and in the flavor text there was a quote by the professor, so I was looking forward to seeing it.
I think the Professor and Exile are throwaway identities tbh. Would have been better if The Professor had 15 influence instead of 1. I can only think of Sneakdoor beta and Djinn that you would be satisfied with just one of, and then you can't use any hardware or events :<.
With the new heap install cards I can see these being a bit more powerful but you may as well just use another identity anyway. I think FFG thinks the mechanic is going to be ground breaking, but I really think its going to be situational.
I think heap installing is going to be best with CT. The problem with CT right now is that if you don't draw Workshop with your first Quality Time (provided you werent able to install/testrun mopus first turn), you have to trash a lot of cards you desperately need later on.
I think I'm really looking forward to using Kit the most out of all the spoilers I've seen. Kit and Paricia are going to make Shaper so much better. Its going to be fun having an 8 str yogosaurus and using escher to put all codegates on R&D.
Interesting, I think there is far more than 2 programs I want in Professor, although the consistency is going to be low. So I think the deck will not be as strong as other options, but it will still be interesting. I'm a huge fan of toolbox decks with lots of options, so I am kind of drawn to the identity, despite it possibly being bad. If He had 15 influence he would be an absolutely insane identity, you could squeeze 30 identity out of him. Right now I can get 18 influence of programs I'm interested in out of him, so that makes him about 19 influence with no other abilities, and lower consistency, so not something I'm interested in just yet.
You have 6 tutors, 3 self modifying code, and 3 Test Run, so you have ways to get all your 1x programs out, and ways to get them out of heap if they die as well.
Of course, back to consistency, probably going to be worse than a deck with 3 of everything you want, so he could be really bad . Maybe after spin cycle and more programs comes out?
On June 15 2013 12:31 BlueBird. wrote: Interesting, I think there is far more than 2 programs I want in Professor, although the consistency is going to be low. So I think the deck will not be as strong as other options, but it will still be interesting. I'm a huge fan of toolbox decks with lots of options, so I am kind of drawn to the identity, despite it possibly being bad. If He had 15 influence he would be an absolutely insane identity, you could squeeze 30 identity out of him. Right now I can get 18 influence of programs I'm interested in out of him, so that makes him about 19 influence with no other abilities, and lower consistency, so not something I'm interested in just yet.
You have 6 tutors, 3 self modifying code, and 3 Test Run, so you have ways to get all your 1x programs out, and ways to get them out of heap if they die as well.
Of course, back to consistency, probably going to be worse than a deck with 3 of everything you want, so he could be really bad . Maybe after spin cycle and more programs comes out?
I agree Exile is bad.
Hmmm I'd be interested to know what that 18 influence of programs would be.
Actually I just realised you won't have to face-check with self-modifying code which probably makes the professor a bit better, test-run self modifying code and then get the exact breaker you need when you run. I think still pales in comparison to Kit who can just testrun a gordian blade and can run easily from turn 1 onwards and doesn't take up 2 memory.
Being able to run early reliably is really really important as a runner, if you can't do that, it doesn't really matter what kind of perks you have.
Right now I'm running Crypsis CT just because I lose too many games where I just can't get the breaker I need early enough, sometimes I need to be able to install a Crypsis and run from turn 2 against factions like NBN. I think the Professor would waste too much time with 1 of everything, you would need to tutor everything out which wastes time and tutoring 3 breakers would take forever.
Creation and Control finally spoiled and well, I hope it's on OCTGN within the next 48 hours (crossing fingers). i have a tournament on saturday, and I think C&C will get here in game stores tomorrow, and I need to figure out what to play.
I'm going to finally try making a solid ST HB deck now there's a bunch more ETR bioroid ice, but I'm actually thinking of moving to mainline Weyland with the new money operation, gila hands and more neutral ETR ice to support weyland's woeful pool.
On the runner side not really sure. Everyone seems to be thinking kit, but I want to try hardware kate and perhaps a bit of exile first. There are some funny things you can do there. My favourite is testrun a femme then sac it to scavenge to reinstall it with scavenge 3 credit femme ooooyeah
Got my set today, need to figure out what the hell to do with all these new toys. 0.o I wish it was out on Octgn .
Anybody have any thoughts on HB : Next Design.
The 3 free installs seem strong for rushing agendas but I'm still going to need to pay to rez the ice, and I'll be significantly shorter of money without ETF's free 1 credit a turn. Idk.. also, I'm going to be missing out on 3 influence.
Pretty sure I'll be trying out Exile as soon as I get my grubby hands on a C&C set. I've got some crazy plans for a "mill your entire deck, take all of the good cards, then AR Lab Access your deck back together so you don't die to damage" kind of thing in my head. No idea if it will actually work in the end, but eh.
Also, The Source and potentially Chakana might help slow down the huge amounts of fast advance that's out there these days.
On the Corp side, not sure what I'm going to do yet. I don't really want to play HB, as it's what everyone is playing. But that core identity... sooo strong T_T
The 3 free installs seem strong for rushing agendas but I'm still going to need to pay to rez the ice, and I'll be significantly shorter of money without ETF's free 1 credit a turn. Idk.. also, I'm going to be missing out on 3 influence.
Go very ice heavy and run beta test/pet project/operation fast advance. Use el-cheapo cards as much as possible to leverage your ice. Haas Arcology AI for example is a nightmare machine for the runner.
So I was playing with my gf to try out the new cards and make a deck for the tournament on saturday, and same old thing with account siphon is just mean, . She conceded and said this game is dumb now after I account siphoned the 4th time in a row. You can't even defend HQ cause your too poor. :/
yeah, I think you just have to mass defend HQ against crim or anyone who doesn't show influence early. There are ways of defending against syphons now though-
>use server upgrades like rhur, sansan or whathave you. when they syphon you, rez the upgrades before they trigger the syphon so they only make a little and you get your stuff up and running. If you do it right they probably won't have enough to kill the upgrade since they'll be relying on the syphon gold to make the run worthwhile
>Tom Haas is an amazing counter syphon, since you can basically store credits on him in a remote that the runner can't get rid of without running that remote first- letting you rez the ice on it, defeating the point of most syphon runs. hilarious when they syphon you, then run the remote, you rez tom, pop the credits and rez an ichi or something that they then have to facecheck through.
> put tracers on HQ like flare or burkebugs that they'll be tempted to let run, then pump it to stop the syphon going off.
> splash closed accounts. It doesn't help in those critical situations, but it stops the constant syphon-syphon-syphon recursion style of play.
Here's my latest brewing, 4 decks I can build from the same pool that should all be interesting and fun to play. I want these to be strong enough for reasonable competition, but they're obviously not honed for ultra-top level play. (hurr durr ETF)
Agenda (10) 3x Accelerated Beta Test 1x Mandatory Upgrades 3x Project Vitruvius 3x Sentinel Defense Program
Asset (6) 3x Haas Arcology AI 3x Melange Mining Corp
Ice (19) 3x Chum ●●● 3x Eli 1.0 3x Heimdall 1.0 2x Heimdall 2.0 2x Sensei ●● 3x Viktor 1.0 3x Viktor 2.0
Operation (6) 3x Bioroid Efficiency Research 3x Hedge Fund
Upgrade (8) 2x Akitaro Watanabe ●●●● 3x Red Herrings ●●●●●● 3x Tyr's Hand __________________________________________________________________________
This one is all about the ice and making it as scary as possible. All my assets are designed to be cheapos and either directly give me economy benefits or strong tools for little cost. no ados/eves because they'll drain too much money away that needs to be banked up for ice rezzing. I want to actually use my beta tests here, recur red herrings/melanges/tyrs with vitruvius and sentinel just makes that viktor 2.0 infintely nastier. I might trade it out with efficiency committee for use with melange, but eh.
The ice suite is basically just all the ETR bioroids. There are so many runner tools for soaking now that ETR is just necessary for your ice to do stuff. ST synergises really well with them in that it forces them to either click (very risky) or pay through the nose to get in.
Also, is it just me or is Hass arcology AI retarded broken? more or less a sansan you can use to bluff with and doesn't rely on you sitting on like 8-10 credits to make it work. too gud.
Operation (12) 3x Beanstalk Royalties 3x Green Level Clearance ●●● 3x Hedge Fund 3x Successful Demonstration ●●●
Upgrade (2) 2x Simone Diego __________________________________________________________________________
This is my take on neo-money weyland. with bastion/datapike around now weyland can actually run a good suite of ETR ice without using all its influence to do so. That means I can use influence to make money. Joy
I'm running an absurd number of cheap agendas here, basically because I'm going to use them to bait out tricks and force run after run rather than playing into the runner's game of stalling out into a super turn where one run nets 3-5 points of agendas. As much as possible, the agendas are about increasing my money and consequently my ability to set the pace. I'm probably going to be drawing a lot in this deck, trying to power through operations and get 3 deep walls of etr ice everywhere.
Tom haas is there to provide bait and a cash bank if I run up against eco denial, Simone to help swing that economy tempo even further by letting me advance for free and keeping my resources high.
This is a bit of an odd one. I think it'd be super fun to play but not entirely sure how good it will be. The core theme is 1 use stuff + Levy AR labs access. Chug through 80% of your deck by constant drawing and event playing, then Levy everything back in there to keep your tempo going. The main thing holding crim temp down is running out of your good events- inside jobs, syphons, shutdowns etc. This solves the problem both with SOT and levy, they all just come back.
Unfortunately to have this power I've ditched most of my ability to apply huge threat, but gabe's innate ability plus makers eye will keep people worried, hopefully.
One cute thing I'll note is SOT makes splashing 1 of levy and running into damage with it in hand safe, since you can just recur it from your trash XD.
This is my take on replikate with the new stuff. Obv I'm focusing on events with gabe and hardware here.
The main problem with shaper is they have to burn a lot of their money getting set up, so this deck is build around mitigating that, getting the good ol' crypsis threat on the board early then just slowly building money while cheaply installing some hardware each turn. I'm vascilating between dinosaurus to put dagger/corroder onto and the toolbox for more generalised power.
On July 26 2013 17:09 BlueBird. wrote: So I was playing with my gf to try out the new cards and make a deck for the tournament on saturday, and same old thing with account siphon is just mean, . She conceded and said this game is dumb now after I account siphoned the 4th time in a row. You can't even defend HQ cause your too poor. :/
It wasn't like you couldn't do that before with dejavu, and I run 3 dejavus and 3 parasites in my Gabe deck and its ridiculously strong against non super server corps.
But Same Old Thing is going to be the reason I will be playing NBN. Sure SOT your account siphon. Closed accounts, now you just have 2 tags and can't break through any ice. Marked/PADs gets my money back, while I psychographics an agenda every turn, or just scorched.
Also Commercialization Weyland is another one. SOT Account Siphon, thanks I will just commercialisation, double scorched.
If HB has enough money and a PSF, get account siphoned, gabe has 4 cards, rez director haas or biotic labor gain 1 extra click, deal 5 meat damage. :D
SOT Account siphon is very risky against a corp who knows how to play because you are always going to have at least a tag.
Basically if a Gabe does SOT account siphon, I'm going to closed accounts + trash katie/armitage. Then after that he will have a very tough time doing anything useful for the next 4 turns. That is unless he has account siphon, new angeles, and sot and the right breaker in his starting hand, then any corp is pretty much fucked, but that would be rare.
Slugg If you get account siphoned to 0 you can't close accounts + trash something without passive income.
Don't get me wrong guys I know there are cards/ways to play that are good vs siphon but it's still a frustrating card to play against..
Also assuming with these meat damage counters like SE and PSF vs decks running siphon that they don't have plascrete protection up, which is usually not a safe assumption, I know that good players will usually set up plascrete protection before floating tags.
In other news, I played in the local tournament here in Portland on saturday, I played Sahashara(sp?) Noise, and HB ETF. It was the smallest tournament ever and we only had 3 rounds. Last tournament I played in we had 18 people, then we had 25+ for regionals and then we got 6 people for this tournament(also this tournament was using the new tournament rules). I played vs bgg alexfrog rd 1 and we split 1-1(we both won as corp on the back of san-san, he also crushed me with an Ichi 2.0, and I played absolutely awful as runner, applying no pressure), and then I won my other 4 games against the other 2 players. Me and alexfrog both finished 5-1 in games, with 10 prestige, but he had better strength of schedule cause he played a 4 prestige player in rd 3 instead of a 2 prestige player(we tied in our heads up 7-2 each way). Yay for small tournament cause I got second place and a season 2 playmat for 5$, but I don't feel super accomplished cause there were only 6 people ;/. Also two second places in both of my netrunner tournaments so far I hope this isn't a recurring trend. I really hope next month has a better turnout and this one was just small cause people were burnt out after our recent regionals. I'd hate to see this game drop off the face of the earth suddenly.
Honestly if I had known the tournament was only going to be six people and not a serious tournament by any means I probably would have built Next Design and Kit, cause they seem to be fun. I did see someone get blown out by escher, that card seems powerful in certain situations, but again it's situational. Because it was a small tournament we didn't enforce the "no scouting" rule. We were able to watch peoples games, one player was using basically all creation and control stuff, and the HB deck he used was entertaining, using things like Bioroid Effeciency research and such but he only got 2 prestige, untested decks and all ;/.
New cards are up on Octgn, so I can actually experiment now, looking forward to playing a bit.
On July 30 2013 07:42 BlueBird. wrote: Slugg If you get account siphoned to 0 you can't close accounts + trash something without passive income.
On July 29 2013 15:06 sluggaslamoo wrote: But Same Old Thing is going to be the reason I will be playing NBN. Sure SOT your account siphon. Closed accounts, now you just have 2 tags and can't break through any ice. Marked/PADs gets my money back, while I psychographics an agenda every turn, or just scorched.
Honestly I'm thinking of baiting out situations like that. Even with no assets and just click for credits, I find runners much easier to beat when they are tagged with NBN. Plenty of times I've been in dire straits against Gabe but they just keep their tags, and I just do my math and score out agendas with psychographics with the exact amount of credits + agenda counters.
alix and server diagnostics are sleeper hits to me. also i made a stronger together deck which is fun times. howler is super scary.
kit is annoying the first few games, but easy enough to deal with. exile decks will be interesting, but i tried to pilot one and i dont understand the timing at all. it can be done, but its not for me.
dirty laundry in andromeda/noise is super super good.
atman is amazing. favorite card by far in expansion. my runner deck is currently crypsis/atman/inti/faerie for 100% of its breakers, and it works very well. (kate) - it was just crypsis and atman and did fine also (andromeda)
I feel like the corp wants to be looking at their icepool now for more than just the ususal gate/barrier/sentry balance, now you want to have a balance of ice going 1/2/3/4/5/6 in strength to mess with darwin and atman. Can't run 3ofs bastion, eli and data raven in the same pool safely anymore for example. In other news, ice wall just gets even better. Already probably the best ice in the game.
I just picked this up and try to get the hang of it. As it's kinda new in Germany, it's not so easy to find IRL players. In case anyone wants to pair up with a newbie, you can find me on OCTGN as Argoth1.
I'm stumped on what to do with a corp deck nowadays.
For runner, I've sold out and just gone standard Andromeda (except I'm not a big fan of "Tag-me" style, but I'm beginning to think that I should be a fan (and run Plascretes) just so I don't waste a bunch of time when I finally run into a Data Raven)
However, Corp just seems so... lackluster? I've tried Jinteki, but I felt like my only real win condition was to flatline the runner. I'm now trying a Weyland deck, but I'm afraid whenever I run into somebody playing some Emergency Shutdowns that my big Hadrian's Wall gets derezzed. I dunno, just not sure what to make of corp right now, as they seem to be on the losing end at the higher end of the skill level (which I'm not even at, lulz)
Edit: A lot of this also has to do with card choices. Do I run Melange? You've got to protect it basically for two turns to get any use out of it (install one turn, use the second) and you know a good runner is just going to kill it ASAP. PADs feel underwhelming, as do all of the HB assets that are basically PAD campaigns.
And I'd like to start playing on OCTGN as well, just to see outside of my own meta (which is mostly me and my Jinteki playing friend, what a meanie!)
I'm stumped on what to do with a corp deck nowadays.
For runner, I've sold out and just gone standard Andromeda (except I'm not a big fan of "Tag-me" style, but I'm beginning to think that I should be a fan (and run Plascretes) just so I don't waste a bunch of time when I finally run into a Data Raven)
However, Corp just seems so... lackluster? I've tried Jinteki, but I felt like my only real win condition was to flatline the runner. I'm now trying a Weyland deck, but I'm afraid whenever I run into somebody playing some Emergency Shutdowns that my big Hadrian's Wall gets derezzed. I dunno, just not sure what to make of corp right now, as they seem to be on the losing end at the higher end of the skill level (which I'm not even at, lulz)
Edit: A lot of this also has to do with card choices. Do I run Melange? You've got to protect it basically for two turns to get any use out of it (install one turn, use the second) and you know a good runner is just going to kill it ASAP. PADs feel underwhelming, as do all of the HB assets that are basically PAD campaigns.
I feel like playing corp is a lot like when you get to understand magic a bit better. When you're starting, you get attached to stuff- like, that big legendary creature or rare card, you feel amazing when you get it out and it wins you the game, and you're terrified of losing it to a doomblade etc.
As you learn to play more. you start to value effiency and combinations of cards more than individual card power and you become less attached to things- you're happy to play out that rare to clear their removal spells so you can play a common that will actually end up doing more for you.
Corp is like that- it's about making each card pay for itself, which they rarely ever seem to do on their own, but if you play it right they'll manage quite effecitvely. It's about understanding not just what a card can do for you, but what getting rid of it does to the runner.
So to use your example of melange- sure, the runner will run it and kill it, but that costs them money and clicks if you defend it with even a small amount of ice, you're essentially trading a click (to install) for a click (to run) + the credits to break your ice + any tricks they have to use up to get in + a credit to trash melange.
Pretty good, right?
Now, the great thing about melange is that they *have* to run it. You can't let a corp melange for more than a couple of turns and expect to win the game, so in my head melange reads something like 'install, the runner loses 1 click and 7 credits next turn' rather than what it actually does. You can use that info to plan- make them run a melange and then immediately install an agenda while they're low on cash.
It gets better: because you install it face down- they don't know it's a melange until you rez it and use it. So not only are you putting on guaranteed financial pressure, you're putting on psychological pressure- is it a melange? is it a 3 for 2 agenda? is it an edge of world?
You force one turn of hard choices for them and they lose no matter what they do: If they run it, they burn a load of credits and time for no cost to you. If they don't run it you start raking in money and they still have to spend money to trash it or you're going to get an insurmountable lead- this is the power of melange, they can't really just choose to leave it there unless they're pretty sure they're going to win in the next 3-4 turns.
You can even install it in the open to bluff, or install it to fake an agenda install and make them waste their tricks late game even if you don't need the money.
The drip economy assets- pad, eve etc- fulfill a similar but slightly different role. They have their money drain effect built in- a high trash cost- so you can put them in the open to drain money from the runner. Remember, the goal of these assets is mostly to try and force favourable trades with the runner's economy. If you can keep them spending credits early to clear your assets, then they won't have those credits to play out crypsis, liberated accounts, dinosaurus or what have you. The absolute ideal situation for me is to play a pad campaign in the open and have them run and trash it before it was rezzed- essentially being '1 click: the runner loses 1 click and 4 credits'.
You can use this to psychologically profile your opponent as well- install your pad campaign and don't rez it. Do they run it? if yes, put down assets to make them waste clicks on critical turns. If no, you can try putting out a 3 for 2 or 3 for 1 agenda in the open and scoring it under their nose. Your cards are valuable because they are tools that let you evaluate your opponent and control their game far more than they are valuable for their stated purpose.
As with any tools, sometimes you have to pick the right tool for the right job- rezzing a hadrian's wall against a criminal deck is often a futile endeavour. So instead, use the face down ice to bluff a new server or something. If you think you can stop them getting into HQ- a hadrians on one entry and a nice set of ice on the archives ought to do it- then by all means get it running. If you think emergency shutdowns might be incoming though, perhaps only rez your smaller, more efficient ice. Don't play the runner's game- you set the agenda, and force them to deal with your choices.
Ultimately playing corp successfully is about money. Understanding how much it costs the runner to do business with you, how you can make them shell out the most for the least cost to you. Face down cards- be they ice or assets- are basically your most powerful tools. It doesn't matter what's printed on the front a lot of the time- if you put a pad campaign face down in your remote, the runner is going to spend just as many credits running through your ice as if it were an astroscript pilot program- because they probably think that's what it is. That facedown popup window looks awfully like a neural katana or an ichi if you're playing jinteki. You can be sure the runner will pay to avoid the data raven counter if you're playing weyland, even if you're not actually running scorched earth. That ice you haven't been rezzing on RND might just as well be a janus once you have 15 credits available, even if it's only an enigma you haven't rezzed because they have a yog.0 .
Hope this waffling has proved interesting. Playing corp is super fun once you get your head around the idea that even a face down card is powerful and useful and that your 'power cards' are often best used only to provide potential threats, rather than manifesting them (eg- why actually play scorched when the runner has to account for you playing it anyway)
On August 10 2013 03:23 gostunv wrote: Anybody willing to teach me this on OCTGN?
ill add you argoth
my name is gostunv on OCTGN as well.
I'll add you. @ the post above me: Great stuff! This is really helpful and super interesting to a newbie like me. Very good conceptual insights into the idea of how to play this game!
I've been looking forward to buying the base set for this game for a while now as a friend and I have a lot of dead time to kill between projects at work. The base set however is sold out nationwide and it's driving prices up like crazy on amazon. I don't suppose anyone in this thread would have insider information as to when the reprint is expected? The website lists an expected date of Aug 2013, but nothing other than that.
yes, I believe the reprint was supposed to have hit stores within the last week or two. FFG's website has a tracking thingy which updates when sets are being printed/reprinted:
Interesting stuff, I feel like I kind've "knew" some of it, but it's still great to see it written and have what I just kind've guessed at in my deck building be put into words by a more experienced player. I think my corp game could also get better by me becoming slightly more unpredictable, but I'm not sure how to go about that. Maybe watching more games of better players and analyzing their corp actions? Of course, I've also yet to try out my Weyland deck that I've compiled, maybe it runs better than I'm expecting it to!
And of course, a lot of that info is new to me and very helpful indeed!
@Kronen: There's another set of core sets "on the boat." Assuming that they've been there for about 3-4 weeks they should start shipping to stores very soon. I'm actually starting to get a little anxious that Opening Moves won't be here in September because it's not on the boat already!
I think my corp game could also get better by me becoming slightly more unpredictable, but I'm not sure how to go about that.
sometimes you gotta just be a little crazy. Like, Sluggaslamoo who I play against most, puts out 5 for 3 agendas in the open and advances them twice when playing NBN because, like, seriously who does that?
It works every time if you haven't played him before, and he usually outright wins the game from it.
The moment the runner starts expecting things is the moment you should start exploiting that expectation. eg.
'oh a data raven, obviously a tag and bag deck' > run data ravens in fast advance to make them use their plascretes and pay off tags
'that thing you advanced is clearly a trap, no way you thought I wouldn't be able to run that' > put down and advance agendas you both know they can run.
'you're playing HB fast advance, there's no way you'd be running scorched earth in there, so I can sit on a tag for a turn or two' > scorched earth > archived memories> scorched earth > :3
On August 14 2013 11:03 hasuprotoss wrote: I'm stumped on what to do with a corp deck nowadays.
For runner, I've sold out and just gone standard Andromeda (except I'm not a big fan of "Tag-me" style, but I'm beginning to think that I should be a fan (and run Plascretes) just so I don't waste a bunch of time when I finally run into a Data Raven)
However, Corp just seems so... lackluster? I've tried Jinteki, but I felt like my only real win condition was to flatline the runner. I'm now trying a Weyland deck, but I'm afraid whenever I run into somebody playing some Emergency Shutdowns that my big Hadrian's Wall gets derezzed. I dunno, just not sure what to make of corp right now, as they seem to be on the losing end at the higher end of the skill level (which I'm not even at, lulz)
Edit: A lot of this also has to do with card choices. Do I run Melange? You've got to protect it basically for two turns to get any use out of it (install one turn, use the second) and you know a good runner is just going to kill it ASAP. PADs feel underwhelming, as do all of the HB assets that are basically PAD campaigns.
And I'd like to start playing on OCTGN as well, just to see outside of my own meta (which is mostly me and my Jinteki playing friend, what a meanie!)
Corp is actually very strong these days, the thing is it's always about knowing what you can get away with in what situation, and that all comes down to lots and lots of trial and error. On OCTGN corp has caught up in winrate vs Runner, which means that Corp is actually stronger because it counts games from a time when Corp had terrible winrates.
It does feel like your walking on a razors edge for the most part, even when you have been playing for a while. Unlike runner, you often won't get a straight forward victory. You are constantly deceiving the runner to buy time, and will have to pull a rabbit out of the hat to score some your wins.
You also have to look many turns ahead, while Runner reactions are a bit more spontaneous. A couple of times I had to do some hardcore arithmetic looking 3 turns ahead because I could only click for credits and had 2 psychographics, and had to balance rezzing ice to defend vs psycho agendas before he could get them.
