|
|
On December 18 2018 22:06 travis wrote:
Well if you are going to talk about how hard the game is, you are going to have to use a specific metric.
To clear to shaper? To kill shaper? Uber Atziri? Doing the challenges? Level 100?
I would say that in general, players are being able to do all of the above faster with each new league (well not always, but the general trend). Part of that is player skill, and part is power creep. But it's not all bad. I remember not being able to complete my basic build until someone was selling a multistrike, because it wasn't sold by vendors lol.
The power creep is in one way completely obvious. Back when atziri was first put in the game, even regular atziri was extremely difficult and considered end-end game content. Now regular atziri is a pushover for any character in their 70s, low 80s who haven't even begun the process of insane damage ramping that is late-game poe.
On the other hand though, there are many bosses now which are way more difficult than atziri, like shaper, elder, uber elder, even the guardian fights.
|
Tabulas basically can't be 1c because they always vendor for a divine. They always stabilize at the value of a divine by the middle of the league.
Whether casual players can farn gg endgame gear has zero relevance to anything because gg endgame gear is so far and away more powerful than what's needed to clear all content in the game. GGG keeps increasing the ceiling on character power, but there's no content that actually pushes that ceiling, and raising the ceiling depresses the value of everything else.
|
On December 18 2018 14:05 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2018 13:35 bo1b wrote:
Go play diablo then, poe for the longest period was fundamentally opposed to mindless lootsplosions. Weren't you just talking about how Betrayal is overtuned lol
On December 18 2018 14:10 ggsimida wrote:
yeah that guy is probably drunk or something. looking forward to cognitive dissonance later
I think there's a difference between thinking something is stupidly over tuned and not wanting constant lootsplosion like game play.
While we're talking about cognitive dissonance, have a gander at these two posts:
On December 18 2018 08:52 ggsimida wrote:
sometimes you just want to mindlessly chain maps and grab loot without having to worry about facing guardian tier bosses drowning you in tanky clutter in every single fucking map
On December 18 2018 13:54 ggsimida wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2018 13:35 bo1b wrote:
Go play diablo then, poe for the longest period was fundamentally opposed to mindless lootsplosions. harharhar, that policy stopped since poe closed beta. poe is slowly gravitating towards diablo more than anything to pander to casuals (thats where the money is). look at how people lap it up and buy packs when ggg made wonderful midleague "buffs" like syndicate nerfs, its so easy money for them. "holy fuck they actually listen to player feedback unlike blizz!" also is that only the argument u have ? muh d3 vs poe schtick grew old ages ago. face it, this is the hacknslash genre, u want difficulty go play dark souls or something.
|
On December 18 2018 20:55 Ryndika wrote:
When they initially nerfed ES it did see kinda weird but this league basically made occultist curse CI meta again. Vortex cold snap, max curse effectiveness 13k es is just so good for betrayal. I'm kinda sad they went the hasty way nerfing the content. I guess the initial design team is just incompetent. The mechanic etc had so great potential to be kinda that invasion fun rippy league but if a mob does non-projectile range attack for over 7k through basalt and loreweave and reduced global damage taken modifiers with one damage mod, then it's kinda weird.
In incursion you had a lot manoeuvring to not get hit and it was super fun and lethal at same time.
There was multiple things wrong with delve that didn't get addressed and probably betrayal won't either get tweaked in real way. This nerf was probably done only because of reddit posts. Very disappointing since I wanted on your face, rippy league.
Why the fuck is alchemy orb so expensive this league? I'm used to it be 1/3 when it's "expensive state" and 1/>3 when it's getting cheaper.
I'm with you pretty much all the way but let's be real: These design issues aren't exactly new.
Initial content is always off-balance (if we want to believe people like Mors this includes things the alpha testers called out weeks before release every single league), people go apeshit on reddit and elsewhere because "but I wanted to be more powerful than last league" and after 1-2 weeks a patch comes that makes things easier in ways that don't address core issues.
Odds are the majority of the GGG team is already busy with designing the next league since a few weeks, so stuff like "lets remove some adds and nerf damage numbers" is a much, much easier quick fix than ensuring animations for big attacks aren't invisible/almost non-existent.
All we can do at this point is enjoy the game as it is, the magic rebalance of all content that will bring back the original PoE won't happen. Some people might remember that there's quite a few exiles that used to be as scary as It That Fled or Tora are now.
