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On August 15 2013 03:44 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:35 Talin wrote:
Cavalry units are straight up more powerful. They might not necessarily be more cost-efficient (not too sure about that), but they're much more "slot-efficient" in terms of power - force limit ratio.
Ideally, if not for the built-in ratio limits, you would want a 100% cavalry army. That's why some of the hordes that are allowed up to 60-70% cavalry (compared to the Western 50%) are so powerful early on until they start falling behind on tech. well, apparently it isnt as straight up, because stat wise the men at arms were better. And the manual didnt mention anything either.
The power of cav is in the multipliers, *though I'm mostly going from EU3 for this* Infantry almost always have had better base stats, but early game shock multiplers for cav means they reign supreme early, until the Infantry fire modifers start catching up as you tech up.
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On August 15 2013 03:44 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:35 Talin wrote:
Cavalry units are straight up more powerful. They might not necessarily be more cost-efficient (not too sure about that), but they're much more "slot-efficient" in terms of power - force limit ratio.
Ideally, if not for the built-in ratio limits, you would want a 100% cavalry army. That's why some of the hordes that are allowed up to 60-70% cavalry (compared to the Western 50%) are so powerful early on until they start falling behind on tech. well, apparently it isnt as straight up, because stat wise the men at arms were better. And the manual didnt mention anything either.
No, look at your tech slider and notice how cavalry has way higher shock than infantry. Fire is almost entirely useless until Maurician infantry. It might be different in EU4 though, I think they might have buffed early game Artillery fire values a lot so Artillery can be used to deal some serious fire stage damage pre-Maurician infantry. Infantry are just meatshields in until quite late into the game while cavalry deal the real damage
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On August 15 2013 04:18 rezoacken wrote:Show nested quote +Venice could be interesting start too although you've got Austria to your north and Ottomans to your east which would both most likely roll you over if they decided they wanted to attack you. So far my experience with Venice was alright. I suggest quickly expanding into serbia/bosnia with an alliance with hungary. It's too hard to expand west into the HRE while Austria is emperor. Right now I own most of Serbia and North Italy. My biggest problem is a France+Naples alliance in a coallition against me (accumulated a bit too much diplo hits through agressive expansion). Ottomans however haven't been an issue. They are for many years busy with other nations and if they ever go into a long enough war they get crippled by Orthodox revolts (especially if I help finance the revolt). They declared war on me once and it was pretty easy, blockated the sea with a strong navy and it just cut them in half.
Ottomans have always been weak in Paradox games unless you are like Byzantium or Trebizond. Without a specific event that gave them Egypt (I think II had that) I've never seen them conquer the Mamluks.
I guess its definitely one of the more jackyl and hyde countries because with a human in charge its super easy mode but without one its probably the least competent of the 'big powers' that you start the game with.
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On August 15 2013 07:13 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 04:18 rezoacken wrote:Venice could be interesting start too although you've got Austria to your north and Ottomans to your east which would both most likely roll you over if they decided they wanted to attack you. So far my experience with Venice was alright. I suggest quickly expanding into serbia/bosnia with an alliance with hungary. It's too hard to expand west into the HRE while Austria is emperor. Right now I own most of Serbia and North Italy. My biggest problem is a France+Naples alliance in a coallition against me (accumulated a bit too much diplo hits through agressive expansion). Ottomans however haven't been an issue. They are for many years busy with other nations and if they ever go into a long enough war they get crippled by Orthodox revolts (especially if I help finance the revolt). They declared war on me once and it was pretty easy, blockated the sea with a strong navy and it just cut them in half. Ottomans have always been weak in Paradox games unless you are like Byzantium or Trebizond. Without a specific event that gave them Egypt (I think II had that) I've never seen them conquer the Mamluks. I guess its definitely one of the more jackyl and hyde countries because with a human in charge its super easy mode but without one its probably the least competent of the 'big powers' that you start the game with.
I think since In Nomine they've been weak, but in EU3 vanilla and Napoleon's Ambition the Ottos were monsters that blobbed tremendously since there is no one east of them that can contest their power in 1453. The old 1399 start definitely made the Ottomans feel weak because Timurids would smack them up every game and then stuff like Castille and England just ganking them because of crusades would make them a non factor
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Poland8075 Posts
It doesn't matter how weak or strong the Ottomans are, for Serbia STRONG (so far)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2TI6sXm.jpg)
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Man. I was doing really great with Korea, then suddenly Ming, Manchu, and Japan all decide to declare against me. T.T
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I shall remember to never become a rival of France and to avoid being an ennemy of their ally... they jin every small wars against me and rape me -.-
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On August 15 2013 13:19 rezoacken wrote:
I shall remember to never become a rival of France and to avoid being an ennemy of their ally... they jin every small wars against me and rape me -.-
So far, in every of my EU (a lot of EU3, modded) games, France always seem to implode under the pressure because they get into too many wars and end up unable to go to war with anything without having all Europe siding together to break them. I've seen everything, including Alençon and Toulouse sharing France happily. I don't know if it's the case in EU4, haven't played enough to be sure though.