The silver lining is that bluffs and traps allow corp to eek out wins in dire situations. The Runner is less capable of doing things like that, sometimes you will just be walled out and there is nothing you can do but build up money while the corp fast advances his agendas, or you will just get flatlined out of nowhere. You will find you'll be in those situations a lot more against good corp players.
I think my corp game could also get better by me becoming slightly more unpredictable, but I'm not sure how to go about that.
sometimes you gotta just be a little crazy. Like, Sluggaslamoo who I play against most, puts out 5 for 3 agendas in the open and advances them twice when playing NBN because, like, seriously who does that?
It works every time if you haven't played him before, and he usually outright wins the game from it.
The moment the runner starts expecting things is the moment you should start exploiting that expectation. eg.
'oh a data raven, obviously a tag and bag deck' > run data ravens in fast advance to make them use their plascretes and pay off tags
'that thing you advanced is clearly a trap, no way you thought I wouldn't be able to run that' > put down and advance agendas you both know they can run.
'you're playing HB fast advance, there's no way you'd be running scorched earth in there, so I can sit on a tag for a turn or two' > scorched earth > archived memories> scorched earth > :3
Basically, punish the runner for forgetting or not playing around cards, and make them play around cards that you are not playing. Punish the runner for running by playing cards that do things other than end the run. The more scared the runner is of running, the less information he has, and the more room you have to sneak things by. Furthermore, the less the runner runs, the more he has to play around, since rather than sitting on 5ish credits, you could have 8+, threatening significantly larger pieces of ice.
Make a note of how the runner plays. Did he check to make sure your Marked accounts wasn't a Breaking News? News in the open, close his accounts if he fails to run. Even a Melange in the open can be good.
Most often you will be playing in a manner that you know the runner could get in the server if he ran it, but he does not know/believe it and is scared to try. Alternatively he could get in, but would be in a very bad spot afterwards.
Today, for example, I kept Hedge Fund, Posted Bounty, False Lead, Scorch, Scorch, leading to a very confused runner who knows I'm playing Snare as I install a False Lead in the open turn 1, and score it turn 2 (Turn 1 of Draw, Hedge, Install, what would you run?).
I don't think Corp is favored at all right now, especially recently, not sure what Octgn numbers your looking at. Look at the numbers for Aug 2 - Aug 13
On August 16 2013 05:48 BlueBird. wrote: I don't think Corp is favored at all right now, especially recently, not sure what Octgn numbers your looking at. Look at the numbers for Aug 2 - Aug 13
I think we will get lots of new spoilers this weekend cause of Gen Con I'm pretty happy :D.
Yep that's to be expected. CnC changed so much stuff, I wouldn't expect corp to be higher right now until they learn how to deal with all the new bullshit that runner can do (clone chip Noise). I admit that I hadn't been looking at stats post CnC.
Just before CnC Corp winrates were slightly higher than Runner for the last 2 months.
I think its hard to justify the balance of Netrunner right now because only two factions have been significantly changed. Things should start to even out once the new cycle releases its first data pack.
The teamcovenant guys have done an unboxing of the first datapack of the new cycle:
Feels like NBN wins this one harder than it won future proof. an incredibly powerful asset, agenda and operation. Dat operation, I mean seriously
For quick reference: 3 cost + 1 extra click. trace 3, if successful look at the runner's hand and trash a number of resources/events in it equal to the amount by which your trace exceeded their link.
So first turn: hedge, play this, pump with basic credits and 2 normal ones. even if they bankrupt themselves you get to trash 2 things, otherwise just get rid of all those inside jobs, account syphons, katie jones, same old things, mr lis, personal workshops, aesops pawn... need I go on?
I think crim comes out ahead for the runner, and jinteki comes up second for the corp with some really cool tools right in the place they needed them, just not as absurdly powerful as the NBN cards.
I mean the best NBN card is only 1 influence, i think it improves all the corp decks. Also Noise got a lot weaker, I've been playing Sahashara noise and it doesn't seem very appealing now, guess I'm gonna have to wait for Roja to come out and make a really agressive anarach deck :D.
yah, with rook you have the opportunity for some really nice eco denial. Reina's problem is going to be getting enough money to get her MU and programs going.
Also, as you say, jackson howard really is a game changer. Stimhackwrote a pretty good article on why.
I'm personally looking to use him to finally kickstart my weyland deck. Drawing 2 cards makes operation economy far more viable, so I can run loads of those. Now weyland can run a huge suite of money granting agendas as well- hostile takeover, corporate war, geothermal fracking- and project atlas to pull out some cards to recur with jackson.
After hours lf trekking to a ghetto magic shop in an adjacent state, I was able to get my hands on a starter set and am about to fire it up this afternoon with a friend of mine :D!!
Just for my reference are there expansions that are considered must-buys? Are they largely corp/runner specific? The reason i ask is ill try to keep an eye out for them on amazon at the 10$ price point, otherwise I'll just have my flgs order them. Thanks for the help!
Each expansion has cards for each faction (except for the recent deluxe expansion that focuses on Shaper and HB). Typically each pack has either 2 or 3 cards per faction and an additional neutral card each for runner and corp.
as far as must buys go, the first thing is really to get a second core set or a set of additional cards from ebay to fill things out. There are a bunch of cards in the core set you really want to be able to run 3 of that you only get 2 of.
I'd recommend playing around with just the core set. If you find the concept fun and enjoyable, consider buying into the game fully- that means getting the expansions out so far (about 60 bucks), a second core (fairly cheap now) and then $15 a month or so keep up to date. It's well worth it if you have the opportunity to play regularly, and it's worth noting that you don't need your friends to also buy in to have people to play against- Especially now, you can make multiple competition viable decks for each side from a set of one of each current expansion and 2 core sets.
yep, if you want to play casually, basically buy a core set and the first expansion pack (what lies ahead). This will give you a pretty solid, self contained game.
However, if you want to be part of a scene (go into your game store and so on), you're going to get stomped consistently if you don't have access to a reasonably full card set. You don't need everything, but you can't get away with just core+WLA any more.
Honestly every set has at least 2-3 really good cards that you want from it. I would see what faction your interested in playing and then pick up the useful sets. If your not interested in playing competitive than just mess around with what you got, and buy what seems interesting, when you feel like it.
I've played a couple of games with the base set with several friends I'm trying to get interested. Per the game's suggestion we've been playing Shaper (Kate MacSomething) vs. Jinteki.
Is it just me or is the base runner deck incredibly hardware starved? Like the base shaper deck has 4 total hardware points available in three cards... Some of the others are even more bottlenecked. Am I missing something or do people usually make runs without icebreakers or what not?
On August 26 2013 08:50 Kronen wrote: I've played a couple of games with the base set with several friends I'm trying to get interested. Per the game's suggestion we've been playing Shaper (Kate MacSomething) vs. Jinteki.
Is it just me or is the base runner deck incredibly hardware starved? Like the base shaper deck has 4 total hardware points available in three cards... Some of the others are even more bottlenecked. Am I missing something or do people usually make runs without icebreakers or what not?
I'm not entirely sure what your asking, hardware points? Hardware starved? You can make runs without laying an icebreaker, and it's usually ok to do so at the start of the game. Once you layout an icebreaker, your actually much more vulnerable when running cause your at risk of losing your big programs now.
Is it just me or is the base runner deck incredibly hardware starved? Like the base shaper deck has 4 total hardware points available in three cards... Some of the others are even more bottlenecked. Am I missing something or do people usually make runs without icebreakers or what not?
This is a common issue and a bad bit of design by FFG. The hardware points you're talking about are actually called MU or Memory Units, and represented by the little chip symbol.
By default every runner has 4 MU . It's in the rules but not printed anywhere on the cards. The cards that give you MU give you additional MU.
Is it just me or is the base runner deck incredibly hardware starved? Like the base shaper deck has 4 total hardware points available in three cards... Some of the others are even more bottlenecked. Am I missing something or do people usually make runs without icebreakers or what not?
This is a common issue and a bad bit of design by FFG. The hardware points you're talking about are actually called MU or Memory Units, and represented by the little chip symbol.
By default every runner has 4 MU . It's in the rules but not printed anywhere on the cards. The cards that give you MU give you additional MU.
And the only spot to find this ruling is in the index I think lol.
That being said, running icebreaker-less until you have to is generally the way to go. The only thing that I'd fear is a Neural Katana (which of course Jinteki has...)
Is it just me or is the base runner deck incredibly hardware starved? Like the base shaper deck has 4 total hardware points available in three cards... Some of the others are even more bottlenecked. Am I missing something or do people usually make runs without icebreakers or what not?
This is a common issue and a bad bit of design by FFG. The hardware points you're talking about are actually called MU or Memory Units, and represented by the little chip symbol.
By default every runner has 4 MU . It's in the rules but not printed anywhere on the cards. The cards that give you MU give you additional MU.
Ahhhhh.... that makes much much more sense... Thank you very much. It doesn't say that... Cool, that makes life a lot easier.
I have the original Netrunner and I just played a friend's copy of Android: Netrunner with just the Core Set. The game seemed way more limited than the original. Some Corps are one-dimensional (NBN? only had trace cards, Jinteki is all net damage, etc.) in contrast with the original where you never knew what to expect, particularly when running into ICE.
What cycles or expansion improves the game the most? More ICE and ICE breakers would be swell.
Edit: I was apparently just using Starter Decks and didn't know what influence was. >_< Edit2: Deck building would certainly make the game a lot better. Thanks for your post, Bluebird!
Umm it depends, none of them improve the game the most except for WLA maybe which has an agenda for each corporation. The ice is kind of scattered throughout all of the expansions, Pop Up window is in cyber exodus, and Eli is in future proof, and then caduceus is in what lies ahead, and there aren't many upgrades for icebreakers. Atman, and Faerie are probably the best that aren't in the core set, the core set icebreakers like Crypsis, Corroder, Yog.0, Ninja, Mimic and Femme Fetale all see a lot of play.
If your playing the core set decks without splashing anything using influence, the decks will be extremely simple and predictable. With deck building, you never know what to expect(unless you play the same person quite a bit), since you can play any card in the game in your deck.
Thanks guys again for your help! My google and bgg searches in this regard were fruitless probably due to me not searching for the keywords MU or Memory Unit. My play partners and I were also confused as to the rules of flatlining (we initially thought flatlining occured at zero cards, not the proscribed negative value). Hopefully the next couple sessions get us all straightened out! They've already shown lots of interest! Hopefully I can get a local buddy to play with.
Just finished watching the Nationals finals from Gen-Con. Kinda nice to see that a Jinteki and a Shaper deck won. I knew it would happen because Jinteki really isn't as weak as people say it is. Now all we need is some stronger NBN help (besides Jackson Howard which should have just been a neutral card anyways).
Now all we need is some stronger NBN help (besides Jackson Howard which should have just been a neutral card anyways).
I'm pretty convinced NBN is now actually the strongest corp. with the good cards they got in WLA, the splashes from CAC and the three new bombs they get in OM. I play against a friend whose NBN deck is disgustingly hard to survive against, let alone beat- it's running 2 scorched, 2 cerebral overwriters and 3 hostile negotiations I believe. Around that you have a shell of pad/marked accounts, midseason, beale, PSF, breaking news and assorted other nastiness. And this is BEFORE jackson howard and invasion of privacy turn up.
He can play to win by remote-scoring, by psycho fast advance and by flatlining. I play pretty nasty decks and he just shits all over them constantly by reliably putting you in lose-lose situations that you have very little way around.
Now all we need is some stronger NBN help (besides Jackson Howard which should have just been a neutral card anyways).
I'm pretty convinced NBN is now actually the strongest corp. with the good cards they got in WLA, the splashes from CAC and the three new bombs they get in OM. I play against a friend whose NBN deck is disgustingly hard to survive against, let alone beat- it's running 2 scorched, 2 cerebral overwriters and 3 hostile negotiations I believe. Around that you have a shell of pad/marked accounts, midseason, beale, PSF, breaking news and assorted other nastiness. And this is BEFORE jackson howard and invasion of privacy turn up.
He can play to win by remote-scoring, by psycho fast advance and by flatlining. I play pretty nasty decks and he just shits all over them constantly by reliably putting you in lose-lose situations that you have very little way around.
I hope you mean aggressive negotiation and not hostile takeover because if he plays 3 hostile takeovers in an NBN deck then I can tell you exactly why you lose against that deck.
There is no doubt that NBN has amazing agendas but I think everything your friend splashes besides scorching earth works better in a Jinteki deck. Jinteki ice is better then NBN ice (you really do not want to be face-checking Jinteki ice whereas NBN isn't as bad), the ambushes are better (I also think your friend should be splashing junebugs instead of cerebral overwriter but that's open for debate, and of course when you play either you want trick of light) and no matter how good NBN agendas are, if you're just looking to flat line a runner Fetal AI is just freaking awesome. I agree that NBN is getting some pretty powerful cards so hopefully we'll see some more of it in tournaments but right now I just don't see it being better then Jinteki in being a hybrid strategy.
I hope you mean aggressive negotiation and not hostile takeover because if he plays 3 hostile takeovers in an NBN deck then I can tell you exactly why you lose against that deck.
I'M SO GOOD AT THIS GAME XD. Yeah you're right.
There is no doubt that NBN has amazing agendas but I think everything your friend splashes besides scorching earth works better in a Jinteki deck.
See, that's what I thought until I played it. Fact is though, someone puts down something and advances it twice in the open as jinteki, I'm quite happy to draw up and run it. Not so here. If I get an agenda against jinteki, I take my 1 net damage and grin. Here, I will literally not run a completely open RnD because if I score an agenda I lose. Period. I mean, if you get lucky and hit another three agendas in the next two-three turns things work out, but that's somewhat unlikely. Midseason in a deck built carefully to make it work is right now the most powerful card in the game. you can avoid a single scorched, but if someone midseasons you properly they can literally win that turn if they have enough cash- mideason, beale, psycho you lose. This deck does that consistently. And if it doesn't, it scorches you. And if it doesn't, it PSF locks you. And if it doesn't it just chains astroscripts.
The *only* answer is to have significantly more credits than the corp available, and his deck is specifically built around making this difficult for you to carry off, the only time I managed was when I repeat syphoned him while having both katie and professional contacts running.
as to the cerebrals over junebugs, he has the money to make them work and two brain damage synergises far better with scorched and PSF than four net damage.
I hope you mean aggressive negotiation and not hostile takeover because if he plays 3 hostile takeovers in an NBN deck then I can tell you exactly why you lose against that deck.
There is no doubt that NBN has amazing agendas but I think everything your friend splashes besides scorching earth works better in a Jinteki deck.
See, that's what I thought until I played it. Fact is though, someone puts down something and advances it twice in the open as jinteki, I'm quite happy to draw up and run it. Not so here. If I get an agenda against jinteki, I take my 1 net damage and grin. Here, I will literally not run a completely open RnD because if I score an agenda I lose. Period. I mean, if you get lucky and hit another three agendas in the next two-three turns things work out, but that's somewhat unlikely. Midseason in a deck built carefully to make it work is right now the most powerful card in the game. you can avoid a single scorched, but if someone midseasons you properly they can literally win that turn if they have enough cash- mideason, beale, psycho you lose. This deck does that consistently. And if it doesn't, it scorches you. And if it doesn't, it PSF locks you. And if it doesn't it just chains astroscripts.
The *only* answer is to have significantly more credits than the corp available, and his deck is specifically built around making this difficult for you to carry off, the only time I managed was when I repeat syphoned him while having both katie and professional contacts running.
I'll take your word for it that midseason is scary but I usually play a type of a tag-me andromeda deck anyways so I don't see it as that big a deal. Of course project beale and pshychographics suck if I can't siphon the corp fast or well enough and if your friend found a way to reliably protect himself then sure NBN can be powerful but from my experience that's the problem with NBN, it's weak in straight up stopping the runner but the alternatives aren't as good as Jinteki. Also because of the type of deck I run I have to have three plascretes so scorched earth (or PSF for that matter) isn't that scary either.
as to the cerebrals over junebugs, he has the money to make them work and two brain damage synergises far better with scorched and PSF than four net damage.
Cerebrals are good early game, Junebugs are good late game. I run them both in my Jinteki deck but if I had to choose splashing one or the other I'd always go with the Junebug. Lower influence, cheaper, and a quicker payoff. But yeah hitting a cerebral with 2 counters on it on turn 3 sucks hitting a Junebug with 2 counters on turn 2 (assuming you have 4 cards) is survivable.
I hope you mean aggressive negotiation and not hostile takeover because if he plays 3 hostile takeovers in an NBN deck then I can tell you exactly why you lose against that deck.
I'M SO GOOD AT THIS GAME XD. Yeah you're right.
There is no doubt that NBN has amazing agendas but I think everything your friend splashes besides scorching earth works better in a Jinteki deck.
See, that's what I thought until I played it. Fact is though, someone puts down something and advances it twice in the open as jinteki, I'm quite happy to draw up and run it. Not so here. If I get an agenda against jinteki, I take my 1 net damage and grin. Here, I will literally not run a completely open RnD because if I score an agenda I lose. Period. I mean, if you get lucky and hit another three agendas in the next two-three turns things work out, but that's somewhat unlikely. Midseason in a deck built carefully to make it work is right now the most powerful card in the game. you can avoid a single scorched, but if someone midseasons you properly they can literally win that turn if they have enough cash- mideason, beale, psycho you lose. This deck does that consistently. And if it doesn't, it scorches you. And if it doesn't, it PSF locks you. And if it doesn't it just chains astroscripts.
The *only* answer is to have significantly more credits than the corp available, and his deck is specifically built around making this difficult for you to carry off, the only time I managed was when I repeat syphoned him while having both katie and professional contacts running.
I'll take your word for it that midseason is scary but I usually play a type of a tag-me andromeda deck anyways so I don't see it as that big a deal. Of course project beale and pshychographics suck if I can't siphon the corp fast or well enough and if your friend found a way to reliably protect himself then sure NBN can be powerful but from my experience that's the problem with NBN, it's weak in straight up stopping the runner but the alternatives aren't as good as Jinteki. Also because of the type of deck I run I have to have three plascretes so scorched earth (or PSF for that matter) isn't that scary either.
as to the cerebrals over junebugs, he has the money to make them work and two brain damage synergises far better with scorched and PSF than four net damage.
Cerebrals are good early game, Junebugs are good late game. I run them both in my Jinteki deck but if I had to choose splashing one or the other I'd always go with the Junebug. Lower influence, cheaper, and a quicker payoff. But yeah hitting a cerebral with 2 counters on it on turn 3 sucks hitting a Junebug with 2 counters on turn 2 (assuming you have 4 cards) is survivable.
Contrary to popular belief I really believe the true "cerebral" faction in netrunner is NBN and not Jinteki. That's if you build your deck around that kind of play, because NBN fast advance is about as dumb as it gets.
Jinteki is a counter-pressure deck, its not great for flatlining against experienced Runners and you're really playing a numbers game if you design your deck that way. Its simply too unreliable to be running remotes as runner against Jinteki, the worst thing you can do is to try and beat Jinteki at its own game.
In which case there is actually no point running traps in a Jinteki deck, instead you are better off having cards that allow you to reliably score agendas, and keep the runner at bay with fear factor alone. The only Jinteki deck that I've seen that has won a Regionals is SlySquid's, and he was running Replicating Perfection. By the same token, the previous winner of that regionals ran a medium digging whizzard deck and never ran remotes.
Basically if you want Runners to hit big traps, don't run Jinteki.
Pretty sure thereisnosaurus is talking about my NBN deck, however I don't think NBN/Midseason is the strongest, I mean I've lost 2 in 20 games against several different people with my current deck but I don't think anyone else could achieve the same results. I just approach the game in a completely different manner to normal players, and my deck reflects my playstyle.
Most decks are oriented around a single playing style, allowing you to have a statistical advantage over a larger number of games. I've designed the deck to be able to win in many different ways, its a double edged sword. By not orienting the deck around a single playing style I cannot do anything as well as a normal deck, its a jack of all trades, master of none.
The problem with normal decks is that if you are prevented from doing what your deck wants to do (e.g runner gets plascretes against your scorched deck) you will have a very hard time. So its all about looking at the current meta and doing something that will win you the largest number of games and the rest is left up to variance.
My deck is more or less, meta agnostic, it also rides out variance really well because it is capable of winning in a large number of situations. That said, because of low influence from variance, the same thing applies where I will be less likely to have that magic draw where I can't be beaten.
Instead I have a very loose-aggressive playing style which is very reliant on getting a read on the Runners table image very early, and then I exploit it extremely heavily. I then use breaking-news/aggressive negotiation to get the cards I need to beat the runner. If he doesn't run plascrete the obvious choice here is Scorched Earth, however there are times when I will be tutoring a beale, PSF, cerebral, melange or even a datapool.
Against big rig decks or scared runners I will score datapools in the open. Often Runner's will adjust to my table image, which means I have to do the same. However the fact that they are putting themselves in an uncomfortable situation only allows me to exploit them much more heavily. This only leads to hilarious situations where they run an open cerebral with 8 counters on it thinking its a beale, suicide run and burn all their money followed by a midseason/psycho-PSF lock into meat-meat-scorched or psychobeale, or they are so scared to run anything but RnD so I just straight up advance a beal in the open to 13 counters and win the game.
I really think though that this kind of play requires high level thinking, unlike most corp players I do have 2 years of poker behind me which makes it much much easier to play like this.
I'll take your word for it that midseason is scary but I usually play a type of a tag-me andromeda deck anyways so I don't see it as that big a deal.
Most crims just keep their tags, which is the reason I run PSF. It doesn't cost me any money to use it, if they get enough tags I psycho-PSF and then they are in a situation where they have to draw 3 cards a turn to absorb the meat damage, but if they don't draw 3 cards to pay off the tags they die. If you run a plascrete, you have one full turn to win the game before you lose. You are in permanent lockdown, while eventually I'm going to draw a scorched or psychographics to win. No midseason required.
Slugg, GenCon had the largest netrunner tournament yet and it was won by Jinteki, Just throwing that out there.
NBN is the strongest corp with opening moves according to octgn data, interesting you went with agressive negotiations and a toolbox strategy, have never played against someone using that before.
On September 09 2013 05:41 Usagi wrote: Made Top8 in the spanish nationals yesterday. Mr Garfield, I want a raise =D P.S: I had stimhack still working xP
On September 09 2013 05:41 Usagi wrote: Made Top8 in the spanish nationals yesterday. Mr Garfield, I want a raise =D P.S: I had stimhack still working xP
Cool. Didn't know Dustin Browder played Netrunner.
Most decks are oriented around a single playing style, allowing you to have a statistical advantage over a larger number of games. I've designed the deck to be able to win in many different ways, its a double edged sword. By not orienting the deck around a single playing style I cannot do anything as well as a normal deck, its a jack of all trades, master of none.
.
I guess that's what I don't like about NBN. It really is a master of nothing. It requires a lot of setup for FA. It's not very good at defending itself from aggresive runners, and it's not that great at flat-lining. It sounds to me like you are winning in spite of your deck and not because of it (of course if you like playing this way better then more power to you). I just feel like Jinteki is more efficient at being a well rounded deck. You're right a Jinteki deck won't flatline a runner but it's going to slow him down to a crawl the same way your PSF does without even spending any clicks on it. It's the only corp that actually wants the runner to steal it's agendas (I know NBN is getting TGTBT but it is nowhere close to a Fetal in power and strength). That's why I feel it's better.
So the plugged in tour is actually coming to the FLGS I play at and I'm kind of confused on the new IDs. I mean to me it's very obvious which one is better so are we just voting on whether or not we want shapers to have even more overpowered ids?
Oh hey man, nice to see you running the nets ^^. I don't play on OCTGN but I'm sure there are plenty hereabouts who'd be happy to help. If you're eager, you can just hop on, there are a bunch of OCTGN regulars who are pretty noob friendly and happ y to help people learn.
Had a good day yesterday, still haven't lost with my corp deck xD. Got a runner to hit a 4 point cerebral and then put out a Breaking News in the open with 2 counters on it, knew he wasn't gonna run it because he was scared. Followed up into a Score and give 2 tags -> Aggressive Negotiation -> Scorched in one turn.
On September 12 2013 10:50 qxc wrote: I've started playing this a little bit at night after practice. if anyone would like to play vs. a noob and help me with octgn feel free to pm.
I would love to except I still have no internet at home (at work atm)
I prefer this for actual deck building, unfortunately no OCTGN support http://asmor.com/anr/
There are also un-spoilered cards for download somewhere, just make sure not to download spoilered ones, its much better to have the text only version if you haven't memorized all the cards.
Its an absolute pain the first couple of days (unfortunately there's no alternative) but after a while you'll get used to it and can do stuff really quickly.
I suggest sticking with one side for a few games before trying the other. On OCTGN Runner is probably the easier one to learn first.
