I mean you can say the same thing about choice band azu. Any pokemon that resists the last move it just used is going to get a free turn, which isn't what you really want in a competitive environment. god forbid your opponent has something like mega mawile and comes in on play rough and gets a free swords dance. thats game ending

aqua jet leaves you even more open so im being fairly generous at that

Kyuukyuu

Canada6263 Posts

November 29 2013 00:03 GMT

#3082

i think it mostly revolves around azu not being that great haha his choices are pretty limited. we seem just be saying "stuff that resists cb aqua jet will kill it/force it out" vs. "stuff that resists bd aqua jet will kill it/force it out", he's just not the best mon out there. i like cb more because it requires less teambuilding focus on him, and since he's easily forced out or at the very least revenge killed with either set i don't like all the setup needed

rebdomine

6040 Posts

November 29 2013 00:20 GMT

#3083

CB azu is more of a bulky revenge killer and more of a utility pokemon, whereas with a BD set, you have to tailor your team to taking out what stops his +6 Aqua Jet sweeps.

The BD set will work but requires you to build the team around him as opposed to having him be a complementary pokemon to whatever is your main sweeper.

Fishgle

United States2174 Posts

November 29 2013 01:46 GMT

#3084

Yea i'd be running him as a revenge killer / pivot. And the reason for Bulldoze is purely to counter Qwilfish :3 - I'm also thinking about running expert belt instead of CB, and try tricking people into thinking i'm running CB. ionno. I'm too used to playig online where i can change my entire team on a whim.

Kyuukyuu

Canada6263 Posts

November 29 2013 03:09 GMT

#3085

I'm liking Assault Vest a lot, any suggestions for what to put it on? I've used it with Clawitzer and Tyranitar, just as a fun item and it's worked out pretty well.

rebdomine

6040 Posts

November 29 2013 03:19 GMT

#3086

Try out Conkeldurr. He can even be bred to have Drain Punch so he will have some form of offensive recovery.

Snorlax also might be able to pull it off. He already has natural SpD bulk which will allow you to invest into his Def.

And everyone seems to be trying out AV Goodra.

Not sure if you're asking for purely in-game suggestions, but I've seen people run AV on Tornadus-T as he can pivot nicely what with access to U-Turn and Regenerator keeping him healthy.

FireSA

Australia555 Posts

November 29 2013 04:14 GMT

#3087

Hmm re: VGC doubles team, really having a hard time deciding which mega I want, though pretty sure I want mega kangashkan or mega mawile, but I don't quite know the pros and cons of each, mainly because I don't know the stats, maybe.
They use similar moves, no? Both have fake out? Both have sucker punch, maybe? Kangashkan usually has EQ, mawile....no idea? And then mawile has fairy typing which is sick, and Kangashkan still has alright typing? Someone who is more knowledgeable than me on these guys please fill me in

rebdomine

6040 Posts

November 29 2013 05:09 GMT

#3088

On November 29 2013 13:14 FireSA wrote:
Hmm re: VGC doubles team, really having a hard time deciding which mega I want, though pretty sure I want mega kangashkan or mega mawile, but I don't quite know the pros and cons of each, mainly because I don't know the stats, maybe.
They use similar moves, no? Both have fake out? Both have sucker punch, maybe? Kangashkan usually has EQ, mawile....no idea? And then mawile has fairy typing which is sick, and Kangashkan still has alright typing? Someone who is more knowledgeable than me on these guys please fill me in

Kang usually goes Return, Sucker Punch, Power Up Punch, Earthquake. She might be the better choice for Doubles as her PuPs are basically Swords Dance and Brick Break in a single move.

She has a passable base 100 Speed. And he has good bulk too (105 HP, 100 on both defenses) and is thus incredibly hard to take down. She is able to take a hit and hit back really really hard. Her Normal typing also means fighting types are the only weakness she has. A bulky Togekiss with Follow Me should be able to sponge all hits aimed at Kang while he powers up with PuP and just roflstomps everyone later on with Helping Hand Returns.

Mawile on the other hand has Huge Power. While his defenses are upgraded to passable bases (125, 95 Def and SpD respectively), he still has a paltry 50 base HP which kind of cripples him in that regard. He still can't really take a hit. He also still has base 50 speed so anything that can take a Sucker Punch will be able to dent him hard.

Most common sets for Mawile are: Swords Dance, Sucker Punch, Play Rough, Iron Head. He has coverage options in the form of the fang moves. However, I do believe that set up moves in doubles aren't really that useful (as you risk taking two attacks).

One of Mawile's doubles drawbacks is the weakness to Fire and Ground, the latter of which is a pretty common spread move in doubles (Earthquake).

tl;dr
Use Kang over Mawile unless you are going to run Trick Room.

FireSA

Australia555 Posts

November 29 2013 06:07 GMT

#3089

Thanks Reb, could not have asked for a better summary, thanks very much

Trumpet

United States1935 Posts

November 29 2013 06:32 GMT

#3090

Is iron head more common than fire fang on mawile? I've been running fire fang and I can't imagine not having it

(Then again I dont play doubles, so that could be it)

rebdomine

6040 Posts

November 29 2013 06:44 GMT

#3091

boosted neutral Sucker Punches should do enough damage to whatever you want to hit with Fire Fang (which would be opposing steels)

showdown data suggests his most common moves are the ones I listed above, but Iron Head is probably the move easiest to replace with an appropriate coverage move for the team.

