Which military idea do you guys normally get first? my noobish-ness made me always get the quantity idea, but now that I have played the game for more time I am kind of leaning away from it.

Alzadar

Canada5009 Posts

October 08 2014 17:12 GMT

#1602

Offensive is IMO the best by a long shot. Every idea except -10% Recruitment Time (still decent) is really good, and Forced March is a game changer for catching routed armies. Defensive is my #2 pick, every idea is useful but not quite as impactful.

Quality has some good ideas but 3 of them are garbage Naval ideas. Quantity probably isn't too bad but given things like combat width and supply limits, smaller stronger army is better than bigger, weaker.

Naval has good ideas but you'd have to really want naval superiority.

Plutocratic/Aristocratic are kind of all over the place, not really military focused.

Another thing: you get events based on which idea groups you pick. Offensive seems to give mostly good events, but whenever I've picked Defensive I get tons of negative Tradition events.

ShiaoPi

TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts

October 08 2014 17:15 GMT

#1603

I really like going for offensive as first military idea, you get a lot of early value out of the first shock point you get and having "relatively" early forced march is really good for the stackwipes. If you prefer something more on the manpower side the aristocratic idea is quite good as well in my opinion.
The last first military idea I tend to get is defensive. you get more army tradition which is great in so many different ways (especially if you also play prussia/brandenburg) and the early bonus to morale makes it a solid contender against the shock heavier ideas I mentioned above.

Alzadar

Canada5009 Posts

October 08 2014 17:23 GMT

#1604

I really wonder what made them choose "+5% Recover navy morale speed" in Quality. Navy Morale is already really irrelevant (arguably bad?), recover speed is even more negligible and 5% is such a small boost.

419

Russian Federation3631 Posts

October 08 2014 17:27 GMT

#1605

if you're going to go defensive, its better to do so as an early pick. Morale generally becomes less valuable when the game goes on, because at a point morale reaches such high levels that full regiments can be wiped before they retreat.

Incidentally, here's a list of what unit you will 'steal' from a given tech group's cores, assuming you are matching their cannon type. A must if you're playing a no-reform Horde game. For reference, your starting inf and cav have 4 and 6 pips:

+ Show Spoiler +

Western

9-11 - inf (5)
12-13 - cav (8)
14 - inf (10)
15-17 - cav (10)
18- inf (12)
19-25 - inf (15 / 17@23)
26-end - cav (20 / 22@28)

Eastern

10-11 - inf (6)
12-13 - cav (9)
14-18 - inf (11 / 12@15)
19-21 - cav (13)
22-25-inf (14)
26-27-cav (18)
28-29-inf (20)
30-32-cav (20)

Ottoman

5-11 - inf (5 / 7@9)
12-17 - cav (10)
18-25 - inf (11 / 13@19 / 15@23)
26-32 - cav (17 / 18@28)

Gladness

United States59 Posts

October 08 2014 18:33 GMT

#1606

On October 09 2014 01:54 URfavHO wrote:
Which military idea do you guys normally get first? my noobish-ness made me always get the quantity idea, but now that I have played the game for more time I am kind of leaning away from it.

Offensive is really, really good.

The worst problem with the Naval ideas is that they just don't help. You win naval wars with your pocketbook, not your ideas.

Defensive is attractive in the early game, but I've never really played a game where that's what I needed. Allies make and break those early wars, and allies don't understand my wars of attrition. With AI bonuses, a war of attrition is usually futile anyway. The army tradition is amazing if you're not perpetually at war, but I'd rather get that from Innovative and its sweet, sweet bonus to Calvinist Reformation procs.

Aristocratic is not as awful as it used to be. (But perhaps it just doesn't *look* as bad because I know more about the game.) It matches the +1 shock from Offensive and offers 10 cavalry discipline instead of 5 global disc. The +1 fire is weak in the early game while cavalry and shock rolls are strong. Aristocratic gives you extra military points where Offensive gives siege and prestige. Offensive is still better (forced march!), but if you're an OPM who won't be fighting your own wars you might want Aristocratic before Offensive.

Quantity is good since they gave it buffs a patch or two ago. If it pushes you from a position of depending on allies to being able to spearhead your own wars, it's amazing. If you're already steam rolling the world, it's lackluster at best.

Quality I just don't have experience with. In case it's not obvious, "combat ability +10%" means 10% discipline to those units. I do not know if that stacks additively or multiplicatively with your global discipline.

Offensive is really, really good.

