On April 17 2012 10:04 Xpace wrote: Did I really devote 480 hours on my main, 200 on a single alt, and who knows how many more on the other 8, just to see it end like this?
It's sad. Real sad.
Age : 1791 days 10 hours 56 minutes 18 seconds. Let's talk dedication (not WoW though) And that's just time actively logged in.
On April 17 2012 19:33 Velr wrote:
On April 17 2012 19:21 Newbistic wrote: Blizzard is still full of innovation in design. You just 1) need to know where to look and 2) take into account that the further you push the envelope the harder it is to innovate further.
What's really happening is the increase in whiny little entitled kids who sweep their eyes around and quickly declare something sucks because it doesn't immediately blow their mind.
Please show me the positive innovation with Bnet2.0 compared to... WC3 Bnet or Dota2 online client. It's not innovative, it's plain worse than its predecessors AND its concurrence.
And please, at least give me an example of something truely innovative.. .. Where is this "good" innovation you speak off?
Well, innovation is everywhere! Queens, colossuses, void rays, vikings! All new and never before seen. /sarcasm
And yeah, Bnet2.0 is one of the worst things to ever happen. WC3-era Bnet was very, very good. Stuff that HoN and DotA2 have currently is way beyond even that.
I feel that HoN and DotA (as well as LoL) all have very good out of game interfaces precisely because they modeled themselves off of WC3. You don't need to be terribly innovative with that stuff, but it just has to do its job, which unfortunately bnet 2.0 does not do.
While bnet 2.0 really does suck the wc3 one had its poblems too. You couldn't copy paste from the chat to somewhere else for example and the whole hosting custom games by opening your ports was actually a pretty big problem because most people had no idea how to do it.
On April 13 2012 01:27 lunar3force wrote: Well how many people that worked on Diablo 1 +2, Warcraft 2 +3 and Starcraft BW are still working and making games at Blizzard? Hell how many of original vanilla WoW team members are still working on WoW or better how many are there left to makeTitan as awersome as WoW once was? Who the hell are these guys that are making Diablo 3? No wonder quality went downhill bad when some talented but still random dudes from gaming industry are running the show now.
so true, the guys who made the great games arent in blizzard anymore
On April 13 2012 01:27 lunar3force wrote: Well how many people that worked on Diablo 1 +2, Warcraft 2 +3 and Starcraft BW are still working and making games at Blizzard? Hell how many of original vanilla WoW team members are still working on WoW or better how many are there left to makeTitan as awersome as WoW once was? Who the hell are these guys that are making Diablo 3? No wonder quality went downhill bad when some talented but still random dudes from gaming industry are running the show now.
so true, the guys who made the great games arent in blizzard anymore
Well, I can see your points, OP. But at the end of the day, they are providing what they consumers want. And people will be flocking to those games that will be released.
The problem as I see it is not really Blizzard, but the whole industry/consumers. Since I started gaming in 1983, game genres have disappeared - good genres, those that remained have grown to epic scale games costing millions to produce(and market), years to develope, simply because there is where the money is at. Game genres disappeared because people did not buy games of original design, and consumers themselves are going on "safe bets". Some have arisen due to internet, like MMORPGs, which in themselves comes by the dozens and offer nothing new at all.
What separates Blizzard from many other developers is the polish of their games.
In short gamers go by what they know works, and so does developers.
I still feel consumers are letting themselves get ripped off with Starcraft 2 being separated into 3 games, which is the same platform, much like the expansions of WoW adding very little new. You can always be damned by the fact that developers don't go into a new thinking box to set new standards take gaming to new places taking more risks, and are more guided by money than passion, but the "problem" is gamers being relative conservative despite the whines, and the companies are just making business sense.
Consumers are likewise conservative when it comes to sports(not eSports(yet)). Football(soccer) has become a money game, and is more popular than ever - despite everything. Same with movies vs film(where people are flocking to see movies that have been done 100s of times with different actors, while leaving empty seats with something new).
Good - bad? Seemingly/apparently not bad going by the consumer wishes at the end of the day.
On April 13 2012 01:27 lunar3force wrote: Well how many people that worked on Diablo 1 +2, Warcraft 2 +3 and Starcraft BW are still working and making games at Blizzard? Hell how many of original vanilla WoW team members are still working on WoW or better how many are there left to makeTitan as awersome as WoW once was? Who the hell are these guys that are making Diablo 3? No wonder quality went downhill bad when some talented but still random dudes from gaming industry are running the show now.
so true, the guys who made the great games arent in blizzard anymore
Really? Who's left? Bill Roper and.....
Some of my fondest memories of Blizzard games was Chris Metzens artwork in the manuals. His stories may not be as good as they used to be, but so long as he's still there, it's still the same Blizzard to me.
