EPTTotal War: Rome II - Page 75
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cLAN.Anax
United States2847 Posts
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qotsager
Germany585 Posts
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3Form
United Kingdom389 Posts
Meh. This is why Paradox games grabbed me like they did. Sure, you can blob in EU but there are incentives NOT to do so. At the end of the day the battle AI in Total War is shite too, and once you are left with just the campaign map then TW doesn't have much going for it when compared to EU - except cute graphics I suppose? | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On September 18 2013 02:25 3Form wrote: AI is always bad in Total War. The biggest problem with this series imo is it's just too easy to expand. I thought they were going the right way with culture penalties but it's not enough. Sparta should not be able to send ships to Carthage, sieze it and hold it without a ridiculously large force to garrison it. Meh. This is why Paradox games grabbed me like they did. Sure, you can blob in EU but there are incentives NOT to do so. At the end of the day the battle AI in Total War is shite too, and once you are left with just the campaign map then TW doesn't have much going for it when compared to EU - except cute graphics I suppose? lol the whole point of Total War is the epic battles. That's what makes the experience 10x more enjoyable than EU or civ. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11857 Posts
On September 18 2013 09:13 sc4k wrote: lol the whole point of Total War is the epic battles. That's what makes the experience 10x more enjoyable than EU or civ. At least the first half of this is true. TW is about the battles. The campaign map is absurdly simplistic when compared to something like EU. It is only really there to provide some meaning to the realtime battles. If you play TW for the campaign map and autoresolve the combat you are doing something wrong and should just play EU or Civ instead, which are both incredibly much better at that when compared to TW. Which leads back to the original point, the realtime battles are the core of TW. So if the realtime battle AI is so bad that they are no longer fun, TW just becomes a really bad Civ clone. Especially considering that in the same way that the campaign map gives meaning to the battles, the battles need to work to give meaning to the campaign map. If you win every combat because the AI is so bad, the whole game just becomes Whack-A-Mole where you maneuver your limited armies to kill all the AI armies which you might as well just kill touching them, making it even less interesting than it would be if it was just the campaign map with autoresolve. | ||
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cLAN.Anax
United States2847 Posts
That said, my love will always be with Total War.  But at least there's something to fall back upon (and aspire towards) in the meantime.  Seriously, CA should have made co-op and campaign as smooth as Civ's. | ||
Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
Did something...go wrong? | ||
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cLAN.Anax
United States2847 Posts
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Arunu
Netherlands111 Posts
in short, yes the battle map AI seems more aggressive and the turn times seemed better. After you get a few provinces up and running the AI still seems to go back to passiveness against me though. In fairness, the rest of the world seems to be in constant war with Rome being wiped out by barbarians, Carthage and Sparta (!). Asia minor the same, everyone is at war with each other so I suppose they did improve that. Still enjoying it even with its flaws. Rome is next on the list to be Hellenised .. | ||
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TSORG
293 Posts
On September 18 2013 09:13 sc4k wrote: lol the whole point of Total War is the epic battles. That's what makes the experience 10x more enjoyable than EU or civ. yes only now i cant enjoy the battles cuz the speed is so fast that they are over in minutes with thousands massacred. i hardly know what the hell is going on. im aware that radious mod slows down the speed a bit but its not enough. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On September 18 2013 12:51 Simberto wrote: At least the first half of this is true. TW is about the battles. The campaign map is absurdly simplistic when compared to something like EU. It is only really there to provide some meaning to the realtime battles. If you play TW for the campaign map and autoresolve the combat you are doing something wrong and should just play EU or Civ instead, which are both incredibly much better at that when compared to TW. Which leads back to the original point, the realtime battles are the core of TW. So if the realtime battle AI is so bad that they are no longer fun, TW just becomes a really bad Civ clone. Especially considering that in the same way that the campaign map gives meaning to the battles, the battles need to work to give meaning to the campaign map. If you win every combat because the AI is so bad, the whole game just becomes Whack-A-Mole where you maneuver your limited armies to kill all the AI armies which you might as well just kill touching them, making it even less interesting than it would be if it was just the campaign map with autoresolve. Meh, you may be a virtual savant at the game but if you play most of the games on the max difficulty (esp legendary on Shogun) the battles are not easy, and require a lot of attention and hard work. If you play Rome, M2, Empire on vh and don't save/load, it's a considerable challenge, especially for some of the more precarious factions. And you should indeed only be playing total war if you enjoy the battles. If you enjoy EU that's good for you but I find it to be half a game when compared to TW. On September 18 2013 22:26 TSORG wrote: yes only now i cant enjoy the battles cuz the speed is so fast that they are over in minutes with thousands massacred. i hardly know what the hell is going on. im aware that radious mod slows down the speed a bit but its not enough. I agree, when compared to Empire especially it's absurdly fast. They need to have battles about 25% the speed they are now. But it will get there... | ||
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RolleMcKnolle
Germany1054 Posts
also this: http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/94255-Battle-and-Unit-teams-What-we-are-working-on?s=7443ce759073a1e0d52c2ba028ff8c22 despite Guard mode still missing, they are acknowledging many flaws in the gameplay and promising to fix it. well all this should have happened pre-release, but better late than never. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9852 Posts