For me, the worst enemy you can have is Castille. Whatever you do, they will always be powerful, even without uniting Spain, and when they do, it's a pain.
Man. I was doing really great with Korea, then suddenly Ming, Manchu, and Japan all decide to declare against me. T.T
Korea is pretty unplayable in every version of EU where Ming is already formed. It was fun to play in EU3 mods like meiou, where China starts at war with Yuan with all the dynasties trying to grab some land. You could always work to lower the power of the bigger pretender and be safe for very long (and Korea is very well placed to colonize kamtchatka, then leapfrog to america, landing uncontested on the west coast).
The biggest pain is you're naturally navy-oriented, but navy can't protect you from either manchu or ming. And there is no way to compare to them in term of manpower.
Is it really a hard game to learn? Looks so interesting, is the tutorial decent for a new comer?
Try stuff, loose games, restart, that's the way to learn :D
There was pretty good EU3 content on the web, so it's likely you'll be able to find some more informations about EU4 lying around too.
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that plus france has all those minors you can break out of them, castille seems to do much better because it has only two neighbors and there are less things you can break it into.
Anyway, Burgundy is fun for the first 100-150 years but if you do it right youll have one of the richest countries and the only issue is 'only' having 100 regiment manpower limit.
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Teutonic Order is super weak in EUIV T_T
Poland is unbeatable, everybody in the HRE hates you from the beginning, your only ally the Livonian Order is also the only way for you to expand...
they seriously nerfed the teutonic order. I have no idea how you are supposed to survive with them.
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On August 15 2013 16:37 Sub40APM wrote:
that plus france has all those minors you can break out of them, castille seems to do much better because it has only two neighbors and there are less things you can break it into.
Anyway, Burgundy is fun for the first 100-150 years but if you do it right youll have one of the richest countries and the only issue is 'only' having 100 regiment manpower limit.
Yes, it's retarded, you should be able to have castille release at least Leon. :<
France can spit out new nations until it's left with only Paris if you want, I've seen it happen a lot.
I've seen my share of catholic granada being released from castille though. :D
Burgundy is awesome if you manage to navigate around France and avoid being at war with them alone early on.
It's more interesting and challenging with a 1357 start (EU3 mods), where flanders is independent. And Burgundy part of the empire. I hope we get that kind of mods soon (meiou let you form lotharingia with burgundy, too, pretty funny).
Teutonic Order is super weak in EUIV T_T
Poland is unbeatable, everybody in the HRE hates you from the beginning, your only ally the Livonian Order is also the only way for you to expand...
they seriously nerfed the teutonic order. I have no idea how you are supposed to survive with them.
At least if you were in the empire :D
And no, the Hansa is friendly with you. And for a 3 provinces nation, they're a superpower.
You can't start a war on the HRE minors because the emperor will destroy you, but you can wait for brandenburg to declare war to reclaim neumark, if they're the ones starting it, you can get in without the emperor following. Or you could try attacking into the russian states. But yeah, poland an lithuania are pretty huge.
You starting split between teutonic order and livonian order is a pain yeah.
The best thing to do is probably to wait for the superpowers to be at war to grab pommerania or brandenburg.
No idea if you can join the empire if you have provinces in it. And I don't know if there is a prussia formation event for you.
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That feeling when you join France in a war against Ottomans thinking it's going to be just a formality, and then a 30-something large fleet carrying a 12 stack goes around France only to invade me in Ireland. 
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On August 15 2013 16:52 Nyvis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 16:37 Sub40APM wrote:
that plus france has all those minors you can break out of them, castille seems to do much better because it has only two neighbors and there are less things you can break it into.