On April 16 2012 21:01 seodoth wrote: Please go back to wow, or try any other mmo and go back to wow Please replay the sc2 campaign or try any other rts and go back to starcraft 2 Please get a hold on diablo 3 beta, or get the game when its out, and compare it to any other rpg of the same nature. Maybe then you can develop some appreciation to the quality of blizzards games. Don't be so spoiled. Open your eyes for once and take a good look around you. Im getting sick of people thinking people working at blizzard think they just sit in offices on piles of wow subscriber money throwing darts at game design ideas on a huge chalkboard. Its so naive I have to puke. They are talented, VERY hard working people, and the great games we enjoy are a result of that.
Edit:
Then finally the game that really made all this come to mind. Diablo 3. To be honest I don’t even get the story in D3 yet. I tried to read about it but no. How do you continue the story from D2: LoD? There is no reasonable line of story progress. The 3 brothers of hatred where killed. Their souls where literally smashed. The original hero from Diablo is dead. The world stone was destroyed = the world as we knew it had come to an end, a new era starts, the last elfes have sailed to Valinor.
And OP, please do some goddamn effort. The worldstone is destroyed so the boundaries are gone and heavens and hell can freely invade sanctuary. There are 2 other lords of hell left. Go watch the lore panel of blizzcon 2011, go watch the gameplay and AH panel. My god I was almost crying cause the development team was so good and had such good gamedesign philosophy. And people like you are fucking whining about blizzard turning soft and losing their creativity?
Also you give two high quality cgi clips and only give a ingame cgi in return. Why dont you take these recent master pieces??
Well yes there is a follow up story in D3 and yes Blizzard is famous for making epic CGI:s, no one is denying that. Blizzard can always scrap up some story though, I mean they have a least a couple writers working with them. The question is rather if there was meant to be one in the first place. I do not think the ending in D2 LoD is suitable for any kind of sequel and I dont think that person who made the story of D2 had the intention of making a follow up story. It certainly does not appear that way.
Look at the original Diablo, obviously supposed to have an sequel with a brilliant ending of letting the hero transform slowly into the evil he destroyed. Same with D2 end with the cliffhanger of Bhaal escaping his destruction. D3 has nothing in comparison; all the major connections to previous games have been cut.
If we go back Lord of the Rings for a moment it is a good example of this. The underlying message in ending of LoR is that the ages of other races has come to and end, the ancient evil has been vanquished (Morgoth/Sauron) and the age of men is dawning. That is our time and age starts, it symbolize that magic and the folklore once was true but now is gone from our world.
Notice that there are some similarities between D2LoD and LoR? The ancient evils was defeated, the old world stone was destroyed, the heavenly protectors are no longer needed as the prime evils are no more. Similiar to the ending of LoR and a very good ending of an epic story I think. <-- You are not supposed to make a sequel from this kind of story! It is like taking the Mona Lisa and use it as toilet paper.
But no of course you can always make a sequel if you want to. "Sauron did make an extra emergency ring in the Mount Doom, why would he not? Who wants to bet everything one card? So he just pretended to be dead for a couple of centuries, hiding in his "The One Ring 2.0". You know to lighten up the competition a bit. No more pointy ears to mess everything up this time!"
I give you Lord of the Rings 2! Arwen can even be in it, she should still be around! Cain anyone?
This is very much the same as Blizzard have done in D3. Or well I guess they put down a little bit more time then I did but otherwise it is the same. They want to use the brand Diablo cause it sells a lot of copies, even if it dont make any sense story wise. Okay no one can actually prove this and Blizzard would never ever in hell confirm this so if you want to believe that they made D3 cause the there was such a great story to be told there you go ahead.
Beause it would of course be completely unthinkable to make a new story in a new RPG, what a gamble, I am sure no one would give it any attention.
I'm sorry dude but you really didn't understand the plot in D2:LoD.
The worldstone was a piece of original god, an artifact capable of creating worlds and realms. And it was this the hell and heavens were fighting for. An angel and demon (i don't remeber the angel's name but the demon's was lilith) stole the worldstone created sanctuary and hid the sanctuary with worldstone's power. They reproduced and that's what created Nephalem(the humans). The prime evils do not represent all of the hells but they actually were overthrown and cast to sanctuary (as exiles).
So when the Baal corrupted the worldstone the worldstone had potential to corrupt all humans into joining the war in the side of Hell. That's why Tyrael destroyed the worldstone. By doing this he also distrupted worldstone's barrier and made it another battlefield for heaven and hell. (end of the days etc.)
You can know more by watching the lore discussions in the last Blizzcon. But there is a good progression and this is quite good in 'need to continue' point of view.
SC2 were the first RTS campaign where I felt that most of the actual gameplay in the missions fitted in with the story. In sc1 you attack whole planets by landing a CC there, the enemy doesn't react until roughly 5 minutes have gone by and then they send like 10 units. In wc2 you attack the dark portal which should be the most dangerous place on the planet by sending a really small army that builds a base next to it while the orcs just stands idly by doing their thing.
Therefore I think that SC2 had the best campaign. The earlier campaigns didn't make much sense from a gaming point of view. Sure the stories said that the battles where fierce and epic but there were no such things in the actual games.
