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On January 20 2017 02:51 ThaddeusK wrote:
They don't get credit for fixing desync because desync should never have existed in the first place, fixing it was the bare minimum, they can't advertise it because it's saying "hey, after 3 years of taking your money we are now as good as literally every other game in existance".
maybe, but what started as a small 5 man studio writing netcode for tens of thousands of concurrent clients on internet connections that vary from gigabit to practially dialup, their job wasn't easy. i give them credit for fixing desync, even if their stance on it was retarded for a very long time.
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On January 20 2017 02:52 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 02:28 Sn0_Man wrote:I think it's safe to say that we'll never see another breach league  actually i hate breach as a mechanic it's awful but the fact that the design space will be taken away still makes me sad wonder if the funny 1week flashback events will keep showing up on PC when they probably couldn't run them on xb1 also wonder if flasks are going to be even more op because they will end up even slightly balanced with 4 in mind instead of 5 (this might have something to do with how flasks are currently balanced tbh) I think Breach was overkill anyway, but it was fun. Given it's a completely different server with probably other drop rates, it's completely possible that there will be another similar league. It's not like they can't make it spawn less monsters on the Xbox One server.
But then it will be mightily difficult to balance the two platforms separately due to resource constraint, and the 2 platforms do need separate balance.
Like for the scenario you mentioned, less drop = less gear power creep = skills & passive power level need to become better to compensate in some way in the XB1 version.
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On January 20 2017 02:54 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 02:51 ThaddeusK wrote:
They don't get credit for fixing desync because desync should never have existed in the first place, fixing it was the bare minimum, they can't advertise it because it's saying "hey, after 3 years of taking your money we are now as good as literally every other game in existance". maybe, but what started as a small 5 man studio writing netcode for tens of thousands of concurrent clients on internet connections that vary from gigabit to practially dialup, their job wasn't easy. i give them credit for fixing desync, even if their stance on it was retarded for a very long time.
I loved the game with desync, I loved with more without. I think getting rid of it was a huge achievement on GGGs part.
What leaves a sour taste in my mouth is that since over a year every dollar spent went to a project at least I would have never supported.
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On January 20 2017 02:51 ThaddeusK wrote:
They don't get credit for fixing desync because desync should never have existed in the first place, fixing it was the bare minimum, they can't advertise it because it's saying "hey, after 3 years of taking your money we are now as good as literally every other game in existance".
It should because it did. With the size and talent of the team of original developers we got desync. And no, not every other game in existence has perfect netcode. Most don't even have good netcode. Especially games doing anything half as ambitious as PoE. Especially in alpha.
If you didn't want to give them money for three years then don't fucking give them money for three years. How is this fucking complicated?
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On January 20 2017 03:00 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 02:54 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 20 2017 02:51 ThaddeusK wrote:
They don't get credit for fixing desync because desync should never have existed in the first place, fixing it was the bare minimum, they can't advertise it because it's saying "hey, after 3 years of taking your money we are now as good as literally every other game in existance". maybe, but what started as a small 5 man studio writing netcode for tens of thousands of concurrent clients on internet connections that vary from gigabit to practially dialup, their job wasn't easy. i give them credit for fixing desync, even if their stance on it was retarded for a very long time. I loved the game with desync, I loved with more without. I think getting rid of it was a huge achievement on GGGs part. What leaves a sour taste in my mouth is that since over a year every dollar spent went to a project at least I would have never supported.
"Every dollar spent" is the kind of hyperbole that probably isn't helping
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On January 20 2017 02:56 vndestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 02:52 HolydaKing wrote:On January 20 2017 02:28 Sn0_Man wrote:I think it's safe to say that we'll never see another breach league actually i hate breach as a mechanic it's awful but the fact that the design space will be taken away still makes me sad wonder if the funny 1week flashback events will keep showing up on PC when they probably couldn't run them on xb1 also wonder if flasks are going to be even more op because they will end up even slightly balanced with 4 in mind instead of 5 (this might have something to do with how flasks are currently balanced tbh) I think Breach was overkill anyway, but it was fun. Given it's a completely different server with probably other drop rates, it's completely possible that there will be another similar league. It's not like they can't make it spawn less monsters on the Xbox One server. But then it will be mightily difficult to balance the two platforms separately due to resource constraint, and the 2 platforms do need separate balance. Like for the scenario you mentioned, less drop = less gear power creep = skills & passive power level need to become better to compensate in some way in the XB1 version.
