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On February 11 2012 17:39 Ace wrote:
If a PG is killing your defense with dribble penetration your bigs won't be able to do much anyway. The best way to stop that is by getting solid guard and small forwards to defend it. It's a huge misconception, especially in today's NBA but the best way to stop penetration isn't with your bigs unless it's someone mobile like Garnett, Bosh, Aldridge or Howard.
Also, Kobe guarded Lin in that 4th quarter late in the game. Kobe tried to pressure him, jumped early to cut off his right side and Lin just blew past him. He was carving up the entire team sans Barnes who got hit with some dumb foul calls.
You mean after Barnes fouled out right?
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On February 11 2012 18:07 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
It's sad to see that people are STILL trying to downplay Lin's game. Trying to say that "oh, Laker's point guard D is pretty bad". EVEN SO, JLIN SCORED 38! I don't care who you are and who you're playing against in the NBA, scoring 38 regardless is freaking impressive.
Do I expect him to keep up this torrid place? No. But I very well expect him to perform extremely well. Only time will tell how Melo and Amare will play with him. He reminds me of a raw version of Steve Nash but more athletic, so I think he'll work with Amare just fine, but with Melo, it could be worrisome as Melo loves to play isolation.
I'm not trying to downplay anything. The kid ripped us apart.
What I'm trying to upplay is just how indicative Lin's game was tonight of the Lakers depth and back court issues that others try and downplay.
Frankly, after all the times that Kobe has gone off and done something ridiculous at MSG I think it's only fair that SOMEONE from the Knicks pay us back. I'm happy for him just annoyed with the Laker issues that have been so blatantly obvious this road trip.
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MURICA15980 Posts
For me it's not his numbers. There are a ton of superstars in the NBA who have put up similar numbers for a similar stretch at some point in a hot streak.
It is that he did this after waking up from a couch because he was expecting to get cut from the NBA for not being good enough.
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On February 11 2012 18:25 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 18:07 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
It's sad to see that people are STILL trying to downplay Lin's game. Trying to say that "oh, Laker's point guard D is pretty bad". EVEN SO, JLIN SCORED 38! I don't care who you are and who you're playing against in the NBA, scoring 38 regardless is freaking impressive.
Do I expect him to keep up this torrid place? No. But I very well expect him to perform extremely well. Only time will tell how Melo and Amare will play with him. He reminds me of a raw version of Steve Nash but more athletic, so I think he'll work with Amare just fine, but with Melo, it could be worrisome as Melo loves to play isolation. I'm not trying to downplay anything. The kid ripped us apart. What I'm trying to upplay is just how indicative Lin's game was tonight of the Lakers depth and back court issues that others try and downplay. Frankly, after all the times that Kobe has gone off and done something ridiculous at MSG I think it's only fair that SOMEONE from the Knicks pay us back. I'm happy for him just annoyed with the Laker issues that have been so blatantly obvious this road trip.
Dude who is trying to downplay the lakers depth and backcourt issues. They are 29th and 30th in the league, its a fact. can you show us some proof of who is trying to downplay that?
Here I will put this in there since you missed it a few pages back since it explains the only problem I have with your statements which aren't badly put together.
On February 11 2012 10:47 MassHysteria wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 04:07 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 11 2012 03:11 MassHysteria wrote:On February 10 2012 13:02 Vindicare605 wrote:
Yet another game where the team is being carried on the backs of Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum and Kobe Bryant.
Artest played great defense on Paul Pierce tonight so I'll omit him from my rant.
But WTF Mike Brown? Why did you give Steve Blake and Troy Murphy so many goddamn minutes tonight when you had two superior alternatives in Goudelock and McRoberts sitting on the bench.
His supposed reason for playing Murphy is that "he can make shots for us" BULLSHIT. Murphy finished tonight with ONE field goal made with at least 5 open looks from 3. He's a rebounder and defender and has been ONLY that all season. He can't pass, he can't run, he can't shoot, at least McRoberts can pass and run in addition to bringing insane work ethic and hustle every game.