On April 16 2012 21:01 seodoth wrote: Please go back to wow, or try any other mmo and go back to wow Please replay the sc2 campaign or try any other rts and go back to starcraft 2 Please get a hold on diablo 3 beta, or get the game when its out, and compare it to any other rpg of the same nature. Maybe then you can develop some appreciation to the quality of blizzards games. Don't be so spoiled. Open your eyes for once and take a good look around you. Im getting sick of people thinking people working at blizzard think they just sit in offices on piles of wow subscriber money throwing darts at game design ideas on a huge chalkboard. Its so naive I have to puke. They are talented, VERY hard working people, and the great games we enjoy are a result of that.
Edit:
Then finally the game that really made all this come to mind. Diablo 3. To be honest I don’t even get the story in D3 yet. I tried to read about it but no. How do you continue the story from D2: LoD? There is no reasonable line of story progress. The 3 brothers of hatred where killed. Their souls where literally smashed. The original hero from Diablo is dead. The world stone was destroyed = the world as we knew it had come to an end, a new era starts, the last elfes have sailed to Valinor.
And OP, please do some goddamn effort. The worldstone is destroyed so the boundaries are gone and heavens and hell can freely invade sanctuary. There are 2 other lords of hell left. Go watch the lore panel of blizzcon 2011, go watch the gameplay and AH panel. My god I was almost crying cause the development team was so good and had such good gamedesign philosophy. And people like you are fucking whining about blizzard turning soft and losing their creativity?
Well yes there is a follow up story in D3 and yes Blizzard is famous for making epic CGI:s, no one is denying that. Blizzard can always scrap up some story though, I mean they have a least a couple writers working with them. The question is rather if there was meant to be one in the first place. I do not think the ending in D2 LoD is suitable for any kind of sequel and I dont think that person who made the story of D2 had the intention of making a follow up story. It certainly does not appear that way.
Look at the original Diablo, obviously supposed to have an sequel with a brilliant ending of letting the hero transform slowly into the evil he destroyed. Same with D2 end with the cliffhanger of Bhaal escaping his destruction. D3 has nothing in comparison; all the major connections to previous games have been cut.
If we go back Lord of the Rings for a moment it is a good example of this. The underlying message in ending of LoR is that the ages of other races has come to and end, the ancient evil has been vanquished (Morgoth/Sauron) and the age of men is dawning. That is our time and age starts, it symbolize that magic and the folklore once was true but now is gone from our world.
Notice that there are some similarities between D2LoD and LoR? The ancient evils was defeated, the old world stone was destroyed, the heavenly protectors are no longer needed as the prime evils are no more. Similiar to the ending of LoR and a very good ending of an epic story I think. <-- You are not supposed to make a sequel from this kind of story! It is like taking the Mona Lisa and use it as toilet paper.
But no of course you can always make a sequel if you want to. "Sauron did make an extra emergency ring in the Mount Doom, why would he not? Who wants to bet everything one card? So he just pretended to be dead for a couple of centuries, hiding in his "The One Ring 2.0". You know to lighten up the competition a bit. No more pointy ears to mess everything up this time!"
I give you Lord of the Rings 2! Arwen can even be in it, she should still be around! Cain anyone?
This is very much the same as Blizzard have done in D3. Or well I guess they put down a little bit more time then I did but otherwise it is the same. They want to use the brand Diablo cause it sells a lot of copies, even if it dont make any sense story wise. Okay no one can actually prove this and Blizzard would never ever in hell confirm this so if you want to believe that they made D3 cause the there was such a great story to be told there you go ahead.
Beause it would of course be completely unthinkable to make a new story in a new RPG, what a gamble, I am sure no one would give it any attention.
I'm sorry dude but you really didn't understand the plot in D2:LoD.
The worldstone was a piece of original god, an artifact capable of creating worlds and realms. And it was this the hell and heavens were fighting for. An angel and demon (i don't remeber the angel's name but the demon's was lilith) stole the worldstone created sanctuary and hid the sanctuary with worldstone's power. They reproduced and that's what created Nephalem(the humans). The prime evils do not represent all of the hells but they actually were overthrown and cast to sanctuary (as exiles).
So when the Baal corrupted the worldstone the worldstone had potential to corrupt all humans into joining the war in the side of Hell. That's why Tyrael destroyed the worldstone. By doing this he also distrupted worldstone's barrier and made it another battlefield for heaven and hell. (end of the days etc.)
You can know more by watching the lore discussions in the last Blizzcon. But there is a good progression and this is quite good in 'need to continue' point of view.
I'm sorry but you're wrong.
Well this is really weird.
Like this. Blizzard makes the story. As a result they can per se never be wrong. What they say happen, does happen. Of course Blizzard cannot say that the story was the way I interpreted the story. Cause then there would be no sequel.
As there is not actual description of what happens in the end of D2 LoD, the consequences of the end can be what ever blizzards wants to now. And since they make a sequel obviously they are going to make an ending that fits their purpose for D3. If Blizzard wanted to make D3 were you flied dragons they would have said that the world stone contained dragon eggs that hatched all over the world and therefor you can fly you own dragon in D3. That would have been equally "true" if Blizzard has said so.
