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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On September 21 2014 02:39 Nimix wrote: Just checked and I don't, dunno how to get one to give away  That's fine, I just checked my paypal and I have 10 dollars I didn't know existed in there  . | ||
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Bacillus
Finland2048 Posts
On September 21 2014 03:09 iv~nk~j wrote: can you name some fps game that uses merely 30 tick? because iirc some of the battlefield games do and everyone knows how horrible and inconsistent feeling the actual infantry vs infantry gunplay is in those games, the fun comes from messing with the vehicles and the huge maps also the shooting mechanics in these sort of games tend to be much simpler, cs has intricate recoil patterns and a lot of advanced mechanics like shoulder peeking etc. which make an as accurate as possible representation of the game state more important than in more "casual" shooters one thing that anyone should be able to recognise easily between 64/128 tick is how bunnyhopping works, personally i can also very easily tell it when spraying with rifles. it's hard to put it into words, it just simply feels more "fluid". I'm not sure about real competitive FPSes (Thought TF2 was 30, turns out its locked 66), but for example L4D runs at 30. Once again, not ideal stuff by any means, but kind of holds together even with stuff flying around. Quakes use interpolation differently, which probably reduces the need for high tickrates. And I do relate to the 'more fluid' feel. I used to play Natural Selection with original GoldScr and there were loads of little things in the feel of air curve and firing mechanics on some servers. Playing on a good server felt amazing. --- As for interpolation in general, it's supposed to be the ADDADADADADA strafe movement that breaks the predictive hitcode in a nasty way. Yet CS GO seems to have a lot of problems even with relatively predictable movement like jumping players and players running to a consistent direction. Probably there's some logical reason how it all works with increased ticks, but it doesn't make sense to me intuitively how the 64 tick server handles things so bad sometimes. As mentioned here, grens also feel different with higher ticks somehow. I'd like to think they are pretty predictable objects apart from player collisions and yet at 16 tick replay they were completely bonkers. I guess not everything gets calculated each tick or something, but it still seems really weird how stuff works there. | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
hehehehe | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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NihiLStarcraft
Denmark1413 Posts
I study CS and am working on multiplayer games myself so I kinda can't tell anymore what's common knowledge for people and what isn't. If what I say here is something everybody knows already then please excuse me for the repetition, I don't want to come across as a smartass. :p So getting a fast action-based multiplayer game to work across the internet is always super mega tricky for the simple fact that the internet is, in reality, too slow for what human reflexes can do. Say you have a ping of 70 (which is a good average, I personally have a good connection here in Germany which means I generally get ~20 ping but there's also people from other countries further away from the Valve servers with much higher ping). That means it takes data 70ms to travel from your game (client) to the server. If you see someone else on your screen, let's assume they also have a 70 ping, it takes 70ms for their input to reach the server and then the server forwards their movement and actions to you which is another 70ms. That's 140ms. Of course, all clients (you and your opponent) as well as the server, are just computers and they aren't infinitely fast either. A server running at 64 tick 'updates' the game 64 times a second. This creates a 'window', jitter in other words. Say you hit the fire button to shoot at someone, your PC probably doesn't take very long to send out that info to the server, so let's ignore possible lag there, but it will take 70ms to reach the server. But it will only affect the state of the game whenever that server reaches its nearest tick. It's (pseudo-)random. Sometimes your info will hit right before the server 'ticks' and it'll be great, sometimes it's the worst case where your data hits the server just as it updated and now it's in a queue waiting to be applied to the actual game. For a 64 tick server, the worst case is another ~16ms if you're unlucky. If we switch perspective to the opponent that you were shooting at, he can only see the shot when the data arrives at his computer. So that's the total of 86 plus the 70 ping of the opponent, since it still takes a bit of time for your PC to handle the new data and render a new frame to the screen we can safely assume 160ms of delay there. 160ms is not responsive whatsoever in a game that's as fast as CSGO. As you can probably assume, 120 ticks doesn't change the situation that much for people with average-bad ping. The better the ping, the more higher server tick rate helps. But the point is, raw data transfer over the internet like that is just way slow and not suitable for fast gameplay. So 90% of the work that the programmers for these games do in the multiplayer department is to implement hacks that make the game feel better than what it really is, this is where client-side interpolation and prediction comes in, which are more complicated ways of faking less latency than there really is. So with interp, if you want to move forward by hitting W it's unacceptable to have there always be a delay of up to one tenth of a second or more before your player actually starts moving, that feels absolutely horrible, so the client will just move itself directly rightaway. If the server then later says that you couldn't have gone there because something else happened that you as a client didn't know about at the time (or because you're hacking lol), then it'll overwrite the local client position with whatever the server sent you (in fact it will blend over from your current position into the actual one). This is what creates rubber-banding and warping when there are connection