In summary the most important things to know just off the top of my head are (some of these may be slightly wrong might wanna double check),
F1 - Start your turn F12 - End your turn
Double click card on the board/in your hand (doesn't have to be selected) - Trigger ability/Install
Double-click on server - notify that you are running that server
Hold Shift and Click on a card (select), do it again to deselect - During a run this signifies that you want to approach that piece of ice, and not jack out.
Ctrl + Shift + S - Setup (do this after loading your deck)
Ctrl + Enter - Access selected card
Access Button on GUI - Automatically say "Access Imminent, Reactions?" (common courtesy to do this after breaking all ice and beginning to access cards)
OK Button on GUI - Automatically say "No reactions" (Do this to tell the runner you have no more reactions and they are allowed to access, e.g not rezzing last ice runner may access RnD)
Magnifying Glass on GUI - Clear all viruses
F3 - Initiate Successful Run and start accessing (e.g after getting through all ice on a server), do it again to finish the run.
ESC - Jack-out of a Run
Anything you don't know or forget during a game, you can find by right clicking on the board and doing the action manually. You don't want to get into the habit of doing this though as it wastes time for the other player.
I'd be willing to help, but I guess someone native in english would be much more helpfull getting you started to be able to talk over skype while playing
I'm down to play on OCTGN with anyone! I'm in Singapore so my times are going to be kind of random though.
On a side note, does anyone know anyone who's interested in selling/trading for an alt-art PSF? I'm dying to get my hands on one at least to round out my set of alt arts, totally willing to pay cash and throw in stuff from the pile of promos I have (Scorched/Melange/Crypsis/Kate/Credit trackers/S2 Playmat) or 2-ofs from Core if that's your thing (heck 1-ofs even). PM me!
Usagi, kinda late but congrats on your finish at Spanish nationals. I'm super jelly that they gave out PSFs there =o No comments about the Corp deck since you're probably going to swap out some or all Archived Memories for Howard post-OM, but I wonder what you think about the Kate list (the same one kops ran at Gencon). I've taken out 1 Stimhack, 1 Desperado and 1 Femme for 1 Imp and 1 Parasite. My rationale is that I never want to see more than 1 Stimhack since playing 2 puts you in lessthan4cardstotankscorch zone. Femme is also really solid in theory, but I've never really found it a good thing to tutor for except against Tollbooth. Imp and Parasite are pretty universally useful to tutor for since the deck already has 3 Clone Chips and SMCs to support them, although Imp might be a meta call for my area where Weyland is heavily played. Desperado is obviously great and I would play 3 if they didn't cost 3 influence. (and a 3rd core set! =p) Whatever it is, you're obviously doing something right to get 1st, so congrats once again!
So last night I was playing live at games lab, and I noticed the runner wasn't running any remotes with counters on it.
So I slow advanced a beale in the open to 13 counters (7 agenda points), the runner couldn't use infiltrate because I was running Zaibatsu Loyalty and he didn't wanna trash it because then he wouldn't be able to out-trace my Midseason.
However I spoke to soon, the runner had "The Source" and because nobody ever plays it I never even bothered to think about it before I tried to score. So I exposed the beal with 13 counters on it, and obviously I had to score it because he knows its a beale now.
I ended up losing that game with 6 points. However what annoyed me more was that I could have won the game anyway had I read the fine print. "Trash The Source when an agenda is stolen or scored. ".
I also had a datapool in the open with 2 counters on it, had I scored the beal with the original 10 counters -> trash source and then put 3 counters on datapool instead I would have won the game. The only reason I didn't was that I thought I would have needed 6 counters to score datapool as well.
After he figured out I was a maniac, he ran the datapool same turn with 2 counters on it which I would have scored next round. 5pts, got really hard after that, all my breaking news seemed to be at the bottom of the deck while my hand filled up with PSFs and Datapools. I couldn't even midseason him even with 30 credits because he had 5 link and around 25 credits.
On September 25 2013 14:44 sluggaslamoo wrote: So last night I was playing live at games lab, and I noticed the runner wasn't running any remotes with counters on it.
So I slow advanced a beale in the open to 13 counters (7 agenda points), the runner couldn't use infiltrate because I was running Zaibatsu Loyalty and he didn't wanna trash it because then he wouldn't be able to out-trace my Midseason.
However I spoke to soon, the runner had "The Source" and because nobody ever plays it I never even bothered to think about it before I tried to score. So I exposed the beal with 13 counters on it, and obviously I had to score it because he knows its a beale now.
I ended up losing that game with 6 points. However what annoyed me more was that I could have won the game anyway had I read the fine print. "Trash The Source when an agenda is stolen or scored. ".
I also had a datapool in the open with 2 counters on it, had I scored the beal with the original 10 counters -> trash source and then put 3 counters on datapool instead I would have won the game. The only reason I didn't was that I thought I would have needed 6 counters to score datapool as well.
After he figured out I was a maniac, he ran the datapool same turn with 2 counters on it which I would have scored next round. 5pts, got really hard after that, all my breaking news seemed to be at the bottom of the deck while my hand filled up with PSFs and Datapools. I couldn't even midseason him even with 30 credits because he had 5 link and around 25 credits.
I guess I need to get a clarification on the ruling but I'm pretty sure you won when you scored the beale with 13 counters on it (regardless of whether or not you trash the source). If you read it it specifically says place 1 agenda counter on it for every advencement token on it over 3. The source doesn't change that ability, it simply changes how much you'd have to advance beale to score it for just 2. So yeah you should have just done what the card tells you and laugh. Also I'm a little confused as to why you had to reveal Beale when the runner played the source?
Man 13 advancements on beale did you use psychographics or did you seriously spent 4 turns doing nothing but putting tokens on your beale?
On September 25 2013 14:44 sluggaslamoo wrote: So last night I was playing live at games lab, and I noticed the runner wasn't running any remotes with counters on it.
So I slow advanced a beale in the open to 13 counters (7 agenda points), the runner couldn't use infiltrate because I was running Zaibatsu Loyalty and he didn't wanna trash it because then he wouldn't be able to out-trace my Midseason.
However I spoke to soon, the runner had "The Source" and because nobody ever plays it I never even bothered to think about it before I tried to score. So I exposed the beal with 13 counters on it, and obviously I had to score it because he knows its a beale now.
I ended up losing that game with 6 points. However what annoyed me more was that I could have won the game anyway had I read the fine print. "Trash The Source when an agenda is stolen or scored. ".
I also had a datapool in the open with 2 counters on it, had I scored the beal with the original 10 counters -> trash source and then put 3 counters on datapool instead I would have won the game. The only reason I didn't was that I thought I would have needed 6 counters to score datapool as well.
After he figured out I was a maniac, he ran the datapool same turn with 2 counters on it which I would have scored next round. 5pts, got really hard after that, all my breaking news seemed to be at the bottom of the deck while my hand filled up with PSFs and Datapools. I couldn't even midseason him even with 30 credits because he had 5 link and around 25 credits.
I guess I need to get a clarification on the ruling but I'm pretty sure you won when you scored the beale with 13 counters on it (regardless of whether or not you trash the source). If you read it it specifically says place 1 agenda counter on it for every advencement token on it over 3. The source doesn't change that ability, it simply changes how much you'd have to advance beale to score it for just 2. So yeah you should have just done what the card tells you and laugh. Also I'm a little confused as to why you had to reveal Beale when the runner played the source?
Man 13 advancements on beale did you use psychographics or did you seriously spent 4 turns doing nothing but putting tokens on your beale?
What happened was that I claimed "score" once I put 13 counters on it, and then he pointed to the source, so after that he knew it was a Beale and not a trap. It was directly in the open so there was no way of preventing him from directly scoring it once he started his turn.
And yes I spent 4 turns putting 3 counters on it while he ran my RnD haha.
I've been playing around with some of the new cards and omg invasion of privacy is so much fun finally I feel like i can start dicking the runner instead of the other way around
Well got a tournament tomorrow, but the availability of Opening Moves in Portland is really low. Half the players coming to the tournament basically couldnt get a copy, including me. The stores didn't even have enough copies for reserves. I guess I could have driven out of town to grab a copy, but not worth it. Im still gonna go play, but oh well. Time to get rolled by Jackson Howard players. There is a CHANCE i can borrow cards from a couple attending, but basically I only need Jackson Howard, and they probably are using all 6 copies they have . I
In other news, I get to play in the Plugged in Tour on the 8th and i'm SUPER excited. Can't wait to vote on a card(The Collective? I heard it's OP lol) , get a alternate art gabe(cards), and hopefully win all the swag. Also I will have opening moves by then hahaha.
Also I'm fully intending on crushing whichever fantasy flight staff member is doing the challenges. Nothing like beating people at the game they make .
On September 28 2013 15:42 BlueBird. wrote: Well got a tournament tomorrow, but the availability of Opening Moves in Portland is really low. Half the players coming to the tournament basically couldnt get a copy, including me. Im still gonna go play, but oh well. Time to get rolled by Jackson Howard players. There is a CHANCE i can borrow cards from a couple attending, but basically I only need Jackson Howard, and they probably are using all 6 copies they have . I
In other news, I get to play in the Plugged in Tour on the 8th and i'm SUPER excited. Can't wait to vote on a card(The Collective? I heard it's OP lol) , get a alternate art gabe(cards), and hopefully win all the swag.
Also I'm fully intending on crushing whichever fantasy flight staff member is doing the challenges.
Looks like nationals here is going to have the same problem. Its around the 20th Oct, and via express we would get Opening Moves at around the 10th earliest, non-express probably late-Oct early-Nov.
Feels like FFG is just releasing way too often. By the time I get my expansion I have about 1 week before the next one is released in the states.
I've been playing this on OCTGN for about 2 days(my first TCG), but I've got a question. If a runner runs onto my unrezzed ice, does he have to commit to the run before I reveal it, or can he jack out after I rez it without suffering the subroutines?
If a runner encounters an ice and has no icebreakers to break them then he has to take whatever the ice dishes out. Some ice (data raven for instance) does give you an option to jack out before the subroutine takes effect
On September 29 2013 02:35 LazyFailKid wrote: I've been playing this on OCTGN for about 2 days(my first TCG), but I've got a question. If a runner runs onto my unrezzed ice, does he have to commit to the run before I reveal it, or can he jack out after I rez it without suffering the subroutines?
he can't jack out of the first ICE he encounters anyway (assuming you rezz it). In case there is a second ICE behind it, he has to commit before you rezz it.
Pop-up is always a good candidate. If you want to be a real jerk (aka tournament situations) don't remind them that they have a codegate icebreaker that they can use to break pop-up and instead allow them to just pay one to get past pop-up and take your 3 damage.
Other then that traps are the obvious choice (assuming they don't have AI icebreakers). cheap and does the job it's supposed to. That's why smart runners almost always jack out unless they know exactly what the corp has behind the chum or they can break the chum.
Didn't get to play my first game today, there are a lot of rules but after reading a bit in the rulebook, looking at the cards and then watching the tutorial in the OP, I think I'm ready to play tomorrow :D
So we had a 10 person mini tournament in the city today and came equal first with one other dude. I versed him in the last round of swiss and we both beat each other as corp causing a tie for first place.
I was one of two NBN players, and the only CT player. The other winner was Parasite-Exile and Weyland slow-advance with mass transactions and Corporate Trouble shooter/Ash.
I only managed to use midseason once because I was starved of credits every game somehow, I never managed to make money from assets ever.
That said, I managed to score a beal for 13 credits (7 points) in the open twice slow advancing. Another I had a beal in the open for 5 credits for a while, then I put a breaking news with 2 counters out in the open, left it for 1 turn, score -> trash katie -> aggressive negotiation -> closed accounts. Then I put an agenda in the open he hit it, I midseason him for trace-10, psychographics for 5 credits on the open Beal to win the game.
If you're wondering why they didn't run remotes, well herp derp Kate RnD diggers, and I quickly figured out the ones that did run remotes saccing an agenda early so I'd make them scared to run with Cerebrals and Junebugs. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get my Zaibatsu's out early this time so my traps weren't as effective but still worked nonetheless.
Runner... well I had atman and 3 account siphons (+2 sameoldthings) with a 40 card deck vs NBN and Jinteki. I kept my tags every game, just made sure to install plascrete against the T&B Weyland and keep his money low and then just own the snares.
I got 5th of 13 in my tournament, the people who did well, didn't even have the new set kind of amusing, guess too much of a shortage, only 3-4 ppl had it.
Ok only read this rant if you want too I just needed to vent
I got really mad at one guy though(tried not to express it). He is new to our meta(but an obviously experienced player, has won a regionals according to him) and just moved in from out of town. It was round 4 and I'm currently in 1st, and he is in 2nd and he is playing Jinteki, and I'm playing Katman (neither of us have opening moves) and I hit a snare on my second click, and then he tries to give me the tag at the end of the turn, i literally take several actions, and then he goes, take your tag. and then I'm like, shit I'm sorry I forgot(Legit forgot about the tag). And he wont let me take back my action and remove the tag. He's like, "We each have our own counters, I'm not responsible for giving you one of my tags". And my argument is that ... "Were both responsible for all the abilities on your card resolving, I'm obviously going to remove the tag if I know about it, I just forgot, you just need to actually verbally remind me that I have one, or at least point to a tag thing, or something, giving it to me at the end of the turn is not a cool move." At this point I tell him I want a tournament organizer to solve this issue, (because I feel hes trying to screw me over regardless of who is right at this point, and I'd rather get an official ruling then just let him Kill me this turn). He just lets me take it back. I guess hoping we don't both get game losses for incorrect board state or something, I'm not even sure on the rules, I just feel like the vibe I was getting was he was trying to screw me over.
I end up hitting 2 more snares in R&D digging, and between that and a ronin I ate(had to clone chip into smc into dues ex to prevent the other ronin from hitting) and I really feel the odds were not with my hitting that last one, I had seen 2 and he had drawn quite a bit of cards, and still had half his R&D left, thought 3rd snare was a facedown card or in his hand because I kept running HQ and he wasn't protecting it.Ended up not being able to remove the tag, and died to a SE lol.
Ugh my inexperience vs Jinteki (haven't played more than 4-5 games vs Jinteki since I started playing since I haven't played Octgn in 3 months, and they recently got popular ) really cost me both my game losses as runner that day, I went on to lose because I was gonna deck basically and run out of cards to discard to net damage and I only had 2 points at the time with only 7 cards left in deck and 3 in hand so I needed to act quickly and ended up hitting stuff.
Next game(same guy) This decides if I'm gonna be in 1st or 5th basically at end of tournament, I'm in a really really good position , both financially and point wise. I have enough to score a 2 pointer next turn and the following turn, and I have them in my hand, and I already have 3 points, including a scored Gila Hands. He has NO agendas scored. I can rez wall of static on R& D when he runs, but he can get past with clone chip into atman, and it's not gonna cost him much, but doing so will make it take me an extra turn to win due to finances which I have the win right now in my hand/in my sights, considering the fact he has no points scored, I decide wth, he can see what's here I don't need it or anything. He hits 3 2 point agendas right off the top, just seeing individual cards and it's like turn 5. So I end up needing to defend both HQ and RandD for fear he pulls the final point needed and end up losing the game, and therefore, the tournament. (Would have been tied 12 points prestige with someone else, and won on Tiebreakers, but it ended up this guy I played got 1st :/)
Okay so end of story, I'm mad about that shit. I should have rezzed that fucking Wall of Static. Also I should have listened to whoever was talking about adding one of those Levy AR Lab Access instead of Escher. I never used Escher, but I would have NEVER lost either of those jinteki losses with 2 Levy AR Labs in my deck(which I normally think is a mediocre card in EVERY other matchup), both players killed me with flatline cause I was feeling pressured by cards NOT because I was feeling pressured by agenda points. I had both players R&D locked. Just very frustrated with myself right now.
This is what I get for only playing in tournaments and not playing any other time I guess.
Looking forward to playing with the developers and getting that awful gabe art on the 8th though. Also I already have a playmat and a kate, and i got new scorched earths, so yay.
Haha I read the whole thing, but from an objective standpoint I feel like they were totally your losses, I understand the feels though, sometimes you gotta take big risks. Its hard when a couple of points separate you from top and bottom.
Sometimes you gotta realise that variance plays a big part in the game, and if variance is a big problem for you, you should prioritise your deck building towards reducing variance. That's how I think anyway. Yyou just have to take it as it is. For every time you have a bad beat, there are an equal amount of times when you were super lucky and you attribute it to good play instead of variance, its a part of the game.
I totally get the snare thing, most of the time I'm told to take a tag, but I feel that I shouldn't have to remind the runner either. Its the same in poker, its not wise to go into auto-pilot mode, that's how you make silly mistakes. Sure its taxing on the brain but its only an extra second and can save you a lot of trouble.
I feel like the common Katmansperado deck that everyone plays is not as good as people think. It was designed to counter HB really hard when everyone played HB, but now hardly anyone plays HB, it becomes a pretty mediocre deck once you are against NBN or Jinteki.
Yep, you'll definitely need 1 levy (you won't need 2). I would also consider running vamp or account siphon, that was how I beat Jinteki because the only net damage I got was from scoring agendas, as he couldn't pay for his snares or rez his upgrades. Desperado I feel is pretty useless for Kate, its really only good for gabe or if you're running sneakdoor or a fast-break deck. Kate is slow, corp will have his ice out already, you just need 1 recurring credit for icebreakers and that does an equivalent job to Desperado without costing you 9 influence.
I am actually extremely used to variance in games, and I'm usually not tilted by variance. I am an experienced MTG player after all. I was more tilted by the players response/attitude than anything else.
Like I said I'm mad at myself about the losses cause I could have prevented them, basically by playing more and being more up to date, hadnt played for 2 months.
Also I agree, sorry misread that it's both parties especially the one thats card controls the affect. At least in MTG thats how it is, and honestly, the way he went about it in MTG he would have got DQd.
If it hadnt been that player being a dick, I probably would not be bitter bout the losses
I guess that's understandable. Luckily I have only really faced nice players, even willing to let me take back my action when I say to run a server with no tokens on crypsis by accident (first ice + crypsis only so its an obvious mistake), or reminding about the snare-tag and letting the runner pay it off instead of their last action. Of course I do the same, I don't think I'd feel good about winning by abusing the rules.
What I really love about netrunner is there are so many cards that you look at first glance and think is terrible and then you figure out the edge cases where its so powerful you gotta have it in your deck.
I was looking at TGTBT thinking it was terrible. Its a 3 for 1, it only gives one tag. I was thinking it would be much better as a 2 for 1 and give 2 tags. Why not just run snares and breaking news right?
Well snares don't activate from archives. This is great against Noise when he mills my TGTBT's and I can Jackson my snares/agendas back in. Great against anyone who runs Atman, which is pretty much everyone atm.
When the runner installs datasuckers I throw TGTBT's in archives, put a breaking news down in the open. If he runs any server he's got midseason heading straight for him. Most likely he will pump his datasuckers on an open archives only to be greeted with 2 tags and midseason.
I think a sideboard like in magic would be so helpful. I mean when you play as a runner, your style of play is totally different depending if you go against Jinteki or HB for example... Let's say you run 3 HQ interfaces, this is something pretty risky in case you go aginst Jinteki.
On September 30 2013 14:07 sluggaslamoo wrote: I guess that's understandable. Luckily I have only really faced nice players, even willing to let me take back my action when I say to run a server with no tokens on crypsis by accident (first ice + crypsis only so its an obvious mistake), or reminding about the snare-tag and letting the runner pay it off instead of their last action. Of course I do the same, I don't think I'd feel good about winning by abusing the rules.
What I really love about netrunner is there are so many cards that you look at first glance and think is terrible and then you figure out the edge cases where its so powerful you gotta have it in your deck.
I was looking at TGTBT thinking it was terrible. Its a 3 for 1, it only gives one tag. I was thinking it would be much better as a 2 for 1 and give 2 tags. Why not just run snares and breaking news right?
Well snares don't activate from archives. This is great against Noise when he mills my TGTBT's and I can Jackson my snares/agendas back in. Great against anyone who runs Atman, which is pretty much everyone atm.
When the runner installs datasuckers I throw TGTBT's in archives, put a breaking news down in the open. If he runs any server he's got midseason heading straight for him. Most likely he will pump his datasuckers on an open archives only to be greeted with 2 tags and midseason.
Heads I win, tails you lose. I've been playing with Power Grid Overload. It's been inconsistent, but useful more often than not. Good for removing plascretes, R&D Interfaces, and consoles. Also any hardware hosting something.
On September 30 2013 14:07 sluggaslamoo wrote: I guess that's understandable. Luckily I have only really faced nice players, even willing to let me take back my action when I say to run a server with no tokens on crypsis by accident (first ice + crypsis only so its an obvious mistake), or reminding about the snare-tag and letting the runner pay it off instead of their last action. Of course I do the same, I don't think I'd feel good about winning by abusing the rules.
What I really love about netrunner is there are so many cards that you look at first glance and think is terrible and then you figure out the edge cases where its so powerful you gotta have it in your deck.
I was looking at TGTBT thinking it was terrible. Its a 3 for 1, it only gives one tag. I was thinking it would be much better as a 2 for 1 and give 2 tags. Why not just run snares and breaking news right?
Well snares don't activate from archives. This is great against Noise when he mills my TGTBT's and I can Jackson my snares/agendas back in. Great against anyone who runs Atman, which is pretty much everyone atm.
When the runner installs datasuckers I throw TGTBT's in archives, put a breaking news down in the open. If he runs any server he's got midseason heading straight for him. Most likely he will pump his datasuckers on an open archives only to be greeted with 2 tags and midseason.
Heads I win, tails you lose. I've been playing with Power Grid Overload. It's been inconsistent, but useful more often than not. Good for removing plascretes, R&D Interfaces, and consoles. Also any hardware hosting something.
Actually I found that the best way to remove plascretes is actually PSF and Midseason. If you can aggressive negotiation your midseason and run 3 closed accounts, you can score-forfeit posted bounty -> aggressive negotiation -> closed accounts -> midseason, next turn trash all resources. Then he won't be able to run your fat remotes for a while so you should be able to slow advance a PSF, which keeps him meat locked until you draw 1 scorched (if you haven't already) and win the game.
Another way is Corporate Troubleshooter and Flare.
I found its best to run a combination of ways to achieve the same thing, what usually gets the runner off guard is when you preoccupy him with something (eg powergrid), and then you do something else which achieves the same thing which he didn't think about because he was too preoccupied (Flare+CT).
I have literally never lost as Kate against Jinteki: PE. Professional Contacts is such a beast card, along with tutorable Deus X and 3x Infiltration. Slow down your game, let Jinteki score however many points he wants, you'll take 7 later no problem. Scoring as Jinteki is super inefficient anyway.
Against Jinteki/Weyland all you need is to exercise proper caution with regards to hand size / amount of credits left / which click you're running on. If False Leads is scored you only want to make runs on Click 1 and 3, so do take note of that.
I would say it needs a lot of work. Its going to be very unreliable and you will have a lot of trouble against most types of corp bar slow advance. There's also no synergy between the cards.
It might help if you explain why you made the deck the way it is.
Here's some basic guidelines for a runner deck.
- Don't go above 45 cards unless you're Noise and you are using wyldside. A smaller deck with less variety is more powerful than a fat deck with more variety.
- Most games are around 15 turns, that means roughly 8 turns per side. If your rig doesn't come online well before 8 turns forget it.
- Never run 1's of anything, unless its Levy Labs.
- 3 of the same card, plus tutors if possible is what you want for an important item.
- You will struggle to win games without seeing at least 2 cards from R&D every run, unless you're Gabe.
- Really think about the net benefit of each card. Easy mark is a lot worse than it seems, it only gives you 1 net credit. 1 to draw, 1 to use, you may as well click twice for credits and have a much more useful card in your deck.
I was going to comment as well but then I realized you only have the core set hence the weird deck. It's kind of hard to advise since thee just isn't a whole lot you can do with a single core set and be very competitive. If you like the game definitely consider getting in the rest of the cards. It is a bit of an investment but if you want to be competitive you will need pretty much all of the data packs as each one has one or two cards that are very important. Now if you just want to pay for fun don't worry too much at first about getting advice on your decks. Slugg is right about the 16 turns thing but that applies more for experienced games with aggressive runners and optimized core decks that can score agendas quick. You don't need to worry about that right now if you're playing with someone who also only has the core set and is jst starting out as well. Try and play with the deck you just created. Pay attention to both what is working really well for you but also what isn't working. Take out the cards that are useless and put in cards that help you do what you do well. That's the best way you can start to learn how to deck build effectively.
I was going to comment as well but then I realized you only have the core set hence the weird deck. It's kind of hard to advise since thee just isn't a whole lot you can do with a single core set and be very competitive. If you like the game definitely consider getting in the rest of the cards. It is a bit of an investment but if you want to be competitive you will need pretty much all of the data packs as each one has one or two cards that are very important. Now if you just want to pay for fun don't worry too much at first about getting advice on your decks. Slugg is right about the 16 turns thing but that applies more for experienced games with aggressive runners and optimized core decks that can score agendas quick. You don't need to worry about that right now if you're playing with someone who also only has the core set and is jst starting out as well. Try and play with the deck you just created. Pay attention to both what is working really well for you but also what isn't working. Take out the cards that are useless and put in cards that help you do what you do well. That's the best way you can start to learn how to deck build effectively.