Well I guess this is a way out to continue the story of the "world" of Diablo, although to me the story is actually about 3 Prime evils and surrounding lore rather then the world they happen to be in.
On April 16 2012 21:01 seodoth wrote: Please go back to wow, or try any other mmo and go back to wow Please replay the sc2 campaign or try any other rts and go back to starcraft 2 Please get a hold on diablo 3 beta, or get the game when its out, and compare it to any other rpg of the same nature. Maybe then you can develop some appreciation to the quality of blizzards games. Don't be so spoiled. Open your eyes for once and take a good look around you. Im getting sick of people thinking people working at blizzard think they just sit in offices on piles of wow subscriber money throwing darts at game design ideas on a huge chalkboard. Its so naive I have to puke. They are talented, VERY hard working people, and the great games we enjoy are a result of that.
Edit:
Then finally the game that really made all this come to mind. Diablo 3. To be honest I don’t even get the story in D3 yet. I tried to read about it but no. How do you continue the story from D2: LoD? There is no reasonable line of story progress. The 3 brothers of hatred where killed. Their souls where literally smashed. The original hero from Diablo is dead. The world stone was destroyed = the world as we knew it had come to an end, a new era starts, the last elfes have sailed to Valinor.
And OP, please do some goddamn effort. The worldstone is destroyed so the boundaries are gone and heavens and hell can freely invade sanctuary. There are 2 other lords of hell left. Go watch the lore panel of blizzcon 2011, go watch the gameplay and AH panel. My god I was almost crying cause the development team was so good and had such good gamedesign philosophy. And people like you are fucking whining about blizzard turning soft and losing their creativity?
Well yes there is a follow up story in D3 and yes Blizzard is famous for making epic CGI:s, no one is denying that. Blizzard can always scrap up some story though, I mean they have a least a couple writers working with them. The question is rather if there was meant to be one in the first place. I do not think the ending in D2 LoD is suitable for any kind of sequel and I dont think that person who made the story of D2 had the intention of making a follow up story. It certainly does not appear that way.
Look at the original Diablo, obviously supposed to have an sequel with a brilliant ending of letting the hero transform slowly into the evil he destroyed. Same with D2 end with the cliffhanger of Bhaal escaping his destruction. D3 has nothing in comparison; all the major connections to previous games have been cut.
If we go back Lord of the Rings for a moment it is a good example of this. The underlying message in ending of LoR is that the ages of other races has come to and end, the ancient evil has been vanquished (Morgoth/Sauron) and the age of men is dawning. That is our time and age starts, it symbolize that magic and the folklore once was true but now is gone from our world.
Notice that there are some similarities between D2LoD and LoR? The ancient evils was defeated, the old world stone was destroyed, the heavenly protectors are no longer needed as the prime evils are no more. Similiar to the ending of LoR and a very good ending of an epic story I think. <-- You are not supposed to make a sequel from this kind of story! It is like taking the Mona Lisa and use it as toilet paper.
But no of course you can always make a sequel if you want to. "Sauron did make an extra emergency ring in the Mount Doom, why would he not? Who wants to bet everything one card? So he just pretended to be dead for a couple of centuries, hiding in his "The One Ring 2.0". You know to lighten up the competition a bit. No more pointy ears to mess everything up this time!"
I give you Lord of the Rings 2! Arwen can even be in it, she should still be around! Cain anyone?
This is very much the same as Blizzard have done in D3. Or well I guess they put down a little bit more time then I did but otherwise it is the same. They want to use the brand Diablo cause it sells a lot of copies, even if it dont make any sense story wise. Okay no one can actually prove this and Blizzard would never ever in hell confirm this so if you want to believe that they made D3 cause the there was such a great story to be told there you go ahead.
Beause it would of course be completely unthinkable to make a new story in a new RPG, what a gamble, I am sure no one would give it any attention.
I'm sorry dude but you really didn't understand the plot in D2:LoD.
The worldstone was a piece of original god, an artifact capable of creating worlds and realms. And it was this the hell and heavens were fighting for. An angel and demon (i don't remeber the angel's name but the demon's was lilith) stole the worldstone created sanctuary and hid the sanctuary with worldstone's power. They reproduced and that's what created Nephalem(the humans). The prime evils do not represent all of the hells but they actually were overthrown and cast to sanctuary (as exiles).
So when the Baal corrupted the worldstone the worldstone had potential to corrupt all humans into joining the war in the side of Hell. That's why Tyrael destroyed the worldstone. By doing this he also distrupted worldstone's barrier and made it another battlefield for heaven and hell. (end of the days etc.)
You can know more by watching the lore discussions in the last Blizzcon. But there is a good progression and this is quite good in 'need to continue' point of view.
I'm sorry but you're wrong.
Well this is really weird.
Like this. Blizzard makes the story. As a result they can per se never be wrong. What they say happen, does happen. Of course Blizzard cannot say that the story that was I interpreted as the story, is the actual story, cause then there would be no sequel.
As there is not actual description of what happens in the end of D2 LoD, the consequences of the end can be what ever blizzards wants to now. And since they make a sequel obviously they are going to make the ending that fits their purpose in D3.
