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NBA Regular Season 2011-2012 - Page 235

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RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13537 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-14 02:56:57
March 14 2012 02:55 GMT
#4681
On March 14 2012 11:41 nemY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2012 11:35 RowdierBob wrote:
On March 14 2012 11:18 slyboogie wrote:
On March 14 2012 11:03 RowdierBob wrote:
On March 14 2012 10:52 slyboogie wrote:
On March 14 2012 10:47 RowdierBob wrote:
GS was going nowhere with the Curry/Monta core though. They had to choose one and they did. Curry is the better of the two for me and Bogut the defensive anchor they've been looking for. The Warriors must be pretty high on Klay Thompson's future too.

Bogut's elbow is what it is. He's made no secret about it and the Warriors would have known. It will never be 100%, but it doens't keep him from playing games. It has just made his hook shot and FT shooting less reliable.

Monta is an overrated player for me. A true blackhole if ever there was one. The Warriors didn't get Dwight, but still got a comparable elite defensive anchor. Bogut's lack of offense won't be a big an issue with Curry and Lee. He can be the third/fourth option on offence which is better suited to him at this stage.

The trade makes sense for the Warriors. Injuries are the X-factor going forward (Bogut and Curry). The Warriors will be terrible this year now and might be able to keep their pick now from the Jazz (is it top 8 protected?). If they do keep their pick and draft a strong swingman then 2012 is looking pretty strong:

Curry
Thompson/Pick
Wright/Pick
Lee
Bogut




Yes. The beauty of this move is that it effectively keeps the 2012 first round pick in the hands of the Warriors. They have an actual vested interest in trading away current wins for future wins. That's to say, Ellis+Udoh is worth more wins than Bogut+SJax today - because neither Bogut or Jackson are playing >_> but Bogut is a better player than Ellis is and is positionally more scarce.

I hate tanking in general, but this is not a bad plan.


Embrace the tank. I will turn you one day.

Jax is irrelevant to this trade really. Bucks wanted to shed his salary and Warriors took him as a means to get Bogut. Jax may play some token minutes for the rest of the season, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's amestied (or wait, I think maybe you can't amesty a traded player? Not sure). Either way, I doubt Jax is part of any plans for the Warriors after this season.


Sorry Evil Tanker, SJax is on contract for $10 million for another season after this one. Bwahaha.

But yes, if GSW can hit in the lottery 1/2/3 and land Michael Gilchrist or Harrison Barnes or even Perry Jones (total Warriors player - tantalizing and disappointing) at 6-7-8, they should be very happy. It's not gonna make them a Conference Finals team but it should put them in a nice spot.


Jax is the bitter pill they need to swallow to get the big man they've wanted for a while. Jax will help the GS tank this year (he's terrible) and at least be an expiring next year to trade for whatever they can get (or just let him walk...).

Harrison Barnes would be the ideal player for GS to get, but I doubt they will get a high enough pick to secure him (unless they get Chicago luck in the lottery).

GS have definitely upgraded (not sure by how much). It's just a matter of staying healthy for them. That's their big risk factor now.


Rumor has it the trade was completed today so the Dubs could try and see if they can move Jax again before the deadline... which begs the question... what can you really get for Stephen Jackson?


He has strategic value as Dwight bait. I'd be calling Orlando or the Nets if I'm GS's GM to see if they're interested in doing something.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
March 14 2012 03:00 GMT
#4682
Lebron doing a stay in school ad. What is this world coming to?
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16129 Posts
March 14 2012 03:00 GMT
#4683
WHO SAID WE NEED DWIGHT HOWARD!

WE HAVE ANDREW BYNUM BABY!
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
holy_war
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States3590 Posts
March 14 2012 03:00 GMT
#4684
That a boy Bynum.
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-14 03:08:38
March 14 2012 03:02 GMT
#4685
That Kobe + Pau pick and roll is so hard to defend, teams usually comes off the pick double teaming Kobe, and kobe pass the Pau, then then their 2nd big man will rotate to defend the rolling Pau, and then Pau loop that shit inside to Bynum cause both their bigs are now lured out. Lakers ran this play like 5 times and scored dunks for Bynum all 5 times.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
March 14 2012 03:17 GMT
#4686
On March 14 2012 11:52 Ace wrote:
In the finals when Dallas played Zone vs Miami, Miami gave the ball to Wade and he went right to the hoop every time.

Later on, Dallas zoned up on the opposite side of the court and tried to trap Wade when Miami adjusted. He would immediately split the double team on a dribble handoff and go right to the hoop.