I really don't have time to play competitive, but at the same time, I want to get a little better. Also, I will buy all the cards, but I don't have money right now. It will maybe take a year before I get to buy most packs(and by then they have released a bunch of new cards!), but I'll get there eventually!
I would say it needs a lot of work. Its going to be very unreliable and you will have a lot of trouble against most types of corp bar slow advance. There's also no synergy between the cards.
It might help if you explain why you made the deck the way it is.
Here's some basic guidelines for a runner deck.
- Don't go above 45 cards unless you're Noise and you are using wyldside. A smaller deck with less variety is more powerful than a fat deck with more variety.
- Most games are around 15 turns, that means roughly 8 turns per side. If your rig doesn't come online well before 8 turns forget it.
- Never run 1's of anything, unless its Levy Labs.
- 3 of the same card, plus tutors if possible is what you want for an important item.
- You will struggle to win games without seeing at least 2 cards from R&D every run, unless you're Gabe.
- Really think about the net benefit of each card. Easy mark is a lot worse than it seems, it only gives you 1 net credit. 1 to draw, 1 to use, you may as well click twice for credits and have a much more useful card in your deck.
Thanks for the tips, I will remake it. I only have the core set, so I don't have many cards to chose from, and I've also just played this game 4-5 times, so that's why I get a strange deck I'll remove Easy mark!
Anyone have any great runner deck lists for opening moves? Got my Plugged in Tour happening in two days, and I have no clue what I want to play with as far as runner is concerned. I'm all set for corp just tweaking final 2 card slots. Kind of sad stimhack has really died down with posting tournament decklists, I got lots of great ideas from that.
I even think it kind of plays itself too. You just account siphon and go. And then you Account siphon some more. And then Account siphon again. I thought that JH would make it worse since he can slow the game down by hiding agendas in the archives but it really wasn't that much of a problem. Although I have noting from Opening moves in there since it's been doing great before opening moves came out. Feel free to give it a try if you like.
On October 12 2013 08:10 Arnstein wrote: My local shop only has Opening Moves and Study in Static. Which one should I buy?
It usually depends on what kidn of facions and decks you like to play but this one is pretty easy. Definitely get Opening moves. There are pretty much no decks that are not going to want Jackson Howard. And there are a couple of other good cards in there (hostage, gorman drip, celebrity gift) so that's a pretty easy one. Especially since study in static doesn't have a whole lot of amazing cards (green level clearence is good but that's about it) and it has the worst card in the entire game (tyrant) so it's a pretty easy choice
Thanks for the tips! Opening Moves had some really cool cards, and now that me and my friend have tried all of the corps and runners, we will start playing with the expansion cards! :D
- Never run 1's of anything, unless its Levy Labs.
I agree with the vast majority of your points. However, this one is a lot more iffy. Especially with "never."
Imo there are a good number of 1 of's in runner decks (especially). Thinks like Escher and Deus X come immediately to mind. Maybe even E3.
Especially in a deck with a lot of card and/or tutoring (the first runner deck here, for instance) you should be running more one-of's that just become silver bullets if you need them but still advance your goal (like a one of nerve agent in Noise).
That being said, when you're beginning your Netrunner adventure, staying away from one of's (and still making sure they do something for your deck later on!) is a good way to go.
Far out I cannot for the life of me beat Money Weyland with Corporate Troubleshooter. I was doing really well until somebody started using it and now everyone is using it. You pump 4 credits to beat an Oversighted Archer and then corp goes "derp gonna rez CT hurrr, derp I get 2 monies, derp trash 2 programs and end the run kthx".
FML I need a way to counter this deck before nationals which is 4 days away. Was doing great with my current CT deck (literally never lost) except against this.
This is my upgraded CT deck. I want to be able to attack a bit faster so I've gone from 2/2 crypsis/atman to 3/3 + 1 BRam for those stupid hadrians late game. I've removed 1 siphon (used to run 3) for 2 vamps, the only way I can beat CT is denying Weyland of money as much as possible, either that or emergency shutdown/crescentus/clone-chip, although it doesn't have as much utility against small ice decks. Removed 3 datasuckers because atman/datasucker isn't that useful anymore.
Basically the idea is to throw everything onto workshop, stimhack it all out. Then go from there, and just attack as hard as possible before Weyland gets too much money and can c***block me from getting into any server. So far I haven't seen much tag heavy play from any corp.
The only other thing I can think of is run HQ interface and Sneakdoor and sacrifice economy control + run economy.
Chaos Theory Cards: 40 / 40 Influence points: 15 / 15 Identity: Chaos Theory Event (16) 2x Account Siphon ●●●●●●●● 3x Diesel 3x Quality Time 3x Stimhack ●●● 3x The Makers Eye 2x Vamp ●●●● Hardware (8) 3x Dinosaurus 2x Plascrete Carapace 3x R&D Interface Program (13) 3x Atman 1x Battering Ram 3x Crypsis 3x Magnum Opus 3x Self-Modifying Code Resource (3) 3x Personal Workshop
On October 22 2013 23:41 sluggaslamoo wrote: Far out I cannot for the life of me beat Money Weyland with Corporate Troubleshooter. I was doing really well until somebody started using it and now everyone is using it. You pump 4 credits to beat an Oversighted Archer and then corp goes "derp gonna rez CT hurrr, derp I get 2 monies, derp trash 2 programs and end the run kthx".
FML I need a way to counter this deck before nationals which is 4 days away. Was doing great with my current CT deck (literally never lost) except against this.
This is my upgraded CT deck. I want to be able to attack a bit faster so I've gone from 2/2 crypsis/atman to 3/3 + 1 BRam for those stupid hadrians late game. I've removed 1 siphon (used to run 3) for 2 vamps, the only way I can beat CT is denying Weyland of money as much as possible, either that or emergency shutdown/crescentus/clone-chip, although it doesn't have as much utility against small ice decks. Removed 3 datasuckers because atman/datasucker isn't that useful anymore.
Basically the idea is to throw everything onto workshop, stimhack it all out. Then go from there, and just attack as hard as possible before Weyland gets too much money and can c***block me from getting into any server. So far I haven't seen much tag heavy play from any corp.
The only other thing I can think of is run HQ interface and Sneakdoor and sacrifice economy control + run economy.
Chaos Theory Cards: 40 / 40 Influence points: 15 / 15 Identity: Chaos Theory Event (16) 2x Account Siphon ●●●●●●●● 3x Diesel 3x Quality Time 3x Stimhack ●●● 3x The Makers Eye 2x Vamp ●●●● Hardware (8) 3x Dinosaurus 2x Plascrete Carapace 3x R&D Interface Program (13) 3x Atman 1x Battering Ram 3x Crypsis 3x Magnum Opus 3x Self-Modifying Code Resource (3) 3x Personal Workshop
Gah I dunno, I think I'm going crazy.
Hrm.. If the archers give you that much problems have you tried including a couple of faeries in your deck? that way you can match the CT cred for cred and it'll cost you nothing to break all 4 subroutines. Account Siphons against Weyland just isn't worth it if you're only doing it to try to keep them poor so maybe switch that out with the Faeries? And if economy is no issue then obviously a Femme is the answer for any ice that is giving you issues. Other than that I don't know because I just don't play Shapers that much.
You could also play clone chip/scavenge, so that you have access to the stuff you lose to archer, as long as you have the credits. Problem would really be finding room for it in your list, I don't see an easy cut for it.
On October 22 2013 23:41 sluggaslamoo wrote: Far out I cannot for the life of me beat Money Weyland with Corporate Troubleshooter. I was doing really well until somebody started using it and now everyone is using it. You pump 4 credits to beat an Oversighted Archer and then corp goes "derp gonna rez CT hurrr, derp I get 2 monies, derp trash 2 programs and end the run kthx".
FML I need a way to counter this deck before nationals which is 4 days away. Was doing great with my current CT deck (literally never lost) except against this.
This is my upgraded CT deck. I want to be able to attack a bit faster so I've gone from 2/2 crypsis/atman to 3/3 + 1 BRam for those stupid hadrians late game. I've removed 1 siphon (used to run 3) for 2 vamps, the only way I can beat CT is denying Weyland of money as much as possible, either that or emergency shutdown/crescentus/clone-chip, although it doesn't have as much utility against small ice decks. Removed 3 datasuckers because atman/datasucker isn't that useful anymore.
Basically the idea is to throw everything onto workshop, stimhack it all out. Then go from there, and just attack as hard as possible before Weyland gets too much money and can c***block me from getting into any server. So far I haven't seen much tag heavy play from any corp.
The only other thing I can think of is run HQ interface and Sneakdoor and sacrifice economy control + run economy.
Chaos Theory Cards: 40 / 40 Influence points: 15 / 15 Identity: Chaos Theory Event (16) 2x Account Siphon ●●●●●●●● 3x Diesel 3x Quality Time 3x Stimhack ●●● 3x The Makers Eye 2x Vamp ●●●● Hardware (8) 3x Dinosaurus 2x Plascrete Carapace 3x R&D Interface Program (13) 3x Atman 1x Battering Ram 3x Crypsis 3x Magnum Opus 3x Self-Modifying Code Resource (3) 3x Personal Workshop
Gah I dunno, I think I'm going crazy.
Why are you playing three dinosaurus when to only thing you can host in it is the single battering ram?
On October 22 2013 23:41 sluggaslamoo wrote: Far out I cannot for the life of me beat Money Weyland with Corporate Troubleshooter. I was doing really well until somebody started using it and now everyone is using it. You pump 4 credits to beat an Oversighted Archer and then corp goes "derp gonna rez CT hurrr, derp I get 2 monies, derp trash 2 programs and end the run kthx".
FML I need a way to counter this deck before nationals which is 4 days away. Was doing great with my current CT deck (literally never lost) except against this.
This is my upgraded CT deck. I want to be able to attack a bit faster so I've gone from 2/2 crypsis/atman to 3/3 + 1 BRam for those stupid hadrians late game. I've removed 1 siphon (used to run 3) for 2 vamps, the only way I can beat CT is denying Weyland of money as much as possible, either that or emergency shutdown/crescentus/clone-chip, although it doesn't have as much utility against small ice decks. Removed 3 datasuckers because atman/datasucker isn't that useful anymore.
Basically the idea is to throw everything onto workshop, stimhack it all out. Then go from there, and just attack as hard as possible before Weyland gets too much money and can c***block me from getting into any server. So far I haven't seen much tag heavy play from any corp.
The only other thing I can think of is run HQ interface and Sneakdoor and sacrifice economy control + run economy.
Chaos Theory Cards: 40 / 40 Influence points: 15 / 15 Identity: Chaos Theory Event (16) 2x Account Siphon ●●●●●●●● 3x Diesel 3x Quality Time 3x Stimhack ●●● 3x The Makers Eye 2x Vamp ●●●● Hardware (8) 3x Dinosaurus 2x Plascrete Carapace 3x R&D Interface Program (13) 3x Atman 1x Battering Ram 3x Crypsis 3x Magnum Opus 3x Self-Modifying Code Resource (3) 3x Personal Workshop
Gah I dunno, I think I'm going crazy.
Why are you playing three dinosaurus when to only thing you can host in it is the single battering ram?
I'm guessing he's using it for the Magnum Opus?
Edit: never mind. yeah I guess that's a good point?
Based on the advice in this thread and elsewhere, I picked up the game after playing a friend's copy. I got the Core set, What Lies Ahead, and Opening Moves. The game has been really enjoyable so far but I feel compelled to buy more for deck building. >_< I suppose I'll pick them up eventually once I am sure I have enough time and people to play with.
Edit: What are the rules/etiquette for playing in tournaments or casually in regards to letting people see what is in your deck? I don't know how sideboards work or what is expected.
On October 23 2013 04:56 Durak wrote: Based on the advice in this thread and elsewhere, I picked up the game after playing a friend's copy. I got the Core set, What Lies Ahead, and Opening Moves. The game has been really enjoyable so far but I feel compelled to buy more for deck building. >_< I suppose I'll pick them up eventually once I am sure I have enough time and people to play with.
Edit: What are the rules/etiquette for playing in tournaments or casually in regards to letting people see what is in your deck? I don't know how sideboards work or what is expected.
There is no sideboarding and you should never let people see what's in your deck. Not only that but it's actually against tournament rules to spectate other players' games or take notes on people's decks.
Slugga I played big $ weyland(no scorched) in the last tournament, and i got absolutely smashed by kate that was playing test runs and scavenges and multiple femmes. You might want to try something like that, to improve your matchup, you would need to tweak influence though.
The fact you can just trash a program whenever you install a program, then just get it back with test run/clone chip + stimhack/ scavenge, pretty brutal when dealing with things like archers/hadrians walls.
I don't want to suggest too drastic of changes cause i don't know what kind of loyalty you have too your Chaos Theory and this current set up.
My other loss was to alex frogs andromeda list, you can find it on stimhack, that game wasn't close.
On October 22 2013 23:41 sluggaslamoo wrote: Far out I cannot for the life of me beat Money Weyland with Corporate Troubleshooter. I was doing really well until somebody started using it and now everyone is using it. You pump 4 credits to beat an Oversighted Archer and then corp goes "derp gonna rez CT hurrr, derp I get 2 monies, derp trash 2 programs and end the run kthx".
FML I need a way to counter this deck before nationals which is 4 days away. Was doing great with my current CT deck (literally never lost) except against this.
This is my upgraded CT deck. I want to be able to attack a bit faster so I've gone from 2/2 crypsis/atman to 3/3 + 1 BRam for those stupid hadrians late game. I've removed 1 siphon (used to run 3) for 2 vamps, the only way I can beat CT is denying Weyland of money as much as possible, either that or emergency shutdown/crescentus/clone-chip, although it doesn't have as much utility against small ice decks. Removed 3 datasuckers because atman/datasucker isn't that useful anymore.
Basically the idea is to throw everything onto workshop, stimhack it all out. Then go from there, and just attack as hard as possible before Weyland gets too much money and can c***block me from getting into any server. So far I haven't seen much tag heavy play from any corp.
The only other thing I can think of is run HQ interface and Sneakdoor and sacrifice economy control + run economy.
Chaos Theory Cards: 40 / 40 Influence points: 15 / 15 Identity: Chaos Theory Event (16) 2x Account Siphon ●●●●●●●● 3x Diesel 3x Quality Time 3x Stimhack ●●● 3x The Makers Eye 2x Vamp ●●●● Hardware (8) 3x Dinosaurus 2x Plascrete Carapace 3x R&D Interface Program (13) 3x Atman 1x Battering Ram 3x Crypsis 3x Magnum Opus 3x Self-Modifying Code Resource (3) 3x Personal Workshop
Gah I dunno, I think I'm going crazy.
Why are you playing three dinosaurus when to only thing you can host in it is the single battering ram?
Its because I only have a single battering ram and its the only thing I want to host with dino. I can't clone chip it back onto dinosaurus if I have to install it first, so I need the reliability of having dino early. I can tutor it out too, so getting the battering ram as soon as I install dino isn't an issue.
On October 23 2013 03:56 bobbob wrote: You could also play clone chip/scavenge, so that you have access to the stuff you lose to archer, as long as you have the credits. Problem would really be finding room for it in your list, I don't see an easy cut for it.
The issue is not that I lose the programs, its that I lose the programs and therefore have to end the run allowing Weyland to score the already advanced 3 pointer in the remote and then a 2 pointer while I'm busy paying off my new breakers.
On October 23 2013 03:40 FryBender wrote: Hrm.. If the archers give you that much problems have you tried including a couple of faeries in your deck? that way you can match the CT cred for cred and it'll cost you nothing to break all 4 subroutines. Account Siphons against Weyland just isn't worth it if you're only doing it to try to keep them poor so maybe switch that out with the Faeries? And if economy is no issue then obviously a Femme is the answer for any ice that is giving you issues. Other than that I don't know because I just don't play Shapers that much.
The problem with CT is that it can be applied to any ice, so if I install femme on archer he CT's hadrians, and if I femme hadrian's he CT's archer, and if I femme both of those he CT's grim.
Also even if I get all the way through, he just rezzes ash and sends me broke which is why I need to keep the money low.
Faerie I find is really only good against HB. Getting a bonus cred to beat a Grim for 3 influence really isn't worth it I don't think.
On October 23 2013 07:01 BlueBird. wrote: Slugga I played big $ weyland(no scorched) in the last tournament, and i got absolutely smashed by kate that was playing test runs and scavenges and multiple femmes. You might want to try something like that, to improve your matchup, you would need to tweak influence though.
The fact you can just trash a program whenever you install a program, then just get it back with test run/clone chip + stimhack/ scavenge, pretty brutal when dealing with things like archers/hadrians walls.
I don't want to suggest too drastic of changes cause i don't know what kind of loyalty you have too your Chaos Theory and this current set up.
My other loss was to alex frogs andromeda list, you can find it on stimhack, that game wasn't close.
Sweet thanks. So far this deck destroys everything except holla holla get dolla with CT(troubleshooter). But I'm willing to make drastic changes because I'm likely to see 2 or 3 of these decks in 4-5 rounds of swisse.
I don't really have any loyalty, I've run every runner faction in a tournament so far.
Edit: AlexFrogs deck is pretty much the same as my deck with a different identity. The issue is things like Grim and Cyberdex trial. I ran 3 siphons 3 SOT 3 datasuckers in CT, because I had 40 cards and maximum draw I would be able to account siphon 5 times in just the first few turns pumping my datasuckers and I would keep all the tags because I ran no resources.
Pre-Opening Moves it was fantastic but I don't this deck will cut it now, you can't run fixed strength breakers anymore especially against Cyberdex+Troubleshooter.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, though I will have a look at your kate ideas they sound good.
I'm also contemplating running ninja, so I have ramosaurus and ninja I'm not really concerned about tollbooths getting boosted. That way I can efficiently break through CT without being broke the next turn and against small ice it shouldn't be too bad either, I have so much money anyway.
Anyone want to give me quick feedback on my first deck? I only have Core, What Lies Ahead, and Opening Moves so I can't use anything from A Study in Static. Also, my opponent only has the Core game. + Show Spoiler [Weyland1] +
Identity: Weyland Consortium: Building a Better World (Core)
On October 23 2013 12:55 Durak wrote: Anyone want to give me quick feedback on my first deck? I only have Core, What Lies Ahead, and Opening Moves so I can't use anything from A Study in Static. Also, my opponent only has the Core game. + Show Spoiler [Weyland1] +
Identity: Weyland Consortium: Building a Better World (Core)
I had two Archers, two Sea Source, and some more ICE in there before but I figured that was too many cards for a deck so I tried to trim it down.
Edit: Some Snares might be pretty sweet as well...
Welcome to netrunner!
Looks good, Corps can generally sit at 49 cards because you want a better ice to agenda ratio, especially as Weyland you have project atlas to tutor the cards you need. The only deck that wants to sit at the minimum is NBN usually.
I personally would remove the PAD Campaigns, you are running big money, and pads won't do much for you. You have a lot of agenda and operation based econ anyway.
I would remove hunter and replace it with draco (rez with str 0 no breakers, 1 for ninja and 3 against femme). Nothing worse than having no ETR in your opening hand and shaper/anarch sees 3 cards from RnD while hoarding tags.
You definitely need ice wall, get 3 of those.
I would add Grim.
Run 3 Melange for reliability, the later it gets in the game, the harder it is to use.
Archer + Oversight is very useful.
You need sea source and 3 scorched if you wanna play TnB, otherwise don't worry about tags or scorched imo. The problem with TnB is that plascrete almost completely counters it, so unless you can reliably hit 8 meat damage early on its really not worth having it in your deck in the first place.
As weyland you should be looking at 19 ICE minimum but not much more than that either if it means sacrificing important cards.
Run Corporate Troubleshooter because its b***shit. (can you tell I hate card right now? )
On October 23 2013 07:01 BlueBird. wrote: Slugga I played big $ weyland(no scorched) in the last tournament, and i got absolutely smashed by kate that was playing test runs and scavenges and multiple femmes. You might want to try something like that, to improve your matchup, you would need to tweak influence though.
The fact you can just trash a program whenever you install a program, then just get it back with test run/clone chip + stimhack/ scavenge, pretty brutal when dealing with things like archers/hadrians walls.
I don't want to suggest too drastic of changes cause i don't know what kind of loyalty you have too your Chaos Theory and this current set up.
My other loss was to alex frogs andromeda list, you can find it on stimhack, that game wasn't close.
Sweet thanks. So far this deck destroys everything except holla holla get dolla with CT(troubleshooter). But I'm willing to make drastic changes because I'm likely to see 2 or 3 of these decks in 4-5 rounds of swisse.
I don't really have any loyalty, I've run every runner faction in a tournament so far.
Edit: AlexFrogs deck is pretty much the same as my deck with a different identity. The issue is things like Grim and Cyberdex trial. I ran 3 siphons 3 SOT 3 datasuckers in CT, because I had 40 cards and maximum draw I would be able to account siphon 5 times in just the first few turns pumping my datasuckers and I would keep all the tags because I ran no resources.
Pre-Opening Moves it was fantastic but I don't this deck will cut it now, you can't run fixed strength breakers anymore especially against Cyberdex+Troubleshooter.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, though I will have a look at your kate ideas they sound good.
I'm also contemplating running ninja, so I have ramosaurus and ninja I'm not really concerned about tollbooths getting boosted. That way I can efficiently break through CT without being broke the next turn and against small ice it shouldn't be too bad either, I have so much money anyway.
If you don't care what runner you're running I think you should switch to Andy. Are you really seeing a lot of Cyberdexes? I was afraid of it as well when opening moves came out because I rely on datasuckers so much but I've been to 3 tournaments since then and have never even seen one. And quite honestly even if you do get hit by one it's is still so hard for the corp to completely lock you out of archives. When shock comes out it will be a different story but for now I'd say go for it. Grim and rototurret is exactly why I don't facecheck ice until I get a faeri out. But again with Andy it will be very rare when you don't either get a faeri or an FAO or worse case scenario infiltrate so that you will almost never have to run blindly.
So I'm just starting to get into this game. How important is having multiple core sets? Are there any cards that it's super necessary to have 2-3 of? Or would I be fine with just one copy of the core set and some data packs?
On October 24 2013 08:34 The Last Baron wrote: So I'm just starting to get into this game. How important is having multiple core sets? Are there any cards that it's super necessary to have 2-3 of? Or would I be fine with just one copy of the core set and some data packs?
It all depends on how and who you want to play against. If you want to play competitively then yes you will absolutely need a 2nd core set (and pretty much most of the data packs). There are some cards that it is essential to have 3 of (and a few of the 1's that you will want 2 of). If you just want to play with some friends making decks out of the cards you have in the core set then no, you do not need a second one (or even any of the data packs). The core set is actually quite good to play by itself and a lot of deckbuilding can be done within the core set itself.
I have the core set, big expansion and opening moves. What is the next datapack I should get? I prefer to play Shaper, and my friend prefers NBN, but we are open to all corps and runners!
What Lies Ahead. Really opens up a lot of corp options in terms of agendas. After that, it doesn't matter much. Just look at cards online, then buy the data packs with the cards you're most excited about. Or just buy all the datapacks.
On October 25 2013 04:22 Arnstein wrote: I have the core set, big expansion and opening moves. What is the next datapack I should get? I prefer to play Shaper, and my friend prefers NBN, but we are open to all corps and runners!
Depending on what kind of a shaper you like to run I'd consider getting cyber exodus. Test run and Personal Workshop are deck defining type of cards and Dinosaurus is another good one. On the NBN side you have marked accounts which is a pretty good drip economy card and pop-up window, an awesome piece of ice that many different corp decks can use.
After checking out both, I must say that I found Cyber Exodus to be the most interesting one. In the long run, I'm thinking of getting all the cards, but I'm a student, so can't really afford it. I will buy a new one now, though, as the guy I usually play with found out he has cancer Hopefully it will make him feel a bit better!
If you're going to be using the professor you're going to want your influences from your programs to be over 15 otherwise every shaper is better then the professor so either add more out-of-faction programs or change your id to another Shaper (and still add more our of faction cards since right now you're at 10 influence)
Just picked up Second Thoughts. A couple of cards I'm actually excited about. Shipment from SanSan might be pretty amazing in my HB fast advance. I mean it's not equivalent to an Astroscript chain but it does make things a whole lot easier once you've scored your first Efficiency Committee. So I can't wait to try that out. On the runner side I'm fairly certain I can find some room in my Andy deck for some prepaid voicepads since I run 24 events in that deck (15 of them cost at least one so yeah definitely get some use out of it). I'm also strangely fascinated by record reconstructor. Whenever I play a Yog all the enigmas hit the archives so I usually have something to clog up the R&D with, I make lots of run on Archives anyways to feed the datasuckers and the desperado so why not get a little something extra for my troubles? In the end I probably won't be able to find any room for it in a competitive deck but I think it will be fun to try in other decks for sure.