@Wave: The whole "Tabulas are at 1c already" is kind of cute, I hope you didn't fall for that. I blame Yango for not teaching you well. =P
|
If any of you actually are fed up with the pace of gameplay or powercreep in POE, you could try Grim Dawn. The pace is much slower and it truly is a game that has a similar level of quality to POE.
Unfortunately it doesn't really have an "online presence", so it hasn't been able to compete with POE, and it is a little lacking in end game.
|
Honestly not quite sure why the Betrayal difficulty gets so much flak in SC. My last rip to syndicate members was before lvl 90 when my gear was mostly self-found and I didn't have Vaal Grace + Phase acro. The bullshit max range one shots seem to happen only if you've previously activated them and ran away. Fix those, and nerf their lingering/post death effects, but the rest is fine. At least add mods to safehouses after the nerfs, those things are way too easy.
Delve progress is still way too slow. By the time I filled my Atlas and killed Shaper, my Delve was only at ilvl 75. If they don't change the progression further after this patch, it might be worth skipping in future leagues. Incursion is mostly irrelevant until ilvl 83 as well, but at least you don't have to grind it forever to get there.
Making money in SC is all about It That Fled rank 3 in Research, hitting some Guff crafts in Transpo, and scarabs from Intervention. Multi-crafted gear is ridiculously strong, which drives down the price of really good rares that still can't compete. Combined with free exalts from Leo (mostly for jewels) and double-crafts from Aisling, reaching insane power levels more than makes up for Betrayal difficulty.
Dropped 1ex, 4 divines, 0 annul on my way to lvl 95 this league. Seems about average for the past few leagues. I seem to recall exalts being more common than divines in 1.x, but I always get way more divines in 3.x.
Strong league overall. Lots of crafting options, some of them a bit too strong, and plenty to do even when you chain only one map. It's missing mostly polish, so I really hope they keep patching somewhere in January and go for a temp league in Feb.
|
On December 18 2018 23:57 Pwere wrote:
Honestly not quite sure why the Betrayal difficulty gets so much flak in SC. My last rip to syndicate members was before lvl 90 when my gear was mostly self-found and I didn't have Vaal Grace + Phase acro. The bullshit max range one shots seem to happen only if you've previously activated them and ran away. Fix those, and nerf their lingering/post death effects, but the rest is fine. At least add mods to safehouses after the nerfs, those things are way too easy.
Delve progress is still way too slow. By the time I filled my Atlas and killed Shaper, my Delve was only at ilvl 75. If they don't change the progression further after this patch, it might be worth skipping in future leagues. Incursion is mostly irrelevant until ilvl 83 as well, but at least you don't have to grind it forever to get there.
Making money in SC is all about It That Fled rank 3 in Research, hitting some Guff crafts in Transpo, and scarabs from Intervention. Multi-crafted gear is ridiculously strong, which drives down the price of really good rares that still can't compete. Combined with free exalts from Leo (mostly for jewels) and double-crafts from Aisling, reaching insane power levels more than makes up for Betrayal difficulty.
Dropped 1ex, 4 divines, 0 annul on my way to lvl 95 this league. Seems about average for the past few leagues. I seem to recall exalts being more common than divines in 1.x, but I always get way more divines in 3.x.
Strong league overall. Lots of crafting options, some of them a bit too strong, and plenty to do even when you chain only one map. It's missing mostly polish, so I really hope they keep patching somewhere in January and go for a temp league in Feb.
So you got just as bad luck as me in terms of currency drops, imo Divines and Exas drop chances are about (or exactly) 1:1 if we exclude selling 6Ls. I want to think I know it's bad because it was much better the past two leagues (specifially finding more Exas and less Divines) and I got a few other people to compare with.
Anyway, I was at Delve monster level 80 when I killed Shaper and had my Atlas 95% completed. It helps that I also never really wasted sulphite, I did the trick to farm azurite at low zone level to raise the capacity early on which helped tons. If you buy less maps (I bought a lot this league, like 30-40 probably) or want to find all yourself (or have to like in SSF) you might even be at 83 Delve before doing that, unless you got sick map drop luck.
|
On December 18 2018 13:35 bo1b wrote:
Go play diablo then, poe for the longest period was fundamentally opposed to mindless lootsplosions.
D3 has been out of active development for over a year now, might wanna find a new game to suggest.
|
On December 18 2018 22:25 Duka08 wrote:Hm?? Looks like 10ish on SC (after outliers) and 14 on HC lol. Not like calling you out or anything, but after I read that I had to check for myself lol, that'd be somethin else
That's so weird. I saw a few last night, but yeah forgot about the divine floor so that wouldn't make sense.
