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On February 27 2013 18:25 RuskiPanda wrote:If anyone has some spare HC currency but mains Default I'm looking to unload some decent armor and leveled skill gems (mostly quality) at a 1:5 rate (or less if you're feeling generous) at + Show Spoiler [shop] +
is 1 gcp 2 chaos enough for the chest? that would be 1exalt 10 chaos
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On February 28 2013 07:11 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 21:50 Tyrran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:18 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 Pwere wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Evasion is at least on par with armor without unwavering stance.. which was my point.. Armor is bad, but it's better than nothing, which is what you get with unwavering stance without IR or pure Armor gear (which btw hits values on par with evasion now. Lots of people aren't aware of that buff a few patches ago).
The post I was answering to specifically said that he was using Ghost Reaver, implying he could use the eye of Chayula, in which case ES/Evasion + Arrow dodge hybrid is viable and actually better than wasting points to grab IR, unless he deals physical damage, in which case, IR is required.
@Obstikal, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion... you're not using evasion, and you're using unwavering stance. Nothing I said applies to you, aside from the formula to know your real damage reduction. Hint: Much lower than 74% vs hard hits.
Context... Evasion and Armor are both pretty bad. Without a solid investment, evasion is usually better than armor. Pure armor beats the hell out of pure evasion, that's a given, even before endurance charges. But as a 2nd defense, evasion is fine, as long as you don't waste points on evasion passives. Grab more life instead. tl;dr People hear that evasion is crap everywhere, and think simply converting it to armor will solve their problems. But that's far from the truth. You grab too much life to compensate for the randomness of evasion, and gimp yourself in other ways such as lack of keystones. Armor is very point efficient, especially IR/Unwavering Stance builds. It lets you get free armor through Grace+Evasion Gear. Evasion is not random, and armor gets less and less useful the harder the enemy hits. Just saying. Rigth now i dont see any better defense than a mix of both armor and evasion/block and a lot of endurance charges. The fix dmg reduction does A LOT against hard hitting bosses. As much life as possible is mandatory too of course. Evasion IS random, it is chance to evade against certain attacks. It only averages out against large number of incoming attacks, but against strong big hits evasion is random as fuck. Evasion/Block are garbage defensive nodes. Taking Evasion at all means you get stunned, which means you get mobbed on and die. Lack of stun immunity is a big problem, and alot of HC players take IR/Unwavering Stance because it is incredibly point efficient (break 6k armor point without having to go through too much) all while granting stun immunity. Evasion is, and always will be a bad defensive mechanic because of the lack of stun immunity.
It seems you dont understand how the evasion mechanics work. There is nothing random about it. With 50 percent evasion every other attack will be dodged.
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Canada8033 Posts
There is, in theory, an element of randomness to evasion. If you have a boss surrounded by mobs, there is a chance that your entropy will be depleted by the mobs, allowing the boss to successfully hit you. In the end, the chance of this happening multiple times in a row is pretty slim, and is likely balanced out by any crits you evade (crits that hit you can be "evaded" to downgrade them to a normal attack).
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On February 28 2013 07:36 Marradron wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 07:11 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:50 Tyrran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:18 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 Pwere wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Evasion is at least on par with armor without unwavering stance.. which was my point.. Armor is bad, but it's better than nothing, which is what you get with unwavering stance without IR or pure Armor gear (which btw hits values on par with evasion now. Lots of people aren't aware of that buff a few patches ago).
The post I was answering to specifically said that he was using Ghost Reaver, implying he could use the eye of Chayula, in which case ES/Evasion + Arrow dodge hybrid is viable and actually better than wasting points to grab IR, unless he deals physical damage, in which case, IR is required.
@Obstikal, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion... you're not using evasion, and you're using unwavering stance. Nothing I said applies to you, aside from the formula to know your real damage reduction. Hint: Much lower than 74% vs hard hits.
Context... Evasion and Armor are both pretty bad. Without a solid investment, evasion is usually better than armor. Pure armor beats the hell out of pure evasion, that's a given, even before endurance charges. But as a 2nd defense, evasion is fine, as long as you don't waste points on evasion passives. Grab more life instead. tl;dr People hear that evasion is crap everywhere, and think simply converting it to armor will solve their problems. But that's far from the truth. You grab too much life to compensate for the randomness of evasion, and gimp yourself in other ways such as lack of keystones. Armor is very point efficient, especially IR/Unwavering Stance builds. It lets you get free armor through Grace+Evasion Gear. Evasion is not random, and armor gets less and less useful the harder the enemy hits. Just saying. Rigth now i dont see any better defense than a mix of both armor and evasion/block and a lot of endurance charges. The fix dmg reduction does A LOT against hard hitting bosses. As much life as possible is mandatory too of course. Evasion IS random, it is chance to evade against certain attacks. It only averages out against large number of incoming attacks, but against strong big hits evasion is random as fuck. Evasion/Block are garbage defensive nodes. Taking Evasion at all means you get stunned, which means you get mobbed on and die. Lack of stun immunity is a big problem, and alot of HC players take IR/Unwavering Stance because it is incredibly point efficient (break 6k armor point without having to go through too much) all while granting stun immunity. Evasion is, and always will be a bad defensive mechanic because of the lack of stun immunity. It seems you dont understand how the evasion mechanics work. There is nothing random about it. With 50 percent evasion every other attack will be dodged.
You know you can flip a coin and get 50 heads in a row, right? Same way a boss can hit you 5 times in a row with 50% evasion and kill you dead. It is random, and only averages out in large numbers, as stated above.
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On February 28 2013 07:27 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 18:25 RuskiPanda wrote:If anyone has some spare HC currency but mains Default I'm looking to unload some decent armor and leveled skill gems (mostly quality) at a 1:5 rate (or less if you're feeling generous) at + Show Spoiler [shop] + is 1 gcp 2 chaos enough for the chest? that would be 1exalt 10 chaos
Yeah thats fine with me. I left ign on the thread, should be online most of today.
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Canada8033 Posts
On February 28 2013 07:51 shabby wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 07:36 Marradron wrote:On February 28 2013 07:11 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:50 Tyrran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:18 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 Pwere wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Evasion is at least on par with armor without unwavering stance.. which was my point.. Armor is bad, but it's better than nothing, which is what you get with unwavering stance without IR or pure Armor gear (which btw hits values on par with evasion now. Lots of people aren't aware of that buff a few patches ago).