I guess worlds start tomorrow, and there is going to be a live stream. http://www.twitch.tv/ffglive two people I know made the trip out there, so good luck Joe and Travis!.
On November 08 2013 06:31 hasuprotoss wrote: God, drafts sound so intriguing.
Can't wait to watch world's, should be fun to see (Is Second Thoughts legal for worlds?)
Yes Second Thoughts should be legal as far as I know.
And yeah drafts sound great, and cost shouldn't be too high considering how it's set up. I just hope there is enough variance between decks through different drafts. Can't wait to try it out.
On November 08 2013 06:31 hasuprotoss wrote: God, drafts sound so intriguing.
Can't wait to watch world's, should be fun to see (Is Second Thoughts legal for worlds?)
Yes Second Thoughts should be legal as far as I know.
And yeah drafts sound great, and cost shouldn't be too high considering how it's set up. I just hope there is enough variance between decks through different drafts. Can't wait to try it out.
I just hope its cheap enough so its not just a cash cow
Finally won a Kate ID at one of those league night kit tournaments. WoooOOOooooOOOOo!!!
Basically my corp deck was atrocious and it was a miracle I won even one game with it. It was a new deck that I hoped would be able to score agendas fast with big ice and oversight. I think I just suck at fast advance, I know it makes no sense. Going back to my old poker deck because I seem to not be able to get higher than 50% wins with a normal deck.
The first two games wasn't even a contest, one by turn 2, and another by turn 5-ish with siphon-doppelganger-medium-notoriety combos (actually it went longer than it should have because I forgot I already scored a notoriety). With doppelganger I can same-old-thing notoriety allowing me to theoretically score 6 points without even hitting an agenda, it also synergises really well with medium.
My newly created Andy deck seems unstoppable right now, I have a newer version that I'm trying out, dropping the siphons opus' and plascretes because it slows down my tempo. There's no point in plascrete when its designed to win before turn 5 anyway. More operation based economy + armitage (no kati), 3x non-AI breakers, an extra medium and quality times, see how it works.
My fast break Andromeda deck that I used, feel free to critique or comment + Show Spoiler +
Identity: Criminal: Andromeda
Cards: 45 / 45 Influence: 15 / 15
Event (21) 3x Account Siphon 3x Easy Mark 3x Emergency Shutdown 2x Infiltration 3x Inside Job 3x Notoriety ●●● 1x Special Order 3x Sure Gamble
On November 14 2013 09:45 bobbob wrote: How can you Same Old a Notoriety? The card ends up in your score area, not in your Heap.
Ah that is a good point! :L Oh well I never managed to SOT it because I would hoard tags from siphon, I guess you can put it in your heap and use it later still, not as good as I originally thought.
IMO installing SOT is still fine if you have a billion tags. You spend a click to install, click to draw, they spend 2 credits and a click to trash it. That is, unless you really need to use it for something else.
So your changes are -3 Opus, -2 Dyson Mem Chip, +1 Medium, +3 Quality Time, +1 ?
Been working on a Jinteki: RP deck, the PADs will be replaced with Sundew when it gets out, for now it's been reasonably solid.
As for the agenda makeup, while Herrings-Fetal would be funny, it just isn't very feasable to score, and gives another turn window of opportunity. It's much better to have a scored Nisei, especially since this deck is not looking hard for the flatline kill. With Herrings, you can install Niesi, advance, install Herrings, score it on the next turn, as it is unlikely that the runner either has the clicks to run a second time on the remote, or the money. Tried a version with SanSan (since you could just as easily install a Snare with the SanSan and play it off as a Nisei) but it was too hard to keep the SanSan up all the time.
The ICE is the good Jinteki ICE, and then basically a little bit of everything. The idea is that as the corp, you know the relative strengths and weaknesses of your servers, whereas the runner always has to guess what the worst possible ICE they could hit is.
On November 14 2013 12:56 bobbob wrote: IMO installing SOT is still fine if you have a billion tags. You spend a click to install, click to draw, they spend 2 credits and a click to trash it. That is, unless you really need to use it for something else.
So your changes are -3 Opus, -2 Dyson Mem Chip, +1 Medium, +3 Quality Time, +1 ?
Been working on a Jinteki: RP deck, the PADs will be replaced with Sundew when it gets out, for now it's been reasonably solid.
As for the agenda makeup, while Herrings-Fetal would be funny, it just isn't very feasable to score, and gives another turn window of opportunity. It's much better to have a scored Nisei, especially since this deck is not looking hard for the flatline kill. With Herrings, you can install Niesi, advance, install Herrings, score it on the next turn, as it is unlikely that the runner either has the clicks to run a second time on the remote, or the money. Tried a version with SanSan (since you could just as easily install a Snare with the SanSan and play it off as a Nisei) but it was too hard to keep the SanSan up all the time.
The ICE is the good Jinteki ICE, and then basically a little bit of everything. The idea is that as the corp, you know the relative strengths and weaknesses of your servers, whereas the runner always has to guess what the worst possible ICE they could hit is.
I keep trying to understand what I don't like about your deck because it makes no sense that you'd want to put an Executive Retreat in the deck over a Fetal. And then I got it. It's RP. I hate RP. Or rather I have never "gotten" RP. I love Jinteki but RP seems stupid. At worst making a runner spend an extra click to run a remote just doesn't seem worth it when compared to the net damage. I might change my mind when sundew and shock comes out since both those cards synergize so well with RP by guaranteeing money to the corp and discouraging runs on archives but right now I've never seen anyone truly make it work. I feel like RP needs big ice to make it work but Jinteki is always so poor that it's out of the question. I suppose the Archer might surprise a runner once in a while but I suspect more often then not it will just get FAO'ed and that will be that. Good luck with it and let us knwo how it works out for you.
I wish Fetal was a 5/3 too, but ER is there as a 3 pointer so that the deck is legal. I'd also rather not cut another card for a 3rd Gila in order to make 1 Fetal 1 Gila work, or cut a Gila or Clone to make 2 Fetal work. Fetal is so incredibly difficult to score in any Jinteki deck, PE generally just uses it as a tempo card that reads 'do 3 net damage and make the runner lose 2c'
Celeb Gift has gone quite a ways in terms of ensuring that Jinteki has access to larger bursts of money. Melange is also a safer economy card once installed, since the runner has to spend 2 clicks getting to it.
The difference in tempo between RP and PE is that RP you want to bait the runner into running your remotes more often, as it eats clicks that way, compared to PE, which makes the runner spend more clicks drawing.
Shock I somewhat doubt will make it into this deck, because there's nothing reasonable to cut for it. It also does not discourage archive runs because the runner can run, jack out before access. Sundew is obviously great for RP, and will replace the PADs.
Oh yeah good point about Shock. I forgot the runner doesn't have to access the archives just to make the run. I agree celeb gift is awesome.
I guess my other question is if you don't really concentrate on flatlining the runner why have the Hokusai grid in there? You can cut that and put in a Fetal AI and a Profiteering instead of the Executive retereat. Profiteering is pretty sweet in a Jinteki deck because it can give you so much money super fast.
On November 14 2013 12:56 bobbob wrote: IMO installing SOT is still fine if you have a billion tags. You spend a click to install, click to draw, they spend 2 credits and a click to trash it. That is, unless you really need to use it for something else.
So your changes are -3 Opus, -2 Dyson Mem Chip, +1 Medium, +3 Quality Time, +1 ?
Been working on a Jinteki: RP deck, the PADs will be replaced with Sundew when it gets out, for now it's been reasonably solid.
As for the agenda makeup, while Herrings-Fetal would be funny, it just isn't very feasable to score, and gives another turn window of opportunity. It's much better to have a scored Nisei, especially since this deck is not looking hard for the flatline kill. With Herrings, you can install Niesi, advance, install Herrings, score it on the next turn, as it is unlikely that the runner either has the clicks to run a second time on the remote, or the money. Tried a version with SanSan (since you could just as easily install a Snare with the SanSan and play it off as a Nisei) but it was too hard to keep the SanSan up all the time.
The ICE is the good Jinteki ICE, and then basically a little bit of everything. The idea is that as the corp, you know the relative strengths and weaknesses of your servers, whereas the runner always has to guess what the worst possible ICE they could hit is.
I keep trying to understand what I don't like about your deck because it makes no sense that you'd want to put an Executive Retreat in the deck over a Fetal. And then I got it. It's RP. I hate RP. Or rather I have never "gotten" RP. I love Jinteki but RP seems stupid. At worst making a runner spend an extra click to run a remote just doesn't seem worth it when compared to the net damage. I might change my mind when sundew and shock comes out since both those cards synergize so well with RP by guaranteeing money to the corp and discouraging runs on archives but right now I've never seen anyone truly make it work. I feel like RP needs big ice to make it work but Jinteki is always so poor that it's out of the question. I suppose the Archer might surprise a runner once in a while but I suspect more often then not it will just get FAO'ed and that will be that. Good luck with it and let us knwo how it works out for you.
I think its pretty solid from a basic point of view.
The main problem I see with it is there is nothing that really capitalises on RP's innate. It seems much better with PE than RP.
With RP you don't wanna run a lot of agendas because you still kind of leave your centrals quite open and runner can dig through RnD much harder than against PE, hitting lots of 1 pointers and a snare against PE sucks, but against RP, meh.
At the same time, you wanna have 3 pointers because people will be more scared to run traps with less card draw or clicks. If you do run 3 pointers, I would suggest either having all 3 pointers and 2 score from hand 1 pointers OR no 1 pointers and only 3 and 2 pointers.
This allows you to have a smaller agenda ratio, but also you are making it easier for the runner to win the game running 3, 2 and 1 pointers, you have more agendas but still only 3 are needed to win.
If it was me I would run bioroid ice to put on remotes, because of RP they can't click through it. I would also run heavy operation based economy because operations can't be trashed unlike assets which makes digging RnD harder.
I would also run at least 2 cerebrals. I would also run 3 zaibatsu loyalty to force the runner to run advanced remotes, especially after they see you scoring 3 pointers instead of fetal they start being more aggressive. And Jackson Howard because it triples your snare efficiency.
On November 16 2013 07:19 FryBender wrote: Oh yeah good point about Shock. I forgot the runner doesn't have to access the archives just to make the run. I agree celeb gift is awesome.
I guess my other question is if you don't really concentrate on flatlining the runner why have the Hokusai grid in there? You can cut that and put in a Fetal AI and a Profiteering instead of the Executive retereat. Profiteering is pretty sweet in a Jinteki deck because it can give you so much money super fast.
Hokusai comes as a card that has a reasonable trash cost, functions as a reasonable deterrent on centrals, and can masquerade as any number of things in the remote. It's acceptable Siphon defense as well, since it dumps 2 credits, and then does 1 net damage without them being able to access. 4 is also not a low amount when doing a R&D dig, so even if R&D is only lightly protected, it can very often end the dig. Hokusai played as Herrings can make a remote look like it has an agenda, when in reality it holds a snare or economic asset. If they don't have the money to trash both, your Hokusai gets to ping them again next time they run.
The problem with Profiteering in RP is that the runner who wants to access a remote makes 2 runs in a turn, one on a central, which he now has bad pub for, and one on the remote, which he gets more money for. The way this deck plays is very much centered around an economic game. You want the runner to have to dump tons of money to break ice, only to not find an agenda. Thorns is 5 to break. Tollbooth and Archer generally force a Femme (9 and 10 with Crypsis, respectively). Eli is 4, or most of their turn. Viper makes for a difficult choice when on a central.
On November 16 2013 14:36 sluggaslamoo wrote: The main problem I see with it is there is nothing that really capitalises on RP's innate. It seems much better with PE than RP.
With RP you don't wanna run a lot of agendas because you still kind of leave your centrals quite open and runner can dig through RnD much harder than against PE, hitting lots of 1 pointers and a snare against PE sucks, but against RP, meh.
At the same time, you wanna have 3 pointers because people will be more scared to run traps with less card draw or clicks. If you do run 3 pointers, I would suggest either having all 3 pointers and 2 score from hand 1 pointers OR no 1 pointers and only 3 and 2 pointers.
This allows you to have a smaller agenda ratio, but also you are making it easier for the runner to win the game running 3, 2 and 1 pointers, you have more agendas but still only 3 are needed to win.
If it was me I would run bioroid ice to put on remotes, because of RP they can't click through it. I would also run heavy operation based economy because operations can't be trashed unlike assets which makes digging RnD harder.
I would also run at least 2 cerebrals. I would also run 3 zaibatsu loyalty to force the runner to run advanced remotes, especially after they see you scoring 3 pointers instead of fetal they start being more aggressive. And Jackson Howard because it triples your snare efficiency.
Pretty much every asset in the deck allows you to capitalize on RP's innate ability. Is the runner just going to let you have economic assets? The runner has to pay for runs, pay to trash cards, and still set up everything. This is not a low ICE deck that plays mindgames the whole way. The mindgames exist by putting cards in remotes. Snares masquerade as agendas in this deck, something that playing Fetal or many 5/3s do not allow you to do. Herrings are really to push through Nisei. With a scored Nisei, you have much more control over the game, as you can cut off bad event based runs, or force the runner through an economically taxing server.
There's no particularly great bioroid ice to play, The best candidates are Eli (which I have 2 of), Ichi 1.0, which fills a very similar role to Grim, but costs 2 influence, Viktor 2.0, which is a 5 cost ETR, but takes 3 influence. Viktor 1.0 is basically a worse Enigma for 2 influence. Heimdall 1.0 is reasonable, but 2 influence makes it less appealing given that Wall of Thorns is in faction. It is 7 to break instead of 5, but for what you can get for 2 influence, I would be more likely to take another Tollbooth, especially since Eli is a barrier too. Ichi was in a previous iteration of the deck, and he did pretty well, but with the exception of catching the runner click 4, one time, Grim would have done the same job. Clone Retirement can also remove the BP from Grim. I don't want to bump Eli up to a 3-of since you can still click through him on remotes (run click 1, run click 2, use clicks 3 and 4 on Eli) so he does a bad job protecting agendas, but is still great for centrals as well as defending economic assets.
RP's ability also reduces the amount of time the runner has to set up for the run. They don't have 3 clicks to set up for a remote, they only have 2 clicks to get the required economy and breakers to run the remote. Melange pretty blatantly requires the runner's attention, unless you actually want to let the deck get enough to rez a deep server and score a Nisei behind it.
EDIT: Also, agenda ratio in terms of value of each access is irrelevant. A random card's expected value is still the same. All it means is that you have more slots for other cards. Only if you run agendas that don't easily add up to 7 does it change things, in that it makes it harder to win via scoring for both runner and corp.
On December 09 2013 10:30 hasuprotoss wrote: Take Whizzard running Spinal Modem to a tournament...
Play almost all games against NBN. :'(
NBN has become very popular recently. So I take it things didn't go great with the traces? At least in a week Anarchs get a new console to play with. I guess it's useless to you if you don't want to run caissas but I think a Caissa deck will be extremely fun. And you won't even need any icebreakers if you run Reina and Xanadu and a rook plus some parasites. Yes please rez that rototurret for 8 creds so that I can install a parasite on it.
Is "Other games" hidden by default? I really hope not, took me ages to find it
Won an alt art datasucker yesterday coming 3rd in our local league night kit tournament out of about 16. It was a hard run, I had to play pretty much the top 4 players (consistent finalists some not dropping a game ever, one of them came 2nd swiss rounds in nationals) to get there, so strength of schedule wasn't even going to be a debate here.
On December 09 2013 15:25 sluggaslamoo wrote: Is "Other games" hidden by default? I really hope not, took me ages to find it
Won an alt art datasucker yesterday coming 3rd in our local league night kit tournament out of about 16. It was a hard run, I had to play pretty much the top 4 players (consistent finalists some not dropping a game ever, one of them came 2nd swiss rounds in nationals) to get there, so strength of schedule wasn't even going to be a debate here.
On December 09 2013 16:29 lim1017 wrote: I just bought the starter deck how many premade decks does it come with and how many decks can I make out of it??
It comes with "7" premade decks 3 runner and 4 corporation, although you can only have 1 runner and 1 corporation built at the same time.
You can basically have one deck of corp made with it and 1 runner deck built at one time. Nothing is stopping you from taking them apart and making new ones.
Once you get in to custom deck building there are a lot of combinations. Enjoy.
On December 09 2013 16:49 lim1017 wrote: Ah so I can't make 4 seperate decks and have 4 people playing two games at once?
The limiting factor will be the neutral agendas, it's simply not within the rules to use out of faction agenda points, and they don't include enough agenda cards per faction, so you need to use the neutral ones. You need two corporation decks. So I don't think it's possible to have 4 people playing at once only using the core set cards.
You could bend the rules and allow out of faction agendas in decks, you might also need to allow more out of faction cards in the decks to make up for the fact there will be less neutral cards, I do not know.
On December 09 2013 16:49 lim1017 wrote: Ah so I can't make 4 seperate decks and have 4 people playing two games at once?
I suppose it might be possible to do it if you don't mind making a lot of proxies for the neutral cards but straight out of the box no you can not make 4 playable decks. If you think you're going to start playing the game competitively then you will probably want to get a second core eventually anyways so you might want to do that. Otherwise you can also look on the internet as you can pick up the "extra" cards from the core set (all the 3-ofs) very cheaply from Ebay or the like.
On December 09 2013 16:49 lim1017 wrote: Ah so I can't make 4 seperate decks and have 4 people playing two games at once?
The limiting factor will be the neutral agendas, it's simply not within the rules to use out of faction agenda points, and they don't include enough agenda cards per faction, so you need to use the neutral ones. You need two corporation decks. So I don't think it's possible to have 4 people playing at once only using the core set cards.
You could bend the rules and allow out of faction agendas in decks, you might also need to allow more out of faction cards in the decks to make up for the fact there will be less neutral cards, I do not know.
Holy crap I looked at the core-set list I never knew the core set had so few agendas xD
You could probably make 2 runner decks, but only 1 corp deck it looks like.
Yeah you will probably need 2 core boxes, but you kind of want 2 anyway because you can't really play any of the factions properly without triples. Like you pretty much want 3 astroscripts to play NBN and 3 Sure Gambles per runner. Also extra click-trackers might be useful for beginners.
Also another shop was running season 3 and I managed to come first this time! finally got a sweet playmat :D
That's 2 out of 2 for season 3 which is about 100x better than I did in season 2 Slightly smaller field (12 ish?) but I still had to play the top 2 finishes of the last tournament to win it, what luck xD
2 notable games, one of the players (the nationals guy) I versed taught me this cool trick a while ago where you could use an astro-script token to advance a trap about to be accessed. He doesn't play traps so he never ever used it so it was pure theorycraft for him and it was so outrageous he didn't think anyone would use it as a proper strategy. But I ended up using it against him for a comeback corp victory by flatlining him with an astroscript advanced junebug. He vowed never to teach any of his NBN tricks to anyone ever again .
Another one I had to win my corp game in about 10 mins because the first game took so long. I played out of my mind, bluffed out a beal for 3 points, then bluffed an astroscript against The Source in quick succession. I then draw another astroscript and was sure I had the win, source being trashed after scoring my first astro.
Then "netrunner's time! finish your last turn", the turn prior I drew an astro woot! so I definitely had this game in the bag, the runner then, at the end of his final turn, installs The Source... ("Scumbag Runner" someone quickmeme that haha)
I switched up my Kate deck because I wanted to play morning star as my only barrier breaker for the lulz, had no idea I was gonna win because it was so janky, getting through wall of thorns for 1 cred was great though xD Ill probably change it back to the old one and tweak a little for the next tourney. Net shield was there because we have like 4 jinteki players now and Fetal Snare sucks even with Deus X :L
I versed World is Yours, Personal Evolution and Next Design. I think my achillies heel is against Weyland though, but I've been playing much better against Weyland recently.
Hardware (15) 2x Akamatsu Mem Chip 3x Clone Chip 2x Dinosaurus 2x Plascrete Carapace 3x R&D Interface 3x The Personal Touch
Program (15) 1x Crescentus ● 3x Datasucker ●●● 1x Deus X 1x Djinn ●● 1x Faerie ●●● 1x Magnum Opus 1x Mimic ● 1x Morning Star ●●●● 1x Net Shield 3x Self-Modifying Code 1x Yog.0 ●
Resource (8) 3x Kati Jones 3x Professional Contacts 2x The Helpful AI
***
Oh yeah I forgot to talk about nationals, I played pretty average and ended up middle of the pack, I felt soooo terrible that I practiced a shitton Rocky Balboa montage style and have improved HEAPS since then. I mean I still think I'm bad and there's a lot to improve, but you never notice how bad you were until you look back in hindsight.
I did however manage to flatline 2 players with mass brain damage using over-advanced cerebrals, I think I'm the only player that plays traps like that, being into poker and all . One guy even test-ran a Deus X into a cerebral thinking it was a junebug xD. If anything my corp let me down, my runner deck did alright, but still it wasn't the best.
I think what has happened is I have now achieved a nice balance between trapping and flatlining versus agenda victories. I used to be too tryhard about trapping runners, although I guess the silver-lining is that I got really good at it. Also this happens in poker too, instead of paying attention to the board texture/tells and using techniques situationally, you go "hey I haven't done a 3 bet for a while... yeah lets do that", and you just lose a whole heap of money. Now I've been reacting to the situation, and getting away with a few less traps in my deck while making them a whole lot more powerful. Choosing to T&B, trap-flatline and agenda score situationally instead of forcing it out has propelled my corp winrate by a lot I think.
There's a local tournament going down the day after my last exam. I think it would be fun to play in it, and I don't think there will be a lot of players, but I don't have time to prepare anything. Is it bad form if I play a deck that is essentially a copy of a winner from a tournament?
I haven't played Netrunner for very long and I don't own very many cards (Core + Opening moves). I have at least played these decks on OCTGN but I don't know if it would be dickish to run someone else's decks.
Yeah a lot of people copy winners decks 1:1. Personally I think deckbuilding is half the fun, but if you are learning its probably a good thing.
Also got my 2nd datasucker xD on a roll 3 out of 3, really hope I can get the full set :D
Also got a turn 2 win against runner with bernice + scorched which was pretty funny. (suregamble medium run run, steal 2 agendas, next card was scorched)
I think netdecking is probably the right way to go if you are new, since you can find several synergies as well as what works in various decks. However, the original creator is usually the best pilot of the deck. If you have time, play a few games with it, and make a few tweaks to fit your style more.
Thanks for the quick and helpful responses! I want to go and play for fun, while providing some good games, and I was concerned that netdecking was a faux pas. It is ambitious to try and go because it is the day after my last exam (+parties+other commitments after exam) and I don't even have a deck built. I'm going to pick up the data packs I need and some sleeves right before the tourny too.
Edit: I have played the decks lots of times though. I have probably played at least 25 games with each on OCTGN.
On December 13 2013 02:32 Durak wrote: Thanks for the quick and helpful responses! I want to go and play for fun, while providing some good games, and I was concerned that netdecking was a faux pas. It is ambitious to try and go because it is the day after my last exam (+parties+other commitments after exam) and I don't even have a deck built. I'm going to pick up the data packs I need and some sleeves right before the tourny too.
Edit: I have played the decks lots of times though. I have probably played at least 25 games with each on OCTGN.
Don't worry, my first tourney was a regionals and I rebuilt my deck 2 days prior and I came 2nd last or something.
It does really help playing your deck through when you're a beginner, the RNG for card draw will feel completely different to OCTGN. OCTGN has a better randomizer than hand shuffling, but you also get wild inconsistencies in it that you don't expect as much in live.
You may also find the games really really rushed in live, OCTGN players are very slow because of the nature of the UI, but in live everything happens really fast. You will get used to it though after a month of live play and OCTGN will feel really slow .
Had a lot of fun with the tournament and there were some great matches. I think the Datasucker alternative art is cooler than Adonis but I'll take what I can get.
On December 16 2013 04:14 Durak wrote: Had a lot of fun with the tournament and there were some great matches. I think the Datasucker alternative art is cooler than Adonis but I'll take what I can get.
Thanks again for help getting into the game TL~
Wew! Vitruvius mat buddies! High 5!
If I get all 3 datasuckers I will probably take an actual photo rather than stealing someone elses on google
And holy shit did you just win the first tournament you attended? :O Mannnn, I must be naturally bad at this game or something, had to practice my ass off to win my first mat xD.
On December 17 2013 04:48 Durak wrote: Yeah, I won my first tournament, but I was netdecking so I don't think it really counts. I'll work on some of my own decks and use those next time.
I think it counts.(my opinion of course)
World and Pro tour champions for Magic The Gathering used the decks their teammates/friends built frequently, often without changing a single card. If they do make changes we are talking about 2-3 cards difference often in the sideboard or 1-2 cards in the main deck. These Magic teams that test together usually have everyone brainstorm, and then when they find something that works many of them use the same deck.
In these kinds of games, deck building is a skill separate from the piloting of a deck in my opinion, especially when we are talking about playing in a tournament environment. While deck building is an awesome skill, it's not a skill everyone has. You will often hear people criticize netdeckers, but I don't think it's a big deal. If there is an optimal deck, and you're playing to win, you should play the optimal deck unless you are able to come up with something even better.