Honestly; the Lakers were really lucky to win that game, and should be extremely thankful that Pau Bynum and Kobe are capable of carrying the entirety of the offensive load. They each played more than 40 minutes tonight. superior alternatives? cmon now lol. Goudelock is a rookie who does terrible when pressured on defense and is forced to decide on where to go with the ball. McRoberts is a hustle guy and that's it. He might be a fan favorite but don't think like a fanboy man. Murphy has been a double-double guy in his career when healthy and has been getting boards in limited minutes (9 last night) and can stretch the floor. Plus, Murphy is the type of player who can get hot and knock down some shots whereas McRoberts is not that type of player. I don't mean to nitpick but you are reminding me of all the other overreacting LA fans here. Blaming it on Mike Brown, when the Lakers rank 29th or 30th (dead-last) in the NBA in PG production, SF production, and points off the bench. Nothing Brown can really do about that by himself. When it was Phil Jackson doing all these weird rotations during the regular season, everyone just said " the zen-master is just getting them ready for the playoffs" and yet he had more options than now. The lakers playing 3 vs 5 on offense definitely has validity though. It just shows how weak everyone other than those 3 are right now. Rank dead last in SF and PG production when he isn't playing the guys that DO produce at those two positions. He isn't playing Barnes enough, and is playing Murphy WAY too much. When McRoberts, Goudelock and Barnes are in they produce. If nothing else they bring much needed ENERGY to the game, something the other guys he's been playing severely lack. I don't give a damn what Troy Murphy's career numbers have looked like. He's averaging a little more than 3 points a game with the Lakers and his rebounding ability is equal to McRoberts at best. You claim I'm thinking like a fanboy, while meanwhile you're using logic that only works if you're looking at career numbers and completely ignore what's already transpired this season. By your logic we should keep playing Kapono because obviously his shooting drought is bound to end at some point right? Lol Barnes has been in a slump for 3 weeks. They gave him the starting job and he lost it! Yesterdays game was the best one he has had in that span, and you are arguing to play him more? He actually showed hustle last night which is something he hadn't shown in a while. Plus everyone knows when its pressure-time and barnes gets the ball he just looks to pass the ball to Kobe like a son trying to please his father. I don't know what your standards of production are but I don't really see the production you speak of. Blake just came back from injury, they have to figure out what he has, and you want to start Goudeluck over him already? Goudeluck hasn't been that great or there would be no debate...Let the coach figure out what they have is all I am saying... And Murphy's career numbers were just something I threw in there in case you weren't aware, not what I based my opinion on so don't try to twist words. Did you read the rest of the paragraph? In any case, my point was completely missed it seems, or maybe I didn't do a good job explaining it. I am not trying to argue who should be playing over who because it is still too early in the season to be debating with certainty. I am just saying stop blaming everything on the coach and crying for McRoberts like he is the missing ingredient because that isn't even their 2nd worst position they are worried about. Give Mike Brown and the team more than a month and a half in a lockout-shortened season before taking out the pitchforks fuu... Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 09:42 jmbthirteen wrote:On February 11 2012 09:33 cLutZ wrote:
Who actually invented the notion that Brown is a good coach?
I've never seen it. I actually do think he is a good coach. Its a little too soon to bash him in LA. He didn't even have a real training camp with the Lakers. And he has that team playing defense, really good defense. He is still learning that roster and they are still trying to learn how to play without Lamar. Seriously, that trade was so dumb. Lamar would have gotten over it. He was the best creator on the team and now they don't have a good one really, well McRoberts is actually good at it, but not good enough for a ton of minutes. Exactly. I'll believe your previous post about McRoberts being better than Murphy and take it as true, but I definitely don't see him as a creator.
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On February 11 2012 18:07 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
It's sad to see that people are STILL trying to downplay Lin's game. Trying to say that "oh, Laker's point guard D is pretty bad". EVEN SO, JLIN SCORED 38! I don't care who you are and who you're playing against in the NBA, scoring 38 regardless is freaking impressive.
Do I expect him to keep up this torrid place? No. But I very well expect him to perform extremely well. Only time will tell how Melo and Amare will play with him. He reminds me of a raw version of Steve Nash but more athletic, so I think he'll work with Amare just fine, but with Melo, it could be worrisome as Melo loves to play isolation.
