On April 06 2012 04:01 Holcan wrote: did you watch the dunk even? deandre pushes griffen after the dunk over perkins.
Look at my original question. I asked why DeAndre pushed Griffin after the dunk. It was never about why Griffin had that look on his face. I get the whole getting hyped and stoked after the play, but I was surprised to see DeAndre push Griffin after that dunk since it looked like he was pissed.
Stan can gundy confirmed today that Dwight Howard wants him out of a coaching spot. This is such bullshit that a player can force his team to do this stuff. Last I checked, he's a player, not the gm
On April 05 2012 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Move out the way Lob City, Laker Nation still owns this town.
Final stats for Kobe and Bynum the one two punch that KO'd the clips tonight.
Kobe: 31 pts, 5 Rebs, 6 assists
Bynum: 36 pts, 8 rebs, 4 blks
Yea more importantly Kobe's been saving the clutch jumper a few games now. No double team and hes going to make that over a smaller defender. I mean he takes alot of bad shots and his percentages are really off. But man, you just cant not like how much clutch gene he has.
2 clutch shots in 2 consecutive games.
And there's still people that argue that Kobe isn't clutch. It blows my mind.
It blows my mind that people still thinks he's the epitome of clutch. Statistically he's average, shooting about 31% (when trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97. NBA-wide the avg is 29.7%). According to that even lebron is more accurate at 33%. It's just the sheer volume of shots kobe takes at the end of games that makes it seem like he's always hitting them. He also has an incredibly low assist count over the same period in the last 24 seconds. I'd take cp3/durant/melo/dirk over kobe in the clutch any day.
I agree with this so much.
On April 05 2012 18:08 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 05 2012 18:03 Scarecrow wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:28 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:22 Rebs wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Move out the way Lob City, Laker Nation still owns this town.
Final stats for Kobe and Bynum the one two punch that KO'd the clips tonight.
Kobe: 31 pts, 5 Rebs, 6 assists
Bynum: 36 pts, 8 rebs, 4 blks
Yea more importantly Kobe's been saving the clutch jumper a few games now. No double team and hes going to make that over a smaller defender. I mean he takes alot of bad shots and his percentages are really off. But man, you just cant not like how much clutch gene he has.
2 clutch shots in 2 consecutive games.
And there's still people that argue that Kobe isn't clutch. It blows my mind.
It blows my mind that people still thinks he's the epitome of clutch. Statistically he's average, shooting about 31% (when trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97. NBA-wide the avg is 29.7%). According to that even lebron is more accurate at 33%. It's just the sheer volume of shots kobe takes at the end of games that makes it seem like he's always hitting them. He also has an incredibly low assist count over the same period in the last 24 seconds. I'd take cp3/durant/melo/dirk over kobe in the clutch any day.
Melo?
rofl.
That just tells you how deceiving stats can be, that you'll trust them to go with Melo in a clutch situation over Kobe Bryant. You're so busy reading numbers that you're completely missing what's right in front of you.
Dirk CP3 and Durant are all clutch as well, and they share with Kobe something Melo sorely lacks. A true competitiveness that never dies no matter what the score is and that inspires the teammates around him to keep playing.
Come on, stop it.
Vindicare can't even detect sarcasm, don't expect him to understand what evidence means.
Oh I called you on yours, it was just such an outlandish statment the fact someone even said it sarcastically got to me admittedly more than it should.
As for evidence.
And that video doesn't even include clips from 2011 or 2012. Which would add at least another 8-10 shots.
On April 06 2012 06:14 ranshaked wrote: Stan can gundy confirmed today that Dwight Howard wants him out of a coaching spot. This is such bullshit that a player can force his team to do this stuff. Last I checked, he's a player, not the gm
On April 05 2012 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Move out the way Lob City, Laker Nation still owns this town.
Final stats for Kobe and Bynum the one two punch that KO'd the clips tonight.
Kobe: 31 pts, 5 Rebs, 6 assists
Bynum: 36 pts, 8 rebs, 4 blks
Yea more importantly Kobe's been saving the clutch jumper a few games now. No double team and hes going to make that over a smaller defender. I mean he takes alot of bad shots and his percentages are really off. But man, you just cant not like how much clutch gene he has.
2 clutch shots in 2 consecutive games.
And there's still people that argue that Kobe isn't clutch. It blows my mind.