The post I was answering to specifically said that he was using Ghost Reaver, implying he could use the eye of Chayula, in which case ES/Evasion + Arrow dodge hybrid is viable and actually better than wasting points to grab IR, unless he deals physical damage, in which case, IR is required.
@Obstikal, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion... you're not using evasion, and you're using unwavering stance. Nothing I said applies to you, aside from the formula to know your real damage reduction. Hint: Much lower than 74% vs hard hits.
Context... Evasion and Armor are both pretty bad. Without a solid investment, evasion is usually better than armor. Pure armor beats the hell out of pure evasion, that's a given, even before endurance charges. But as a 2nd defense, evasion is fine, as long as you don't waste points on evasion passives. Grab more life instead. tl;dr People hear that evasion is crap everywhere, and think simply converting it to armor will solve their problems. But that's far from the truth. You grab too much life to compensate for the randomness of evasion, and gimp yourself in other ways such as lack of keystones. Armor is very point efficient, especially IR/Unwavering Stance builds. It lets you get free armor through Grace+Evasion Gear. Evasion is not random, and armor gets less and less useful the harder the enemy hits. Just saying. Rigth now i dont see any better defense than a mix of both armor and evasion/block and a lot of endurance charges. The fix dmg reduction does A LOT against hard hitting bosses. As much life as possible is mandatory too of course. Evasion IS random, it is chance to evade against certain attacks. It only averages out against large number of incoming attacks, but against strong big hits evasion is random as fuck. Evasion/Block are garbage defensive nodes. Taking Evasion at all means you get stunned, which means you get mobbed on and die. Lack of stun immunity is a big problem, and alot of HC players take IR/Unwavering Stance because it is incredibly point efficient (break 6k armor point without having to go through too much) all while granting stun immunity. Evasion is, and always will be a bad defensive mechanic because of the lack of stun immunity. It seems you dont understand how the evasion mechanics work. There is nothing random about it. With 50 percent evasion every other attack will be dodged. You know you can flip a coin and get 50 heads in a row, right? Same way a boss can hit you 5 times in a row with 50% evasion and kill you dead. It is random, and only averages out in large numbers, as stated above.
By that logic though, there's a chance that a boss could crit your armor based character multiple times and kill them, bypassing most of your damage reduction in the process. 
Ultimately, as has been stated multiple times in this thread, armor and evasion is only reliable in conjunction with high HP.
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On February 28 2013 07:51 shabby wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 07:36 Marradron wrote:On February 28 2013 07:11 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:50 Tyrran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:18 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 Pwere wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Evasion is at least on par with armor without unwavering stance.. which was my point.. Armor is bad, but it's better than nothing, which is what you get with unwavering stance without IR or pure Armor gear (which btw hits values on par with evasion now. Lots of people aren't aware of that buff a few patches ago).
The post I was answering to specifically said that he was using Ghost Reaver, implying he could use the eye of Chayula, in which case ES/Evasion + Arrow dodge hybrid is viable and actually better than wasting points to grab IR, unless he deals physical damage, in which case, IR is required.
@Obstikal, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion... you're not using evasion, and you're using unwavering stance. Nothing I said applies to you, aside from the formula to know your real damage reduction. Hint: Much lower than 74% vs hard hits.
Context... Evasion and Armor are both pretty bad. Without a solid investment, evasion is usually better than armor. Pure armor beats the hell out of pure evasion, that's a given, even before endurance charges. But as a 2nd defense, evasion is fine, as long as you don't waste points on evasion passives. Grab more life instead. tl;dr People hear that evasion is crap everywhere, and think simply converting it to armor will solve their problems. But that's far from the truth. You grab too much life to compensate for the randomness of evasion, and gimp yourself in other ways such as lack of keystones. Armor is very point efficient, especially IR/Unwavering Stance builds. It lets you get free armor through Grace+Evasion Gear. Evasion is not random, and armor gets less and less useful the harder the enemy hits. Just saying. Rigth now i dont see any better defense than a mix of both armor and evasion/block and a lot of endurance charges. The fix dmg reduction does A LOT against hard hitting bosses. As much life as possible is mandatory too of course. Evasion IS random, it is chance to evade against certain attacks. It only averages out against large number of incoming attacks, but against strong big hits evasion is random as fuck. Evasion/Block are garbage defensive nodes. Taking Evasion at all means you get stunned, which means you get mobbed on and die. Lack of stun immunity is a big problem, and alot of HC players take IR/Unwavering Stance because it is incredibly point efficient (break 6k armor point without having to go through too much) all while granting stun immunity. Evasion is, and always will be a bad defensive mechanic because of the lack of stun immunity. It seems you dont understand how the evasion mechanics work. There is nothing random about it. With 50 percent evasion every other attack will be dodged. You know you can flip a coin and get 50 heads in a row, right? Same way a boss can hit you 5 times in a row with 50% evasion and kill you dead. It is random, and only averages out in large numbers, as stated above.
Except no. It has been stated multiple times there is evasion entropy that guarantees that you can't get hit 5 times in a row with 50% evasion.
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shabby you should try to educate on how evasion works its not possible to be hit 2 times in a row with 50% evasion . It works with entropy like you start at 50% a mob hits you which adds another 50% to your evasion so the next hit is a guarantee dodge and visa versa . If you wanna get into more detail read the mechanics thread http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/11707 . Being a little less pretentious might be something you should consider .
That said there is a bunch of skills which just ignore evasion entirely but thats what life is for .
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On February 28 2013 07:53 RuskiPanda wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 07:27 EchelonTee wrote:On February 27 2013 18:25 RuskiPanda wrote:If anyone has some spare HC currency but mains Default I'm looking to unload some decent armor and leveled skill gems (mostly quality) at a 1:5 rate (or less if you're feeling generous) at + Show Spoiler [shop] + is 1 gcp 2 chaos enough for the chest? that would be 1exalt 10 chaos Yeah thats fine with me. I left ign on the thread, should be online most of today.
nvm on chest, realized I'd really rather have a 5L. can I buy the reduced mana + quality faster proj for 3 chaos?
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On February 28 2013 07:36 Marradron wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 07:11 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:50 Tyrran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:18 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 Pwere wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Evasion is at least on par with armor without unwavering stance.. which was my point.. Armor is bad, but it's better than nothing, which is what you get with unwavering stance without IR or pure Armor gear (which btw hits values on par with evasion now. Lots of people aren't aware of that buff a few patches ago).