Melo playing isolation works when they don't have a serviceable PG doesn't it? I doubt D'Antoni will just let Melo ball hog and not incorporate Lin into the system. He's not that stupid.
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MURICA15980 Posts
If two weeks ago people told me that everybody was telling Melo to give the ball off to Lin, I'd have called you crazy.
This is crazy. Or should I say linsane. GEEZ.
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dantoni IS that stupid, or more accurately he has no control over his team. melo will do whatever he likes, and lin will start sucking cos he isn't good off the ball. book it
his future success is linked closely to the question of whether his shooting is legit iyam, it's possible he's ok since his college stats were decent (37% fromn 3, 75% from line last 2 years), but everything up until the last 4 games indicated that he's a pretty poor shooter in the nba, and eyetest would offer that he has a pretty slow and low release
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you dont have to be a knockdown shooter to be a good off the ball player
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ok, name some good off the ball pgs who aren't good shooters
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Jason Kidd and Allen Iverson easily fit the criteria. Being effective without the ball is a bigger thing than just being able to shoot. Slashers, post up guards, and premier cutters are all skills that make a player an excellent off the ball player.
Look at Kidd's play, especially early in his career. He was a high usage PG that even without the ball could get to the lane at will because he was smart taking sharp angles. Iverson was pretty much one of the best catch the ball on the wing off a curl and explode to the hoop scorers.
Look at Miami. Contrary to typical media stupidity, Lebron and Wade just dominate opposing teams in the half court because both of them are great cutters. Both of them post up much more than people notice (Lebron did last year but oh well). Wade is probably the greatest slasher in NBA history.
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On February 11 2012 21:33 Ace wrote:
Jason Kidd and Allen Iverson easily fit the criteria. Being effective without the ball is a bigger thing than just being able to shoot. Slashers, post up guards, and premier cutters are all skills that make a player an excellent off the ball player.
Look at Kidd's play, especially early in his career. He was a high usage PG that even without the ball could get to the lane at will because he was smart taking sharp angles. Iverson was pretty much one of the best catch the ball on the wing off a curl and explode to the hoop scorers.
Look at Miami. Contrary to typical media stupidity, Lebron and Wade just dominate opposing teams in the half court because both of them are great cutters. Both of them post up much more than people notice (Lebron did last year but oh well). Wade is probably the greatest slasher in NBA history.
Unfortunately Lin does not have the skillsets/athleticism of those players. I don't think there is a need to determine how good he will be in the coming future. Why not just sit back and watch?
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i have no idea what point you are trying to make, but neither of those examples are relevant to lin's potential as an off-ball player if we're assuming that he isn't a legitimate shooter. kidd and iverson are two of the most ball dominant players of the last 10 years and what lebron and wade can do is irrelevant when discussing anyone who is not an all-world athlete
ideally lin will continue to be allowed to initiate the offense with some pnr action. and who knows, maybe his shooting has improved to acceptable levels. but IF it hasn't AND his offensive role diminishes significantly it's gonna be a fast fall for lin
thinking about it more amare is probably creaming himself at the chance to actually get in some pnrs with a dude who will pass, so maybe lin will be allowed to continue his current role for a decent chunk of the knicks offence
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The Linsanity fever spread to TL.
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On February 11 2012 17:34 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
- Lin owned the Nets and Deron and people said it was one time just cuz the nets are so bad and he wont perform against .500 teams.
- Lin owned the Jazz and people said Al Jeffersons defense is bad and against a real shotblocker Lin wont be able to drive.
- Lin owned the Wizards with John Wall + McGee the leading shot blocker in the league and people said he cant make the outside shot and cant finish with the left.
- Lin owned the Lakers driving past two legit 7-footers, making a couple of 3s and sinking a bunch of range twos.
Whats next? Right now I wouldnt be surprised if he made five Dunks driving to his left against the Heat :D
I'm aware that Lin wont keep this up forever and I'm not trying to hype his skills. But life is too short to be spoiling the fun all the time. Just enjoy the Lin ride as long as it lasts.