It blows my mind that people still thinks he's the epitome of clutch. Statistically he's average, shooting about 31% (when trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97. NBA-wide the avg is 29.7%). According to that even lebron is more accurate at 33%. It's just the sheer volume of shots kobe takes at the end of games that makes it seem like he's always hitting them. He also has an incredibly low assist count over the same period in the last 24 seconds. I'd take cp3/durant/melo/dirk over kobe in the clutch any day.
I agree with this so much.
On April 05 2012 18:08 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 05 2012 18:03 Scarecrow wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:28 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:22 Rebs wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Move out the way Lob City, Laker Nation still owns this town.
Final stats for Kobe and Bynum the one two punch that KO'd the clips tonight.
Kobe: 31 pts, 5 Rebs, 6 assists
Bynum: 36 pts, 8 rebs, 4 blks
Yea more importantly Kobe's been saving the clutch jumper a few games now. No double team and hes going to make that over a smaller defender. I mean he takes alot of bad shots and his percentages are really off. But man, you just cant not like how much clutch gene he has.
2 clutch shots in 2 consecutive games.
And there's still people that argue that Kobe isn't clutch. It blows my mind.
It blows my mind that people still thinks he's the epitome of clutch. Statistically he's average, shooting about 31% (when trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97. NBA-wide the avg is 29.7%). According to that even lebron is more accurate at 33%. It's just the sheer volume of shots kobe takes at the end of games that makes it seem like he's always hitting them. He also has an incredibly low assist count over the same period in the last 24 seconds. I'd take cp3/durant/melo/dirk over kobe in the clutch any day.
Melo?
rofl.
That just tells you how deceiving stats can be, that you'll trust them to go with Melo in a clutch situation over Kobe Bryant. You're so busy reading numbers that you're completely missing what's right in front of you.
Dirk CP3 and Durant are all clutch as well, and they share with Kobe something Melo sorely lacks. A true competitiveness that never dies no matter what the score is and that inspires the teammates around him to keep playing.
Come on, stop it.
Vindicare can't even detect sarcasm, don't expect him to understand what evidence means.
Oh I called you on yours, it was just such an outlandish statment the fact someone even said it sarcastically got to me admittedly more than it should.
On April 05 2012 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Move out the way Lob City, Laker Nation still owns this town.
Final stats for Kobe and Bynum the one two punch that KO'd the clips tonight.
Kobe: 31 pts, 5 Rebs, 6 assists
Bynum: 36 pts, 8 rebs, 4 blks
Yea more importantly Kobe's been saving the clutch jumper a few games now. No double team and hes going to make that over a smaller defender. I mean he takes alot of bad shots and his percentages are really off. But man, you just cant not like how much clutch gene he has.
2 clutch shots in 2 consecutive games.
And there's still people that argue that Kobe isn't clutch. It blows my mind.
It blows my mind that people still thinks he's the epitome of clutch. Statistically he's average, shooting about 31% (when trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97. NBA-wide the avg is 29.7%). According to that even lebron is more accurate at 33%. It's just the sheer volume of shots kobe takes at the end of games that makes it seem like he's always hitting them. He also has an incredibly low assist count over the same period in the last 24 seconds. I'd take cp3/durant/melo/dirk over kobe in the clutch any day.
I agree with this so much.
On April 05 2012 18:08 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 05 2012 18:03 Scarecrow wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:28 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:22 Rebs wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Move out the way Lob City, Laker Nation still owns this town.
Final stats for Kobe and Bynum the one two punch that KO'd the clips tonight.
Kobe: 31 pts, 5 Rebs, 6 assists
Bynum: 36 pts, 8 rebs, 4 blks
Yea more importantly Kobe's been saving the clutch jumper a few games now. No double team and hes going to make that over a smaller defender. I mean he takes alot of bad shots and his percentages are really off. But man, you just cant not like how much clutch gene he has.
2 clutch shots in 2 consecutive games.
And there's still people that argue that Kobe isn't clutch. It blows my mind.
It blows my mind that people still thinks he's the epitome of clutch. Statistically he's average, shooting about 31% (when trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97. NBA-wide the avg is 29.7%). According to that even lebron is more accurate at 33%. It's just the sheer volume of shots kobe takes at the end of games that makes it seem like he's always hitting them. He also has an incredibly low assist count over the same period in the last 24 seconds. I'd take cp3/durant/melo/dirk over kobe in the clutch any day.