The post I was answering to specifically said that he was using Ghost Reaver, implying he could use the eye of Chayula, in which case ES/Evasion + Arrow dodge hybrid is viable and actually better than wasting points to grab IR, unless he deals physical damage, in which case, IR is required.
@Obstikal, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion... you're not using evasion, and you're using unwavering stance. Nothing I said applies to you, aside from the formula to know your real damage reduction. Hint: Much lower than 74% vs hard hits.
Context... Evasion and Armor are both pretty bad. Without a solid investment, evasion is usually better than armor. Pure armor beats the hell out of pure evasion, that's a given, even before endurance charges. But as a 2nd defense, evasion is fine, as long as you don't waste points on evasion passives. Grab more life instead. tl;dr People hear that evasion is crap everywhere, and think simply converting it to armor will solve their problems. But that's far from the truth. You grab too much life to compensate for the randomness of evasion, and gimp yourself in other ways such as lack of keystones. Armor is very point efficient, especially IR/Unwavering Stance builds. It lets you get free armor through Grace+Evasion Gear. Evasion is not random, and armor gets less and less useful the harder the enemy hits. Just saying. Rigth now i dont see any better defense than a mix of both armor and evasion/block and a lot of endurance charges. The fix dmg reduction does A LOT against hard hitting bosses. As much life as possible is mandatory too of course. Evasion IS random, it is chance to evade against certain attacks. It only averages out against large number of incoming attacks, but against strong big hits evasion is random as fuck. Evasion/Block are garbage defensive nodes. Taking Evasion at all means you get stunned, which means you get mobbed on and die. Lack of stun immunity is a big problem, and alot of HC players take IR/Unwavering Stance because it is incredibly point efficient (break 6k armor point without having to go through too much) all while granting stun immunity. Evasion is, and always will be a bad defensive mechanic because of the lack of stun immunity. It seems you dont understand how the evasion mechanics work. There is nothing random about it. With 50 percent evasion every other attack will be dodged.
1) Certain skills are not dodged by evasion.
2) The first hit of a big hit against evasion does more damage than it does when you have armor/endurance/granite flasks together. Yes you have a chance to evade that hit, but you're gonna get hit at some point, and you're gonna need a shit ton more life than you would than say the guy that pops his Granite Flask and has 30k+ armor.
3) You need significantly more life than you would with an armor build to survive. Like, significantly more. To the point where the life pool you need significantly gimps your ability to do anything else, and hurts your utility badly because you have to invest so much in life (which armor builds already put a ton into) that you're likely to be lacking in alot of keystones that an armor build would have.
On February 28 2013 07:59 Spazer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 07:51 shabby wrote:On February 28 2013 07:36 Marradron wrote:On February 28 2013 07:11 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:50 Tyrran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:18 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 Pwere wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Evasion is at least on par with armor without unwavering stance.. which was my point.. Armor is bad, but it's better than nothing, which is what you get with unwavering stance without IR or pure Armor gear (which btw hits values on par with evasion now. Lots of people aren't aware of that buff a few patches ago).
The post I was answering to specifically said that he was using Ghost Reaver, implying he could use the eye of Chayula, in which case ES/Evasion + Arrow dodge hybrid is viable and actually better than wasting points to grab IR, unless he deals physical damage, in which case, IR is required.
@Obstikal, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion... you're not using evasion, and you're using unwavering stance. Nothing I said applies to you, aside from the formula to know your real damage reduction. Hint: Much lower than 74% vs hard hits.
Context... Evasion and Armor are both pretty bad. Without a solid investment, evasion is usually better than armor. Pure armor beats the hell out of pure evasion, that's a given, even before endurance charges. But as a 2nd defense, evasion is fine, as long as you don't waste points on evasion passives. Grab more life instead. tl;dr People hear that evasion is crap everywhere, and think simply converting it to armor will solve their problems. But that's far from the truth. You grab too much life to compensate for the randomness of evasion, and gimp yourself in other ways such as lack of keystones. Armor is very point efficient, especially IR/Unwavering Stance builds. It lets you get free armor through Grace+Evasion Gear. Evasion is not random, and armor gets less and less useful the harder the enemy hits. Just saying. Rigth now i dont see any better defense than a mix of both armor and evasion/block and a lot of endurance charges. The fix dmg reduction does A LOT against hard hitting bosses. As much life as possible is mandatory too of course. Evasion IS random, it is chance to evade against certain attacks. It only averages out against large number of incoming attacks, but against strong big hits evasion is random as fuck. Evasion/Block are garbage defensive nodes. Taking Evasion at all means you get stunned, which means you get mobbed on and die. Lack of stun immunity is a big problem, and alot of HC players take IR/Unwavering Stance because it is incredibly point efficient (break 6k armor point without having to go through too much) all while granting stun immunity. Evasion is, and always will be a bad defensive mechanic because of the lack of stun immunity. It seems you dont understand how the evasion mechanics work. There is nothing random about it. With 50 percent evasion every other attack will be dodged. You know you can flip a coin and get 50 heads in a row, right? Same way a boss can hit you 5 times in a row with 50% evasion and kill you dead. It is random, and only averages out in large numbers, as stated above. By that logic though, there's a chance that a boss could crit your armor based character multiple times and kill them, bypassing most of your damage reduction in the process. Ultimately, as has been stated multiple times in this thread, armor and evasion is only reliable in conjunction with high HP.
You need less hp with an armor build than you need with an evasion build. Crit may do big damage to an armor build, but if a crit goes through against an evasion build you're dead period. You have a chance of surviving with enough armor/endurance charges + reduce cript multipler nodes in the Mara tree. No such thing for an Evasion build.
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On February 28 2013 08:16 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 07:53 RuskiPanda wrote:On February 28 2013 07:27 EchelonTee wrote:On February 27 2013 18:25 RuskiPanda wrote:If anyone has some spare HC currency but mains Default I'm looking to unload some decent armor and leveled skill gems (mostly quality) at a 1:5 rate (or less if you're feeling generous) at + Show Spoiler [shop] + is 1 gcp 2 chaos enough for the chest? that would be 1exalt 10 chaos Yeah thats fine with me. I left ign on the thread, should be online most of today. nvm on chest, realized I'd really rather have a 5L. can I buy the reduced mana + quality faster proj for 3 chaos?
Yah. I'll be in TL group 3.
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On February 28 2013 08:25 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 07:36 Marradron wrote:On February 28 2013 07:11 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:50 Tyrran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:18 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 Pwere wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Evasion is at least on par with armor without unwavering stance.. which was my point.. Armor is bad, but it's better than nothing, which is what you get with unwavering stance without IR or pure Armor gear (which btw hits values on par with evasion now. Lots of people aren't aware of that buff a few patches ago).