If blizzard wanted to make D3 were you flied dragons they would have said that the world stone contained dragon eggs that hatched all over the world and therefor you can fly you own dragon in D3. That would have been equally "true" if Blizzard has said so.
Dude we give you all kind of advice and evidence. We told you three times already to watch the lore panel to get some sense in your head, but all you do is hating on some story you know nothing about.
On April 17 2012 21:53 Klockan3 wrote: SC2 were the first RTS campaign where I felt that most of the actual gameplay in the missions fitted in with the story. In sc1 you attack whole planets by landing a CC there, the enemy doesn't react until roughly 5 minutes have gone by and then they send like 10 units. In wc2 you attack the dark portal which should be the most dangerous place on the planet by sending a really small army that builds a base next to it while the orcs just stands idly by doing their thing.
Therefore I think that SC2 had the best campaign. The earlier campaigns didn't make much sense from a gaming point of view. Sure the stories said that the battles where fierce and epic but there were no such things in the actual games.
I think that's the first time I've seen someone value SC2's campaign higher than that of SC/BW or the WarCraft series, especially with these arguments.
SC2's campaign is cheesy beyond any scale. Be it the humor targeted at 14 y/o's, horribly cheap storytelling (oh really, Tychus is a bad guy?), the countless side missions with zero consequence for the story except for a random cutscene or the incredibly cliched final mission / video. Oh, and there's plenty of that missing "logic" you attribute to SC1 or WarCraft - why doesn't Kerrigan attack earlier, why aren't the Protoss in the future missions simply crushed immediately by superior force, why hasn't Mengsk learned to deal with Raynor properly in the meantime ... and so forth, and so on.
SC/BW and Warcraft's campaign did not only set technical milestones at their respective time, but they also told a compelling story with great characters. SC2 has technically brilliant missions that are, time and time again, ruined by atrocious storytelling.
On April 16 2012 21:01 seodoth wrote: Please go back to wow, or try any other mmo and go back to wow Please replay the sc2 campaign or try any other rts and go back to starcraft 2 Please get a hold on diablo 3 beta, or get the game when its out, and compare it to any other rpg of the same nature. Maybe then you can develop some appreciation to the quality of blizzards games. Don't be so spoiled. Open your eyes for once and take a good look around you. Im getting sick of people thinking people working at blizzard think they just sit in offices on piles of wow subscriber money throwing darts at game design ideas on a huge chalkboard. Its so naive I have to puke. They are talented, VERY hard working people, and the great games we enjoy are a result of that.
Edit:
Then finally the game that really made all this come to mind. Diablo 3. To be honest I don’t even get the story in D3 yet. I tried to read about it but no. How do you continue the story from D2: LoD? There is no reasonable line of story progress. The 3 brothers of hatred where killed. Their souls where literally smashed. The original hero from Diablo is dead. The world stone was destroyed = the world as we knew it had come to an end, a new era starts, the last elfes have sailed to Valinor.
And OP, please do some goddamn effort. The worldstone is destroyed so the boundaries are gone and heavens and hell can freely invade sanctuary. There are 2 other lords of hell left. Go watch the lore panel of blizzcon 2011, go watch the gameplay and AH panel. My god I was almost crying cause the development team was so good and had such good gamedesign philosophy. And people like you are fucking whining about blizzard turning soft and losing their creativity?
Well yes there is a follow up story in D3 and yes Blizzard is famous for making epic CGI:s, no one is denying that. Blizzard can always scrap up some story though, I mean they have a least a couple writers working with them. The question is rather if there was meant to be one in the first place. I do not think the ending in D2 LoD is suitable for any kind of sequel and I dont think that person who made the story of D2 had the intention of making a follow up story. It certainly does not appear that way.
Look at the original Diablo, obviously supposed to have an sequel with a brilliant ending of letting the hero transform slowly into the evil he destroyed. Same with D2 end with the cliffhanger of Bhaal escaping his destruction. D3 has nothing in comparison; all the major connections to previous games have been cut.
If we go back Lord of the Rings for a moment it is a good example of this. The underlying message in ending of LoR is that the ages of other races has come to and end, the ancient evil has been vanquished (Morgoth/Sauron) and the age of men is dawning. That is our time and age starts, it symbolize that magic and the folklore once was true but now is gone from our world.
Notice that there are some similarities between D2LoD and LoR? The ancient evils was defeated, the old world stone was destroyed, the heavenly protectors are no longer needed as the prime evils are no more. Similiar to the ending of LoR and a very good ending of an epic story I think. <-- You are not supposed to make a sequel from this kind of story! It is like taking the Mona Lisa and use it as toilet paper.
But no of course you can always make a sequel if you want to. "Sauron did make an extra emergency ring in the Mount Doom, why would he not? Who wants to bet everything one card? So he just pretended to be dead for a couple of centuries, hiding in his "The One Ring 2.0". You know to lighten up the competition a bit. No more pointy ears to mess everything up this time!"