On September 18 2013 23:56 RolleMcKnolle wrote: Patch 2 is now officially released. Anyone wanna read the patchnotes and tell me whether there are differences between beta and live? also this: http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/94255-Battle-and-Unit-teams-What-we-are-working-on?s=7443ce759073a1e0d52c2ba028ff8c22 despite Guard mode still missing, they are acknowledging many flaws in the gameplay and promising to fix it. well all this should have happened pre-release, but better late than never. This list is pretty much exactly what most people want to hear (except for the special abilities bit). Lets hope they deliver. There is still hope that this could be the best TW yet. | ||
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FromShouri
United States862 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
The AI has always been broken. It literally cannot form a workable battle plan. If you aren't winning every battle with contemptuous ease on VH, you are just playing the game wrong. Of course, with battles being the main focus of TW games, it's kind of shocking that Creative Assembly never bothered to improve the battle AI, but then again, they would require a programmer with a semblance of understanding of human multiplayer tactics. | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On September 19 2013 00:22 Dangermousecatdog wrote: "If you play most of the games on the max difficulty (esp legendary on Shogun) the battles are not easy, and require a lot of attention and hard work. If you play Rome, M2, Empire on vh and don't save/load, it's a considerable challenge, especially for some of the more precarious factions".....WHAT? The AI has always been broken. It literally cannot form a workable battle plan. If you aren't winning every battle with contemptuous ease on VH, you are just playing the game wrong. Of course, with battles being the main focus of TW games, it's kind of shocking that Creative Assembly never bothered to improve the battle AI, but then again, they would require a programmer with a semblance of understanding of human multiplayer tactics. If you are playing without pause it's a challenge. Okay it's not NEARLY as hard as human opponents but on vh the odds are stacked ridiculously against your favour. Are you telling me that you found it easy to beat the legendary campaign on Shogun 2 with the difficult factions like oda and takeda? If you did, perhaps you should quit total war and go back to your day job as superman. On September 19 2013 00:16 FromShouri wrote: @sc4k, yes its "harder" but there are still a lot of holes you can abuse that makes it less enjoyable. Rlthat said i usually go the Germany route and secure loads/peace treaty in my back and full frontal blitzkrieg on the front. For me the fact that there are holes makes the game enjoyable in a different way. If you avoid using forums and other outside information and instead try to work out how to counteract the game's superior *everything* including numbers, income and unit variety/exp, using only your own ingenuity and wiliness, it is ludicrously rewarding and enjoyable. Granted if you just look for the gimpiest strategy online you might lose all semblance of challenge but imo that's only a step away from just hacking the game for infinite money. There are times I had to get out of tight situations and had to very carefully work out of ways around the pickle I was in and doing that was extremely fun. | ||
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3Form
United Kingdom389 Posts
Like you said, TW is all about the huge battles, and like Simberto pointed out, I said that the battles pose no challenge, but if you autoresolve to make the campaign more challenging then you miss the main point of the game. I know it'll be difficult to get a really capable AI, but after how many iterations of Total War and the AI still can't manage to pin your units with infantry before hitting them in the side or rear with cavalry? The most basic trick in the book. Yet the AI still plays Rock, Paper, Scissors and locks it's spearmen onto your cavalry and doesn't let go. Resulting in him trying to run half his army round each of your flanks which never ends well. Defensive AI is hardly even active, he'll just sit in the same spot, rotate towards you and wait until you are close enough to charge. This hasn't changed since the first total war. | ||
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Vaporeon
Canada68 Posts
Battle's are longer too I think. Most battles finished in Shogun under 15 maybe 20 minutes. 20 minutes is pretty routine now for my battles. Some of it is walking, but sometimes i'm sitting there just watching units kill each other because everything is set and fighting, then you just micro around your cav/skirmishers and flanking units. As far the bad AI. I've found it in general better than Shogun, but there are major bugs that dampen the mood. Walking through your army, aiming for flags instead of your army. Or the latest one I saw last night, where the enemy army just sits outside your city with his siege equipment (scorpions) and his army, and just sits there for 40 minutes. Yay for 25 minutes of fast forward. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9852 Posts
On September 19 2013 04:08 Vaporeon wrote: I had no problem beating shogun 2 on legendary as Oda, my first time playing legendary. That said, i've lost 2 Iceni legendary campaigns in the first 20 turns. I have a Rome legendary save that is basically me and Liguria trading settlements, and now my second Macedon Campaign which is the only one that is going well. Battle's are longer too I think. Most battles finished in Shogun under 15 maybe 20 minutes. 20 minutes is pretty routine now for my battles. Some of it is walking, but sometimes i'm sitting there just watching units kill each other because everything is set and fighting, then you just micro around your cav/skirmishers and flanking units. As far the bad AI. I've found it in general better than Shogun, but there are major bugs that dampen the mood. Walking through your army, aiming for flags instead of your army. Or the latest one I saw last night, where the enemy army just sits outside your city with his siege equipment (scorpions) and his army, and just sits there for 40 minutes. Yay for 25 minutes of fast forward. the most frustrating ai glitch i have encountered has happened twice. Once i was playing as athens, i was sat outside Appolonia at the beginning of my campaign, waiting for my backup army. Sparta attacks the city, and it gives me the option to join. I was fostering a relationship with sparta at the time ('grooming' them, if you will), so even thought we were heavily outnumbered, i thought what the hell we can use tactics to win. The Spartan AI obviously tried to order its entire army into the sea, because they just spent the entire battle trying to run into the sea and failing while my army got slaughtered. About 15 turns later, Sparta were joining me for a massive attack on Macedonia, i pinpointed the city i wanted to take, 3 Spartan armies turned up, and then the ai proceeded to literally do nothing. They just sat there until my army was dead, and then made a charge for the capture point, dying in the process.  Good game though, innit? | ||
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