@evo I don't listen to him often enough probs haha
Just further evidence of my casual showing
|
If you are seeing stuff being sold for below base value, it's almost certainly bots spoofing the market.
|
I think the biggest point of conflict here comes from our expectations of this game.
I consider myself an enthusiast gamer.
I play games as a hobby and to have fun. I don't usually play it as a challenge or to prove myself.
I did play some games as challenge (Xcom/UFO on hardest ironman mode) but most I am just happy if the game provides some challenge without wasting too much of my time.
I only have two goals in PoE: try a build and have fun. I take it slow and don't care to access Shaper in less than 1 week. I don't care to use every trick to get rich fast or even learn some game mechanics that allow that (crafting).
Things like super rippy syndicate kill both goals.
They also do so for 95% of other players.
This has nothing to do with Reddit. Reddit didn't nerf anything, it only brought to light what most players find not fun. GGG nerfed it because they care to stay in business.
|
"I don't care about learning or improving to get better at the game" is pretty much the casual attitude that lead us to this point, one that has been displayed in 95% of reddit posts about people calling syndicate OP for bullshit reasons.
The core issue is that to attract more profit GGG decided to push towards a more mainstream audience, one that isn't so much into the 'hardcore ARPG' that PoE set out to be. There's obviously nothing wrong with that, still always funny to see how entitled that group tends to be once it takes over the majority of a playerbase in any given game - I'm pretty confident that's where most of the "I didn't do anything wrong but I'm getting oneshot so often pls fix op super rippy syndicate!!!!11" is coming from instead of more reasonable criticism.
We'll see what it looks like after the nerfs, I'm not very hopeful though. Odds are they'll be dangerous if you roll genuinely stupid maps but a joke otherwise.
|
Giving shit feedback that addresses their in the moment feelings directly rather than looking at the core issues that cause them is ubiquitous and not particularly correlated with casual and hardcore. It's literally GGG's job to deal with that, not the player's. I agree that GGG does not have a particularly good track record of doing their job well, but please blame them for that.
|
On December 19 2018 03:49 r.Evo wrote:
"I don't care about learning or improving to get better at the game" is pretty much the casual attitude that lead us to this point, one that has been displayed in 95% of reddit posts about people calling syndicate OP for bullshit reasons.
The core issue is that to attract more profit GGG decided to push towards a more mainstream audience, one that isn't so much into the 'hardcore ARPG' that PoE set out to be. There's obviously nothing wrong with that, still always funny to see how entitled that group tends to be once it takes over the majority of a playerbase in any given game - I'm pretty confident that's where most of the "I didn't do anything wrong but I'm getting oneshot so often pls fix op super rippy syndicate!!!!11" is coming from instead of more reasonable criticism.
We'll see what it looks like after the nerfs, I'm not very hopeful though. Odds are they'll be dangerous if you roll genuinely stupid maps but a joke otherwise.
If that first part is comment on what I said about crafting all I can say is: nice strawman.
And GGG never set to make the most hardcore game ever. They did set to make a successor to Diablo 2 since as they said nobody else was doing it (and at the time nobody knew Diablo 3 was being made). After D3 turned out to be focused on total casual people (not just casual H&S players) Path of Exile could easily present and market itself as "hardcore". Compared to D3, Minecraft was hardcore.
You seem to have some set idea on what GGG's goal for the game was even with them making game as it is for years now and going against your expectations.
At the moment the problem is not reddit but your personal expectations of GGG that do not fit the reality.
|
On December 19 2018 03:49 r.Evo wrote:
"I don't care about learning or improving to get better at the game" is pretty much the casual attitude that lead us to this point, one that has been displayed in 95% of reddit posts about people calling syndicate OP for bullshit reasons.
The core issue is that to attract more profit GGG decided to push towards a more mainstream audience, one that isn't so much into the 'hardcore ARPG' that PoE set out to be. There's obviously nothing wrong with that, still always funny to see how entitled that group tends to be once it takes over the majority of a playerbase in any given game - I'm pretty confident that's where most of the "I didn't do anything wrong but I'm getting oneshot so often pls fix op super rippy syndicate!!!!11" is coming from instead of more reasonable criticism.
We'll see what it looks like after the nerfs, I'm not very hopeful though. Odds are they'll be dangerous if you roll genuinely stupid maps but a joke otherwise.