I give you Lord of the Rings 2! Arwen can even be in it, she should still be around! Cain anyone?
This is very much the same as Blizzard have done in D3. Or well I guess they put down a little bit more time then I did but otherwise it is the same. They want to use the brand Diablo cause it sells a lot of copies, even if it dont make any sense story wise. Okay no one can actually prove this and Blizzard would never ever in hell confirm this so if you want to believe that they made D3 cause the there was such a great story to be told there you go ahead.
Beause it would of course be completely unthinkable to make a new story in a new RPG, what a gamble, I am sure no one would give it any attention.
I'm sorry dude but you really didn't understand the plot in D2:LoD.
The worldstone was a piece of original god, an artifact capable of creating worlds and realms. And it was this the hell and heavens were fighting for. An angel and demon (i don't remeber the angel's name but the demon's was lilith) stole the worldstone created sanctuary and hid the sanctuary with worldstone's power. They reproduced and that's what created Nephalem(the humans). The prime evils do not represent all of the hells but they actually were overthrown and cast to sanctuary (as exiles).
So when the Baal corrupted the worldstone the worldstone had potential to corrupt all humans into joining the war in the side of Hell. That's why Tyrael destroyed the worldstone. By doing this he also distrupted worldstone's barrier and made it another battlefield for heaven and hell. (end of the days etc.)
You can know more by watching the lore discussions in the last Blizzcon. But there is a good progression and this is quite good in 'need to continue' point of view.
I'm sorry but you're wrong.
Well this is really weird.
Like this. Blizzard makes the story. As a result they can per se never be wrong. What they say happen, does happen. Of course Blizzard cannot say that the story that was I interpreted as the story, is the actual story, cause then there would be no sequel.
As there is not actual description of what happens in the end of D2 LoD, the consequences of the end can be what ever blizzards wants to now. And since they make a sequel obviously they are going to make the ending that fits their purpose in D3.
If blizzard wanted to make D3 were you flied dragons they would have said that the world stone contained dragon eggs that hatched all over the world and therefor you can fly you own dragon in D3. That would have been equally "true" if Blizzard has said so.
Dude we give you all kind of advice and evidence. We told you three times already to watch the lore panel to get some sense in your head, but all you do is hating on some story you know nothing about.
I remember from back when i finished D2... So no lore panel or anything.. That the world stone was more or less being a barrier between the Heaven/Hell/Human world and by it's destruction the doors between these worlds would actually be more open or something like this?
I no way was everything awesome and good and victory!!! It was iirc more or less that the Humans now have to be responsible for themselves instead of Tyrael and others watching over them?
On April 16 2012 21:01 seodoth wrote: Please go back to wow, or try any other mmo and go back to wow Please replay the sc2 campaign or try any other rts and go back to starcraft 2 Please get a hold on diablo 3 beta, or get the game when its out, and compare it to any other rpg of the same nature. Maybe then you can develop some appreciation to the quality of blizzards games. Don't be so spoiled. Open your eyes for once and take a good look around you. Im getting sick of people thinking people working at blizzard think they just sit in offices on piles of wow subscriber money throwing darts at game design ideas on a huge chalkboard. Its so naive I have to puke. They are talented, VERY hard working people, and the great games we enjoy are a result of that.
Edit:
Then finally the game that really made all this come to mind. Diablo 3. To be honest I don’t even get the story in D3 yet. I tried to read about it but no. How do you continue the story from D2: LoD? There is no reasonable line of story progress. The 3 brothers of hatred where killed. Their souls where literally smashed. The original hero from Diablo is dead. The world stone was destroyed = the world as we knew it had come to an end, a new era starts, the last elfes have sailed to Valinor.
And OP, please do some goddamn effort. The worldstone is destroyed so the boundaries are gone and heavens and hell can freely invade sanctuary. There are 2 other lords of hell left. Go watch the lore panel of blizzcon 2011, go watch the gameplay and AH panel. My god I was almost crying cause the development team was so good and had such good gamedesign philosophy. And people like you are fucking whining about blizzard turning soft and losing their creativity?
Well yes there is a follow up story in D3 and yes Blizzard is famous for making epic CGI:s, no one is denying that. Blizzard can always scrap up some story though, I mean they have a least a couple writers working with them. The question is rather if there was meant to be one in the first place. I do not think the ending in D2 LoD is suitable for any kind of sequel and I dont think that person who made the story of D2 had the intention of making a follow up story. It certainly does not appear that way.
Look at the original Diablo, obviously supposed to have an sequel with a brilliant ending of letting the hero transform slowly into the evil he destroyed. Same with D2 end with the cliffhanger of Bhaal escaping his destruction. D3 has nothing in comparison; all the major connections to previous games have been cut.
If we go back Lord of the Rings for a moment it is a good example of this. The underlying message in ending of LoR is that the ages of other races has come to and end, the ancient evil has been vanquished (Morgoth/Sauron) and the age of men is dawning. That is our time and age starts, it symbolize that magic and the folklore once was true but now is gone from our world.
