EPTEuropa Universalis IV - Page 10
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Fallen33
United States596 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 14 2013 04:57 Fallen33 wrote: IS anybody else having an extremely hard time getting an economy going? or am i doing something completely wrong? Even if I don't start any wars, etc, i'm still constantly having to draw loans out of the bank. before anybody asks, i'm not going over (or anywhere near) the unit limits and i try to limit the diplomats that i buy since they cost so damn much It's probably the advisors still. It's not about "limiting it", most nations just can't afford them at all initially. I only hire one for a short time when I need his specific bonus, then fire him right away after he gives me what I needed. I'm always in the red while having one. Other than that, you manage it by dropping upkeep for your army and navy. Which can be dangerous for obvious reasons, so only do it when you feel safe. And by safe I mean not only from other nations, but also potential rebellions. Trade is a super good way to make money for smaller nations. Note that by building Light Ships (ie Barques) and sending them on a "Protect Trade" mission, you're getting a significant trade power boost - especially if other members of your trade node don't do the same, which they usually don't. Playing as Ulster, I've managed to overpower England in London trade node while they were squabbling with France and using their fleet to fight. After a couple trade ideas and tech/building advantage over England, I now manage a solid +2.5 income from the node (equal with England with their fleet around), which is more than enough to cover the expenses of having one, maybe two, advisors permanently employed. | ||
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Ramong
Denmark1706 Posts
You might want to take the trade or the economic idea group first and get some ideas in there before you advance tech. I have been doing that myself | ||
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mTwRINE
Germany318 Posts
Read on if you care  .Dropped the dead provinces right away, went for Ireland and Scotland later and took everything within a few decades. Getting Naval Ideas first aiming for the +100% naval forcelimit, makin some tradeships and dominating North Sea (75+), London (75+ without merchant/naval) and Bordeaux (60). Building the moneybuildings, skipping tradepower ones, since noone basically competes with me in London, I can use my investements very well and suddenly +20 gold/month ez gold ez life. Going for a bit of exploring and starting to colonise with second idea (diplo again) which is not perfect but okish since I wont invest into naval idea anymore probably. France has 9 big ships so I man up and go for like 14, get advisors, then protestantism starts and things become complicated. Half my provinces with -4 tolerance dropping income, rebels everywhere (have to max maintenance), france becomes stronger in bordeaux and we hit +/-0 per month. England starts with 0/0/0 leader, 2nd was 1/2/3 3rd right now 2/3/2 so 80 years into the game Im like 3k behind on every pointclass and I just hit admin tech level10 which means 3rd Idea to unlock. My Ruler is 66 so dead soon while my Heir is very nice 6/3/0 but 49, Im ahead in Military Tech, but my new Ruler will have 0 so I wont have overflowing points there anymore and its obviously not directly needed anyway and I cant really go for another diplo Idea even if they would be more useful. 1 or 2 more merchants would make my New World trade explode but then im stuck with 3 diplo techs and admin points are very scarce anyway, but with +6 ruler it could work out, depending on how long he will live ... So I decided to grab Admin Idea but they are all very interesting: Innovation: Prestige always good, -Techcost always good, Naval and Army Trad. always good, wouldnt go further Religious: Could be very handy right now or later on for very large empire, but not sure how long/hard the religious turmoil will be, so maybe wasted points there Spy: Better Embargo as first point? You could fuck everyone as England with that, dominate trade and force them into seawars. And as money probably gets less important lategame, the whole Ideagroup seems very strong. Eco: More Tax, cheaper buildings very good, but wouldnt go further. Admin: Cant see the use as big player. So shortterm Eco best, short-mid probably Religious, mid-endgame Spy or Innovation. Also Eco hits with 2 Points, everything afterwards kinda useless, Spy hits hard with first point, good things afterwards but optional, Innovation needs kind of 3. better 4 points to fire and Religion would also need 4. I could sit here 1 hour foreseeing how game could develop to make the right call but too much randomness (especially leaderwise) and inexperience so Ill just go with Spys, hope my economy survives and I can annoy people later with it. But just thinking about how I want to progress is so much fun in itself! | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
o well. | ||
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
As stated before, forget the +2 +3 advisors unless you can really afford them. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14104 Posts