Yes, that's true. One less flask already makes a difference and I bet there are more, even bigger differences that make a different balancing needed.
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On January 20 2017 03:02 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 03:00 r.Evo wrote:On January 20 2017 02:54 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 20 2017 02:51 ThaddeusK wrote:
They don't get credit for fixing desync because desync should never have existed in the first place, fixing it was the bare minimum, they can't advertise it because it's saying "hey, after 3 years of taking your money we are now as good as literally every other game in existance". maybe, but what started as a small 5 man studio writing netcode for tens of thousands of concurrent clients on internet connections that vary from gigabit to practially dialup, their job wasn't easy. i give them credit for fixing desync, even if their stance on it was retarded for a very long time. I loved the game with desync, I loved with more without. I think getting rid of it was a huge achievement on GGGs part. What leaves a sour taste in my mouth is that since over a year every dollar spent went to a project at least I would have never supported. "Every dollar spent" is the kind of hyperbole that probably isn't helping
Sorry, I'm bad. In my head I wrote "some of every dollar spent" but then failed. My bad.
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The very idea that buying a disco Rhoa to walk next to your character because you like it, or even if it's because you wanted to 'support' GGG, makes them beholden to you for future spending is ridiculous.
If you bought mtx because you liked them or because you like GGG then good for you.
If you bought mtx so GGG would be obliged to structure their company around your needs and desires rather than their growth and profitability then I'm sorry but you might be actually real dumb for real and you need to sit down and think about what you're doing.
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On January 20 2017 03:08 Lachrymose wrote:
The very idea that buying a disco Rhoa to walk next to your character because you like it, or even if it's because you wanted to 'support' GGG, makes them beholden to you for future spending is ridiculous.
If you bought mtx because you liked them or because you like GGG then good for you.
If you bought mtx so GGG would be obliged to structure their company around your needs and desires rather than their growth and profitability then I'm sorry but you might be actually real dumb for real and you need to sit down and think about what you're doing.
Of course people buy products because they're happy to do so at a certain point in time, that doesn't mean that they can't feel bad when they find out the company did something with their money that they would have never supported in the first place.
Not sure what that attitude has to do with stupidity or obligation. I'd say it would be weirder to NOT feel bad when a company develops in a direction you don't approve of after you invested into them. Or worse in this case: While you're investing into them but without your knowledge.
At least I can very safely say if I knew about this plan I wouldn't have bought quite a few supporter packs over the last year.
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^I think Mors present Evo viewpoint pretty well (ignore the click bait title the vid itself is pretty well thought out).
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I am not going to watch a 15 minute video by Mors of all people for the faint hope that it will be a compelling argument that people are entitled to be entitled and therefore change my view.
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On January 20 2017 04:14 Lachrymose wrote:
I am not going to watch a 15 minute video by Mors of all people for the faint hope that it will be a compelling argument that people are entitled to be entitled and therefore change my view.
Not asking you to.
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On January 20 2017 03:08 Lachrymose wrote:
The very idea that buying a disco Rhoa to walk next to your character because you like it, or even if it's because you wanted to 'support' GGG, makes them beholden to you for future spending is ridiculous.
I don't think anyone in this thread has said such a thing.
On January 20 2017 04:14 Lachrymose wrote:
I am not going to watch a 15 minute video by Mors of all people for the faint hope that it will be a compelling argument that people are entitled to be entitled and therefore change my view.
The video actually explains a bit more deeply what Evo has been saying so maybe you'd understand his point of view.
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The amount of negativity and vitriol is honestly astounding. Chris has said the xbox version has been in the works since 2014. If you have overall been a fan of the past two years of PoE development there is not much to worry about. GGG has an amazing track reckord and nothing has changed in terms of leadership in the company. It's as if people lose their fucking minds as soons as someone says 'console'.
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On January 20 2017 05:07 solidbebe wrote:
The amount of negativity and vitriol is honestly astounding. Chris has said the xbox version has been in the works since 2014. If you have overall been a fan of the past two years of PoE development there is not much to worry about. GGG has an amazing track reckord and nothing has changed in terms of leadership in the company. It's as if people lose their fucking minds as soons as someone says 'console'.
