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On December 04 2018 18:59 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2018 16:06 -Archangel- wrote:As well as the new Brand skills, the archetype based on them has led to changes on the Hierophant, and also had knock on effect for totems. A number of totem nodes now also offer benefits for Brands. The Hierophant node Ritual of Awakening no longer grants +1 to maximum number of Summoned Totems. Instead it now causes skills that would Summon a Totem to summon two Totems instead, and grants 3% more Damage per Totem. Fuck, just when I wanted to plays a totem hiero  For map clear I would rather have +1 totem then summon two at a time.. Two at a time seems way stronger for clearing since you rarely have all totems shooting at once anyway, except at bosses. And as they say, there will be more ways to get +1 totems, we know about crafted shields already. Totems looks to be stronger than ever. They teased about changes to Arc though(unsurprisingly), wonder how hard that will hit. I was gonna take a stab at ssf this league with Arc in some manner.
For clearing you don't need more than one totem unless your build sucks. And for bossing your DPS just got killed by 1/4 (4 to 3 totems). I hope that those +1 totem on gear is not super hard to get.
I didn't plan to use that +1 totem armor for this character, wanted to use proper rings and such instead but if getting +1 totem on rare items will be very hard or expensive I might need to.
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On December 04 2018 14:13 bo1b wrote:
Molten strike has the benefit of easy ele equilibrium as well.
Wouldn't that only benefit +damage to spells anyway, since the balls get any generic or conversion +elemental damage?
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Yes, you scale the spell damage typically in coc scenarios.
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Sorry I brainfarted forgot there are good elemental spells (meant it seems hard to piece together enough raw +cold/lightning spell only damage for it to be really good with a phys spell). Oops
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I'm getting impatient for dem patchnotes
Although after launch weekend I'll be out of town unable to play for a few days
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Not only you, I've been PoB'ing a lot recently and can't wait to see what the patch changes. But I don't expect it until at least 6 hours, anything earlier would be a welcome surprise though!
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On December 04 2018 09:44 ASoo wrote:
*edit* Question for people who played back when CoC was good: What's the best melee attack to use to trigger your spells? If the answer is "Molten Strike," what's the second best one (I fucking hate Molten Strike)?
Shield Charge for the most part, you just charge through the map and proc spells along the way.
Against tougher bosses Cyclone is handy because you are stun immune.
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On December 05 2018 01:55 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2018 09:44 ASoo wrote:
*edit* Question for people who played back when CoC was good: What's the best melee attack to use to trigger your spells? If the answer is "Molten Strike," what's the second best one (I fucking hate Molten Strike)? Shield Charge for the most part, you just charge through the map and proc spells along the way. Against tougher bosses Cyclone is handy because you are stun immune.
Do you put Shield Charge in your 6L and gem swap for bosses? Or are you talking about setups like Cospri's where you can trigger spells on Shield Charge even without linking it?
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If BV doesn't take a huge nerf I'm probably doing SSF BV Chieftain
Waiting on them notes tho
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Been awhile since the CoC gem was actually used, but as I remember it cyclone was pretty much always used and whirling blades was just used to get around. These days tho I'm guessing that well geared CoC will use shield charge in its six link and have scaled its damage so much it's not worth swapping cyclone in until guardians/shaper/elder/etc. It's alot easier to shield charge repeatedly on a boss than whirling blades was and 3-4 aps will be passable with good gear for the easier bosses.
Edit: It will depend on if you use 1 spell or multiple spells tho, shield charge/cyclone/blade flurry are only gonna work well with 1 spell CoC, if you are doing multiple you will need to do something that has multiple projectiles per attack.
Edit2: Actually I just did some testing and since shield charge damages as it goes through mobs the damage occurs on different frames so you can shield charge through a pack and trigger multiple spells.
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Speaking of Shield Charge, something that's been on my mind for a while now. With the changes to shield charge recently and no more Brightbeak and such, is there MUCH of a downside to using Leap Slam in its place? I prefer Leap Slam as an all-rounder because it can clear gaps and I hate having two movement abilities (one for getting around and one for gaps), but S.Charge used to just be a lot easier to get going very fast. The changes last patch might have balanced that out?
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I know that 2H weapons have been out of favor vs. dual-wield for a while.
1. Why is this? It would seem that having potentially more range on your weapon + another 6 link would be plenty advantageous.
2. Will this conceivably change due to the changes made to DW?
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On December 05 2018 03:24 Jealous wrote:
1. Why is this? It would seem that having potentially more range on your weapon + another 6 link would be plenty advantageous.
Two big reasons:
1 - What a 2H gives you just doesn't compete with what you can get with two 1H slots. 1H + inherent dual wielding bonuses + stat stick just gives way more damage than a 2H setup, and if you want defenses, a shield is enormous. Plus there are a whole bunch of shields that do build-enabling things (like Esh's Mirror for autobombers, or Lycosidae for any attack build that doesn't get autohit from its ascendancy).
2 - The movement skills available for 1H setups (Whirling Blades and Shield Charge) are much smoother and faster to use than the ones available to 2H setups (Leap Slam, Charged Dash, and spells).
At the same time, the benefits you get for using a 2H (higher base weapon DPS and a second 6L setup) just aren't that important - the damage is less than dual wielding, and most builds don't care about scaling the damage of multiple abilities.