419

Russian Federation3631 Posts

October 08 2014 18:44 GMT

#1607

Quantity is also a viable pick for no-reform horde games, as when your own units are obsolete, you cannot mass-mercenary to preserve manpower (as you have to use stolen cores). In addition, offensive no longer provides a manpower bonus.

Alzadar

Canada5009 Posts

October 08 2014 18:57 GMT

#1608

How does the Horde unit stealing work exactly? The wiki doesn't even mention that mechanic.

419

Russian Federation3631 Posts

October 08 2014 19:03 GMT

#1609

its actually not restricted to horde, any non-western can do it pretty sure.

Basically if you have a core, and another alive nation has a core on it, you can build the lowest pip unit that they can build and you can't build. The lowest pip is usually artillery, which means you have to match their artillery type to be able to build something useful.

Limitless9000

United States18 Posts

October 09 2014 00:58 GMT

#1610

Yea seems like the they need to up the difficulty big time. It becomes so easy after a set point, and the enemies become like a roll of dominos 😛

419

Russian Federation3631 Posts

October 09 2014 02:25 GMT

#1611

I suggest Mongolia or Orleannais if you're looking for interesting starts

RvB

Netherlands6272 Posts

October 09 2014 05:10 GMT

#1612

Najd is fun as well although not as hard I think. Start with poor provinces with half shia and half sunni.
In the mid game I had to fight a big Ottomans and still complete Timurids as allies while I was behind in tech.

Bojas

Netherlands2397 Posts

October 10 2014 07:51 GMT

#1613

I'd take offensive over defensive if I am a major power at any point in the game. Forced March by itsself is superiour to every other military idea group. You can take perfect fights without effort if your opponent doesn't have it. Also you can cancel Force March by pressing M on the last day before arrival and it won't cost you anything. It seems overpowered to me. It really should drain morale/manpower while you use it, to make it more realistic.

The morale bonus from defensive might be worth it early game if you're small/weak and really dependent on winning your first wars. Think Teutonic Order, Italian minors, Novgorod, Scotland etc.

nttea

Sweden4353 Posts

October 10 2014 10:07 GMT

#1614

A very interesting thing i read somewhere is that aristocratics core cost idea will make other nations not desire your provinces(as much or at all?) So you won't get the relationship penalties for that, could be useful for some situations!

Bojas

Netherlands2397 Posts

October 10 2014 12:39 GMT

#1615

On October 10 2014 19:07 nttea wrote:
A very interesting thing i read somewhere is that aristocratics core cost idea will make other nations not desire your provinces(as much or at all?) So you won't get the relationship penalties for that, could be useful for some situations!

Yeah but who gives a crap about relations?
http://imgur.com/gN1kgd7

T.T

Maybe I pissed off a few too many.

Alzadar

Canada5009 Posts

October 10 2014 17:06 GMT

#1616

Dev Diary 8

Sorties don't seem very useful unless garrison size changes. I also wonder who (if anyone) get the defender bonuses in a sortie. Are sortie armies always leaderless?

Abandoning idea groups doesn't seem very useful either, usually I end up with more idea slots than monarch points.

I really like the North Africa changes, will really spice up that area.

Yurie

12082 Posts

October 10 2014 17:28 GMT

#1617

On October 11 2014 02:06 Alzadar wrote:
Dev Diary 8

Sorties don't seem very useful unless garrison size changes. I also wonder who (if anyone) get the defender bonuses in a sortie. Are sortie armies always leaderless?

I think Sortie will be VERY useful. Imagine a 1k stack with a general on your side. 3k besieging a province. Move the stack to it, sortie 2k from the fort and you have a 3v3 instead of a 1v3. An easy force multiplier in any defensive war when wanting to clean up siege stacks.

Sbrubbles

Brazil5776 Posts

October 10 2014 17:51 GMT

#1618

Sorties are there to eliminate 2-unit carpet sieging it seems. Also, it's a good buff to the defending country, which is quite valid, I think.

419

Russian Federation3631 Posts

October 10 2014 19:54 GMT

#1619

good game mechanic, also a pretty substantial buff to France, as now you can't 1-stack carpet them after wiping them the first time.

JIJI_

United States123 Posts

October 10 2014 19:59 GMT

#1620

doing the nadj jihad achievement right now......lol just my luck ottos turn orthodox i have never seen that b4 LOL....

sucks because it took me like WAY longer to kill the mamlacks because i couldnt get an alliance with ottos with them being orthodox

i am at yr 1650ish right now with like 180ish provinces do u guys think i still have a chance or should i just restart? i have westernized alrdy.