trying to make Oman work. I think I'll make it work but god damm once I take one problem down another one comes from the beast I created to kill that problem. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 14 2013 09:47 Sub40APM wrote: ah i see paradox ai is still paradox ai. lessons learned (a) never ally with a minor because they will start a dumb war, drag you into it and wont settle for peace until whoever their enemy comes in and tries to occupy you (b) never bother sieging anything in a coaltion war against a bigger enemy, the ai coaltion leader will always settle for a stupid peace despite you having 10 french provinces under siege and every french army dead because screw you thats why. o well. You can actually prevent coalition leaders from negotiating on your behalf by unchecking the box on the war screen and negotiate your own peace. You take something like a -25 (15?) relations hit if you peace out before the coalition leader does, but that's not all that significant and doesn't last very long. | ||
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
also i see they took the causi belli against anyone waging war on the papal states, which means the papal states dont exit by 1490. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On August 14 2013 10:59 Talin wrote: You can actually prevent coalition leaders from negotiating on your behalf by unchecking the box on the war screen and negotiate your own peace. You take something like a -25 (15?) relations hit if you peace out before the coalition leader does, but that's not all that significant and doesn't last very long. Yeah, but this is only if you can peace out early, setting that option doesn't stop the alliance leader from making peace and forcing you out. That option stops the alliance leader from taking/giving you provinces, it doesn't stop them from forcing the war to an end. I was owning the mameluks as ottomans after a really tough war and was finally turning it around... a few more months and I would have gotten at least one province (which I had a core on!) but NOOO, the alliance leader tapped out just as I was starting to get enough warscore. White peace... | ||
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
On August 14 2013 16:43 Tobberoth wrote: Yeah, but this is only if you can peace out early, setting that option doesn't stop the alliance leader from making peace and forcing you out. That option stops the alliance leader from taking/giving you provinces, it doesn't stop them from forcing the war to an end. I was owning the mameluks as ottomans after a really tough war and was finally turning it around... a few more months and I would have gotten at least one province (which I had a core on!) but NOOO, the alliance leader tapped out just as I was starting to get enough warscore. White peace... Sometimes that makes sense though. If the leader is really desperate for peace due to war exhaustion or attrition they would accept white peace asap. If only the AI in EU3 would do this more freely... I often see AI's run their entire nation to ruin from not wanting to lose a war they clearly can't win. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On August 14 2013 17:57 Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote: Sometimes that makes sense though. If the leader is really desperate for peace due to war exhaustion or attrition they would accept white peace asap. If only the AI in EU3 would do this more freely... I often see AI's run their entire nation to ruin from not wanting to lose a war they clearly can't win. Sure it does make sense, but it's quite annoying when you've invested a lot in the war and is left with nothing even though you'll win it singlehandedly in just a few months. I guess there's really no option since players would break the game if they could always do their own peace in every war they are dragged into, but still, it's both annoying from a gaming perspective and unrealistic... I mean, what country would go for a white peace when their ally has just crushed the whole army of their opponent and is already occupying 50% of their provinces? | ||
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mTwRINE
Germany318 Posts
On August 14 2013 12:45 MattBarry wrote: Seems like multiplayer is easy to hop in and play now. We should get a TL game going, newcomers and veterans alike This is Steamgroup, but not sure how fast we should try to set a game up. Some balance patches/mods could help improving the experience and it could be hard to find at least 4, better 6 dedicated players for some hours every week. | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
I picked Korea for obvious reasons. First mission was "Improve your relations with Ming(China)". I was like : Great ! By doing this they wont go to war against me. Finished the mission and one year later Ming attacked me and killed me and it was not even close. So... Yeah. On the second try I decided to do some attacking. So, I made some units and attacked Manchu... They kicked my ass too and on top of that Ming decided to attack me and that was it. So my question is: Is it possible to make one of the smaller nations work or at the end of the day the big ones will always kill you ? Also what do you do when everyone around you hates you ? With Korea all of my neighbors hated me - can't do alliance or marriage or anything. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On August 14 2013 21:01 Pr0wler wrote: My experience with that game so far: I picked Korea for obvious reasons. First mission was "Improve your relations with Ming(China)". I was like : Great ! By doing this they wont go to war against me. Finished the mission and one year later Ming attacked me and killed me and it was not even close. So... Yeah. On the second try I decided to do some attacking. So, I made some units and attacked Manchu... They kicked my ass too and on top of that Ming decided to attack me and that was it. So my question is: Is it possible to make one of the smaller nations work or at the end of the day the big ones will always kill you ? Also what do you do when everyone around you hates you ? With Korea all of my neighbors hated me - can't do alliance or marriage or anything. Like I said a few pages back, this seems to be a pretty big issue in EU4 so far, compared to EU3 where you could succeed with anybody. But yeah, if a big blob wants you and you're the first target, there seems to be absolutely nothing you can do no matter what. Other than lowering difficulty (which represents AI aggressiveness towards you), but I'm not sure even that would help and it would ruin the game later on anyway. | ||
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mTwRINE
Germany318 Posts
On August 14 2013 21:01 Pr0wler wrote: My experience with that game so far: I picked Korea for obvious reasons. First mission was "Improve your relations with Ming(China)". I was like : Great ! By doing this they wont go to war against me. Finished the mission and one year later Ming attacked me and killed me and it was not even close. So... Yeah. On the second try I decided to do some attacking. So, I made some units and attacked Manchu... They kicked my ass too and on top of that Ming decided to attack me and that was it. So my question is: Is it possible to make one of the smaller nations work or at the end of the day the big ones will always kill you ? Also what do you do when everyone around you hates you ? With Korea all of my neighbors hated me - can't do alliance or marriage or anything. First important thing: EU4 isnt fast paced. If you play a weak nation, you sit, improve, wait and hope for the best. Depending on your rolls/nation this goes from 50 to 150 years before you could maybe force an opening. While waiting: On August 13 2013 08:11 mTwRINE wrote: Warfare is a complex topic, so just a few basics which might already help. Keep close to your unitlimit as standing army with minimum maintenance and increase that when war starts. Techlevel, Ideas, Leaders all factor into strength, also if someone attacks over river and other minor things. Attrition is very costly for big stacks, keep 1k stacks on your borders, use scorched earth in your outer provinces when some major delcares war, fall back to gather and let them siege there a few month and 20k will go to 5k while you should wait with your single doomstack with x+1/x inf/cav somewhere in the back. Alliances are also pretty useful, the AI will put quite an effort to help you if they agree to and they also act smarter now, like stacking with your units. When your economy is strong enough and you net a few extra ducats with max maintenance, check diplomapview every other month and wait for big neighbours to start wars and make swift strikes to grab a province or two every decade. There are many things influencing your opportunities, but thats a rough guideline for starters. Again: Dont rush things, EU4 takes time. My own Korea game went: Turtled up, 50 years into the game Manchu declared war on me, I fought them back as describes above and grabbed 2 provinces. Went for naval ideas because blockades/embargos are very strong and japan/ming would suffer with a smaller navy. Was able to ally Oriat hordes who were willing to aid me in every single war afterwards (and yet far away so I could accept their wars without getting engaged) and Japan declared war on me because I kicked them out of Nippon trade node with embargo and they stood no chance vs my navy and I could grab the western 3 provinces on that island with alot smaller army because they couldnt cross vs navy blocking path. Everything was going very well, Ming got destroyed a few times by coalition and then I overextended ... Went to war with Japan main Island, trying to grab stuff there with their +25% discipline fighting really hurts and while drying up my manpower 10k Rebels in 0 revoltrisk mainland province appeared, so I recruit 10k new soldiers, getting deep into red with 35/25 armylimit, kill the rebels, disband army, 0 manpower/money left, Japan is basically defeated but I just started sieging the second province with ~200 manpower reinforcement, when Ming+Allys (includes Portugal for some reason) declares war on me and 30k Stack with 10 higher techlevel of portuguese soldiers roll over my main land. Roundup: EU4 is slow paced, most of the time waiting for opportunity is ALOT better than straight up attacking when your equally strong and on that note, dont overextend (judging that comes with experience). | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
My second try went much better. I'll admit I had to reload once when I made a terrible decision to attack a small country in the HRE causing a massive unexpected alliance cascade, but I did lose a war to France when they took back their cores in east Normandy, and also had to release a couple vassals. After taking those back plus a few other provinces in east France, and consolidating most of the Netherlands and Rhineland, I'm now putting down massive Dutch revolts for Netherlands independence. I think it's pretty much over, but stacks of up to 25(generally 15-20) units spawning every few months kept my man power at ~50% for a good 10 years, and the constant reinforcement needs really puts a damper on your economy. | ||
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