Melo?
rofl.
That just tells you how deceiving stats can be, that you'll trust them to go with Melo in a clutch situation over Kobe Bryant. You're so busy reading numbers that you're completely missing what's right in front of you.
Dirk CP3 and Durant are all clutch as well, and they share with Kobe something Melo sorely lacks. A true competitiveness that never dies no matter what the score is and that inspires the teammates around him to keep playing.
Come on, stop it.
Vindicare can't even detect sarcasm, don't expect him to understand what evidence means.
Oh I called you on yours, it was just such an outlandish statment the fact someone even said it sarcastically got to me admittedly more than it should.
On April 05 2012 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Move out the way Lob City, Laker Nation still owns this town.
Final stats for Kobe and Bynum the one two punch that KO'd the clips tonight.
Kobe: 31 pts, 5 Rebs, 6 assists
Bynum: 36 pts, 8 rebs, 4 blks
Yea more importantly Kobe's been saving the clutch jumper a few games now. No double team and hes going to make that over a smaller defender. I mean he takes alot of bad shots and his percentages are really off. But man, you just cant not like how much clutch gene he has.
2 clutch shots in 2 consecutive games.
And there's still people that argue that Kobe isn't clutch. It blows my mind.
It blows my mind that people still thinks he's the epitome of clutch. Statistically he's average, shooting about 31% (when trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97. NBA-wide the avg is 29.7%). According to that even lebron is more accurate at 33%. It's just the sheer volume of shots kobe takes at the end of games that makes it seem like he's always hitting them. He also has an incredibly low assist count over the same period in the last 24 seconds. I'd take cp3/durant/melo/dirk over kobe in the clutch any day.
I agree with this so much.
On April 05 2012 18:08 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 05 2012 18:03 Scarecrow wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:28 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:22 Rebs wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Move out the way Lob City, Laker Nation still owns this town.
Final stats for Kobe and Bynum the one two punch that KO'd the clips tonight.
Kobe: 31 pts, 5 Rebs, 6 assists
Bynum: 36 pts, 8 rebs, 4 blks
Yea more importantly Kobe's been saving the clutch jumper a few games now. No double team and hes going to make that over a smaller defender. I mean he takes alot of bad shots and his percentages are really off. But man, you just cant not like how much clutch gene he has.
2 clutch shots in 2 consecutive games.
And there's still people that argue that Kobe isn't clutch. It blows my mind.
It blows my mind that people still thinks he's the epitome of clutch. Statistically he's average, shooting about 31% (when trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97. NBA-wide the avg is 29.7%). According to that even lebron is more accurate at 33%. It's just the sheer volume of shots kobe takes at the end of games that makes it seem like he's always hitting them. He also has an incredibly low assist count over the same period in the last 24 seconds. I'd take cp3/durant/melo/dirk over kobe in the clutch any day.
Melo?
rofl.
That just tells you how deceiving stats can be, that you'll trust them to go with Melo in a clutch situation over Kobe Bryant. You're so busy reading numbers that you're completely missing what's right in front of you.
Dirk CP3 and Durant are all clutch as well, and they share with Kobe something Melo sorely lacks. A true competitiveness that never dies no matter what the score is and that inspires the teammates around him to keep playing.
Come on, stop it.
Vindicare can't even detect sarcasm, don't expect him to understand what evidence means.
Oh I called you on yours, it was just such an outlandish statment the fact someone even said it sarcastically got to me admittedly more than it should.
And that video doesn't even include clips from 2011 or 2012. Which would add at least another 8-10 shots.
That's not evidence, that's a highlight reel. You literally just picked points where it worked for him; you can do that with any top player. What that video shows is when Kobe fails to pull it off, when he sometimes does.
On April 05 2012 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Move out the way Lob City, Laker Nation still owns this town.
Final stats for Kobe and Bynum the one two punch that KO'd the clips tonight.
Kobe: 31 pts, 5 Rebs, 6 assists
Bynum: 36 pts, 8 rebs, 4 blks
Yea more importantly Kobe's been saving the clutch jumper a few games now. No double team and hes going to make that over a smaller defender. I mean he takes alot of bad shots and his percentages are really off. But man, you just cant not like how much clutch gene he has.