Yea this,
Im also not convinced about the longterm potential of the likes of Lin (or Rubio for that matter) but thats just because theyre hot kids in a shortened season. Theres no reason to enjoy the fact that hes doing well and give credit where its due though. Kids playing well you have to admit that. The lakers were garbage on offense more so anyway thats where they need to tidy up a whole lot. Sub 90 point games with Kobe making the shots he does is absolutely garbage. Or well the backcourt in general is just absolute garbage.
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On February 11 2012 21:52 x2fst wrote:
i have no idea what point you are trying to make, but neither of those examples are relevant to lin's potential as an off-ball player if we're assuming that he isn't a legitimate shooter. kidd and iverson are two of the most ball dominant players of the last 10 years and what lebron and wade can do is irrelevant when discussing anyone who is not an all-world athlete
ideally lin will continue to be allowed to initiate the offense with some pnr action. and who knows, maybe his shooting has improved to acceptable levels. but IF it hasn't AND his offensive role diminishes significantly it's gonna be a fast fall for lin
thinking about it more amare is probably creaming himself at the chance to actually get in some pnrs with a dude who will pass, so maybe lin will be allowed to continue his current role for a decent chunk of the knicks offence
Didn't you just say Lin wouldn't be good off the ball? Then asked for PGs who weren't good shooters but could play off the ball?
Wade and Lebron don't dominate off the ball because of athletism. It's a lot more about positioning and smarts when making cuts to create angles where a defender gets pinned to your off hand, making it damn near impossible to do anything defensively.
On February 11 2012 21:42 ItsMeDomLee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 21:33 Ace wrote:
Jason Kidd and Allen Iverson easily fit the criteria. Being effective without the ball is a bigger thing than just being able to shoot. Slashers, post up guards, and premier cutters are all skills that make a player an excellent off the ball player.
Look at Kidd's play, especially early in his career. He was a high usage PG that even without the ball could get to the lane at will because he was smart taking sharp angles. Iverson was pretty much one of the best catch the ball on the wing off a curl and explode to the hoop scorers.
Look at Miami. Contrary to typical media stupidity, Lebron and Wade just dominate opposing teams in the half court because both of them are great cutters. Both of them post up much more than people notice (Lebron did last year but oh well). Wade is probably the greatest slasher in NBA history.
Unfortunately Lin does not have the skillsets/athleticism of those players. I don't think there is a need to determine how good he will be in the coming future. Why not just sit back and watch?
I'm not trying to determine anything about Lin. Just clearing up a misconception about what it takes to be an off the ball player.
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On February 11 2012 21:42 ItsMeDomLee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 21:33 Ace wrote:
Jason Kidd and Allen Iverson easily fit the criteria. Being effective without the ball is a bigger thing than just being able to shoot. Slashers, post up guards, and premier cutters are all skills that make a player an excellent off the ball player.
Look at Kidd's play, especially early in his career. He was a high usage PG that even without the ball could get to the lane at will because he was smart taking sharp angles. Iverson was pretty much one of the best catch the ball on the wing off a curl and explode to the hoop scorers.
Look at Miami. Contrary to typical media stupidity, Lebron and Wade just dominate opposing teams in the half court because both of them are great cutters. Both of them post up much more than people notice (Lebron did last year but oh well). Wade is probably the greatest slasher in NBA history.
Unfortunately Lin does not have the skillsets/athleticism of those players. I don't think there is a need to determine how good he will be in the coming future. Why not just sit back and watch?
Because people are Linsane. 
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Looking forward to Lin exposing Rubio tonight. Man, the atmosphere at the Garden last night was sick!!!!
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who care about knicks in the end D-Rose 'll give us(Bulls) a NBA champion
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I really only watch basketball if there is nothing else on, so i have no idea how good Lin actually is, but last night was the first time I actually watched a whole knicks game in ages. That shit was awesome. It's pretty impossible to root against someone like that.
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On a somewhat related note to the Linsanity; prior to the game last night his twitter account had 74k followers (approx)
.. now he has 150k :D
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EPT