The post I was answering to specifically said that he was using Ghost Reaver, implying he could use the eye of Chayula, in which case ES/Evasion + Arrow dodge hybrid is viable and actually better than wasting points to grab IR, unless he deals physical damage, in which case, IR is required.
@Obstikal, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion... you're not using evasion, and you're using unwavering stance. Nothing I said applies to you, aside from the formula to know your real damage reduction. Hint: Much lower than 74% vs hard hits.
Context... Evasion and Armor are both pretty bad. Without a solid investment, evasion is usually better than armor. Pure armor beats the hell out of pure evasion, that's a given, even before endurance charges. But as a 2nd defense, evasion is fine, as long as you don't waste points on evasion passives. Grab more life instead. tl;dr People hear that evasion is crap everywhere, and think simply converting it to armor will solve their problems. But that's far from the truth. You grab too much life to compensate for the randomness of evasion, and gimp yourself in other ways such as lack of keystones. Armor is very point efficient, especially IR/Unwavering Stance builds. It lets you get free armor through Grace+Evasion Gear. Evasion is not random, and armor gets less and less useful the harder the enemy hits. Just saying. Rigth now i dont see any better defense than a mix of both armor and evasion/block and a lot of endurance charges. The fix dmg reduction does A LOT against hard hitting bosses. As much life as possible is mandatory too of course. Evasion IS random, it is chance to evade against certain attacks. It only averages out against large number of incoming attacks, but against strong big hits evasion is random as fuck. Evasion/Block are garbage defensive nodes. Taking Evasion at all means you get stunned, which means you get mobbed on and die. Lack of stun immunity is a big problem, and alot of HC players take IR/Unwavering Stance because it is incredibly point efficient (break 6k armor point without having to go through too much) all while granting stun immunity. Evasion is, and always will be a bad defensive mechanic because of the lack of stun immunity. It seems you dont understand how the evasion mechanics work. There is nothing random about it. With 50 percent evasion every other attack will be dodged. 1) Certain skills are not dodged by evasion. 2) The first hit of a big hit against evasion does more damage than it does when you have armor/endurance/granite flasks together. Yes you have a chance to evade that hit, but you're gonna get hit at some point, and you're gonna need a shit ton more life than you would than say the guy that pops his Granite Flask and has 30k+ armor. 3) You need significantly more life than you would with an armor build to survive. Like, significantly more. To the point where the life pool you need significantly gimps your ability to do anything else, and hurts your utility badly because you have to invest so much in life (which armor builds already put a ton into) that you're likely to be lacking in alot of keystones that an armor build would have. Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 07:59 Spazer wrote:On February 28 2013 07:51 shabby wrote:On February 28 2013 07:36 Marradron wrote:On February 28 2013 07:11 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:50 Tyrran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:18 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 Pwere wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Evasion is at least on par with armor without unwavering stance.. which was my point.. Armor is bad, but it's better than nothing, which is what you get with unwavering stance without IR or pure Armor gear (which btw hits values on par with evasion now. Lots of people aren't aware of that buff a few patches ago).
The post I was answering to specifically said that he was using Ghost Reaver, implying he could use the eye of Chayula, in which case ES/Evasion + Arrow dodge hybrid is viable and actually better than wasting points to grab IR, unless he deals physical damage, in which case, IR is required.
@Obstikal, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion... you're not using evasion, and you're using unwavering stance. Nothing I said applies to you, aside from the formula to know your real damage reduction. Hint: Much lower than 74% vs hard hits.
Context... Evasion and Armor are both pretty bad. Without a solid investment, evasion is usually better than armor. Pure armor beats the hell out of pure evasion, that's a given, even before endurance charges. But as a 2nd defense, evasion is fine, as long as you don't waste points on evasion passives. Grab more life instead. tl;dr People hear that evasion is crap everywhere, and think simply converting it to armor will solve their problems. But that's far from the truth. You grab too much life to compensate for the randomness of evasion, and gimp yourself in other ways such as lack of keystones. Armor is very point efficient, especially IR/Unwavering Stance builds. It lets you get free armor through Grace+Evasion Gear. Evasion is not random, and armor gets less and less useful the harder the enemy hits. Just saying. Rigth now i dont see any better defense than a mix of both armor and evasion/block and a lot of endurance charges. The fix dmg reduction does A LOT against hard hitting bosses. As much life as possible is mandatory too of course. Evasion IS random, it is chance to evade against certain attacks. It only averages out against large number of incoming attacks, but against strong big hits evasion is random as fuck. Evasion/Block are garbage defensive nodes. Taking Evasion at all means you get stunned, which means you get mobbed on and die. Lack of stun immunity is a big problem, and alot of HC players take IR/Unwavering Stance because it is incredibly point efficient (break 6k armor point without having to go through too much) all while granting stun immunity. Evasion is, and always will be a bad defensive mechanic because of the lack of stun immunity. It seems you dont understand how the evasion mechanics work. There is nothing random about it. With 50 percent evasion every other attack will be dodged. You know you can flip a coin and get 50 heads in a row, right? Same way a boss can hit you 5 times in a row with 50% evasion and kill you dead. It is random, and only averages out in large numbers, as stated above. By that logic though, there's a chance that a boss could crit your armor based character multiple times and kill them, bypassing most of your damage reduction in the process. Ultimately, as has been stated multiple times in this thread, armor and evasion is only reliable in conjunction with high HP. You need less hp with an armor build than you need with an evasion build. Crit may do big damage to an armor build, but if a crit goes through against an evasion build you're dead period. You have a chance of surviving with enough armor/endurance charges + reduce cript multipler nodes in the Mara tree. No such thing for an Evasion build.
A lot of this is only true on very, very small time scales - the space of 1-2 hits at most. If you're talking about being killed by a single hit, then yes, evasion is obviously at a disadvantage compared to armor. However, it's a much, much smaller disadvantage than you'd think, given how armor falls off in effectiveness as hits become larger and larger. If something is going to do your entire life pool in a single swing, assuming you actually have an appropriate life total, which is to say you have a decent amount on gear, and have invested some passives in it, then chances are that the hit is so large that your armor reduction vs it will be quite low, for instance, even it was only doing exactly your health pool (no more), you'd need 12 times that amount to reduce it by 50%. Even in your exaggerated example, someone with 30k armor reduces any hit over 2.5k by less than 50%. If you've got 30k armor, then sure you can take a 5k swing and live with just over 2.5k life, but what are you doing with 30k armor and 2.5k life?