This season, Indiana tried to play zone vs Miami a few weeks ago. Miami killed it. With 1 elite slasher (the major weakness of Zone Defense), Mike Miller healthy and Mario Chalmers shooting over 40% for the season from 3 point range why would teams keep zoning up vs Miami? Early this year there were articles about Miami playing badly vs Zone in the finals and look! - no one talks about it anymore because it just doesn't work on them.

I mean just step back for a second here: If the prevailing sentiment is that Miami struggles vs Zone Defense then obviously they would be seeing it every single game all season long. We are assuming most NBA coaches would go for any advantage they can vs Miami correct? Why would Miami only see zone in the playoffs and not now when teams are going to still want to win games?


So again, 2 things..

First, I agree that a brilliant slasher is the best way to crack a zone. But the zone makes it harder for the guy to get to the rim. That's the point of the zone. Someone like Dwyane Wade is great because he doesn't stop trying to penetrate and he is a good enough of a passer to get the ball to someone. And so far, Mike Miller, Lebron James, Mario Chalmers and James Jones are all hitting over 40% on 3s I think. So things look good or at least, gooder, that I can agree with.

But secondly, Miami has clearly struggled against the zone. I don't think this is a truism in any sense. I think Atlanta dropped a zone in Janurary? The offense is just more stagnant. As for why it isn't used, I suspect it's just that the zone isn't really a sustainable plan, so coaches don't coach it regularly, especially in this season, where teams don't practice.

Anyways, it's not like I have any empirical evidence or hours of tape. I just think, from everything I've seen, Miami has performed poorly when they see zone.

"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
nemY
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States3119 Posts
March 14 2012 03:20 GMT
#4687
Oh mah gawd. I just realized something terrible. With Udoh gone and Bogut injured for the rest of the year (more or less) the Warriors are going to default back to Biedrins as starting Center. WHAT HAVE THEY DONE?

[image blocked]
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-14 03:25:20
March 14 2012 03:21 GMT
#4688
GALINARIIIIIIIIIIIII

WOW, WHAT AN ENDING

OT in Denver.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16129 Posts
March 14 2012 03:28 GMT
#4689
On March 14 2012 12:21 Jibba wrote:
GALINARIIIIIIIIIIIII

WOW, WHAT AN ENDING

OT in Denver.


Wow, double OT in memphis, OT in Orlando, down to the last second in OKC and OT in Denver also.

What a night in the NBA.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
scarper65
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
1560 Posts
March 14 2012 03:31 GMT
#4690
Great games today, a ton of super close ones.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-14 03:49:02
March 14 2012 03:48 GMT
#4691
Poor Zaza Pachulia. He was getting abused all night long, and then he misses an open layup for the win.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
JiYan
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3668 Posts
March 14 2012 03:56 GMT
#4692
life as a warriors fan is so depressing
Doraemon
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Australia14949 Posts
March 14 2012 04:12 GMT
#4693
On March 14 2012 12:56 JiYan wrote:
life as a warriors fan is so depressing


wth happened to dorrell
Do yourself a favour and just STFU
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
March 14 2012 04:27 GMT
#4694
On March 14 2012 13:12 Doraemon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2012 12:56 JiYan wrote:
life as a warriors fan is so depressing


wth happened to dorrell

Mark Jackson, and a decent replacement have cut his minutes, and Dorrell is as streaky as they come, when your coach has little faith, you lose it yourself.
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
Riskr
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany403 Posts
March 14 2012 04:40 GMT
#4695
On March 14 2012 11:52 Ace wrote:
In the finals when Dallas played Zone vs Miami, Miami gave the ball to Wade and he went right to the hoop every time.

Later on, Dallas zoned up on the opposite side of the court and tried to trap Wade when Miami adjusted. He would immediately split the double team on a dribble handoff and go right to the hoop.

This season, Indiana tried to play zone vs Miami a few weeks ago. Miami killed it. With 1 elite slasher (the major weakness of Zone Defense), Mike Miller healthy and Mario Chalmers shooting over 40% for the season from 3 point range why would teams keep zoning up vs Miami? Early this year there were articles about Miami playing badly vs Zone in the finals and look! - no one talks about it anymore because it just doesn't work on them.

I mean just step back for a second here: If the prevailing sentiment is that Miami struggles vs Zone Defense then obviously they would be seeing it every single game all season long. We are assuming most NBA coaches would go for any advantage they can vs Miami correct? Why would Miami only see zone in the playoffs and not now when teams are going to still want to win games?


So again, 2 things..

First, I agree that a brilliant slasher is the best way to crack a zone. But the zone makes it harder for the guy to get to the rim. That's the point of the zone. Someone like Dwyane Wade is great because he doesn't stop trying to penetrate and he is a good enough of a passer to get the ball to someone. And so far, Mike Miller, Lebron James, Mario Chalmers and James Jones are all hitting over 40% on 3s I think. So things look good or at least, gooder, that I can agree with.