2 clutch shots in 2 consecutive games.
And there's still people that argue that Kobe isn't clutch. It blows my mind.
It blows my mind that people still thinks he's the epitome of clutch. Statistically he's average, shooting about 31% (when trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97. NBA-wide the avg is 29.7%). According to that even lebron is more accurate at 33%. It's just the sheer volume of shots kobe takes at the end of games that makes it seem like he's always hitting them. He also has an incredibly low assist count over the same period in the last 24 seconds. I'd take cp3/durant/melo/dirk over kobe in the clutch any day.
I agree with this so much.
On April 05 2012 18:08 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 05 2012 18:03 Scarecrow wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:28 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:22 Rebs wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Move out the way Lob City, Laker Nation still owns this town.
Final stats for Kobe and Bynum the one two punch that KO'd the clips tonight.
Kobe: 31 pts, 5 Rebs, 6 assists
Bynum: 36 pts, 8 rebs, 4 blks
Yea more importantly Kobe's been saving the clutch jumper a few games now. No double team and hes going to make that over a smaller defender. I mean he takes alot of bad shots and his percentages are really off. But man, you just cant not like how much clutch gene he has.
2 clutch shots in 2 consecutive games.
And there's still people that argue that Kobe isn't clutch. It blows my mind.
It blows my mind that people still thinks he's the epitome of clutch. Statistically he's average, shooting about 31% (when trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97. NBA-wide the avg is 29.7%). According to that even lebron is more accurate at 33%. It's just the sheer volume of shots kobe takes at the end of games that makes it seem like he's always hitting them. He also has an incredibly low assist count over the same period in the last 24 seconds. I'd take cp3/durant/melo/dirk over kobe in the clutch any day.
Melo?
rofl.
That just tells you how deceiving stats can be, that you'll trust them to go with Melo in a clutch situation over Kobe Bryant. You're so busy reading numbers that you're completely missing what's right in front of you.
Dirk CP3 and Durant are all clutch as well, and they share with Kobe something Melo sorely lacks. A true competitiveness that never dies no matter what the score is and that inspires the teammates around him to keep playing.
Come on, stop it.
Vindicare can't even detect sarcasm, don't expect him to understand what evidence means.
Oh I called you on yours, it was just such an outlandish statment the fact someone even said it sarcastically got to me admittedly more than it should.
And that video doesn't even include clips from 2011 or 2012. Which would add at least another 8-10 shots.
That's not evidence, that's a highlight reel. You literally just picked points where it worked for him; you can do that with any top player. What that video shows is when Kobe fails to pull it off, when he sometimes does.
By most clutch, the criteria that I think most people go by, is consistently, do it, and do it often enough to notice. Kobe does it... a lot... yes statistically lifetime he's 2-5% lower than others, but I'm sure you can find a guy, who has a 100% chance, because he shot a game winner ONCE. does that make said player the best ever? of course not, what sets kobe apart, is that he's amazing at it, he does it, rocks it. wants it, bleeds it, and continually does it time and time again. Find one person with a highlight reel of game winners, that lasts 9 minutes long.
I think you're right in that's what people usually use, but I don't think that it's a good way to define it- those with statistically higher percentages may not have a rep for it, but all that means is that they don't attempt it as many times- which leads to less sheer clutch moments, yes, but also means that they blow fewer ends of games as well- they can be/are more clutch when they need to be.
I guess to me it's different than most. There are a couple of isolation scorers I'd rather have besides Kobe taking the last shot because they are a threat to pass, and have better setup isolation moves 30ft from the basket. While Kobe has the ability to do the smart thing, when he gets doubled or forced into a difficult shot (in an already difficult situation) he screws up big time.
Of course people just point to his 16 year career and go BUT LOOK HOW MANY TIMES HE DID IT! and forget just how bad Kobe has been in playoff series at times, or how many "clutch" shots he's missed in big moments. I'd take Wade or Lebron over Kobe in a playoff game 10/10 times just because over a series they produce so much more than Kobe typically does even when playing with less help than he has.
There was a good interview about the end-game iso player with Morey a couple days ago:
JCF: We’ve talked so much over the last few years about having that star come crunch time and all the mythology behind that. This team in particular though seems to fare pretty well and execute at an above average rate in clutch situations, even without having that traditional “closer.”