Basically, i'm jealous of everyone who is capable of coming up with an original deck idea that actually works, as I've only done it once or twice in my lifetime of playing card games. Even then, these were minor successes. I've won a few FNMs in MTG with my own creations but they never ran very well and i could tell they were bad, just got lucky or my competition fumbled. But I don't think any of my achievements in these games are diminished when people say but you netdecked! I think understanding the deck you're playing and the purpose of each card is much more important than actually building it.
Just some food for thought, congratulations on your win.
You guys are probably already aware, but Cool Stuff Inc is featuring Android fare in their daily/xmas sales greatly these last couple of days. The base set is 20$ today and some expands were 7-10bucks a pop in previous.
I guess there are going to be 3 city championships!!! around Portland area, I'm going to pick up the latest 2 data packs and start practicing OCTGN in January .
Played my first netrunner session in quite awhile today, tried out Reina(which had an awful economy, especially compared to noise, I think that might be a deck building issue).
Tried out Replicating Perfection with Celebrity Gift, and Sundew. Both cards are actually quite nice economy pieces, and performed well, but the actual deck didn't. I need something better to do with my credits.
I am probably going to stick to Andromeda / TagnBag Weyland for the upcoming tournament on the 19th. Weyland seems to be working well for me right now so that's something, and it's got a few new toys.
I need to test
I hope the meta shifts slightly away from Andy by city championships, but I'm going to look to prepare to beat them especially.
Anyone here want to help me test for some tournaments(on octgn), going to be practicing in about a week. Need some testing partners willing to play with the tier 1/2 decks(random octgn matches not really working out for this), although your welcome to test personal decks in addition.
On December 31 2013 18:24 BlueBird. wrote: Anyone here want to help me test for some tournaments(on octgn), going to be practicing in about a week. Need some testing partners willing to play with the tier 1/2 decks(random octgn matches not really working out for this), although your welcome to test personal decks in addition.
I'm practicing on OCTGN as well. I will only be using my decks though
Jinteki may be the richest corp now (It's pretty close compared with Weyland). It's just that most of their ICE sucks (NK, Chum, and Thorns excluded), and all their agendas suck. (Braintrust is a straight 3/2, Clone Retirement is approximately a straight 2/1, Fetal is bad outside PE, Nisei is good once scored, but is a 4/2 making it almost as hard as a 5/3 to score.)
Maybe some new Jinteki ICE and agendas will solve this, but for now they have glaring issues.
On December 31 2013 18:24 BlueBird. wrote: Anyone here want to help me test for some tournaments(on octgn), going to be practicing in about a week. Need some testing partners willing to play with the tier 1/2 decks(random octgn matches not really working out for this), although your welcome to test personal decks in addition.
I'd be up for it. I've got an Andy tag-me deck that always does well. And I'm working on a Reina deck that's a little bit different but I would say is at least a tier 2. For corp I only have a competitive HB deck. I'm working on making a jinteki deck that's playable and while it's strong I don't think it's a tournament worthy deck because of how slow it is. But if you want to play against them I'm up for it. PM me with when you're available.
Just curious, what's the typical turn-out / player to prize ratio for your Game Nights? Here in Singapore we have 2 options:
1. Store runs a league, 4 weeks of play and 1 week break. Top 3 in league get to draft Game Night items in draft order. $4 to enter league.
2. Another store does a weekly tournament. 3 rounds, top 2 get prizes (Mat/Datasucker, champ gets to pick which and 2nd takes remainder). One lucky draw Datasucker per week. Adonis for participation. $4 per entry.
I can't help but feel that it's incredibly tough to get the Datasuckers when the best option is to slog it out in the weekly Game Nights with 12+ players each time, needing to place 1st (no one ever picks mat) or 3rd and beyond (to qualify for lucky draw) to get the Datasucker.
Hey guys. I'm getting interested in this game. It seems that my country doesn't have an offline scene, so it's all the way OCTGN for me. Any tips for getting started?
On January 02 2014 17:16 nyxnyxnyx wrote: Just curious, what's the typical turn-out / player to prize ratio for your Game Nights? Here in Singapore we have 2 options:
1. Store runs a league, 4 weeks of play and 1 week break. Top 3 in league get to draft Game Night items in draft order. $4 to enter league.
2. Another store does a weekly tournament. 3 rounds, top 2 get prizes (Mat/Datasucker, champ gets to pick which and 2nd takes remainder). One lucky draw Datasucker per week. Adonis for participation. $4 per entry.
I can't help but feel that it's incredibly tough to get the Datasuckers when the best option is to slog it out in the weekly Game Nights with 12+ players each time, needing to place 1st (no one ever picks mat) or 3rd and beyond (to qualify for lucky draw) to get the Datasucker.
On January 02 2014 23:50 freelander wrote: Hey guys. I'm getting interested in this game. It seems that my country doesn't have an offline scene, so it's all the way OCTGN for me. Any tips for getting started?
I guess the main issue would be getting used to the rules quickly and card interactions and timings. OCTGN is great but it doesn't enforce the rules strictly/correctly because it can't be perfectly automated. That means you have to know how things work so you can manually fix them when things go wrong or so that you can know how to do things right on the platform. Therefore, my tip is to get familiar with the cards and rulebook first, at least somewhat, before jumping into OCTGN.
I listened to a netrunner podcast a couple weeks ago that laboriously went through the entire timing structure of a turn and run to teach the mechanics to new players. That could be helpful to listen to. You probably want to see a game played first and learn the rules beforehand though. I will see if I can find it and link.
Summary 1. Read rules 2. Watch a YouTube video to see how the game looks 3. Try a game on OCTGN with just the core decks (labeling your game name as such) 4. Listen to the podcast and look up the cards that they use as examples at the same time
With 3 and 4 reversed if you are super disciplined with learning the game rather than trying it. OCTGN has a lot of commands to learn which will hinder your ability to play your first few games.
Edit: I don't see it in the descriptions of the December Agenda 7 nor Breaking News podcasts. It is there somewhere but I am not home for a week so I can't check for you. I think it was some smaller podcast but I don't know them all that well yet.
Edit2: The aforementioned podcast is Episode 10 of The Netrunomicon. here
Thanks a lot! Now I found a Hungarian forum for the game, and it seems that there might be a Netrunner group in Budapest. I will try to play offline first if I can.
Hit me up on Skype sluggaslamoo or Daniel @ Melbourne, Australia if you wanna play OCTGN. Also got a netrunner group going so we can talk le netrunnerz.
new datapack is very strong. be aware of people trying to just hit you with punitive counterstrike. the base trace is 5. played vs a nbn deck that literally just protected his hand until he got double counterstrike, then just threw 3 pointers on the board and dared you to take them.
imp being in my deck, thats been my solution. plascrete works too. but just be aware its gonna cheese you out of a game or two.
my local scene (as in both my really local scene and up in nyc where i went to play recently) are both becoming very varied in decks. netdecking has mostly stopped and there are some creative monsters appearing. super cool. gives me a good hope for the future of the game in the tri state area at least. :D
my local scene (as in both my really local scene and up in nyc where i went to play recently) are both becoming very varied in decks. netdecking has mostly stopped and there are some creative monsters appearing. super cool. gives me a good hope for the future of the game in the tri state area at least. :D
Man am I jealous... I've been hunting for games and players in the CT area to get into the game, but like most things in Connecticut, it's non-existent or you have to drive 1-2 hours to find anything good...
I think the strongest card in the new data pack is actually keyhole. Going 3 deep into R&D every time is huge. And the best part is you get to do it safe from snares. That card is going to be a monster. I'm still not 100% sure if it's better in a noise or a whizzard deck but Anarchs will definitely be played even more now.
As I've said to my friends, Anarch isn't really the faction to really do the 'I get a random access' thing. They have a tendency to work on a server via parasites/datasuckers, and then hit the server hard while the corp struggles to find good ice. As a result, Medium fits Anarch's style better. Medium + Imp if you really want Keyhole's ability, and you can also hit the hand.
I think Sweeps Week is probably the strongest card out of the datapack. RSVP is pretty strong, IMO. Garrote is like a shaper Faerie, it's fairly strong. NBN got a bunch of good cards.
On January 20 2014 11:17 bobbob wrote: As I've said to my friends, Anarch isn't really the faction to really do the 'I get a random access' thing. They have a tendency to work on a server via parasites/datasuckers, and then hit the server hard while the corp struggles to find good ice. As a result, Medium fits Anarch's style better. Medium + Imp if you really want Keyhole's ability, and you can also hit the hand.
I think Sweeps Week is probably the strongest card out of the datapack. RSVP is pretty strong, IMO. Garrote is like a shaper Faerie, it's fairly strong. NBN got a bunch of good cards.
That's exactly it though Keyhole is 2 cards for the price of one. And when you do get easy access to R&D because you just blew up all the ice protecting it you get to see 3 different cards everytime you make a run. That's the big difference with medium. On that one big dig with Medium you'l only get to see 2-4 cards if you run R&D 3 times. If you run R&D 3 times with Keyhole you get to see 9 different cards and trash 3 of them (you couldn't do that with imps unless you had three of them installed). With medium if you hit a snare you have to stop and redraw. With Keyhole you laugh at snares (and shocks). It's also faster to set up then medium/imp. The only draw back is that you can't tutor it with a Djinn. Other then that that card is all upside.
Sweeps week is very good (especially against Andy on turn 1). It sucks that it's 2 influence though because I don't think it'll see a whole lot of play outside NBN. RSVP is good but I would have liked to have seen it be at 5 strength. At 4 it's basically still yogable and only costs 3 for gordian blade. But yeah we'll probably still see it played a good amount.
Also I think you mean sharshooter not garrote for the shaper faerie. Garrote itself is not bad. the only thing I don't like about it is the 2 MU cost. I don't see myself playing garrote over a femme strictly because of the memory cost.
On January 20 2014 03:05 FryBender wrote: I think the strongest card in the new data pack is actually keyhole. Going 3 deep into R&D every time is huge. And the best part is you get to do it safe from snares. That card is going to be a monster. I'm still not 100% sure if it's better in a noise or a whizzard deck but Anarchs will definitely be played even more now.
Probably any Shaper or Reina. At 2 memory its going to be hard to use in a virus deck.
It seems not that useful in Noise. Corp is going to wall archives, and you are spending a click to trash a card, when you can just spend that click installing a virus or using demolition run.
If you are going to trash a card to access an agenda, it would be better to just access RnD because archives is going to be walled (with Noise).
No doubt you will see it used in Noise a lot, but only because many people don't really think when they are making decks.
On January 20 2014 03:05 FryBender wrote: I think the strongest card in the new data pack is actually keyhole. Going 3 deep into R&D every time is huge. And the best part is you get to do it safe from snares. That card is going to be a monster. I'm still not 100% sure if it's better in a noise or a whizzard deck but Anarchs will definitely be played even more now.
Probably any Shaper or Reina. At 2 memory its going to be hard to use in a virus deck.
It seems not that useful in Noise. Corp is going to wall archives, and you are spending a click to trash a card, when you can just spend that click installing a virus or using demolition run.
If you are going to trash a card to access an agenda, it would be better to just access RnD because archives is going to be walled (with Noise).
No doubt you will see it used in Noise a lot, but only because many people don't really think when they are making decks.
You have 6 MUs with Grimoir and considering that you don't need Medium or Imps when you have Keyhole 2 MU is not that big a deal, especially if you're running Djinn.
Of course they are going to have their archives walled with Noise but that's great because that's less ice they have for defending R&D. You don't need easy access to archives with Noise since you only need to get in once or twice. JH makes it harder but not by a whole lot. Since when they use JH to put agendas back into R&D they're not using him to put back snares or economy.
I don't think it's a bad idea to use Keyhole in Noise. Quite the opposite actually. It helps with milling and puts even more pressure on Archives. I don't think it would be as good in Reina because Reina is a credit denial deck not a milling deck. I'm definitely looking forward to putting it into a Noise deck. I don't think I will be disappointed.
You can host it on djinn so the memory cost isn't that crazy.(keyhole that is) I have a noise deck built with it in it, but it needs something else in it, not sure what. I wish I had the influence for professional contacts. Haven't played it yet.
. I played in 2 small tournaments here in Portland, last week had 10 people at guardian games, I won with Hb fast advance and worlds andromeda. I played in a 8 person tournament today at cloud cap games with making news and andromeda with magnum opus was able to win again.
Lots of people trying out new cards today, I saw a lot of shocks.
On January 20 2014 11:17 bobbob wrote: As I've said to my friends, Anarch isn't really the faction to really do the 'I get a random access' thing. They have a tendency to work on a server via parasites/datasuckers, and then hit the server hard while the corp struggles to find good ice. As a result, Medium fits Anarch's style better. Medium + Imp if you really want Keyhole's ability, and you can also hit the hand.
I think Sweeps Week is probably the strongest card out of the datapack. RSVP is pretty strong, IMO. Garrote is like a shaper Faerie, it's fairly strong. NBN got a bunch of good cards.
That's exactly it though Keyhole is 2 cards for the price of one. And when you do get easy access to R&D because you just blew up all the ice protecting it you get to see 3 different cards everytime you make a run. That's the big difference with medium. On that one big dig with Medium you'l only get to see 2-4 cards if you run R&D 3 times. If you run R&D 3 times with Keyhole you get to see 9 different cards and trash 3 of them (you couldn't do that with imps unless you had three of them installed). With medium if you hit a snare you have to stop and redraw. With Keyhole you laugh at snares (and shocks). It's also faster to set up then medium/imp. The only draw back is that you can't tutor it with a Djinn. Other then that that card is all upside.
Sweeps week is very good (especially against Andy on turn 1). It sucks that it's 2 influence though because I don't think it'll see a whole lot of play outside NBN. RSVP is good but I would have liked to have seen it be at 5 strength. At 4 it's basically still yogable and only costs 3 for gordian blade. But yeah we'll probably still see it played a good amount.
Also I think you mean sharshooter not garrote for the shaper faerie. Garrote itself is not bad. the only thing I don't like about it is the 2 MU cost. I don't see myself playing garrote over a femme strictly because of the memory cost.
You still have to collect from archives, with Interns, Jackson, etc, this could prove a bit problematic. You also don't get to know what the corp is going to draw, which is pretty relevant a lot of the time. I can see it working acceptably under a Djinn, but in general Anarch has a lot of support cards, and I don't think Keyhole can replace them. It's probably fairly strong outside of Anarch, or maybe in Reina. But I don't really think it's a Noise/Whizzard card.
Oh yes, I did mean sharpshooter. Garrote is too expensive when compared with Ninja -- it's about even to break most things, it's better at some, but I would not want to pay 3 more and a mem to save 1-2 credits on a run in criminal. Especially not when I have Faeries too.
Garrote is really strong but memory is an issue in criminal. I can see it in future big rig criminal decks or some shaper decks, it's the best sentry breaker not named faerie.
On January 20 2014 03:05 FryBender wrote: I think the strongest card in the new data pack is actually keyhole. Going 3 deep into R&D every time is huge. And the best part is you get to do it safe from snares. That card is going to be a monster. I'm still not 100% sure if it's better in a noise or a whizzard deck but Anarchs will definitely be played even more now.
Probably any Shaper or Reina. At 2 memory its going to be hard to use in a virus deck.
It seems not that useful in Noise. Corp is going to wall archives, and you are spending a click to trash a card, when you can just spend that click installing a virus or using demolition run.
If you are going to trash a card to access an agenda, it would be better to just access RnD because archives is going to be walled (with Noise).
No doubt you will see it used in Noise a lot, but only because many people don't really think when they are making decks.
You have 6 MUs with Grimoir and considering that you don't need Medium or Imps when you have Keyhole 2 MU is not that big a deal, especially if you're running Djinn.
Of course they are going to have their archives walled with Noise but that's great because that's less ice they have for defending R&D. You don't need easy access to archives with Noise since you only need to get in once or twice. JH makes it harder but not by a whole lot. Since when they use JH to put agendas back into R&D they're not using him to put back snares or economy.
I don't think it's a bad idea to use Keyhole in Noise. Quite the opposite actually. It helps with milling and puts even more pressure on Archives. I don't think it would be as good in Reina because Reina is a credit denial deck not a milling deck. I'm definitely looking forward to putting it into a Noise deck. I don't think I will be disappointed.
Your saying keyhole is better because it takes less setup, but then you say with grimoire you have 6 MU, which means you actually need keyhole AND grimoire. So its actually worse because you can't tutor grim and keyhole like you can with medium/imp. The odds of drawing both grim and keyhole early are quite low.
Keyhole without grimoire means you are basically reduced to 1 parasite and 1 datasucker with no breakers so you aren't gonna be able to get into archives, and you aren't gonna get into a walled RnD. So you're not putting actually putting any pressure on corp.
If you install Crypsis instead then you aren't installing viruses constantly, reversing the impact of the milling and defeating the purpose of using keyhole in the first place. If its not an open RnD you can only run on RnD probably once, and you aren't gonna be able to run on both RnD and Archives.
Dataleak + masanori/josh b/account siphon, and installing viruses is also spending a click to mill one card, except you don't need to make a run on RnD. In the end if the goal of your deck is to mill the corp out, then it doesn't really matter which card you mill. You also trash 2 cards installing imp and medium, you have to run RnD twice to get the same effect with Keyhole.
You also will mill probably 4 times faster against a walled RnD. So instead of get crypsis counters + see 3 cards trash 1, its trash all 3 cards (so you are still trashing the card you would have with keyhole). So unless its an open RnD you are milling less.
Lets say you do somehow have Keyhole vs an open RnD and open Archives (should never happen against Noise but anyway). If the corp has Jackson you have basically wasted an entire turn running it 4 times that medium would have prevented. If you hit an agenda you are seeing extra cards, and if you have demolition run you can actually access 9 cards instead of just seeing them.
With Reina you can trash operation economy cards when you aren't trashing agendas, making the corp click for credits which you can use for gorman drip, even without gorman drip its still really powerful.
I'm not saying Keyhole is bad, its an amazing card but using it to enhance noise's ability seems like a bad idea. What's stopping the corp from just scoring his agendas that he knows you can't get while you're busy trashing them into a server you can't access?
Edit: Woops I sound really argumentative, I'm not going to kill somebody for using keyhole just trying to state my case
tried it in my kate deck, and i had a rig at one point that was garrote and keyhole vs jinteki.
i had to scavenge the keyhole to get breakers on the board.
so EITHER make sure you accommodate with plus memory hardware, use djinn or something, make your breaker suite make sense with keyhole in play (return of the cloud anyone?), or just be ready to scavenge a lot of things haha
On January 20 2014 17:36 SaetZero wrote: note on keyhole.
2 memory REALLY SUCKS sometimes
tried it in my kate deck, and i had a rig at one point that was garrote and keyhole vs jinteki.
i had to scavenge the keyhole to get breakers on the board.
so EITHER make sure you accommodate with plus memory hardware, use djinn or something, make your breaker suite make sense with keyhole in play (return of the cloud anyone?), or just be ready to scavenge a lot of things haha
I'd run it on ice-destruction kate with grimoire or CT even.
I think after my experience with Gila Hands I really feel like it's one of the strongest cards in the game for both HB and NBN, I really want to fit 3 in my decks but I'm not sure if it's optimal. Scoring a Gila in HB gives you a ton of room to ice up and gain credits while waiting for key fast advance cards. You have the money for defense so you really aren't threatened, Gila + Install is +2-4 credits depending on placement, and advances your board state. With NBN, you gain two different lines of play for the game. The game where you score gila early and then have the $ to protect a SanSan + R&D, or the game where you score astroscript early and start playing aggressively. Giving you two different angles of attack with the deck.
The one issue i have with the card is creating room and bending the agenda composition. I ran 2 gila in NBN on Sunday, and 2 Gila in HB last Saturday, so I will need to tweak lists if I want a third. Also the second and third Gila is really useless except as archer fodder, or to make them run a server just to waste their $ for 1 point(assuming they already have a 1 pointer scored, an additional 1 pointer does not do anything for them). I was at 5 points during Sunday's tournament and I had to score my gila out of hand with a sansan, even though I had one scored already, just to prevent my opponent from stealing it from HQ, so I spent 2 credits and my turn to score something that didn't help me at all, only stopped my opponent from winning.
I don't have experience with Jinteki, and feel like Weyland has other agenda options with Hostile Takeover, so not sure on including it in those lists.
On January 20 2014 03:05 FryBender wrote: I think the strongest card in the new data pack is actually keyhole. Going 3 deep into R&D every time is huge. And the best part is you get to do it safe from snares. That card is going to be a monster. I'm still not 100% sure if it's better in a noise or a whizzard deck but Anarchs will definitely be played even more now.
Probably any Shaper or Reina. At 2 memory its going to be hard to use in a virus deck.
It seems not that useful in Noise. Corp is going to wall archives, and you are spending a click to trash a card, when you can just spend that click installing a virus or using demolition run.
If you are going to trash a card to access an agenda, it would be better to just access RnD because archives is going to be walled (with Noise).
No doubt you will see it used in Noise a lot, but only because many people don't really think when they are making decks.
You have 6 MUs with Grimoir and considering that you don't need Medium or Imps when you have Keyhole 2 MU is not that big a deal, especially if you're running Djinn.
Of course they are going to have their archives walled with Noise but that's great because that's less ice they have for defending R&D. You don't need easy access to archives with Noise since you only need to get in once or twice. JH makes it harder but not by a whole lot. Since when they use JH to put agendas back into R&D they're not using him to put back snares or economy.
I don't think it's a bad idea to use Keyhole in Noise. Quite the opposite actually. It helps with milling and puts even more pressure on Archives. I don't think it would be as good in Reina because Reina is a credit denial deck not a milling deck. I'm definitely looking forward to putting it into a Noise deck. I don't think I will be disappointed.
Your saying keyhole is better because it takes less setup, but then you say with grimoire you have 6 MU, which means you actually need keyhole AND grimoire. So its actually worse because you can't tutor grim and keyhole like you can with medium/imp. The odds of drawing both grim and keyhole early are quite low.
Keyhole without grimoire means you are basically reduced to 1 parasite and 1 datasucker with no breakers so you aren't gonna be able to get into archives, and you aren't gonna get into a walled RnD. So you're not putting actually putting any pressure on corp.
This is true and is the only draw back to keyhole that you can't tutor it. Other than that your argument doesn't really makes any sense. There is no difference in having medium+imp versus just keyhole. You'll be able to put the same amount of pressure no matter which card/cards you use except with keyhole you access three cards from the first run, not on the 4th access as you would with medium and you can trash every time you access not once a turn and you can trash it unlimited not just twice with ungrimmoired imp. Plus that's 3 keyholes in your deck instead of 4-6 slots that medium and Imp would take up. Oh yeah and you're protecting yourself against snares and Fetals.
If you install Crypsis instead then you aren't installing viruses constantly, reversing the impact of the milling and defeating the purpose of using keyhole in the first place. If its not an open RnD you can only run on RnD probably once, and you aren't gonna be able to run on both RnD and Archives.
Dataleak + masanori/josh b/account siphon, and installing viruses is also spending a click to mill one card, except you don't need to make a run on RnD. In the end if the goal of your deck is to mill the corp out, then it doesn't really matter which card you mill. You also trash 2 cards installing imp and medium, you have to run RnD twice to get the same effect with Keyhole.
You also will mill probably 4 times faster against a walled RnD. So instead of get crypsis counters + see 3 cards trash 1, its trash all 3 cards (so you are still trashing the card you would have with keyhole). So unless its an open RnD you are milling less.
Lets say you do somehow have Keyhole vs an open RnD and open Archives (should never happen against Noise but anyway). If the corp has Jackson you have basically wasted an entire turn running it 4 times that medium would have prevented. If you hit an agenda you are seeing extra cards, and if you have demolition run you can actually access 9 cards instead of just seeing them.
With Reina you can trash operation economy cards when you aren't trashing agendas, making the corp click for credits which you can use for gorman drip, even without gorman drip its still really powerful.
You should probably be using darwin and not crypsis here so quite honestly I got lost in your math halfway through (plus I don't think the math is even correct since you're seeing three new cards with keyhole everytime you run and not one additional new card as you do with medium) but you're absolutely right about gorman drip. Oh guess what, gorman drip is a virus so again a plus to running noise. Also Account Siphon/Vamp +DLR works great in this deck forcing them to use clicks for credits and giving you money through gorman drip. The fact that you don't need imps and mediums and demo runs because of Keyhole's unlimited multi-card access and trashing means you have more room in your deck for the combos that anarchs are good at.
I'm not saying Keyhole is bad, its an amazing card but using it to enhance noise's ability seems like a bad idea. What's stopping the corp from just scoring his agendas that he knows you can't get while you're busy trashing them into a server you can't access?
Noise used to be amazing and more popular then Andy until Jackson Howard came out. Then everyone decided that Noise didn't mill fast enough to keep up with Jackson Howard and he went away. Keyhole gives you the power to keep up with JH. Yeah Reina can use keyhole to keep economy cards out of the corp's hand but Reina's credit denial is just not strong enough right now. Not with the kind of economy that the corp has gotten in the last couple of data packs. Keyhole just makes noise do what he does better. I'm not saying that Noiseshop will be the strongest deck again. But I'm saying that keyhole makes Noise playable again.