But secondly, Miami has clearly struggled against the zone. I don't think this is a truism in any sense. I think Atlanta dropped a zone in Janurary? The offense is just more stagnant. As for why it isn't used, I suspect it's just that the zone isn't really a sustainable plan, so coaches don't coach it regularly, especially in this season, where teams don't practice.

Anyways, it's not like I have any empirical evidence or hours of tape. I just think, from everything I've seen, Miami has performed poorly when they see zone.

You underestimate the Mavs D last year,they switched to Zone in the right moments,and you can´t deny that the matrix is the best wing defender in league.name a better one,really?!
Hell he even shut down Kobe!
Deshawn is also one of the best at that position.
Overall i can´t state enough that the Mavs D last year was impeccable.
Ain´t no mind to the battles you´ve won!
Riskr
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany403 Posts
March 14 2012 04:43 GMT
#4696
If Bynum stays healthy,he is a monster.
Ain´t no mind to the battles you´ve won!
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13537 Posts
March 14 2012 04:44 GMT
#4697
On March 14 2012 12:20 nemY wrote:
Oh mah gawd. I just realized something terrible. With Udoh gone and Bogut injured for the rest of the year (more or less) the Warriors are going to default back to Biedrins as starting Center. WHAT HAVE THEY DONE?

[image blocked]


It's a good thing. Warriors weren't going anywhere this year anyway. If they suck it up enough now (possible) they can keep their pick. Next season will be the big one for the Warriors.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13537 Posts
March 14 2012 04:49 GMT
#4698
Holy shit, Mayo. 25 shots for 14 points. Wow.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
March 14 2012 04:50 GMT
#4699
On March 14 2012 13:40 Riskr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2012 11:52 Ace wrote:
In the finals when Dallas played Zone vs Miami, Miami gave the ball to Wade and he went right to the hoop every time.

Later on, Dallas zoned up on the opposite side of the court and tried to trap Wade when Miami adjusted. He would immediately split the double team on a dribble handoff and go right to the hoop.

This season, Indiana tried to play zone vs Miami a few weeks ago. Miami killed it. With 1 elite slasher (the major weakness of Zone Defense), Mike Miller healthy and Mario Chalmers shooting over 40% for the season from 3 point range why would teams keep zoning up vs Miami? Early this year there were articles about Miami playing badly vs Zone in the finals and look! - no one talks about it anymore because it just doesn't work on them.

I mean just step back for a second here: If the prevailing sentiment is that Miami struggles vs Zone Defense then obviously they would be seeing it every single game all season long. We are assuming most NBA coaches would go for any advantage they can vs Miami correct? Why would Miami only see zone in the playoffs and not now when teams are going to still want to win games?


So again, 2 things..

First, I agree that a brilliant slasher is the best way to crack a zone. But the zone makes it harder for the guy to get to the rim. That's the point of the zone. Someone like Dwyane Wade is great because he doesn't stop trying to penetrate and he is a good enough of a passer to get the ball to someone. And so far, Mike Miller, Lebron James, Mario Chalmers and James Jones are all hitting over 40% on 3s I think. So things look good or at least, gooder, that I can agree with.

But secondly, Miami has clearly struggled against the zone. I don't think this is a truism in any sense. I think Atlanta dropped a zone in Janurary? The offense is just more stagnant. As for why it isn't used, I suspect it's just that the zone isn't really a sustainable plan, so coaches don't coach it regularly, especially in this season, where teams don't practice.

Anyways, it's not like I have any empirical evidence or hours of tape. I just think, from everything I've seen, Miami has performed poorly when they see zone.

You underestimate the Mavs D last year,they switched to Zone in the right moments,and you can´t deny that the matrix is the best wing defender in league.name a better one,really?!
Hell he even shut down Kobe!
Deshawn is also one of the best at that position.
Overall i can´t state enough that the Mavs D last year was impeccable.

are you serious? I'd take allen, deng, lebron, and moute over marion x.x and all of them have a better looking j.
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
Ducci
Profile Joined April 2009
United States588 Posts
March 14 2012 04:52 GMT
#4700
Bogut for Monta is a great trade for the warriors. The warriors weren't going anywhere with monta as their best player and they needed to break up the steph/monta combo. As much as I loved monta, he needed to go if the team was to progress.

On the other hand, giving up udoh, who in my opinion, will be an excellent defender and backup big similiar to collison, for jackson is a terrible part of the trade. Jackson's + biedrins contract is going to suck for the next 3 year.

It is tough to see monta go. He has always been so fun to watch
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