Notice that there are some similarities between D2LoD and LoR? The ancient evils was defeated, the old world stone was destroyed, the heavenly protectors are no longer needed as the prime evils are no more. Similiar to the ending of LoR and a very good ending of an epic story I think. <-- You are not supposed to make a sequel from this kind of story! It is like taking the Mona Lisa and use it as toilet paper.
But no of course you can always make a sequel if you want to. "Sauron did make an extra emergency ring in the Mount Doom, why would he not? Who wants to bet everything one card? So he just pretended to be dead for a couple of centuries, hiding in his "The One Ring 2.0". You know to lighten up the competition a bit. No more pointy ears to mess everything up this time!"
I give you Lord of the Rings 2! Arwen can even be in it, she should still be around! Cain anyone?
This is very much the same as Blizzard have done in D3. Or well I guess they put down a little bit more time then I did but otherwise it is the same. They want to use the brand Diablo cause it sells a lot of copies, even if it dont make any sense story wise. Okay no one can actually prove this and Blizzard would never ever in hell confirm this so if you want to believe that they made D3 cause the there was such a great story to be told there you go ahead.
Beause it would of course be completely unthinkable to make a new story in a new RPG, what a gamble, I am sure no one would give it any attention.
I'm sorry dude but you really didn't understand the plot in D2:LoD.
The worldstone was a piece of original god, an artifact capable of creating worlds and realms. And it was this the hell and heavens were fighting for. An angel and demon (i don't remeber the angel's name but the demon's was lilith) stole the worldstone created sanctuary and hid the sanctuary with worldstone's power. They reproduced and that's what created Nephalem(the humans). The prime evils do not represent all of the hells but they actually were overthrown and cast to sanctuary (as exiles).
So when the Baal corrupted the worldstone the worldstone had potential to corrupt all humans into joining the war in the side of Hell. That's why Tyrael destroyed the worldstone. By doing this he also distrupted worldstone's barrier and made it another battlefield for heaven and hell. (end of the days etc.)
You can know more by watching the lore discussions in the last Blizzcon. But there is a good progression and this is quite good in 'need to continue' point of view.
I'm sorry but you're wrong.
Well this is really weird.
Like this. Blizzard makes the story. As a result they can per se never be wrong. What they say happen, does happen. Of course Blizzard cannot say that the story that was I interpreted as the story, is the actual story, cause then there would be no sequel.
As there is not actual description of what happens in the end of D2 LoD, the consequences of the end can be what ever blizzards wants to now. And since they make a sequel obviously they are going to make the ending that fits their purpose in D3.
If blizzard wanted to make D3 were you flied dragons they would have said that the world stone contained dragon eggs that hatched all over the world and therefor you can fly you own dragon in D3. That would have been equally "true" if Blizzard has said so.
Dude we give you all kind of advice and evidence. We told you three times already to watch the lore panel to get some sense in your head, but all you do is hating on some story you know nothing about.
Lovely comment, I feel enlightened now. Yes maybe I hate on the story, or well whatever. Regardless is that there should not be a continue of the story, no matter what the story is = If I know the story or not is irrelevant.
Their is no good story for Lord of the Rings 2, because it is not meant to be a sequel. The same is true for D2, the end make sense and all the major plots in Diablo series story has ended. The hero, Tristram, the prime evils all being gone, everything that the story evolved around is no more.
But as I said before I cannot be right here. Cause Blizzard makes the story, therefor it is impossible for them to be wrong. They can say whatever the like and all is "true" cause they make the truth. Blizzard is never ever in hell, not in a million years, going to say that their ending, which is open for some interpretation, is in conflict with there present story for there next big release. You would be an idiot to believe so.
Hence am I "wrong". Okay I stop here cause if you dont get this all further discussion is pointless.
On April 17 2012 10:37 Arkless wrote: Ughhh, I really hate all this SC2 campaign is shit talk. You havn't even played it all. You played one part of three, and to be honest I enjoyed WoL's story more than just the terran story in bw/sc1 personally.
This has no basis whatsoever. Before TFT and Before D2 their predecessors were hailed for having good story and background, backed with interesting new characters. RoC was really good with characters that invoke emotions from players and D1, despite it's very little dimension, had in interesting characters and story lines like Wirt, Cain, Griswold, Farnham, Leoric, Diablo, Butcher.
What does SC2 has? Narud = Duran. Seriously, who'd knew that Duran became a white, old person name Narud!!
On April 17 2012 21:53 Klockan3 wrote: SC2 were the first RTS campaign where I felt that most of the actual gameplay in the missions fitted in with the story. In sc1 you attack whole planets by landing a CC there, the enemy doesn't react until roughly 5 minutes have gone by and then they send like 10 units. In wc2 you attack the dark portal which should be the most dangerous place on the planet by sending a really small army that builds a base next to it while the orcs just stands idly by doing their thing.
Therefore I think that SC2 had the best campaign. The earlier campaigns didn't make much sense from a gaming point of view. Sure the stories said that the battles where fierce and epic but there were no such things in the actual games.