On January 22 2014 06:32 BlueBird. wrote: I think after my experience with Gila Hands I really feel like it's one of the strongest cards in the game for both HB and NBN, I really want to fit 3 in my decks but I'm not sure if it's optimal. Scoring a Gila in HB gives you a ton of room to ice up and gain credits while waiting for key fast advance cards. You have the money for defense so you really aren't threatened, Gila + Install is +2-4 credits depending on placement, and advances your board state. With NBN, you gain two different lines of play for the game. The game where you score gila early and then have the $ to protect a SanSan + R&D, or the game where you score astroscript early and start playing aggressively. Giving you two different angles of attack with the deck.
The one issue i have with the card is creating room and bending the agenda composition. I ran 2 gila in NBN on Sunday, and 2 Gila in HB last Saturday, so I will need to tweak lists if I want a third. Also the second and third Gila is really useless except as archer fodder, or to make them run a server just to waste their $ for 1 point(assuming they already have a 1 pointer scored, an additional 1 pointer does not do anything for them). I was at 5 points during Sunday's tournament and I had to score my gila out of hand with a sansan, even though I had one scored already, just to prevent my opponent from stealing it from HQ, so I spent 2 credits and my turn to score something that didn't help me at all, only stopped my opponent from winning.
I don't have experience with Jinteki, and feel like Weyland has other agenda options with Hostile Takeover, so not sure on including it in those lists.
Gila is absolutely amazing and is probably the best 3/1 in the game (maybe profiteering is better for weyland decks that don't really care about BP). It's also really good in Jinteki PE because Jinteki can always use economy and 1 pointers are always value in a PE deck
On January 28 2014 12:34 SaetZero wrote: Won a tournament recently with my comedy custom biotics deck and kate. Got my first Datasucker alt art. woo!
Congrats on your first datasucker!. What direction "comedy" biotics did you go. I know there are all sorts of weird things people do with that deck(various combo decks etc).
Just when you think have the game won, he has every agenda in his hand which you have a 1 in 10 chance of getting, and he goes from 0 to 7 agenda points in the next turn.
On January 29 2014 08:43 sluggaslamoo wrote: CB is an underrated identity IMO.
Just when you think have the game won, he has every agenda in his hand which you have a 1 in 10 chance of getting, and he goes from 0 to 7 agenda points in the next turn.
On January 29 2014 08:43 sluggaslamoo wrote: CB is an underrated identity IMO.
Just when you think have the game won, he has every agenda in his hand which you have a 1 in 10 chance of getting, and he goes from 0 to 7 agenda points in the next turn.
The problem with CI combo is that any iceless version loses to the plan of run deck until you hit a card that you can't steal/trash, then run hand (most of the time). Adding ice makes the deck less consistent. The fact is that assuming a regular distribution of draws, you know whether the hand or the deck has a higher chance of giving you points. That said, the deck is hilariously fun when it works.
On February 03 2014 15:32 bobbob wrote: The problem with CI combo is that any iceless version loses to the plan of run deck until you hit a card that you can't steal/trash, then run hand (most of the time). Adding ice makes the deck less consistent. The fact is that assuming a regular distribution of draws, you know whether the hand or the deck has a higher chance of giving you points. That said, the deck is hilariously fun when it works.
NBN FA seems really strong with Sweeps and RSVP.
I think the idea of any corp strategy is not to be tunnel visioned into that one strategy.
You will be a lot more consistent when you can win according to the situation.
So the idea is that the 0-7 is only one way to win, you may only use it in 25% of games, 75% of games you will win normally. However that 25% is an almost auto-win situation, and therefore boosts your original winrate without it by 25%.
Think of it like WL Tag n Bag. Even though the title suggests otherwise, your primary strategy shouldn't be to flatline them with scorched earth, because you will only be successful with that about 30% of the time. The other 70% of the time you need to win with agenda scoring, but that also doesn't mean that scorched earth is useless.
Making an iceless deck for CI seems a bit silly. Yes it may increase your chances of doing the wombo combo, but it decreases your chances of winning. You should strike a balance so that you maximise your winrate, even it means sacrificing the chances of pulling off the combo, but the ability should be there so you can use it when the situation calls for it.
Noise used to be amazing and more popular then Andy until Jackson Howard came out. Then everyone decided that Noise didn't mill fast enough to keep up with Jackson Howard and he went away. Keyhole gives you the power to keep up with JH. Yeah Reina can use keyhole to keep economy cards out of the corp's hand but Reina's credit denial is just not strong enough right now. Not with the kind of economy that the corp has gotten in the last couple of data packs. Keyhole just makes noise do what he does better. I'm not saying that Noiseshop will be the strongest deck again. But I'm saying that keyhole makes Noise playable again.
Noise is still amazing, my practice partner is probably the best runner in our region atm and he plays Noise (the only one that plays it because everyone else thinks it sucks).
Though his deck is nothing like any other Noise deck I've seen. There's only a handful of viruses (datasucker/parasite/medium/crypsis only afaik), and 1/3rd of his deck is econ inc bankjob.
On February 03 2014 15:32 bobbob wrote: The problem with CI combo is that any iceless version loses to the plan of run deck until you hit a card that you can't steal/trash, then run hand (most of the time). Adding ice makes the deck less consistent. The fact is that assuming a regular distribution of draws, you know whether the hand or the deck has a higher chance of giving you points. That said, the deck is hilariously fun when it works.
NBN FA seems really strong with Sweeps and RSVP.
I think the idea of any corp strategy is not to be tunnel visioned into that one strategy.
You will be a lot more consistent when you can win according to the situation.
So the idea is that the 0-7 is only one way to win, you may only use it in 25% of games, 75% of games you will win normally. However that 25% is an almost auto-win situation, and therefore boosts your original winrate without it by 25%.
Think of it like WL Tag n Bag. Even though the title suggests otherwise, your primary strategy shouldn't be to flatline them with scorched earth, because you will only be successful with that about 30% of the time. The other 70% of the time you need to win with agenda scoring, but that also doesn't mean that scorched earth is useless.
Making an iceless deck for CI seems a bit silly. Yes it may increase your chances of doing the wombo combo, but it decreases your chances of winning. You should strike a balance so that you maximise your winrate, even it means sacrificing the chances of pulling off the combo, but the ability should be there so you can use it when the situation calls for it.
The way I view any 'focused' strategy like this is that you need a backup win condition.... and you need to know when to switch paths on how you are gonna make it to the end of the game.
Tag n Bag is fine, but if your opponent replicates 3 plascretes into play, just give it up. Dont try to force it. Same thing if a runner has 2 R&D interfaces in play, but it costs 25 credits to get into R&D. Just switch your gameplan to something more reasonable.
People tunnel vision a lot of this game, in my experience anyway, and lose games they should have probably won because of it. Often. Its like a timing attack in SC right... you did your damage, but you gotta know when to keep leaning on them, and when to back off and do something else.
Jinteki shell just got a whole lot cooler. Lots of player interaction which I like.
I can't wait to use mushin in NBN though for bluffing Beale's.
Can you use House of Knives multiple times if you have multiple scored?
Future Perfect is just wow...
I can imagine a lot of runner headaches with Komainu with Corporate Troubleshooter and House of Knives/Philotic Entanglement+Sansan. I don't really understand why the extra wording though, maybe its so femme can bypass it for 1?
I really like the new Nisei cards + identity. I don't know how competitive it is, but with Caprice coming out next data pack, I will probably try to make something work. I really really like Caprice Nisei in regular decks though.
The new NBN agenda is insane tag punishment though, and I will be playing NBN this weekend.
Went to a store championship on Saturday and lost. Trying to make it to another one this sunday, the plaque is really sweet.
Stirling can actually be good. You spend your entire influence on Keyholes, and then just use the new centrals breaker suite to do nothing but go after R&D with Keyhole. Your econ would be crazy and with the right kind of support it might work quite well. I guess the only issue would be finding the keyhole in your deck early on but Mr Li is very good at going through your deck quick so I think it would be quite doable.
early bird (run event, gain a click if its the first thing you do in a turn) inside jobs account siphon makers eye legwork (run event, its like makers eye but for hq instead)
thats 15 run events, and theres a lot more you can get also. add in levy ar lab access, and same old thing... and ken is kinda scary as hell, and prepaid voice pad is really useful here too.....
17 influence?
levy ar lab access x 1 (3) makers eye x 3 (6) self modifying code x 2 (6) corroder x 1 (2)
thats how i would do it. just play like an asshole version of kate. haha.
The console is great. It's effect is really powerful for just 4 cost. I just can't imagine running it over Desperado in criminal. I can see using it in Anarch/Shaper though.
Played in a draft store championship today. Was my first time using the new draft packs, had a lot of fun and got top 4. I really struggled as corp I'n top 8 draft took too much economy and then didn't see ice packs 3-4 where I was trying to shore up my weakness . Melanges are great but not if they are being trashed for 1 credit In he and r&d Both my ro8 and ro4 games as corp we're complete disasters 6-0 losses within several turns each
Need to draft some more to get my head around how to actually evaluate picks.
On March 16 2014 17:42 BlueBird. wrote: Played in a draft store championship today. Was my first time using the new draft packs, had a lot of fun and got top 4. I really struggled as corp I'n top 8 draft took too much economy and then didn't see ice packs 3-4 where I was trying to shore up my weakness . Melanges are great but not if they are being trashed for 1 credit In he and r&d Both my ro8 and ro4 games as corp we're complete disasters 6-0 losses within several turns each
Need to draft some more to get my head around how to actually evaluate picks.
I've only done a half draft so far but I feel like runners have such a huge advantage. I was a runner and I honestly played horrendously and still only one game was even close. All the rest I blew out the corp. Really in every game it came down to economy. The corp never had a chance to score anything until I was sitting on 4 to 5 points and then even if they did manage to get something out I would just keep attacking the centrals to find the final point.
That's not to say that the games weren't fun. A couple of people commented that it's almost like you're playing netrunner the way it was meant to be played. I mean when scrubbers and decoys are good cards you know it's a good game
On March 16 2014 17:42 BlueBird. wrote: Played in a draft store championship today. Was my first time using the new draft packs, had a lot of fun and got top 4. I really struggled as corp I'n top 8 draft took too much economy and then didn't see ice packs 3-4 where I was trying to shore up my weakness . Melanges are great but not if they are being trashed for 1 credit In he and r&d Both my ro8 and ro4 games as corp we're complete disasters 6-0 losses within several turns each
Need to draft some more to get my head around how to actually evaluate picks.
I've only done a half draft so far but I feel like runners have such a huge advantage. I was a runner and I honestly played horrendously and still only one game was even close. All the rest I blew out the corp. Really in every game it came down to economy. The corp never had a chance to score anything until I was sitting on 4 to 5 points and then even if they did manage to get something out I would just keep attacking the centrals to find the final point.
That's not to say that the games weren't fun. A couple of people commented that it's almost like you're playing netrunner the way it was meant to be played. I mean when scrubbers and decoys are good cards you know it's a good game
Yes I tend to agree with much of what you said. Although It did feel like a lot of games came down to remotes and bluffs. I had some very intense games as Runner in which if I made the wrong decision I would have lost.
I did end up winning all of my actual runner games for the day and agree I felt very advantaged. The only runner game I lost was my opponent scoring a Hostile out of hand on turn 1 in semi-finals, (he won previous game 6-0). We didn't play it out as I had a 3 hour drive home /
How was half draft? I feel like a lot of drafting is drafting against your competition, and so I'm not sure how I would like it.
So my friend is an avid Noise user and he won a store championship and posted it on NetrunnerDB. Was on the front page for a while but feel free to let him know what you think. He's had this deck for ages, nothing post C&C and continues to win a lot with it.
Very smart guy. For all the noise non-believers, he is still very strong.
We have a very heavy weyland meta. So the fact that he doesn't use plascrete means you will probably not need plascrete ever.
We used to have 2-4 jintekis in every tournament, so swordsman doesn't seem to be an issue either.
Now we have mostly NBN and Weyland, although it seems to have done well against every faction, but something to keep in mind. I actually think Weyland is the hardest counter to anarchs which is why I haven't bothered with them recently.
Got 3rd in a store championship, the winner was the guy who has been winning all the store championships in the area, lost both my games to him, he did get lucky but the games would have been really close otherwise.
Was playing encryption protocol HB, only dropped the game to the winner (Gabe), and noiseshop, losing to the winner (pure operation econ HB FA) and TWIY that managed to Astro into astro by turn 2, I saw like 10+ cards out of the unprotected deck and only got 2 points, out of the 3ish times that I did not see the top card (because I milled something useful) he ripped an agenda (breaking/beale). Wraparound ruins my Noise, since I have just 1 corroder.
Encryption HB was really good overall, it crushes Andy pretty hard, beats most shapers. It's fine vs Gabe, not so amazing vs Noise and pretty trash vs Whizzard.
Encryption HB: Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future
Agenda (10) 3 Accelerated Beta Test 3 Efficiency Committee 1 Private Security Force 3 Project Vitruvius
Asset (14) 2 Adonis Campaign 3 Alix T4LBO7 3 Encryption Protocol 3 Eve Campaign 3 Jackson Howard (3i)
Upgrade (4) 1 Ash 2X3ZB9CY 3 SanSan City Grid (9i)
I finally won a store championship(took me 6 tries) yesterday. I also got 3rd /24 players today so decks worked really solid. My decks are fairly boring, standard Andy with Datasuckers and NBN Making News with lots of operation economy.
One of my friends had a lot of success today with Kit + Paintbrush + Yogasaurus and claims it actually works really well, and I'm tired of playing criminal after all these events so I might take it next weekend to the final store championship of the season if I can get a good looking list together. Either that or fall guy + DLR/joshua B + account siphon which absolutely smashed me in round 5 today. I couldn't gain $ to trash everything since he would just siphon me again, and I couldn't trash things cause of 2 fall guy, My first loss by decking in tournament play.
Also, NAPD Contract is really really good, and you need a really good reason to not be playing it.
On March 31 2014 14:12 BlueBird. wrote: I finally won a store championship(took me 6 tries) yesterday. I also got 3rd /24 players today so decks worked really solid. My decks are fairly boring, standard Andy with Datasuckers and NBN Making News with lots of operation economy.
One of my friends had a lot of success today with Kit + Paintbrush + Yogasaurus and claims it actually works really well, and I'm tired of playing criminal after all these events so I might take it next weekend to the final store championship of the season if I can get a good looking list together. Either that or fall guy + DLR/joshua B + account siphon which absolutely smashed me in round 5 today. I couldn't gain $ to trash everything since he would just siphon me again, and I couldn't trash things cause of 2 fall guy, My first loss by decking in tournament play.
Also, NAPD Contract is really really good, and you need a really good reason to not be playing it.
Yeah, the people who were complaining about Caprice... NAPD is easily the best card in the pack, imo.
Anyways, I have a huge type up of what I recall from the 6 store championships I attended (my best place was second, but I feel if I had stuck with my first two decks I would've been able to compete a lot better in most of them).
Anyways, the writeup is in the spoiler below. If you want decklists I can try and recall them for you:
I've played in six store championships in the past two months or so throughout the Atlanta area. Here's my writeups on all of them, hopefully complete with how the rounds went:
Store Championship 1: Tyche's Games (Athens) Don't remember the date (G_G so long ago!)
I ran Gabe and NBN:TWIY*. I can probably conjure the decklists, but Gabe was your standard "run by the seat of your pants" Gabe with Siphons/Indexing/Same Old Thing. The TWIY* deck ran 2 Biotics and was purely based on Fast Advance. Mala Tempora was out for this tournament, but I didn't run the Knight Gabe deck, because I didn't feel too confident running it with not much play experience. Both of these decks were a lot like the ones running bear (on BGG) was playing around the same time on stream.
Round 1: vs. Michael (Kate/Weyland)
My corp game involved him setting up quicker than I could draw agendas. And his deck (which revolves around having a trillion recurring credits to use for a run) murders most decks when set up well.
The runner game involved me being afraid that he switched back to a Scorched build (he'd been doing a glacier deck the past few weeks). I dropped a Plascrete early against him and then realized, nope, he was still playing glacier style. I think I hit an Indexing or two to find the points.
1-1
Round 2: vs. Gabriel (Sorry Gabe don't remember what you were running!)
Don't remember these games very well. I feel they were relatively close but I get by winning both.
3-1
Round 3: vs. Pacer (JintekiE/Chaos Theory)
Another guy who came over from Atlanta that I have a good bit experience playing against both his decks.
For the corp game I just do my FA thing and block archives early (IIRC) to prevent him from Retrieval Running his Femmes/Torch onto the field. Astroscript gets me the win (naturally...)
For the runner game he starts doing the advance in the open thing. I probably should've been more aggresive in the early game, but that's also hindsight talking. Afraid of his Cerebrals, I let him score two Nisei's early, and that pretty much seals my fate right there.
4-2
Round 4: vs. Andrew (NBN:MN/Gabe(?))
I don't remember much about these games. Knowing how my record turned out I know that I won as corp and lost as runner.
5-3
Round 5: vs. Wes (NBN:MN/Chaos Theory)
I remember this round very well. First game I run. I know that we both get to six points at one point. He's got an Astro token and a rezzed SanSan that I just cannot spend the time to trash. For about five or six turns, we're analyzing the board state quite frequently, counting every credit, etc. etc. I know that I cannot let him draw into an agenda or it's game over for me, so I'm trying to run R&D but no multi-access outside of Indexing really hurts. He eventually gets a Jackson on the table and starts drawing the first click of his turn and doing other things (I know helping ice R&D was one of them) with his other two clicks. I'm hitting HQ once a turn as it's virtually free for me with Gabe and trying to set myself up to Indexing him. The turn before I do the Indexing turn I hit his hand (because I didn't need that extra click to get ready to Index). I see one of five cards and turn over the Character Assassination. I'm slowly running through the fact that he HAD to have drawn that agenda with Jackson and I had only a 20% shot of pulling it from his hand. Basically, everything that had to go right went right for me in that last turn.
At this point, I know winning my next game will more than likely get me top 4 as a lot of splits have happened. REgardless, I have perfect weak side wins if I lose, so hopefully that gets me there.
The second game begins. He's playing Chaos Theory. Early on he Test Runs a Femme for my HQ ice. This is back when I was young, naive, and not thinking everyone was running Siphons. Needless to say, I get Siphoned in the face and try and make a game of it, but lose terribly.
6-4
The top 4 is called out, and sadly my strength of schedule is only enough to get me in a three way tie for fifth. Luckily, the TO liked the Virtruvius playmat from Season 3, so I traded for the TO playmat. Being so close to top 4 I still feel like I earned it.
Store Championship 2: The Raven's Nest (Marietta)
With a psuedo-mat in hand, I decide to try and play a different set of decks in Noise and HB:ETF. My HB deck ran 2 Priority Req's in order to fit in enough non-agenda cards to make me happy. These will come back and bite me. I don't remember much about the Noise deck other then the fact that I used the fixed breakers and had an Atman or two to try and deal with the bigger ice. Also, Fear and Loathing came out in this pack as second place (Michael from the first round of last tournament) was playing Blackguard Andromeda and GRNDL.
Round 1: vs. John (JintekiE/Some runner)
I think I ran first. Power Shutdown dumpsters my Corroder (you'll read this again in this report). At some point, he Celebrity Gifts me the knowledge that he has two Punitives in hand. At some point, I decide to last click run his archives because, you know, that's wise and all against a Jinteki deck. He hands me a Priority Req and murders me the next turn.
I don't remember much about my Corp game. Except Priority Requsition gets stolen(?) I don't even remember if I win or lose this game.
0?-2?
Round 2: vs. David? (?/?)
Don't remember these games at all, sadly.
Round 3: vs. Lionel (Weyland/Gabe)
I know that as Corp I get Siphoned five times and lose terribly. I know as Runner I have my Corroder Power Shutdowned and have to face check Archers at time to try and keep pace. Yeah, i get blown out here!
Round 4: vs. Robyn? (?/?)
I might have actually played her husband, which goes to show how much I remember about this tournament, LOL. I just know Priority Requsition gets stolen (like usual). Luckily, I don't remember Corroder getting Shutdowned, which I guess is something.
I don't even remember my record, I might have won 2 or 3 games here. The Noise deck wasn't great but I eventually cut some fat from the HB deck to run it a few more times (and cut the 3 pointers!)
Store Championship 3: The Tower (Suwannee)
This was the beginning of a double-header weekend. At both events, I went back to my TWIY* Biotic deck (but who needs Wraparound?! [not that I thought it would've done me any good!]) and ran an Opus Andromeda deck (basically Aaron Andries top four decklist from World's except Lemuria Codecracker instead of Infiltration [I was done having Corroder die to Power Shutdown!!!]).
Round 1: vs. Mark (NBN/Gabe)
Mark won the first store championship in Athens, and top foured the Marietta store championship, so I know he's a good player (I think he also won a regionals last year, but I was't playing at that point!)
In the game I run, I hit two early Neural Katanas (completely unexpected spash!). I don't remember losing too many vital cards. Eventually my rig is set up. He installs a card behind an unknown ice/Tollbooth server. I take money and run it. He rezzes an Archer. I do the math and figure I can access the card if I give him the two credits. I do it, and he has an Astro in the remote for me to win.
The corp game I know he get's a terrible draw and I'm not pressured at all and can ride my way to the win.
2-0, and feeling good that I beat such a great player (you'll read this again... Oh delusions of grandeur...)
Round 2: vs. John (Jinteki:RP/?)
I run game one. I know that he's got an uber scoring server setting up but I steal six points. He gets some Sundews going with Encryption Protocols as protection. However, I get greedy, being at six points and all, and let him keep the Sundews going. He has Tsurugui protecting R&D, and that quickly becomes a problem as my Killer is Ninja . Eventually, he's got like five points. I hit R&D and have one credit left. Of course I see an agenda whose name is Fetal AI . The elation of thinking I've won... to the realization that he's probably got the game. I think next turn after he install-advance-advances in the Ash/Hokusai/crazy ice remote I try and give myself a chance in R&D again but whiff, and he scores like a Nisei next turn (to make sure I didn't steal the agenda from hand).
He runs something and beats me soundly in the second game.
2-2.
Round 3: vs. David (?/?)
Sadly, I don't remember much from these games other than that they both are relative close. Luckily I take both to give myself a shot at top 4.
4-2
Round 4: vs. Kevin (NBN/Reina)
I run first. He scores three Astros. What do...
I corp second. I'm always poor because Reina is a succubus.
4-4
Oh well, still a relatively strong showing beating some good players and learning to always trash economy.
Store Championship 4: FCB (Alpharetta)
Still running Opus Andromeda and TWIY*
Round 1: vs. Wes (NBN/Chaos Theory)
Since playing in the last round of Athens he ended up winning the one in Marietta. So naturally, I start my tournament paired with a really strong player .
I think I start by Corping. I see all 3 Eli 1.0's in the first few turns. For somebody who uses all of their influence on Siphons and Femmes, this becomes problematic as Snowball just isn't cutting it. This amazing luck let's me power through the victory (that and the knowledge that he's running Siphon!).
I don't remember much about my runner game. Probably just run super hot and steal all of the agendas. Plus, Opus don't care about Closed Accounts!
2-0, hey look I beat a really great player! This totally isn't going to be like yesterday...
Round 2: vs. Michael (GRNDL/Kate)
Same Michael as first round in Athens, same Michael who second placed in Marietta. I know he wants to kill me, and I know he wants his recurring credits.
I don't remember the order, but as Corp he cannot draw his economy and just can't outpace my TWIY* deck. As runner I can't find an Opus and he just outpaces me with the threat of my death.
3-1, another great player down and I'm fine with a split!
Round 3: vs. Jeff (HB:ETF/Chaos Theory)
I think I run first. I'm so much happier that I'm playing Opus Andy against the big Ice with threat of fast advance. I know he scores a Gila Hands early and that card just does work the rest of the game. I know at some point I need to shutdown an ice on his remote and so I Siphon him to try and save myself some credits (I still lose credits Siphoning him, but instead of losing fourteen I'm only losing four). Unfortunately, he's sitting at five points at some point so I have to run anything he puts in his remote and he knows it. Exploitation of this fact ends with me losing.
As Corp I ice R&D and HQ and then Hedge Fund. I have a Restructure in hand, so when he hits R&D I don't rez the Eli to try and gamble on getting a better Econ. Of course, this gamble isn't so sure, and he ends up peeling a Beale and an Astro off the top of R&D. Now five credits is puny and I get Siphoned a lot.
3-3
Round 4: vs. Robyn (JintekiE/Gabe)
I run first. I hit R&D with two R&D Interfaces at one point (because, YOLO). I see a Neural EMP at some point. The turn before she draws it I (very smartly) last click run a remote, eat a Fetal and Hokusai grid (don't steal the Fetal) and go down to no cards in hand. Then I remember she's drawing Neural EMP. (After the tournament, Mark (from the first round of last tournament and winner of Athens) asked me what I learned. I had forgotten about the end to this game, so I just told him I know I learned something, I just didn't remember it. Well, it turns out I learned what I always knew, don't run last click...)