What made you think PoE was ever this hardcore game? Ive said it a few posts back: SC leagues were always lootsplosions, it was only the HC leagues that were really punishing. Now that theyre only doing 1 league at a time, they went with the SC league design rather than the HC design. Considering that only a fraction of players played HC in those masochistic leagues, iirc around 15% of players, I would say this is a sound decision
|
I think there's a balance in PoE, where sub-75 content feels casual, but endgame starts putting the player up against an unforgiving wall of mechanics and knowledge. I wouldn't define it as a "hardcore" game through and through, but there's definitely a point in progression where you have to commit to learning the game yourself or borrowing someone else's knowledge to progress.
I do think it fair to define a game where a filter to reduce shown loot is all but mandatory as "lootsplosion" though 
|
how do i go about making a loot filter?
just started playing again (mostly with my roommate) as a few of you might have noticed. 
|
On December 19 2018 11:11 Varanice wrote:how do i go about making a loot filter? just started playing again (mostly with my roommate) as a few of you might have noticed.
http://www.filterblade.xyz
Edit: yo anyone getting crazy lag/slowdown after the 3.5.0d patch this evening? I'm playing a winter orb build but just got to white maps and I'm getting the same sort of lag on shattering ANY pack that I've only seen before with 40%+ pack size and double beyond or something. It was just fine earlier today, my gear and maps are not to the point where I expect that sort of lag blowing up the whole screen.
|
Man, fuck them removing the Aisling double crafts being recraftable. There goes a really cool chase for this league. Gotta remove those 4 T1 items being craftable, let's keep the changes that make a single T1 item mirror worthy instead. Really pissed about this one, was actually looking forward to slowly grinding towards that. I think Dan said hitting the dbl craft was 1/16ish and Waggle mentioned it's 1/6ish. Make it be one bench max, make it red map exclusive (this is missing in this league anyway), but just removing it feels pretty bad.
Maybe this one causes an uproar too, but I highly doubt it - not enough people saw how both amazing and grindy this thing was. Even thought "this was prolly not intended but cool that they kept it so I can just farm it after the patch" since it wasn't included in the notes. RIP dreams.
On December 19 2018 05:54 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2018 03:49 r.Evo wrote:
"I don't care about learning or improving to get better at the game" is pretty much the casual attitude that lead us to this point, one that has been displayed in 95% of reddit posts about people calling syndicate OP for bullshit reasons.
The core issue is that to attract more profit GGG decided to push towards a more mainstream audience, one that isn't so much into the 'hardcore ARPG' that PoE set out to be. There's obviously nothing wrong with that, still always funny to see how entitled that group tends to be once it takes over the majority of a playerbase in any given game - I'm pretty confident that's where most of the "I didn't do anything wrong but I'm getting oneshot so often pls fix op super rippy syndicate!!!!11" is coming from instead of more reasonable criticism.
We'll see what it looks like after the nerfs, I'm not very hopeful though. Odds are they'll be dangerous if you roll genuinely stupid maps but a joke otherwise. What made you think PoE was ever this hardcore game? Ive said it a few posts back: SC leagues were always lootsplosions, it was only the HC leagues that were really punishing. Now that theyre only doing 1 league at a time, they went with the SC league design rather than the HC design. Considering that only a fraction of players played HC in those masochistic leagues, iirc around 15% of players, I would say this is a sound decision I joined way back in beta, back when PoE was marketed pretty much exclusively to the 'Hardcore ARPG'-crowd. Turned out that over time there's less money in that audience though. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the game (or rather the first two weeks of a league), but I also still care enough to be annoyed to see GGG make the same half-assed decisions time and time again.
You can make challenging content and lootsplosions. Back during split leagues my primary complaint was that HC was all punishment with no incentive, now the issue is the exact opposite. This league went in the proper direction (hard but rewarding content) but now took a 180 turn. I've said it before, a good league kills you because you're a greedy fucker who wants more than what he can handle - but it also rewards you for somehow managing despite the odds being stacked against you.
Stuff like Anarchy, Tempest, Warbands or even Perandus were designed with that idea in mind - analogue to Betrayal. Stuff like Harbinger, Abyss, Beastiary or Incursion weren't. So if I'm honest, this league was a really nice fresh change in a different but familiar and welcome direction.
|
I also started playing in closed beta, just as they added act 2 and it was mostly empty with no boss at the end.
Of course game was hard back then, it was still in development, people who played were testers, not their intended audience. Even back then Chris was saying they had a 10 year plan for the game.
And it was always based around grinding instead of game difficulty.
I fully believe what we get now is more or less what they wanted all along but they lacked contents at the time. So we had Hailrake, warden and Mervail be a serious danger. And Vaal oversoul would murder your ass fast.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