If we're talking about dying in any more than a single hit, you really want to back down off of the discussion of large hits, because evasion is going to outperform armor point for point by a wide margin. The kind of armor you'd need to reduce a hit, say for 80% of your life total, by 50% is absolutely astounding, and with the same amount of evasion you'll probably be avoiding at least 2 out of every 3, if not more. Then consider taking 3 of these hits - the evasion character eats the full 80% to the face, and avoids the other two. In the mean time, the armor character takes 40%x3 = 120% of his life. In other words, over any time scale more than a single hit, the evasion character is going to take less (or at worst, the same) damage than the armor character.
Of course, there are other things to consider like shield block, the evasion of the armor character, the armor of the evasion character and the like, but I'd say its fair to count these things as a wash, assuming that the characters are equally geared.
Naturally, when you start talking about dying to many smaller melees over time, armor comes out on top. And there will be a point at which the two are in fact giving equal amounts of reduction - armor is reducing each hit by a certain amount and evasion is preventing the same proportion of hits, such that over time (and to be clear, we're not speaking of minutes, we're speaking of the space of around 10 melees, depending on the actual evasion level) both will take the same amount of damage. If raw hits are larger, evasion will win until the point where you're dying in a single hit, smaller (raw) hits, and armor wins.
There's no philosophy here, because of the non-random way in which evasion is calculated, it's very simple to compare the two, and very easy to decide which is going to mitigate more damage at a given level of raw white-swing damage.
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On February 28 2013 09:27 eluv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 08:25 superstartran wrote:On February 28 2013 07:36 Marradron wrote:On February 28 2013 07:11 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:50 Tyrran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:18 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 Pwere wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Evasion is at least on par with armor without unwavering stance.. which was my point.. Armor is bad, but it's better than nothing, which is what you get with unwavering stance without IR or pure Armor gear (which btw hits values on par with evasion now. Lots of people aren't aware of that buff a few patches ago).
The post I was answering to specifically said that he was using Ghost Reaver, implying he could use the eye of Chayula, in which case ES/Evasion + Arrow dodge hybrid is viable and actually better than wasting points to grab IR, unless he deals physical damage, in which case, IR is required.
@Obstikal, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion... you're not using evasion, and you're using unwavering stance. Nothing I said applies to you, aside from the formula to know your real damage reduction. Hint: Much lower than 74% vs hard hits.
Context... Evasion and Armor are both pretty bad. Without a solid investment, evasion is usually better than armor. Pure armor beats the hell out of pure evasion, that's a given, even before endurance charges. But as a 2nd defense, evasion is fine, as long as you don't waste points on evasion passives. Grab more life instead. tl;dr People hear that evasion is crap everywhere, and think simply converting it to armor will solve their problems. But that's far from the truth. You grab too much life to compensate for the randomness of evasion, and gimp yourself in other ways such as lack of keystones. Armor is very point efficient, especially IR/Unwavering Stance builds. It lets you get free armor through Grace+Evasion Gear. Evasion is not random, and armor gets less and less useful the harder the enemy hits. Just saying. Rigth now i dont see any better defense than a mix of both armor and evasion/block and a lot of endurance charges. The fix dmg reduction does A LOT against hard hitting bosses. As much life as possible is mandatory too of course. Evasion IS random, it is chance to evade against certain attacks. It only averages out against large number of incoming attacks, but against strong big hits evasion is random as fuck. Evasion/Block are garbage defensive nodes. Taking Evasion at all means you get stunned, which means you get mobbed on and die. Lack of stun immunity is a big problem, and alot of HC players take IR/Unwavering Stance because it is incredibly point efficient (break 6k armor point without having to go through too much) all while granting stun immunity. Evasion is, and always will be a bad defensive mechanic because of the lack of stun immunity. It seems you dont understand how the evasion mechanics work. There is nothing random about it. With 50 percent evasion every other attack will be dodged. 1) Certain skills are not dodged by evasion. 2) The first hit of a big hit against evasion does more damage than it does when you have armor/endurance/granite flasks together. Yes you have a chance to evade that hit, but you're gonna get hit at some point, and you're gonna need a shit ton more life than you would than say the guy that pops his Granite Flask and has 30k+ armor. 3) You need significantly more life than you would with an armor build to survive. Like, significantly more. To the point where the life pool you need significantly gimps your ability to do anything else, and hurts your utility badly because you have to invest so much in life (which armor builds already put a ton into) that you're likely to be lacking in alot of keystones that an armor build would have. On February 28 2013 07:59 Spazer wrote:On February 28 2013 07:51 shabby wrote:On February 28 2013 07:36 Marradron wrote:On February 28 2013 07:11 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:50 Tyrran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:18 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 Pwere wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Evasion is at least on par with armor without unwavering stance.. which was my point.. Armor is bad, but it's better than nothing, which is what you get with unwavering stance without IR or pure Armor gear (which btw hits values on par with evasion now. Lots of people aren't aware of that buff a few patches ago).
The post I was answering to specifically said that he was using Ghost Reaver, implying he could use the eye of Chayula, in which case ES/Evasion + Arrow dodge hybrid is viable and actually better than wasting points to grab IR, unless he deals physical damage, in which case, IR is required.
@Obstikal, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion... you're not using evasion, and you're using unwavering stance. Nothing I said applies to you, aside from the formula to know your real damage reduction. Hint: Much lower than 74% vs hard hits.