If Mawile has trouble killing stuff with Sucker Punch, he's in a bit of a bind because of his base 50 HP and 50 Speed. He needs a bit of help in the setup department but he really dents a lot of stuff with +2 Sucker Punches.

BlueBird.

United States3890 Posts

November 29 2013 10:13 GMT

#3092

Togekiss isn't vgc legal. So probably need a different partner

rebdomine

6040 Posts

November 29 2013 14:44 GMT

#3093

aw snap. forgot about that kalos-native only.

what was the point of making them available in the safari and not let them be in vgc. lol.

Drazerk

United Kingdom31255 Posts

November 29 2013 14:53 GMT

#3094

I thought Kalos native just meant it had that pyramid thing next the the pokemon meaning you bred it in game not just ported it over so Togekiss is legal.

Pokémon which have been transferred from Generation V using Pokémon Bank are not allowed. You can breed these Pokémon to raise a new Pokémon, but you cannot use the Pokémon that were transferred.

nmd reread section 9

KalWarkov

Germany4126 Posts

November 29 2013 18:49 GMT

#3095

anyone?

need one of those 4 to finish my team (for free, have basically nothing to trade)

[Mega-Venausaur, Vaporeon, Despotar, Dragonair, Garchomp]

Zubat 31/x/31/x/31/31
Munchlax / Thick fat 31/x/31/x/31/x
Torchic 31/x/x/31/x/31
Riolu 31/31/x/x/x/31

PM me if you have anyone of those to spare :D

Fishgle

United States2174 Posts

November 29 2013 23:32 GMT

#3096

Well I spent the last hour or so trading away a box full of aborted marills (adamant + 3iv + egg moves) on wondertrade. I got a 3x Smeargle, 4x Charmander, 3x Togepi, 3x Aron, 3x Female Adamant Axew, and a female japanese Rough Skin Gible with Egg moves. Not bad imo. I expected to get a ton of bibarels and lvl3 pidgeys. How's everyone's experience with wondertrade been so far?

PM me if you want 4iv adamant Marills with HugePower and egg moves. I've got 6 females and 6 males. I'd like a female charmander, but really i'll take anything.

biology]major

United States2253 Posts

November 30 2013 01:55 GMT

#3097

how many of the older generation pokemon can you get in these (noob to these new games). I read this thread and have no clue what the hell anyone is talking about lol

Fishgle

United States2174 Posts

November 30 2013 02:19 GMT

#3098

They really went for nostalgia this gen, you even get the original starters. lots of old pokemon in the wild too.

Ushio

Canada868 Posts

November 30 2013 03:29 GMT

#3099

Made a rain dance team just for fun, had a few battles and its actually pretty decent. The team does have some flaws but its fun to use

. Rain dance/swift swim combo lets you put on the hurt and pretty much nothing will outspeed you outside of Choice Scarf Greninja or something. Also the constant healing on Tentacruel is bonkers. I've had the Mega Ampharos 6-0 teams, absolutely deadly.

Modest Politoed 252 SpA 252 Spe Damp Rock/ Drizzle + Show Spoiler [Politoed] +

Hydro Pump/ Perish Song/ Psychic/ Ice Beam

Careful Tentacruel 252 HP 252 SpD Leftovers/ Rain Dish + Show Spoiler [Tentacruel] +

Aqua Ring/ Toxic/ Venoshock/ Rapid Spin

Modest Kingdra 252 SpA 252 Spe Life Orb/ Swift Swim + Show Spoiler [Kingdra] +

Flash Cannon/ Draco Meteor/ Surf/ Signal Beam

Jolly Kabutops 252 Atk 252 Spe Focus Sash/Swift Swim + Show Spoiler [Kabutops] +

Swords Dance/ Aerial Ace/ Stone Edge/ Waterfall

Modest Ampharos 252 SpA 252 Spe Ampharosite/ Static + Show Spoiler [Ampharos] +

Thunderbolt/ Dragon Pulse/ Focus Blast/ Agility

Impish Ferrothorn 252 HP 252 Def Rocky Helmet/ Iron Barbs + Show Spoiler [ Ferrothorn] +

Stealth Rock/ Thunder Wave/ Spikes/ Power Whip

Mysticesper

United States1183 Posts

November 30 2013 03:46 GMT

#3100

On November 29 2013 23:53 Drazerk wrote:
I thought Kalos native just meant it had that pyramid thing next the the pokemon meaning you bred it in game not just ported it over so Togekiss is legal.

Pokémon which have been transferred from Generation V using Pokémon Bank are not allowed. You can breed these Pokémon to raise a new Pokémon, but you cannot use the Pokémon that were transferred.

nmd reread section 9

The rules state it needs to be in the Kalos Dex, which is different than Kalos native.
The blue pentagon thing indicates it is Kalos native / "okay to play" (bred / caught)