DM: I think the reality is that no one is any good at crunch time. I think if you’ve got a guy who can create his own shot then you’re better off than not.
I think the biggest misnomer people have … I’ve seen a lot of things like, ‘You should run a play. You should just do your normal things.’ Well, the reason why teams go with a particular isolation play, even though that often has a low efficiency because it’s just hard to score for anybody, I don’t care how good you are, is not because teams think that’s optimal for scoring, it’s because it’s optimal for controlling the amount of time the other team has after the play. If you’re just running a set and a team jumps it or tries to disrupt it, it can really change the timing of when your shot goes off and it’s a massive, massive difference how many ticks are left when the other team gets the ball.
So a lot of what people want to criticize coaches for which is ‘Don’t they know that guy is bad in isolation; don’t they know this?’ – it’s really because they’re not, in my opinion, thinking about the big picture which is controlling the clock the other way in terms of when your opponent gets the ball back. Even three seconds with an advance of the ball is a huge difference versus only having one second. The efficiency drop based on you controlling the clock the other way is a massive difference.
On April 05 2012 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Move out the way Lob City, Laker Nation still owns this town.
Final stats for Kobe and Bynum the one two punch that KO'd the clips tonight.
Kobe: 31 pts, 5 Rebs, 6 assists
Bynum: 36 pts, 8 rebs, 4 blks
Yea more importantly Kobe's been saving the clutch jumper a few games now. No double team and hes going to make that over a smaller defender. I mean he takes alot of bad shots and his percentages are really off. But man, you just cant not like how much clutch gene he has.
2 clutch shots in 2 consecutive games.
And there's still people that argue that Kobe isn't clutch. It blows my mind.
It blows my mind that people still thinks he's the epitome of clutch. Statistically he's average, shooting about 31% (when trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97. NBA-wide the avg is 29.7%). According to that even lebron is more accurate at 33%. It's just the sheer volume of shots kobe takes at the end of games that makes it seem like he's always hitting them. He also has an incredibly low assist count over the same period in the last 24 seconds. I'd take cp3/durant/melo/dirk over kobe in the clutch any day.
I agree with this so much.
On April 05 2012 18:08 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 05 2012 18:03 Scarecrow wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:28 Vindicare605 wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:22 Rebs wrote:
On April 05 2012 14:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Move out the way Lob City, Laker Nation still owns this town.
Final stats for Kobe and Bynum the one two punch that KO'd the clips tonight.
Kobe: 31 pts, 5 Rebs, 6 assists
Bynum: 36 pts, 8 rebs, 4 blks
Yea more importantly Kobe's been saving the clutch jumper a few games now. No double team and hes going to make that over a smaller defender. I mean he takes alot of bad shots and his percentages are really off. But man, you just cant not like how much clutch gene he has.
2 clutch shots in 2 consecutive games.
And there's still people that argue that Kobe isn't clutch. It blows my mind.
It blows my mind that people still thinks he's the epitome of clutch. Statistically he's average, shooting about 31% (when trailing by one or two points, or tied, in the final 24 seconds of regular-season and playoff games since 1996-97. NBA-wide the avg is 29.7%). According to that even lebron is more accurate at 33%. It's just the sheer volume of shots kobe takes at the end of games that makes it seem like he's always hitting them. He also has an incredibly low assist count over the same period in the last 24 seconds. I'd take cp3/durant/melo/dirk over kobe in the clutch any day.
Melo?
rofl.
That just tells you how deceiving stats can be, that you'll trust them to go with Melo in a clutch situation over Kobe Bryant. You're so busy reading numbers that you're completely missing what's right in front of you.
Dirk CP3 and Durant are all clutch as well, and they share with Kobe something Melo sorely lacks. A true competitiveness that never dies no matter what the score is and that inspires the teammates around him to keep playing.
Come on, stop it.
Vindicare can't even detect sarcasm, don't expect him to understand what evidence means.
Oh I called you on yours, it was just such an outlandish statment the fact someone even said it sarcastically got to me admittedly more than it should.
On April 06 2012 06:14 ranshaked wrote: Stan can gundy confirmed today that Dwight Howard wants him out of a coaching spot. This is such bullshit that a player can force his team to do this stuff. Last I checked, he's a player, not the gm
EPT