As Corp I get agenda flooded. And Gabe does what Gabe does best.
3-5
Round 5: vs. Dirk (Weyland/Kit)
I corp first (I think). Astro train (Choo-choo!) wins me the game. It's further helped by the fact that poor Kit lost her Torch to a Rototurret .
I run second. At some point, I think he's only got three ice on the board, they're all Archers, and they're all rezzed. Yeah. No dogs show up for me to derez the Archers and Corporate Troubleshooter murders me.
4-6
Store Championship 5: Wasteland Gaming (Duluth)
I'm running the much fixed version of my HB:ETF deck. It runs Biotics, one SanSan, and some Haas Arcology AI. I used to run it as glacier as possible, but I've slowly lowered the cost of the ice to try and prevent myself from getting dumpstered by early Siphons. I had been experimenting with a Whizzard Nerve Agent/Demo Run deck, but couldn't make it consistent enough. I eventually went with a Kate deck that ran basic breakers, Cryspies, Opus, and splashed Shutdowns to try and prevent big ice from stopping me. HQ and R&D Interfaces to make my runs more efficient. This is the first tournament that Double Time was legal for. Nobody complained about Caprice by the end of the day...
Round 1: vs. Josh(?) (JintekiE/Chaos Theory)
I think he corps first. I have to dig for breakers early, which really sucks against Jinteki (no Levy's...) Eventually I find my Ninja and go to town running everywhere. He has Shutdown all of my Clone Chips and Akamatsu Mem Chips (YOU'LL NOT GET THE CORRODER YOU FIEND!) but he's finally run out of Power Shutdown steam and I eventually find the agendas I need with four cards in hand and none in the deck.
I corp and score a Gila Hands early and ride it out from there.
2-0
Round 2: vs. Ahmed (NBN:TWIY*/Andromeda)
To think, I gave this guy my NBN:TWIY* deck before we went to Athens and he makes top four after modifying it slightly (T_T). Oh well. I think he corps first and I can't find a breaker or tutor to save my life and lose badly.
He runs and does his pesky Andromeda things that keep me down and out
2-2
Round 3: vs. Wes (HB:ETF/Gabe)
He's not playing Chaos Theory! He's still running Siphon . He runs and scores my Efficiency Committees (why am I not running NAPD, I'm so bad at this game!) and does other Gabey things to seal the deal.
This game as Kate I find the breakers but not the economy (it's what I get for building the deck the night before!) He scores seven points before I can get completely set up.
2-4
Round 4: vs. Colby (?/Noise)
I remember losing badly. No money as corp. Don't remember the runner game. Got beat soundily.
2-6
After this tournament a handful of guys who wanted to go to SC conned convinced me to go to SC with them. (Ahmed, Wes, and Cory). I decide to go and drive us the hour and a half to the tournament. The time in the car feels quick as we just debate deck ideas and the like.
Store Championship 6: Planet Comics (Anderson, SC)
I'm (and Ahmed and Wes) are playing NBN:TWIY* with Biotic and Andromeda. Wes's Andromeda has an... interesting splash. Ahmed's finally convinced to include Same Old Thing's... and mine is Siphon-less (LOL I'M BAD), with Compromised Employees.
Round 1: vs. Wes (NBN:TWIY*/Andromeda)
I think I corp first. I find money and some decent ice. He Siphons me and Data Leaks. I want money so take it this turn instead of dealing with the Data Leak. He mills four more cards. I now kill the Data Leak after a Hedge Fund. His mills got four points, but NAPD is one (Beale the other), so he actually has to run archives twice to get all four points. Eventually I get a SanSan rezzed and Astro's and Beales get me there.
I run next. Hit a Data Raven early on HQ. Decide to go tag me (even though I'm not playing Siphon LOL). Don't think he ever even had any agendas in HQ. Tunnel visioned too hard . To be fair, though. If I had Siphon, I probably would've dug more to find the Siphon, and his Sweeps would've been better than a "pay 1 gain 3" card.
1-1
Round 2: vs. David (Weyland/Chaos Theory)
I'd actually met David once before, as he's a friend of a friend. I know he's only recently started playing.
He corps first. I think I have to mulligan and get a hand with no Plascretes. Eh, whatever, I'll try and out-money a Weyland while digging for one. I'm not really sure what happens, I just get a Kati out early and she alone powers me there. Also, Compromised Employees actually prove their worth, giving me that psuedo-link to help me out-money the corp. I find a Plascrete eventually, run R&D on third click (with aim to drop Plascrete on the fourth), but find the winning agenda instead.
He runs. I think Wraparound does an amazing amount of work as he can't quite find his fracter. SanSan and Astro's get me there (again). The final agenda I hide behind a Pop-up when he has no credits and I advance it once. He runs it with three credits, I show him the NAPD contract and score it next turn.
3-1
Round 3: vs. Ahmed (NBN:TWIY*/Andromeda)
I run first. Can my Comprimised Employees please be Siphons? They're just far too slow against this deck.
In the corp game he mulligans, (which I later find out is into triple Plascrete, two Faeries, two Suckers, and like two Dirty Laundries?, regardless, it's terrible) and I have the nuts, basically. All my agendas and Biotics and economy come in the right order. A single Enigma keeps him out of R&D and I just ride my billion credits to a victory.
4-2
Round 4: vs. ? (sorry, I forgot your name ) (Jinteki:RP/Chaos Theory)
I start by running. Think I get a Faerie early. Second turn he installs a remote, installs an ice protecting it, and takes a credit. I know he's friends with David and hasn't been playing long either, so I think maybe he's forgotten about Inside Job. I hit Archives, and Inside Job the remote. It's an Edge of World... . OK, time to try and win this with a brain damage (thank goodness it's only one!). I think I grab a Fetal and a Nisei out of R&D (the Nisei when I naturally have only one credit, because I am the luckiest MOFO alive!) Eventually he gets a Heimdall 1 on R&D that's too expensive for me to break. I hit HQ to Shutdown the Heimdall (and at least force him to rez it again) and nab a Nisei from HQ (turns out the rest of his hand was two ice, Snare!, and Shock... again, I'm a lucky man!). He has four points at this point, and install advance-advances a remote. I know I have to get the winning agenda here, especially because I'm reasonably certain it's a three pointer, and I have six cards left in my deck. I take Kati money, drop a second R&D Interface, break his Heimdall, go through his Pop-up, and top deck a three pointer. WHEW
He then runs, and scores two Astro's in the first five turns. . One turn he goes down to zero installing a Professional Contacts and clicks it once. I Biotic out a Breaking News and kill the Professional Contacts. Eventually I get a SanSan up and running with the room I created with the Breaking News play and score out Two Beales. Eventually he gets the SanSan off the table but I find an Astro and another Biotic to find the win.
6-2
It turns out the store had to close at 7 (Bible Belt on a Sunday, and all...) so it was just four rounds of swiss. I gave Ahmed his only loss and nabbed second place. Good to know that I legitematelly earned a mat. I also got the kick-ass alt art Kate deck box .
Also, I'm pretty glad that we didn't have elimination as I think I would'nt have made top two without Siphon in my deck.
The four of us who came up from Atlanta (although Wes is technically from Tuscaloosa... but I consider him an Atlantan after he came to all of the store championships!) finished first, second, third, and fifth. The guy who made fifth (Cory) probably could've nabbed fourth if one of his games wasn't a true draw that he would've eventually nabbed. All in all, a good showing for us
I should probably update this OP thing at some point.
HURRRRRNGNGGNGNGNG,
Edit:
I'm also running the HB shell/encryption deck mentioned above, only with less biotic goodness and more shell game, I drop the 3 sansans for 3 snares and 2 hokusai grids and play the out-economy game harder
Alix+ mirrormorph is incredible. Being able to put 2/4s out in the open and then biotic them next turn because the runner is so fucking shit tired of running random sexbots, hokusais, snares, encryption protocols and JACKSON MOONDANCER HOWARD is also pretty amusing.
Funnilly enough Hudson is pretty good in this deck too...
Jackson "I am your Moon King" Howard Jackson "Kneel before my Dinosaurus Army" Howard Jackson "Hold on while I disappear into my puzzle basement" Howard
On April 01 2014 15:39 Thereisnosaurus wrote: I should probably update this OP thing at some point.
HURRRRRNGNGGNGNGNG,
Edit:
I'm also running the HB shell/encryption deck mentioned above, only with less biotic goodness and more shell game, I drop the 3 sansans for 3 snares and 2 hokusai grids and play the out-economy game harder
Alix+ mirrormorph is incredible. Being able to put 2/4s out in the open and then biotic them next turn because the runner is so fucking shit tired of running random sexbots, hokusais, snares, encryption protocols and JACKSON MOONDANCER HOWARD is also pretty amusing.
Funnilly enough Hudson is pretty good in this deck too...
I never really saw the appeal of Hudson compared to Eli, since they still get a successful run for suckers/Desperado/rude siphons/medium/nerve, can spend 2 clicks just like Eli, and still access a card. It is more expensive to break using ZU/Gordian vs Corroder. You could argue that it acts like Eli #4-6, but I'd rather have other cards.
So I'm trying out a Weyland deck using oversighted big ice, Caprice and Off the Grid to push through 5/3s. Haven't had enough trial runs yet to really have a good sense for how well it performs, but it hasn't been feeling smooth to me. Anyone have any suggestions for cards that would work well with this?
I never really saw the appeal of Hudson compared to Eli, since they still get a successful run for suckers/Desperado/rude siphons/medium/nerve, can spend 2 clicks just like Eli, and still access a card. It is more expensive to break using ZU/Gordian vs Corroder. You could argue that it acts like Eli #4-6, but I'd rather have other cards.
Yeah, I ended up taking them out. I think it's still pretty good, but only in a shaper heavy meta and we're all anarch/crim still here.
jackson moondancer howard?
what the?
It's like moonwalking, but infinitely more smug and annoying.
On April 08 2014 13:44 Tooplark wrote: So I'm trying out a Weyland deck using oversighted big ice, Caprice and Off the Grid to push through 5/3s. Haven't had enough trial runs yet to really have a good sense for how well it performs, but it hasn't been feeling smooth to me. Anyone have any suggestions for cards that would work well with this?
Motherfucking corporate troubleshooter.
And ash, definitely ash.
And tollbooth.
Oh god I hate this deck so much. Sharpshooter made it 100x less annoying tho.
On April 10 2014 09:46 Whitewing wrote: So, I'm looking to start playing this game, any advice where I should look to get started?
http://www.stimhack.com is a really good site for theory, top-level decklists, and tournament LRs. Basically everything I know about how to Netran is from stimhack and this thread. Other than that, just teach your friends/siblings, or try and find people at your FLGS.
made my first attempts at decks that are both strong while also having low variance for a tournament last week, and did quite well
6-2 in swiss, then won the RO4 in 3 games (10-6, 6-10, 10-4 in the tiebreak), then in the finals i went 2-10 in the first game, and managed a 5-0 start at the runner in the final, but then he scored and astro and saw an agenda before i did
was playing HB(core) based around econ operations, biotic labor, and reclamation order. ice was cheap to reze, but beefy and taxing. runner was my super solid kate with imps deck ive been working on forever.
if you guys play, and tend to make decks that win hard or lose hard, and are getting frustrated from lucky losses in tourney... i would really recommend doing at least a one-off tourney with decks you like but are made to be consistent. it felt really nice not having to lose 5 points in like 3 turns then come back to win 7-5 as corp in over half my games.
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@whitewing: stimhack.com, teamcovenant.com, reddit.com/r/netrunner, the podcasts (terminal7, corp draw, breaking news, and netrunomicon are the ones i listen to the most myself), and apreche's youtube videos (netrunner with scott) are all pretty nice in learning some basic/intermediate stuff about the game. higher level you wanna dig with write ups by players who did well, since they tend to explain there discussions, and critically think about write ups that 'rate' things, and see if you get how they are thinking about the subject. if you can see how they see, whether you agree or not, you are looking at the game in a broader spectrum.
never played a game at all? this first then - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAslVfZ9p-Y next thing? - the r/netrunner has a new players guide on the right side of the page, some useful stuff there, but mainly has a buying guide if you dont want to explode money all over this game.
What area is that? There are a reasonable amount of areas with small local metas. Just curious where you are that you couldnt find something within reasonable distance
I've asked both major local comic stores, started a meetup group (that no one has joined), and talked to a few local MTG players. Almost nobody here plays it. I'm going to have to put flyers up or some shit. If there's gonna be a scene here, I'll basically have to create the players by teaching people.
On April 25 2014 02:09 TritaN wrote: Northwest Florida.
I've asked both major local comic stores, started a meetup group (that no one has joined), and talked to a few local MTG players. Almost nobody here plays it. I'm going to have to put flyers up or some shit. If there's gonna be a scene here, I'll basically have to create the players by teaching people.
As much as I like those guides, I felt that I had to modify them in order to give players the big picture.
When I introduced Netrunner to my friends, I did the following in order: - Discuss win objectives - Card types from corporation side (Operation, Agenda, Asset, etc) - What the corporation can do with his clicks. - Card types from runner side (Event, Icebreaker, etc) - What the runner can do with his clicks - Icebreaker vs Ice interaction - Sample game with modified decks of what were on the Stimhack guides to make them more viable.
What I felt was the most important was getting the first couple games while stepping through the game. And to not discuss deckbuilding until you feel they are ready.
> It seems like runner overall got the best pool, though there are some standout cards for corp they seem to be mostly neutral (guard, fast track)
> jinteki finally has some options for a non-net damage based strategy with mushin rush or economic shellgame styles.
> Seems like this set is overall about deck manipulation both for the corp and for the runner.
I'm looking forward to running tennin institute, an agressive mushin-HB deck with traps, project ares and mandatory upgrades, tenma and a feedback implants/overmind anarch deck.
As always, Azeltir's continually updated spoiler thread is a good resource as well. In this case, he has compiled all of the images for the entire Honor and Profit set in one post:
Packs 3 and 4 of Lunar Cycle are totally going to boost my favorite corp and runner decks respectively. I can not wait. And Blue Sun might ACTUALLY make me play Weyland.
Oh my god i'm so excited for Blue Sun. Blue Sun + Minelayer + Amazon Industrial Zone is gonna be so goofy. Blue Sun turns Oversight into a slightly delayed giga-restructure. I might even do spend most of my influence on bioroids and that bioroid-oversight so I can cycle my Wotan and Janus or something.
On May 11 2014 03:11 Tooplark wrote: Oh my god i'm so excited for Blue Sun. Blue Sun + Minelayer + Amazon Industrial Zone is gonna be so goofy. Blue Sun turns Oversight into a slightly delayed giga-restructure. I might even do spend most of my influence on bioroids and that bioroid-oversight so I can cycle my Wotan and Janus or something.
Can so imagine this happening on OCTGN...
Step 1. Install Adonis Campaign Step 2. Rez Adonis gain 3, return Adonis to HQ and gain 4 Step 3. Install Adonis Campaign Step 4. "**** has left the game!"
Had an awesome day in Portland took down the regionals . I thought I was toast I went 6-4 In Swiss, but sneaked in top 8 on breakers and went undefeated in double elim. 30 player turn out, I posted my decks on stimhack but they aren't interesting and I don't know how the meta will change yet was hoping to see more regionals results and then go from there. I did play security testing in my Andy with suckers for the jinteki decks and it worked fairly well.
very nice blue! my regional isnt till july, but theres one a few hour drive away in june. a month ago i was like 'not a fucking chance' but im itching to play so maybe...
On May 11 2014 23:07 SaetZero wrote: very nice blue! my regional isnt till july, but theres one a few hour drive away in june. a month ago i was like 'not a fucking chance' but im itching to play so maybe...
I had a ton of fun yesterday and it seems like honor and profit had a huge shake up on the meta. Good luck to you at your regionals
On May 12 2014 15:27 pachi wrote: How was the new double elim format? Did the matches feel more fulfilling
I really really enjoyed the change and they did feel more fullfilling(on my side) Considering time constraints and such I can't think of a system better than this one as of right now.
It's really different but you actually play a game of netrunner in each round instead of a game if netrunner then this weird game where you play to some weird amount of points.
I think the double elimination made for more intense games of netrunner which should be good for future spectating of events, every game was intense and Exciting instead of starting with some huge advantage or disadvantage going into game 2.
Commercialization Tennin is pretty legit. Also, Mushin no Shin is great. I like it with Unorthodox Predictions and Junebugs - if you put down a UP and they don't take it, next turn you can just install-advance-advance behind whatever ICE type they can't break, and score a 3-pointer completely uncontested. Shiro is my favorite ice of the set.
On May 15 2014 00:51 Tooplark wrote: Commercialization Tennin is pretty legit. Also, Mushin no Shin is great. I like it with Unorthodox Predictions and Junebugs - if you put down a UP and they don't take it, next turn you can just install-advance-advance behind whatever ICE type they can't break, and score a 3-pointer completely uncontested. Shiro is my favorite ice of the set.
Until the runner stimhacks a femme and gets your 3 pointer and you are a sad panda :<
On May 15 2014 00:51 Tooplark wrote: Commercialization Tennin is pretty legit. Also, Mushin no Shin is great. I like it with Unorthodox Predictions and Junebugs - if you put down a UP and they don't take it, next turn you can just install-advance-advance behind whatever ICE type they can't break, and score a 3-pointer completely uncontested. Shiro is my favorite ice of the set.
Until the runner stimhacks a femme and gets your 3 pointer and you are a sad panda :<
A lot of people think that targeted marketing is just an account siphon hater, but I found a much better use for it. Infiltration.
In H&P everyone is gonna have infiltration because of rampant jinteki decks. Play it in a Jinteki/NBN trap deck and it screws with their expose play, either they don't use infiltration which is good, or they do and you get 10 credits.
They use infiltration and you rez zaibatsu loyalty, gain 9 credits and expose nothing. Better yet use it in a midseason deck, you put out a tgtbt in the open and they infiltrate it, then when they run it you midseason them with your 10 extra credits.
I played in a second regionals on Saturday, June 14th in Seattle. There were 77? players total. 9 of us from Portland made the trip up, and 5 of us made the top 8(6 made the top 16). Was really a lot of fun, and I had an absolute blast, so happy all of my friends did so well. 1st, 2nd,3rd, and 4th were Portland players. I played NBN and Andromeda again to a 2nd place finish, they were very close to what I won with in Portland regionals, although decks changed somewhat. This time around, we had video of the top 16 elimination matches, so make sure to check out my friends(the winner of the tournament) youtube channel "Cascade Collective" if you want to see some good games of Netrunner or are bored. Beware, a few of the games some of the players were fairly fatigued. Playing from 1 pm to 3am is a lot of brain power. A long day of Netrunner is more mentally draining then a day of MTG for me personally. I'm sure there is some kind of graph where after a certain amount of hours of gaming at your best your skill level just plummets :D.
Much like Bluebird, I too got second in a regionals in a tough field.
I placed second in the Durham regionals. You can see the finals between me and Jesse here:
There were a lot of great players from the Carolinas and the DC area (which I know is a strong meta), so it was quite an achievement. I might've used up a lot of luck to get there, too.
Sadly, I didn't use stimhack on my last run . Could've won this thing T_T
My runner deck was based on my practise partner/regionals winner/noise fanatic's Noise deck with some changes to fit my style (ie. the inexplicable need to facecheck things).
I had one game on video but its not up yet and I played badly against a NBN perfect draw.
Also of note is thread creator Thereisnosaurus placed 15th at the event (Report).
My runner deck was based on my practise partner/regionals winner/noise fanatic's Noise deck with some changes to fit my style (ie. the inexplicable need to facecheck things).
I had one game on video but its not up yet and I played badly against a NBN perfect draw.
Also of note is thread creator Thereisnosaurus placed 15th at the event (Report).
I really like both of those Noise decks. They both have the "no tricks, I'm just going to run down whichever server I think will give me the biggest benefit" style which I love! I'm certainly going to have to give them a try!
On August 30 2014 18:34 Thereisnosaurus wrote: Latest set just got spoiled, and I wrote up a review here:
I've been blogging there for a while, I should really get around to updating the OP here >.>
Nice article. I am going to be trying out refractor .
Netrunner is as popular as ever our 8 week league with achievements just finished up here in Portland. We seem to be getting lots of new players and such, and we have a single core set constructed tournament coming up which a lot of players are looking forward too.
Really really excited about the next big box though, I'm hoping we get some powerful runner cards.
just bought 2 core sets for my first venture into anr. disappointed to see netrunnerdb is shut down as soon as i take an interest to the game. guess i cant miss what i never had i suppose
I knew there was a thread for this! As a new player, I'm also disappointed that NetrunnerDB was closed, it was by far one of the easiest tools to use and the way FFG handled the situation worries me.
Despite this, the game does seem pretty awesome though I'm lacking experience. Is there some sort of group going in OCTGN? Would be up for some beginner games.
On September 22 2014 21:17 wrathofanima wrote: I knew there was a thread for this! As a new player, I'm also disappointed that NetrunnerDB was closed, it was by far one of the easiest tools to use and the way FFG handled the situation worries me.
Despite this, the game does seem pretty awesome though I'm lacking experience. Is there some sort of group going in OCTGN? Would be up for some beginner games.
Use this for now, though I don't know how long it'll last for. It's "privately mirrored for personal use" http://95.215.44.196/
So I'm trying to come up with what to bring to world's...
And I just cannot find a corp deck better than dumb as hell Astrobiotics. I despise playing the deck/playing against the deck, but when I go like 5-1 against the #3 player at GenCon I can't really say no.
Please somebody give me a good enough corp deck that I don't have to play that trash.
I think what you really want is a deck that can take on prepaid kate, because that's what you're going to see most of and if you can mess with that you can mess with a lot.
However, you're also going to want to be able to deal with quetzal and noise, I think anarchs are going to make some big resurgence because they seem to be the best way of dealing with NEH right now. Not in the sense that they have the best gameplan, but in the sense that they punish vulnerabilities exceptionally hard, and NEH relies on being able to be just a little bit vulnerable and the runner not being able to capitalise on it because it all happens so fast.
I think modern HB fast advance is a good option, lots of draw and operation economy, next ice and premium imports, biotic labours and 3/1s + domestic sleepers to get you over the line. Something like this:
Ice (17) 1x Archer ●● 3x Caduceus ●●●●●● 3x Eli 1.0 1x Ichi 1.0 2x Inazuma ●●●● 1x Mother Goddess 3x NEXT Bronze 3x NEXT Silver
Operation (15) 2x Archived Memories 3x Biotic Labor 3x Blue Level Clearance 3x Hedge Fund 2x Restructure 2x Successful Demonstration
As for runner decks, I've been testing this:
Identity: Shapers: Rielle 'Kit' Peddler
Cards: 45 / 45 Influence: 10 / 10
Event (23) 3x Diesel 3x Dirty Laundry 2x Escher 2x Lucky Find ●●●● 2x Quality Time 2x Scavenge 3x Sure Gamble 3x Test Run 3x The Makers Eye
Hardware (8) 3x Clone Chip 3x Prepaid VoicePAD 2x The Personal Touch
Program (12) 3x Datasucker ●●● 1x Inti 2x Leprechaun 1x Paintbrush 1x Parasite ●● 3x Self-Modifying Code 1x Yog.0 ●
Resource (2) 2x Same Old Thing
It's a very streamlined, aggressive Kit deck that can put pressure on the corp constantly and never give them a break. Importantly, it can do this very, very efficiently. It's tooled to get through all the obnoxious ice that NEH plays- eli, lotus field, wraparound etc. The basic idea is an early yog-sucker to let you apply pressure, then PPVP fueled test run parasite recursion using the data sucker counters you build up to keep the icefield manageable, along with Escher to reset the board if they commit everything to stabilizing and keeping you out.
The big advantages of it over kate is that it gets going quicker and once it's going it's extremely credit efficient to run, so you can keep constant pressure on.
Against NEH your rig is probably going to be yog (with PT), parasite, sucker, inti. Against slower decks with beefier ice you want to find a leprechaun and mount a paintbrush on it alongside the inti (if you need it) or a second datasucker.
I'm planning on playing my Imp Recursion Kate deck and my HB Redcoats at worlds. Trashing 5+ cards that are important to the corp every turn while I stimhack Atmans for no install cost to plug the holes is really aggressive and its not a big deck in the meta... so a lot of people don't know what to do vs it.
That and I have been playing imp recursion as my main and best deck since C+C. Still my fav, still my best, and super experienced vs everything with it. Though I need to practice it HARD vs RP Glacier. I struggle with that still.
HB Redcoats is just that perfect level of annoying and stupid fast that I love. GRNDL Ref and possibly that NBN Asset coming out are gonna be so fucking nice, can't wait.
EPT![[image loading]](http://gsa.thegamernation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/netrunnertitle.png)
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). I'm still new to Netrunner so making friends still, so yeah this part sucked 
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