Anyway, Burgundy is fun for the first 100-150 years but if you do it right youll have one of the richest countries and the only issue is 'only' having 100 regiment manpower limit. Yes, it's retarded, you should be able to have castille release at least Leon. :< France can spit out new nations until it's left with only Paris if you want, I've seen it happen a lot. I've seen my share of catholic granada being released from castille though. :D Burgundy is awesome if you manage to navigate around France and avoid being at war with them alone early on. It's more interesting and challenging with a 1357 start (EU3 mods), where flanders is independent. And Burgundy part of the empire. I hope we get that kind of mods soon (meiou let you form lotharingia with burgundy, too, pretty funny). Show nested quote +Teutonic Order is super weak in EUIV T_T
Poland is unbeatable, everybody in the HRE hates you from the beginning, your only ally the Livonian Order is also the only way for you to expand...
they seriously nerfed the teutonic order. I have no idea how you are supposed to survive with them. At least if you were in the empire :D And no, the Hansa is friendly with you. And for a 3 provinces nation, they're a superpower. You can't start a war on the HRE minors because the emperor will destroy you, but you can wait for brandenburg to declare war to reclaim neumark, if they're the ones starting it, you can get in without the emperor following. Or you could try attacking into the russian states. But yeah, poland an lithuania are pretty huge. You starting split between teutonic order and livonian order is a pain yeah. The best thing to do is probably to wait for the superpowers to be at war to grab pommerania or brandenburg. No idea if you can join the empire if you have provinces in it. And I don't know if there is a prussia formation event for you.
in my new attempt i managed to get an alliance with hungary and we managed to beat back the first polish assault. at least now I got a truce with them and I can boost my tech levels. Brandenburg suprisingly did not bother me yet and neither did Bohemia. Managed to bring Austria into my alliance too. So next time poland messes with me they get killed!
Also I got lucky with a offensive land force event that gave me +25% force limit cap.
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On August 15 2013 15:07 Nyvis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 13:19 rezoacken wrote:
I shall remember to never become a rival of France and to avoid being an ennemy of their ally... they jin every small wars against me and rape me -.- So far, in every of my EU (a lot of EU3, modded) games, France always seem to implode under the pressure because they get into too many wars and end up unable to go to war with anything without having all Europe siding together to break them. I've seen everything, including Alençon and Toulouse sharing France happily. I don't know if it's the case in EU4, haven't played enough to be sure though. For me, the worst enemy you can have is Castille. Whatever you do, they will always be powerful, even without uniting Spain, and when they do, it's a pain. Show nested quote +Man. I was doing really great with Korea, then suddenly Ming, Manchu, and Japan all decide to declare against me. T.T Korea is pretty unplayable in every version of EU where Ming is already formed. It was fun to play in EU3 mods like meiou, where China starts at war with Yuan with all the dynasties trying to grab some land. You could always work to lower the power of the bigger pretender and be safe for very long (and Korea is very well placed to colonize kamtchatka, then leapfrog to america, landing uncontested on the west coast).
Korea is a good example for different possible approches, so played them 4 times so far. In demo they seemed pretty doomed, you start with 1/1/2 leader and -1 everything malus for chinese techgroup. In maingame on the other hand you start with very god ruler and that made me replay them again.
Ming is very crippled statswise, they have heavy malus on everything (f.e. -25% discipline) and Korea starts with decent income.
Demo not much could have been done with 1/1/2 into 0/0/0 ruler for 75 years straight.
First real game going naval first, overextending vs Japan while mainland gets rebels+war from ming+portugal.
Second game naval again, not overextending but religious unity like 20%, but +1 tolerance so no rebels, just +100% stabcost, eating all of japan going diplo idea pumping out CBs and ready to overtake Ming, when again western power france comes with 10 higher naval tech (early carrack vs warship anyone? ) and takes provinces around me making progress hard.
Lessons learned: Overextension close to 100% is no problem as long as you are prepared with enough Adminpoints to core everything and sit back for a few years.Rivals is very good, can grab extra gold and prestige. Religion is extremely important, maybe the best idea for conquest, prevents rebels big time, prevents +100(+)% (with other small +5/+10% influences) stabcost, which eats most of your adminpoints which you need for coring.
Coalitions are serious stuff to gang big nations. Dont wait for anyone else to start the war, just get a CB and go for it when numbers work out. Checking Ledger 24/7 to see Forcelimit and Manpower and ovbiously diploscreen when big wars start. Embargos are also pretty good, depending on your position.