Context... Evasion and Armor are both pretty bad. Without a solid investment, evasion is usually better than armor. Pure armor beats the hell out of pure evasion, that's a given, even before endurance charges. But as a 2nd defense, evasion is fine, as long as you don't waste points on evasion passives. Grab more life instead. tl;dr People hear that evasion is crap everywhere, and think simply converting it to armor will solve their problems. But that's far from the truth. You grab too much life to compensate for the randomness of evasion, and gimp yourself in other ways such as lack of keystones. Armor is very point efficient, especially IR/Unwavering Stance builds. It lets you get free armor through Grace+Evasion Gear. Evasion is not random, and armor gets less and less useful the harder the enemy hits. Just saying. Rigth now i dont see any better defense than a mix of both armor and evasion/block and a lot of endurance charges. The fix dmg reduction does A LOT against hard hitting bosses. As much life as possible is mandatory too of course. Evasion IS random, it is chance to evade against certain attacks. It only averages out against large number of incoming attacks, but against strong big hits evasion is random as fuck. Evasion/Block are garbage defensive nodes. Taking Evasion at all means you get stunned, which means you get mobbed on and die. Lack of stun immunity is a big problem, and alot of HC players take IR/Unwavering Stance because it is incredibly point efficient (break 6k armor point without having to go through too much) all while granting stun immunity. Evasion is, and always will be a bad defensive mechanic because of the lack of stun immunity. It seems you dont understand how the evasion mechanics work. There is nothing random about it. With 50 percent evasion every other attack will be dodged. You know you can flip a coin and get 50 heads in a row, right? Same way a boss can hit you 5 times in a row with 50% evasion and kill you dead. It is random, and only averages out in large numbers, as stated above. By that logic though, there's a chance that a boss could crit your armor based character multiple times and kill them, bypassing most of your damage reduction in the process. Ultimately, as has been stated multiple times in this thread, armor and evasion is only reliable in conjunction with high HP. You need less hp with an armor build than you need with an evasion build. Crit may do big damage to an armor build, but if a crit goes through against an evasion build you're dead period. You have a chance of surviving with enough armor/endurance charges + reduce cript multipler nodes in the Mara tree. No such thing for an Evasion build. A lot of this is only true on very, very small time scales - the space of 1-2 hits at most. If you're talking about being killed by a single hit, then yes, evasion is obviously at a disadvantage compared to armor. However, it's a much, much smaller disadvantage than you'd think, given how armor falls off in effectiveness as hits become larger and larger. If something is going to do your entire life pool in a single swing, assuming you actually have an appropriate life total, which is to say you have a decent amount on gear, and have invested some passives in it, then chances are that the hit is so large that your armor reduction vs it will be quite low, for instance, even it was only doing exactly your health pool (no more), you'd need 12 times that amount to reduce it by 50%. Even in your exaggerated example, someone with 30k armor reduces any hit over 2.5k by less than 50%. If you've got 30k armor, then sure you can take a 5k swing and live with just over 2.5k life, but what are you doing with 30k armor and 2.5k life? If we're talking about dying in any more than a single hit, you really want to back down off of the discussion of large hits, because evasion is going to outperform armor point for point by a wide margin. The kind of armor you'd need to reduce a hit, say for 80% of your life total, by 50% is absolutely astounding, and with the same amount of evasion you'll probably be avoiding at least 2 out of every 3, if not more. Then consider taking 3 of these hits - the evasion character eats the full 80% to the face, and avoids the other two. In the mean time, the armor character takes 40%x3 = 120% of his life. In other words, over any time scale more than a single hit, the evasion character is going to take less (or at worst, the same) damage than the armor character. Of course, there are other things to consider like shield block, the evasion of the armor character, the armor of the evasion character and the like, but I'd say its fair to count these things as a wash, assuming that the characters are equally geared. Naturally, when you start talking about dying to many smaller melees over time, armor comes out on top. And there will be a point at which the two are in fact giving equal amounts of reduction - armor is reducing each hit by a certain amount and evasion is preventing the same proportion of hits, such that over time (and to be clear, we're not speaking of minutes, we're speaking of the space of around 10 melees, depending on the actual evasion level) both will take the same amount of damage. If raw hits are larger, evasion will win until the point where you're dying in a single hit, smaller (raw) hits, and armor wins. There's no philosophy here, because of the non-random way in which evasion is calculated, it's very simple to compare the two, and very easy to decide which is going to mitigate more damage at a given level of raw white-swing damage.
Getting 5k hp + 30K armor is not difficult when everyone grabs Inner Force (which buffs Granite Flasks) and grabs all life passives anyways. You guys keep evaluating Evasion/Armor in a vacuum without taking into the fact that Armor takes less skill points to be as effective as Evasion (if not more effective). You pick up a handful of nodes to get ridiculous armor numbers, meanwhile Evasion with all its randomness, its ability to be stunned, along with the crazy amount of life you need, has to sacrifice some skill points to compensate. This means you're gonna be lacking some utility or damage either way.
TL;DR in a vacuum Evasion and Armor look equal until you look at the fact that Armor means you get to use str alot (which grants damage and health) and grants you access to nodes that you want anyways (the best life/survival nodes are on the str side of the tree).
There IS a reason why everyone goes armor if they are a life build in HC. If Evasion was legitimately as good or better than armor, everyone would be going that. However, that is clearly not the case.
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On February 28 2013 10:13 superstartran wrote:
There IS a reason why everyone goes armor if they are a life build in HC. If Evasion was legitimately as good or better than armor, everyone would be going that. However, that is clearly not the case.
Aside from the fact that this discussion comes back every 20 pages in this thread, this kind of argument is moot. Not everyone makes good choices and Evasion has traditionally bad reputation because it is usually pseudo-random. This is not the case here but people are still full of prejudices.
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On February 28 2013 10:13 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 09:27 eluv wrote:On February 28 2013 08:25 superstartran wrote:On February 28 2013 07:36 Marradron wrote:On February 28 2013 07:11 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:50 Tyrran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:18 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 Pwere wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Evasion is at least on par with armor without unwavering stance.. which was my point.. Armor is bad, but it's better than nothing, which is what you get with unwavering stance without IR or pure Armor gear (which btw hits values on par with evasion now. Lots of people aren't aware of that buff a few patches ago).
The post I was answering to specifically said that he was using Ghost Reaver, implying he could use the eye of Chayula, in which case ES/Evasion + Arrow dodge hybrid is viable and actually better than wasting points to grab IR, unless he deals physical damage, in which case, IR is required.
@Obstikal, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion... you're not using evasion, and you're using unwavering stance. Nothing I said applies to you, aside from the formula to know your real damage reduction. Hint: Much lower than 74% vs hard hits.