problems. Aaaanyways, not quite sure why I decided to write that up, and again I hope that I didn't make myself look stupid because it's the most obvious thing ever. If so, please ignore. Maybe there are people out there, however, who don't know what ping is or how a client-server game roughly works. Also note that there's no way to confirm the specifics of how it all actually works, this is mostly my general knowledge of netcoding in combination with what I can safely assume to be the case with CSGO. But latency isn't the only issue with CSGO's gunplay. It's a complicated topic with a lot of contributing areas where there could be improvements. That was just the basics of latency under the assumption that everything else works. But servers can hiccup (even 128 tick) and there's more issues, such as paket loss. Or take hitboxes for example. They are obviously misplaced in certain animation clips, everybody knows/sees it when Ts plant the bomb/CTs defuse. The visual model does not line up with the actual hitbox so hitting these semi-crouching players can be tricky. Jumping hitboxes also seem glitchy. Since I practice and warm-up against knive-only bots that rush you on aim_map, I even noticed a big hitbox issue when I look down on them from one of the balconies (and they are rushing up at me on the ramp). I will miss hits that are on their visual model heads and then get headshots that are completely offset. Maybe I should capture these on video because, contrary to the latency issues which are simply a limitation of technology, these hitbox misalignments are not. This is on a local vs bots 128 tick game with 300-400 fps and <0.6ms var so there shouldn't be any instability from lag. They're just lazy and badly tested as far as I can tell and, in extreme cases, gamebreaking. | ||
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sharkeyanti
United States1273 Posts
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
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SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
On September 21 2014 11:28 amazingxkcd wrote: Started playing esea pugs, pretty good if you don't fuck up your plays and calls Making calls off sound is one of the hardest things for me. I am not sure why, I have been playing CS since 2002 and I still mishear things constantly. Anyone know a way to just understand the sound in the game better. Side note I have noticed that when I play ESEA or Cevo way more elitist jerks. What do you guys think? | ||
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
On September 21 2014 15:10 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: Making calls off sound is one of the hardest things for me. I am not sure why, I have been playing CS since 2002 and I still mishear things constantly. Anyone know a way to just understand the sound in the game better. Side note I have noticed that when I play ESEA or Cevo way more elitist jerks. What do you guys think? what kind of headset do you have? and yes, there are a lot of elitest jerks in the ESEA community. | ||
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NihiLStarcraft
Denmark1413 Posts
Looks like I was right, when the bots are on the ramp at an angle, the hitboxes are WAY off (over their heads). Any opinions? | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
The heads are much harder to hit from behind and from certain other angles like the ones you show too.. Pretty annoying. | ||
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NihiLStarcraft
Denmark1413 Posts
Sucked up and created a profile on reddit to post this to r/GlobalOffensive just now, maybe it'll cause some discussion and maybe maybe even catch the attention of the devs to finally fix the goddamn hitboxes. I mean it's just about the most important mechanic in CSGO so I really don't understand how they even got away ignoring it for so long. | ||
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Nimix
France1809 Posts
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NihiLStarcraft
Denmark1413 Posts
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RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
On September 21 2014 15:10 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: Making calls off sound is one of the hardest things for me. I am not sure why, I have been playing CS since 2002 and I still mishear things constantly. Anyone know a way to just understand the sound in the game better. Side note I have noticed that when I play ESEA or Cevo way more elitist jerks. What do you guys think? Are you sure u have your windows settings on headphone and not speakers? I believe this helps with directional sound. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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sharkeyanti
United States1273 Posts
On September 21 2014 23:02 ahswtini wrote: So I created a shortcut to csgo on my desktop via Steam, but I want to use custom launch parameters just for that shortcut. Is it possible? Have you used CFF Explorer? It can do that. | ||
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Varanice
United States1517 Posts
On September 21 2014 22:43 RaGe wrote: Are you sure u have your windows settings on headphone and not speakers? I believe this helps with directional sound. I haven't even heard of this setting, where can I find it in win8? | ||
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Psychonian
United States2322 Posts
So I call him an asshole, to which he says "You know i've always been called that, always loved that name." Fast forward to next round start. Match point. He starts shooting me with his glock so i turn around and headshot him with my AK. "You have been kicked and banned for killing teammates at round start." GG valve, GG | ||
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Sableyeah
Netherlands2119 Posts
Off topic from the serious hitboxes discussion but Pasha best streamer :D I watched his games with n0thing, apeX, summit and olof live but I decided to watch it again today because it was so funny. Before his stream I was betting, gooood stuff hehe. With todays added up, - 11 bets, 1 loss, 1 closed. Too bad my bet on NiP-Myxmg was too low, 3.50... xD Didnt get anything. So silly that Im actually risking for nothing. | ||
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