In sc bw the ued went in with style not only landing in with command center to establish the base . They brought in valkyries man looking at those flock of mutas getting torn apart was satisfying therefore sc 1 and bw had a better campaign . Warcraft 2 had much more immersive music and voice acting to it and for it to have that kind of story telling at that time it was pretty good with the limitation of technology that is available during that era .
I don't think Sc2 had the best campaign not when I was in sc1 commanding and taking part in a renegade terran faction trying to overthrow an empire and also inadvertently was used as a pawn in furthering some one plan to become a dictator of the starcraft planet . You don't see much conflicts in sc2 or politics and betrayal shown in the game and the sc1 and bw lore was much more darker than the one sc2 is having right now .
Hoh you are wrong buddy each campaign actually made sense from a gamer point of view, take a look at all the tutorial campaign they made it in such of a way that you get the basics straight out from the start making depots and marine . I don't know about you guys but playing about a guy sitting in a bar drinking alcohol all day ain't interesting . Not when I can strap in to the boots of a commander and get in to the action right away .
Dude we give you all kind of advice and evidence. We told you three times already to watch the lore panel to get some sense in your head, but all you do is hating on some story you know nothing about.
Lovely comment, I feel enlightened now. Yes maybe I hate on the story, or well whatever. Regardless is that there should not be a continue of the story, that is regardless of the story = If I know the story or not is irrelevant.
Their is no good story for Lord of the Rings 2, because it is not meant to be a sequel. The same is true for D2, the end make sense and all the major plots in Diablo series story has ended. The hero, Tristram, the prime evils all being gone, everything that the story evolved around is no more.
But as I said before I cannot be right here. Cause Blizzard makes the story, therefor it is impossible for them to be wrong. They can say whatever the like and all is "true" cause they make the truth. Blizzard is never ever in hell, not in a million years, going to say that their ending, which is open for some interpretation, is in conflict with there present story for there next big release. You would be an idiot to believe so. Hence am I "wrong".
Okay I stop here cause if you dont get this all further discussion is pointless.
Holy shit man. Its not that hard to see a good story from a bad, which this whole discussion is about. Your example with the dragon eggs is bad, and if blizz wouldve come up with that they'd be righteously flamed. But even so we would flame, i STILL would hold back any judgement until i played the game. The info they released thus far sounds VERY good tho and thus i think its retarded to say they are "declining in creativity". But you just stubbornly refuse to watch the lore panel and inform yourself, or you just fail to appreciate good game design.
Dude we give you all kind of advice and evidence. We told you three times already to watch the lore panel to get some sense in your head, but all you do is hating on some story you know nothing about.
Lovely comment, I feel enlightened now. Yes maybe I hate on the story, or well whatever. Regardless is that there should not be a continue of the story, that is regardless of the story = If I know the story or not is irrelevant.
Their is no good story for Lord of the Rings 2, because it is not meant to be a sequel. The same is true for D2, the end make sense and all the major plots in Diablo series story has ended. The hero, Tristram, the prime evils all being gone, everything that the story evolved around is no more.
But as I said before I cannot be right here. Cause Blizzard makes the story, therefor it is impossible for them to be wrong. They can say whatever the like and all is "true" cause they make the truth. Blizzard is never ever in hell, not in a million years, going to say that their ending, which is open for some interpretation, is in conflict with there present story for there next big release. You would be an idiot to believe so. Hence am I "wrong".
Okay I stop here cause if you dont get this all further discussion is pointless.
Holy shit man. Its not that hard to see a good story from a bad, which this whole discussion is about. Your example with the dragon eggs is bad, and if blizz wouldve come up with that they'd be righteously flamed. But even so we would flame, i STILL would hold back any judgement until i played the game. The info they released thus far sounds VERY good tho and thus i think its retarded to say they are "declining in creativity". But you just stubbornly refuse to watch the lore panel and inform yourself, or you just fail to appreciate good game design.
Okay this is getting tiresome, I have to agree on the point of me being stubborn, otherwise I would not do this.
The dragon eggs was not meant to be an example of a good story. It was meant to say that Blizzard makes the story that suit what they want for there next game. And btw I might still buy the game if it get good reviews, regardless of the story I might wanne play it a bit with some mates so.
Yes I guess the story might be good. Or well the best it can be from the starting point is has. My argument is not that the story is bad, my argument is that some stories is suppose to end. I think D2 has such a story. There is no need for a sequel of D2 story wise, it has an good end.
If we go away from games and look at movies for a moment. Movies have been a medium for telling stories in over 100 years. Yet for some reason movies rarely goes beyond the second sequel, and when they do they are pretty much without exception bad. Why is this?
Cause sequels makes story progressively worse, more restrained and just plain weird. Games however can have many, many, sequels. Games can do this cause they either shift focus to the gameplay or the game did not have much story to begin with. This however does not change the fact that the same effect that happens in the stories of movies does also apply in games. Only difference is that movies cannot afford to have bad story cause they have very little else to work with in their medium.
Hence there should be an incitement for gaming companies to make new stories instead of over abusing old stories over and over again and by doing so making them progressively worse with time.
EPT
And that's just time actively logged in.