So third game as Korea, grabbing Manchu as always and here comes the trick imo. Making the very good ruler into Leader gave me 4/4/2 Leader and with ~15 Forcelimit after 5 Manchu provinces and then waiting for Ming to make a move. They attacked Tibet, I went for expensive 8inf/7cav with very good leader and was able to defeat 20k soldiers 2 times with first military tech (+morale and +0.3 from advisor for few month) and grabbed another close to 100 Overextension from Ming and pretty much straight forward from there on. But as experience told me, naval vs Japan is very draining so I just embargo'd them (they cant do anything vs your mainland) and went for exploration as said above and started colonising while going west.
Got 3 times gold in like 50 colonised provinces so not sure whether thats heavy RNG luck, but now I've got an 1 admin ruler into 1 admin heir and expansion slowed down alot, but zero rebels and no western invasion so far. Just connected to Russia and they have 131 Forcelimit vs my 65 and they are like 20 techs in naval+admin ahead so its probably not possible to take the world as eastern minor, but we'll see.
![[image loading]](http://sc2pro.de/KOREA.jpg)
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How did they implement westernization? Could be an option for you.
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You still need a western nation as a neighbor +8 techs ahead of you to westernize.
I have been playing as the Papal State trying to unite Italy and form the Kingdom of God. Been fun, but taking HRE provinces can be a pain in the ass....
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Do you guys have any tips on how to manage war ?
It's really one area where appart from avoiding mountains and stacking a bigger army I'm not sure of what I'm doing.
Mainly:
-How does unit stats work ? How important are they to change a battle ? It seems at times I end up losing a lot of men even though I have twice the ennemy number. This then drain my man power really quickly.
-How good are mercenaries ?
-Why do I seem to always be like 1 point of morale behind my ennemy ? How strong does it impact battle losses ?
-How are buildings increasing manpower exactly... I can do little +50 manpower that seems crap but I feel I just dont know how its calculated.
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Manpower buildings increase monthly manpower, not max manpower, I believe, at least the amount they show isn't maximum manpower (thus being very good if you are a small nation, and completely useless if you are bigger).
Mercenaries cost twice as much, building and maintenance wise, but cost no manpower to recruit. Near mandatory if you are a small nation, completely useless otherwise.
Stats are important, but "hidden" bonuses due to unit types are also important (flanking for cavalry, for example, and higher shock from them, or higher fire from infantry). Early on, you want a lot of cavalry because of flanking and their higher shock (fire is pretty bad early on). Later, you'll want cannons because they can fire from the second row, allowing you to make use of more troops at a time, with more effective larger armies.
Being one or two military tech ahead of your opponents can mean easy victory if you jump an unit type or military tactics level. Military tradition is also important for your discipline.
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-How does unit stats work ? How important are they to change a battle ? It seems at times I end up losing a lot of men even though I have twice the ennemy number. This then drain my man power really quickly.
Unit stats are very important, a difference of two tech levels up or down is going to be seen in the battle. I noticed that I tend to take quite large casualties as well, even though I'm fighting an inferior opponent. This has most likely been added to be more realistic than in EU3 where you could stomp around.
-How good are mercenaries ?
As good as the normal troops me thinks, but they cost a bitch and a half.
Why do I seem to always be like 1 point of morale behind my ennemy ? How strong does it impact battle losses ?
Morale is increased through technology, maintenance level, army tradition and prestige. Think there are some nations with their own modifiers as well. Most likely you have either bad army tradition or low prestige and this is why you are suffering (or you just have to low tech). If you go into the military tab there is a "Land Morale" number, hover your mouse over that and you can see which modifiers are active
-How are buildings increasing manpower exactly... I can do little +50 manpower that seems crap but I feel I just dont know how its calculated.
Manpower is quite hard to increase, either you have it (through a large territory) or you don't. There are a bunch of multipliers for your manpower though, such as the +25% you get from the offensive tech tree. Barracks and such are quite bad until you get up to the later levels of buildings since they give you +25% manpower as well, but these are expensive and you won't have them until late in the game.
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On August 15 2013 23:39 rezoacken wrote:
Do you guys have any tips on how to manage war ?
It's really one area where appart from avoiding mountains and stacking a bigger army I'm not sure of what I'm doing.
Mainly:
-How does unit stats work ? How important are they to change a battle ? It seems at times I end up losing a lot of men even though I have twice the ennemy number. This then drain my man power really quickly.
-How good are mercenaries ?
-Why do I seem to always be like 1 point of morale behind my ennemy ? How strong does it impact battle losses ?
-How are buildings increasing manpower exactly... I can do little +50 manpower that seems crap but I feel I just dont know how its calculated.
Make sure you have a military leader leading your army. (It's a big flashng No leader on your troops if you have none assigned, click it and assign one).
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EPT
