On September 14 2016 16:30 HolydaKing wrote: Yup, when you calculate gem dps you gotta look at the cast speed too. Ice Nova has 591.25 dps at lvl 20 and Vortex has 636.66 dps plus the DoT with smaller crit chance. I'll probably try Vortex at some point and see myself if it's noticeable.
You have to look at so much more. Vortex doesn't need faster casting or echo , the DoT is what deals most of your damage - the initial hit "just" procs EE and ignites(and the ignite damage also gets scaled by spell dmg modifier, so going low life is a HUGE boost).
Vortex is what Ice Nova should've been in the first place.
Eh, in your case it'd be more like Fire Nova. I don't doubt Vortex is much better DPS, but I'm not using Ice Nova for ST in the first place. I can also imagine Freezing Pulse is worse than Vortex for ST, but I'm enjoying my cold dmg. Freezing Pulse manages to Freeze most bosses I've faced until now for the most time, with not nearly perfect gear. Once that changes I might consider trying Pyre Vortex or something.
For now I'm more concerned about map clearing speed and fun, not yet about doing things like T15/T16 bosses for which Vortex is probably the best "cold" spell considering it's on of few skills that have been used to kill the Shaper.
edit: Also how would you use EE? Vortex with Pyre does fire dmg and the DoT stays cold dmg or what? That would mean the burn after the initial hit (which doesn't have to be a crit) would get reduced dmg too no?
On September 14 2016 18:14 HolydaKing wrote: Eh, in your case it'd be more like Fire Nova. I don't doubt Vortex is much better DPS, but I'm not using Ice Nova for ST in the first place. I can also imagine Freezing Pulse is worse than Vortex for ST, but I'm enjoying my cold dmg. Freezing Pulse manages to Freeze most bosses I've faced until now for the most time, with not nearly perfect gear. Once that changes I might consider trying Pyre Vortex or something.
For now I'm more concerned about map clearing speed and fun, not yet about doing things like T15/T16 bosses for which Vortex is probably the best "cold" spell considering it's on of few skills that have been used to kill the Shaper.
edit: Also how would you use EE? Vortex with Pyre does fire dmg and the DoT stays cold dmg or what? That would mean the burn after the initial hit (which doesn't have to be a crit) would get reduced dmg too no?
Yeah that's totally fine. I think the angle we're coming from is mostly to explain why Vortex is used and the recommendation to just keep one in reserve so you can play around with it later if you'd like to. That kind of option usually beats levelling another gem to vaal later unless you're 100% confident in what you're doing.
As for EE with Pyre, that's exactly how it works. There isn't really a way to convert any degen at all so those kinda builds use the EE for a 'free' -50% to cold res. If it crits the ignite would be fire damage too (since it's based off the initial hit which is now fire damage) but the cold DoT is what you're really worried about.
On September 14 2016 18:14 HolydaKing wrote: Eh, in your case it'd be more like Fire Nova. I don't doubt Vortex is much better DPS, but I'm not using Ice Nova for ST in the first place. I can also imagine Freezing Pulse is worse than Vortex for ST, but I'm enjoying my cold dmg. Freezing Pulse manages to Freeze most bosses I've faced until now for the most time, with not nearly perfect gear. Once that changes I might consider trying Pyre Vortex or something.
For now I'm more concerned about map clearing speed and fun, not yet about doing things like T15/T16 bosses for which Vortex is probably the best "cold" spell considering it's on of few skills that have been used to kill the Shaper.
edit: Also how would you use EE? Vortex with Pyre does fire dmg and the DoT stays cold dmg or what? That would mean the burn after the initial hit (which doesn't have to be a crit) would get reduced dmg too no?
Yeah that's totally fine. I think the angle we're coming from is mostly to explain why Vortex is used and the recommendation to just keep one in reserve so you can play around with it later if you'd like to. That kind of option usually beats levelling another gem to vaal later unless you're 100% confident in what you're doing.
As for EE with Pyre, that's exactly how it works. There isn't really a way to convert any degen at all so those kinda builds use the EE for a 'free' -50% to cold res. If it crits the ignite would be fire damage too (since it's based off the initial hit which is now fire damage) but the cold DoT is what you're really worried about.
Ok, that is cool but my Ice Nova Witch does not need to get close and does just cold damage and freezes everyone. I can easily maneuver around the battlefield due to noticeable bigger AoE. Vortex with fire damage and smaller AoE will leave you vulnerable all the time. These are not BV or SRS builds where you run around while those spells kill stuff. You need to stop and spam and live through that.
I think the point is that Vortex when geared and skilled right will one shot most stuff so it kinda doesn't need as much defense. The dmg on some videos I've seen looks pretty ridiculous at least. But yeah for now I like my Ice Nova one shotting the screen in T10 maps. But it obviously doesn't really cut it for bosses, unlike Vortex.