On December 05 2018 03:24 Jealous wrote:
2. Will this conceivably change due to the changes made to DW?
Unclear.
Stat sticks no longer work for melee, but I'm not sure if this will be enough to make 2H the new meta DPS setup - it might still be worse than true dual wielding or Lycosidae setups.
Shield Charge is being nerfed, but again, remains to be seen if that'll be enough to make people switch to other setups - it might still be the best option, or everyone might just use Whirling Blades now.
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On December 05 2018 03:24 Jealous wrote:
I know that 2H weapons have been out of favor vs. dual-wield for a while.
1. Why is this? It would seem that having potentially more range on your weapon + another 6 link would be plenty advantageous.
2. Will this conceivably change due to the changes made to DW?
1. Attack speed tends to make things feel smoother overall and scales better, only a few abilities really benefit from having more weapon range (namely Cyclone). A second 6L can be nice in some specific builds. Bow builds for example almost always have a clear skill on one 6L and then single target on the other, but a lot of melee builds would probably prefer crazy attack speed and other options (and stat stick, before the nerf) of DW over this kind of flexibility.
2. Not sure myself, as I think DW > 2H has been the favor even since before Shaped items were introduced in 3.1 or whatever. Stat sticks just widened the gap.
Edit: yeah this also doesn't even consider shields like the above post mentions, which not only great defensively but often have unique stats/effects as well.
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On December 05 2018 03:24 Jealous wrote:
I know that 2H weapons have been out of favor vs. dual-wield for a while.
1. Why is this? It would seem that having potentially more range on your weapon + another 6 link would be plenty advantageous.
2. Will this conceivably change due to the changes made to DW?
Yeah so there are a lot of factors that make 1h better than 2h
In no particular order,
1H bases are faster. With all the added damage available, the base speed of the weapon is much more important than just a "dps" number.
Dual Wielding grants a 15% more attackspeed and Physical Attack Damage buff to compensate for the lower damage values compared to 2H weapons (since you don't get the defensive buff of a shield). While 2h still achieves higher dps values in some scenarios, this free attackspeed and damage is very relevant when attackspeed is movespeed (leapslam etc) and also just in general makes it so that the damage potential isn't so far off with a good 1h weapon.
Stat sticks are the true key, of course, since getting ~80% more damage on an offhand blows potential 2h dps numbers out of the water.
dual wielding grants block, which 2h mostly doesn't get (outside of a little bit on staves)
1h base weapons are mostly better for crit since the only 2h base with crit is a stave (impossible to roll rare pdps staves).
foils ("1 hand thrusting swords") have the same range as 2h weapons so you don't even sacrifice range.
The removal of statsticks shifts the balance but doesn't fix all these advantages that dual wielding has. However, the cost of affording 2 really good 1h weapons is going to make dual wielding a bit less free.
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On December 05 2018 02:35 ThaddeusK wrote:
Been awhile since the CoC gem was actually used, but as I remember it cyclone was pretty much always used and whirling blades was just used to get around.
Well, Shield Charge was shit for most of the time CoC was good, if I remember correctly there was only one or 2 leagues where both were good (the height of CoC Discharge). Wasn't that the Gorge meta?
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Thank you for the answers as always, guys. I have a biased attachment to 2H axes and have been looking for ways to maximize their benefit in PoE.
Another question for those familiar with D2; is there a build that would be analogous to a Zealerdin? Fanaticism aura + multiple targets fast attack speed that hits every enemy with your weapon and not some AoE ability like Reave with a 1 hand weapon + shield, pure melee?
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2H axes are a legitimately good choice for Cyclone builds if you have any interest in that (and have been even during the stat stick era).
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On December 05 2018 02:35 Duka08 wrote:
If BV doesn't take a huge nerf I'm probably doing SSF BV Chieftain
Waiting on them notes tho
You and me both - have you been playing around with PoB? I muttered some thoughts on levelling/crafting on Mirkula's thread, and found this recent (non-SSF) Reddit thread from someone who got L100 & 40/40 on BV Chieftain interesting re: crafting items for the build.
Hopefully the wiki etc will get updated fairly promptly if div card drop locations get shuffled around, but I'm not holding my breath.
Edit: Speaking of shield charge, do the Maraketh 1H mace implicits (4-6% increased Attack Speed) impact how Shield Charge works these days, or are you best holding out for the Driftwood/Spiked Club's higher base APS for crafting an "enemies explode" statstick?
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Regarding skills to use with coc, it was either shield charge, cyclone or molten strike. Honestly, Cospris only real strength over another weapon is it's inbuilt coc mechanic allowing you to use shield charge and cyclone. If the item isn't buffed I'm predicting that weapon swaps at a boss will be a thing people do an awful lot more.
On December 05 2018 04:42 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2018 02:35 ThaddeusK wrote:
Been awhile since the CoC gem was actually used, but as I remember it cyclone was pretty much always used and whirling blades was just used to get around. Well, Shield Charge was shit for most of the time CoC was good, if I remember correctly there was only one or 2 leagues where both were good (the height of CoC Discharge). Wasn't that the Gorge meta?
Strand, and it was for 2 patches with cospris and discharge both un-nerfed.
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EPT