Context... Evasion and Armor are both pretty bad. Without a solid investment, evasion is usually better than armor. Pure armor beats the hell out of pure evasion, that's a given, even before endurance charges. But as a 2nd defense, evasion is fine, as long as you don't waste points on evasion passives. Grab more life instead. tl;dr People hear that evasion is crap everywhere, and think simply converting it to armor will solve their problems. But that's far from the truth. You grab too much life to compensate for the randomness of evasion, and gimp yourself in other ways such as lack of keystones. Armor is very point efficient, especially IR/Unwavering Stance builds. It lets you get free armor through Grace+Evasion Gear. Evasion is not random, and armor gets less and less useful the harder the enemy hits. Just saying. Rigth now i dont see any better defense than a mix of both armor and evasion/block and a lot of endurance charges. The fix dmg reduction does A LOT against hard hitting bosses. As much life as possible is mandatory too of course. Evasion IS random, it is chance to evade against certain attacks. It only averages out against large number of incoming attacks, but against strong big hits evasion is random as fuck. Evasion/Block are garbage defensive nodes. Taking Evasion at all means you get stunned, which means you get mobbed on and die. Lack of stun immunity is a big problem, and alot of HC players take IR/Unwavering Stance because it is incredibly point efficient (break 6k armor point without having to go through too much) all while granting stun immunity. Evasion is, and always will be a bad defensive mechanic because of the lack of stun immunity. It seems you dont understand how the evasion mechanics work. There is nothing random about it. With 50 percent evasion every other attack will be dodged. 1) Certain skills are not dodged by evasion. 2) The first hit of a big hit against evasion does more damage than it does when you have armor/endurance/granite flasks together. Yes you have a chance to evade that hit, but you're gonna get hit at some point, and you're gonna need a shit ton more life than you would than say the guy that pops his Granite Flask and has 30k+ armor. 3) You need significantly more life than you would with an armor build to survive. Like, significantly more. To the point where the life pool you need significantly gimps your ability to do anything else, and hurts your utility badly because you have to invest so much in life (which armor builds already put a ton into) that you're likely to be lacking in alot of keystones that an armor build would have. On February 28 2013 07:59 Spazer wrote:On February 28 2013 07:51 shabby wrote:On February 28 2013 07:36 Marradron wrote:On February 28 2013 07:11 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:50 Tyrran wrote:On February 27 2013 21:18 superstartran wrote:On February 27 2013 13:43 Pwere wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Evasion is at least on par with armor without unwavering stance.. which was my point.. Armor is bad, but it's better than nothing, which is what you get with unwavering stance without IR or pure Armor gear (which btw hits values on par with evasion now. Lots of people aren't aware of that buff a few patches ago).
The post I was answering to specifically said that he was using Ghost Reaver, implying he could use the eye of Chayula, in which case ES/Evasion + Arrow dodge hybrid is viable and actually better than wasting points to grab IR, unless he deals physical damage, in which case, IR is required.
@Obstikal, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion... you're not using evasion, and you're using unwavering stance. Nothing I said applies to you, aside from the formula to know your real damage reduction. Hint: Much lower than 74% vs hard hits.
Context... Evasion and Armor are both pretty bad. Without a solid investment, evasion is usually better than armor. Pure armor beats the hell out of pure evasion, that's a given, even before endurance charges. But as a 2nd defense, evasion is fine, as long as you don't waste points on evasion passives. Grab more life instead. tl;dr People hear that evasion is crap everywhere, and think simply converting it to armor will solve their problems. But that's far from the truth. You grab too much life to compensate for the randomness of evasion, and gimp yourself in other ways such as lack of keystones. Armor is very point efficient, especially IR/Unwavering Stance builds. It lets you get free armor through Grace+Evasion Gear. Evasion is not random, and armor gets less and less useful the harder the enemy hits. Just saying. Rigth now i dont see any better defense than a mix of both armor and evasion/block and a lot of endurance charges. The fix dmg reduction does A LOT against hard hitting bosses. As much life as possible is mandatory too of course. Evasion IS random, it is chance to evade against certain attacks. It only averages out against large number of incoming attacks, but against strong big hits evasion is random as fuck. Evasion/Block are garbage defensive nodes. Taking Evasion at all means you get stunned, which means you get mobbed on and die. Lack of stun immunity is a big problem, and alot of HC players take IR/Unwavering Stance because it is incredibly point efficient (break 6k armor point without having to go through too much) all while granting stun immunity. Evasion is, and always will be a bad defensive mechanic because of the lack of stun immunity. It seems you dont understand how the evasion mechanics work. There is nothing random about it. With 50 percent evasion every other attack will be dodged. You know you can flip a coin and get 50 heads in a row, right? Same way a boss can hit you 5 times in a row with 50% evasion and kill you dead. It is random, and only averages out in large numbers, as stated above. By that logic though, there's a chance that a boss could crit your armor based character multiple times and kill them, bypassing most of your damage reduction in the process. Ultimately, as has been stated multiple times in this thread, armor and evasion is only reliable in conjunction with high HP. You need less hp with an armor build than you need with an evasion build. Crit may do big damage to an armor build, but if a crit goes through against an evasion build you're dead period. You have a chance of surviving with enough armor/endurance charges + reduce cript multipler nodes in the Mara tree. No such thing for an Evasion build. A lot of this is only true on very, very small time scales - the space of 1-2 hits at most. If you're talking about being killed by a single hit, then yes, evasion is obviously at a disadvantage compared to armor. However, it's a much, much smaller disadvantage than you'd think, given how armor falls off in effectiveness as hits become larger and larger. If something is going to do your entire life pool in a single swing, assuming you actually have an appropriate life total, which is to say you have a decent amount on gear, and have invested some passives in it, then chances are that the hit is so large that your armor reduction vs it will be quite low, for instance, even it was only doing exactly your health pool (no more), you'd need 12 times that amount to reduce it by 50%. Even in your exaggerated example, someone with 30k armor reduces any hit over 2.5k by less than 50%. If you've got 30k armor, then sure you can take a 5k swing and live with just over 2.5k life, but what are you doing with 30k armor and 2.5k life? If we're talking about dying in any more than a single hit, you really want to back down off of the discussion of large hits, because evasion is going to outperform armor point for point by a wide margin. The kind of armor you'd need to reduce a hit, say for 80% of your life total, by 50% is absolutely astounding, and with the same amount of evasion you'll probably be avoiding at least 2 out of every 3, if not more. Then consider taking 3 of these hits - the evasion character eats the full 80% to the face, and avoids the other two. In the mean time, the armor character takes 40%x3 = 120% of his life. In other words, over any time scale more than a single hit, the evasion character is going to take less (or at worst, the same) damage than the armor character. Of course, there are other things to consider like shield block, the evasion of the armor character, the armor of the evasion character and the like, but I'd say its fair to count these things as a wash, assuming that the characters are equally geared. Naturally, when you start talking about dying to many smaller melees over time, armor comes out on top. And there will be a point at which the two are in fact giving equal amounts of reduction - armor is reducing each hit by a certain amount and evasion is preventing the same proportion of hits, such that over time (and to be clear, we're not speaking of minutes, we're speaking of the space of around 10 melees, depending on the actual evasion level) both will take the same amount of damage. If raw hits are larger, evasion will win until the point where you're dying in a single hit, smaller (raw) hits, and armor wins. There's no philosophy here, because of the non-random way in which evasion is calculated, it's very simple to compare the two, and very easy to decide which is going to mitigate more damage at a given level of raw white-swing damage. Getting 5k hp + 30K armor is not difficult when everyone grabs Inner Force (which buffs Granite Flasks) and grabs all life passives anyways. You guys keep evaluating Evasion/Armor in a vacuum without taking into the fact that Armor takes less skill points to be as effective as Evasion (if not more effective). You pick up a handful of nodes to get ridiculous armor numbers, meanwhile Evasion with all its randomness, its ability to be stunned, along with the crazy amount of life you need, has to sacrifice some skill points to compensate. This means you're gonna be lacking some utility or damage either way. TL;DR in a vacuum Evasion and Armor look equal until you look at the fact that Armor means you get to use str alot (which grants damage and health) and grants you access to nodes that you want anyways (the best life/survival nodes are on the str side of the tree). There IS a reason why everyone goes armor if they are a life build in HC. If Evasion was legitimately as good or better than armor, everyone would be going that. However, that is clearly not the case.