Which is ok because consoles are the worst.
But honestly, not much has changed. People are complaining about everything, flaming and being hostile as fuck while GGG is one of the best companies for the players in the business. Of course it's correct to voice concerns but people should pay attention to the tone they are doing it in.
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On January 20 2017 03:55 vndestiny wrote:^I think Mors present Evo viewpoint pretty well (ignore the click bait title the vid itself is pretty well thought out). Yeah, that's definitely more thought out and eloquent than I put it.
On January 20 2017 05:22 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 05:07 solidbebe wrote:
The amount of negativity and vitriol is honestly astounding. Chris has said the xbox version has been in the works since 2014. If you have overall been a fan of the past two years of PoE development there is not much to worry about. GGG has an amazing track reckord and nothing has changed in terms of leadership in the company. It's as if people lose their fucking minds as soons as someone says 'console'. Which is ok because consoles are the worst. But honestly, not much has changed. People are complaining about everything, flaming and being hostile as fuck while GGG is one of the best companies for the players in the business. Of course it's correct to voice concerns but people should pay attention to the tone they are doing it in.
I think, Mors put this better than me, what irks me the most is not even feeling betrayed or anything but that this was done without any of our knowledge and is now being presented as a done deal. They withheld information (presumably because they knew the impact it might have on their overall income) and I consider that not ethically sound. We spent money to support GGG, to support what they are doing - and it turns out they did something entirely different that some people probably wouldn't have wanted to support or wanted to support differently.
That's really not the kind of communication or honesty I, at least most of the time, enjoyed from GGG.
For a company that is pretty much built on voluntary support in good faith that goes to "future expansions", "day to day costs", "content and server costs" the line "development of an xbox client" was missing.
Maybe I'm a bit too sensitive and overly dramatic here, but for me that fundamentally changes how I need to think about the company and whether I'd like to support it monetarily, even if the game is fun in itself.
What else will GGG spend resources on or change their minds about that's not in my interest as a consumer if they kept this under wraps for more than a year?
"Hey we still don't have X, Y or Z that would have been great for your personal PoE experience but we had this nice new game in development for 2 years now, isn't that great? Thanks for your continuous support of the product you enjoyed that made it possible for us to release something entirely different that you have no interest in using!"
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My policy of supporting f2p games is that I buy the products I actually want. As long as I get the stash tabs and the compendium I paid for I'm fine, if they wanna spend that money on hoes and blow that's their call.
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What if GGG announced, instead of the port, they were making a completely unrelated Xbox game? Would that only be okay with you if it was funded entirely by venture capital and not by Path of Exile?
It's tricky at first but you're saying all profits from Path of Exile should be reinvested in Path of Exile and that's the same as saying Path of Exile should not be profitable.
Do you take that attitude with any other company? If you bought Starcraft 2 did you expect 100% of that revenue to go toward Heart of the Swarm and not a dime toward Hearthstone or Heroes of the Storm or whatever else?
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I do think that it's important to make the distinction between GGG's F2P model where they brand things as "Supporter Packs" and put "Thank you so much for your support!" after their new microtransaction announcements, compared to a giant actiblizz company that churns out $60 game etc. They themselves make it out like our purchases are about supporting the game rather than really buying things. And realistically, when you sell $1000 supporter packs it's pretty clear that GGG aren't selling you something, they are accepting crowdfunding. Which was totally reasonable when they were a small studio trying to release a game that had a unique vision that they wanted the players to drive, not publishers.
Now, I'm really glad that GGG are profitable at this point, and I agree that at some point we can't complain if they spend their hard earned money on whatever they want. But at the same stage it does become a bit hard to swallow a "supporter" mindset when our microtransaction purchases aren't "supporting" the Path of Exile that we want to play. Or at least, not to the extent that they used to (100%)
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You have to be a little more realistic than that.
Success for PoE as a product is not breaking even. Supporting GGG in making PoE a successful product does not end at making PoE cover its own costs and development. Not going broke isn't the reward they're looking for.
Realistically they want to be profitable. Supporting them is supporting them to be profitable. Costs, development and profit. PoE keeping its head above water is not a long term plan. PoE giving them something they can point at and say "it's worth it" allows them to invest in PoE and themselves.
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EPT