Anyone know how precinct boss works? Sometimes there's 1 rogue exile, sometimes 4. I'm not even sure if monster dmg buffs them(it shouldn't but what about boss damage?
I'm also very disappointed that burning ground is still not working and should be rolled over.
Idk, I had some FPS issues earlier with burning ground, restarted the game and it was fine... there are some FPS issues since the last mini patch (see Reddit) for many people.
Oh and afaik Monster damage buffs every monster on the map including exiles. Boss damage obviously buffs them too since they are bosses in this case (they also drop maps unlike normal exiles).
On September 14 2016 20:12 -Archangel- wrote: These are not BV or SRS builds where you run around while those spells kill stuff. You need to stop and spam and live through that.
Vortex is exactly that, you cast it usually once and then move on the next pack, the DoT will kill the pack for you.
Ok, but we are talking about a bow build here I didn't check Witch class forum as I assumed nobody there would be making a Bow build. EDIT: Also that is not a real build, just a theorycraft.
Btw the Ele Hit tooltip says I got 10k DPS when all my 5 PC are up. That tooltip does not count Ele hit elemental base damage. Can I assume that is good damage?
On September 14 2016 20:12 -Archangel- wrote: These are not BV or SRS builds where you run around while those spells kill stuff. You need to stop and spam and live through that.
Vortex is exactly that, you cast it usually once and then move on the next pack, the DoT will kill the pack for you.
I tried it, it has too low AoE. Maybe it somehow works better with Convert to Fire build. My Ice Nova Witch followed a build of a guy that claimed he clears maps super fast up to T10 (he never got a T11 map to drop for him). Also it is super cheap as it only needs one unique weapon that cost me 1 Alchemy :D
Build takes as many increased AoE as you can find and also has you use a Increased AoE support. I just swapped Ice Nova Gem for a quality Vortex gem and I killed shit slower as I could not reach all the groups I could reach before.
I'm playing around with Kitava's Thirst and it's really fun. My Ice Nova costs just over 100 mana and I'm currently using Frost Bomb, Frostbolt, Vortex and Freezing Pulse in Kitava's. It's probably not much if any better than before but it allows me to use Ice Nova against bosses fairly well, which is nice. Also don't need to cast Frost Bomb anymore which I often forgot and given I use Vaal Lightning Trap it's one action less to worry about.
My current setup is: 6S5L: Ele hit+Fas Att+Wea Ele Dmg+ PCoC + LMP and 1S Arctic Armor 5L: Blink Arrow+Faster Att+Ice Golem+Blind+Improved Minion Life 4L: HoI+HoT+Cast Curse on Hit+Poacher's Mark 4L: Cast on Damage Taken+Ice Wall+Increased Duration+Vaal Grace (Vaal spells don't work with CoDT so I just benefit from Increased Duration here) 4S2L: Spell Totem+Elemental Weakness and I keep a Improved Critical Damage gem here to level it up. One slot unused (well technically 2 since I can keep gems for level up in secondary weapons slot)
#1 I don't really know what I should put here. I was thinking about using my 5L for my HoI+HoT+Cast Curse on Hit+Innervate+some Curse to possible get some Onslaught from killing packs which might not work as HoI and HoT don't get to kill much atm :D (HoT is more useful at applying CCoH with its lightning over time effect).
#2 Also I was thinking about switching Poacher's Mark for Assassin Mark, then using Blood Rage and switch Power Charge from Crit to Improved Critical Damage.
I also use Victario's Acuity that gives me 10% chance per kill to generate FC or PC. It is not reliable enough on its own but helps with whatever other setup I got.
On September 14 2016 23:20 HolydaKing wrote: I'm playing around with Kitava's Thirst and it's really fun. My Ice Nova costs just over 100 mana and I'm currently using Frost Bomb, Frostbolt, Vortex and Freezing Pulse in Kitava's. It's probably not much if any better than before but it allows me to use Ice Nova against bosses fairly well, which is nice. Also don't need to cast Frost Bomb anymore which I often forgot and given I use Vaal Lightning Trap it's one action less to worry about.
How does that interact with the BM gem?
There was a quad curse BV build that used it, seemed cool.
Using PCoC but not Increased Critical Strike Chance looks like a bad idea. So do #2 but depending on the crit chance either dmg or crit chance gem, the later is extremely strong nowadays imo.
You can also get power charges with CWDT + PCoC + Blade Vortex (+Crit Chance) fairly well once you are close to enemies, but you likely rarely are so it's probably no big help.
edit: I'm not using Blood Magic gem. Afaik GGG also said that doesn't work.
EPT![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/raSLM/e327b41bae.jpg)