There is, because Evasion cannot dodge the most dangerous attacks and Armor reduces at least some of that. This attacks being LeapSlam goatmen, charge rhoa, shield chage blackguard, rolling cinder eles etc etc.
And just to restate the fact, evasion IS NOT RANDOM. Its systematic.
Whenever a combat start there will be a roll between 1-100. Lets say u rolled 50 and ur evade chance is 30%(ur evasion rating calculated against the mobs accuracy rating that is).
If u add 50 to 30 u'll get 80, which is under 100 so u will get hit.
Next attack add 30 again u'll get 110, so u will dodge. since u dodged subtract 100.
now ur at 10, add 30, its 40 so ull get hit.
U get the picture, no randomness besides the fact that u might dodge the "low" attacks and take the big ones.
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im pretty sure armor isn't even that important either. im no expert but i'd guess the PRIMARY reason most people go armor when they go heavy life is because the heaviest life nodes are on the same side of the tree as armor
also, i don't think armor nor evasion matter as much as simply having a ton of life. isn't the main reason people get good armor to deal with physical reflect? (main reason obviously it's still useful).
the armor really isn't going to reduce the hits from the rhoas that much unless it's crazy high because those assholes hit like a truck anyways.
but geeze it is bullcrap that you can't evade the stuff you listed... those should be evadable.
so long story short: life imba ?
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Thoroughly enjoying this game. 
Name: Maedi/Mosoka/Namjaga
Build: Experimenting with various melee, several characters over 60+.
Hardcore
North America
Also yeah, armor isn't that big of a deal, I've been running glass cannon melee builds in hardcore and I don't take any armor passives. It's too easy to stack armor up for bursts and reflect mobs via armor modifier flasks. Meh.
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On February 28 2013 11:53 travis wrote:
im pretty sure armor isn't even that important either. im no expert but i'd guess the PRIMARY reason most people go armor when they go heavy life is because the heaviest life nodes are on the same side of the tree as armor
also, i don't think armor nor evasion matter as much as simply having a ton of life. isn't the main reason people get good armor to deal with physical reflect? (main reason obviously it's still useful).
the armor really isn't going to reduce the hits from the rhoas that much unless it's crazy high because those assholes hit like a truck anyways.
but geeze it is bullcrap that you can't evade the stuff you listed... those should be evadable.
so long story short: life imba ?
well no ur kinda wrong there. ele dmg scales like WAYYYYYYYYY better than physical. PPL get armor cause its the only way to reduce some dmg from the stuff i listed. even if its just 10% its still something compared 2 nothing.
the "best" way to go about it is probably evasion into armour with + evasion in ranger and life nodes in templar and marauder and statics for dmg. (purely buffer point of playing on HC)
and i dont think its bullshit that u cant evade certain attacks, cause so the game never gets faceroll. almost ghetting oneshot in a 66 map as 81 char is kind of a wakeupcall xD
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On February 28 2013 12:19 fearpLug wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 11:53 travis wrote:
im pretty sure armor isn't even that important either. im no expert but i'd guess the PRIMARY reason most people go armor when they go heavy life is because the heaviest life nodes are on the same side of the tree as armor
also, i don't think armor nor evasion matter as much as simply having a ton of life. isn't the main reason people get good armor to deal with physical reflect? (main reason obviously it's still useful).
the armor really isn't going to reduce the hits from the rhoas that much unless it's crazy high because those assholes hit like a truck anyways.
but geeze it is bullcrap that you can't evade the stuff you listed... those should be evadable.
so long story short: life imba ? and i dont think its bullshit that u cant evade certain attacks, cause so the game never gets faceroll. almost ghetting oneshot in a 66 map as 81 char is kind of a wakeupcall xD
didn't you yourself say everyone goes armor over evasion in hardcore because it's the only way to negate the most dangerous physical attacks?
well maybe you didn't say most dangerous, but i think rhoas are basically the most dangerous
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On February 28 2013 12:26 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 12:19 fearpLug wrote:On February 28 2013 11:53 travis wrote:
im pretty sure armor isn't even that important either. im no expert but i'd guess the PRIMARY reason most people go armor when they go heavy life is because the heaviest life nodes are on the same side of the tree as armor
also, i don't think armor nor evasion matter as much as simply having a ton of life. isn't the main reason people get good armor to deal with physical reflect? (main reason obviously it's still useful).
the armor really isn't going to reduce the hits from the rhoas that much unless it's crazy high because those assholes hit like a truck anyways.
but geeze it is bullcrap that you can't evade the stuff you listed... those should be evadable.
so long story short: life imba ? and i dont think its bullshit that u cant evade certain attacks, cause so the game never gets faceroll. almost ghetting oneshot in a 66 map as 81 char is kind of a wakeupcall xD didn't you yourself say everyone goes armor over evasion in hardcore because it's the only way to negate the most dangerous physical attacks? well maybe you didn't say most dangerous, but i think rhoas are basically the most dangerous
They take it because it mitigates it to some degree while evasion does nothing if you get hit. Not to mention that as stated, most of the best defensive nodes are on the armor side of the tree, and all the good strength nodes are on that side also.
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EPT
