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On March 09 2012 02:01 Maenander wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 23:01 mememolly wrote:On March 08 2012 20:58 Pandemona wrote:On March 08 2012 20:44 mememolly wrote:
the game was slower and players smoked and shit in pele's day, sure he was amazing for his time, but the game has evolved and messi would be like a super god if he played in pele's day and I doubt the pele of old would get far in today's game and its stupid to compare, but anyone who knows what they are talking about can see that messi is the best footballer ever, shame he'll never play in the EPL though Your basing that on theories! No one knows if Pele would ring circles around players of this day because its impossible to tell. I for one think if the 1st Division English teams from the 70s/80s player that of todays Premiership teams i would say Nottingham Forest Liverpool Everton Man Utd would be running circles round the Man Utd Chelsea Man City Arsenal of today due to muscles alone! But technically i think Pele and Maradonna are far far greater in there careers IN TOTAL than Messi right now, not to say Messi might not out do them, but Argentina have been woeful in world cups all through out the 00s and 2010s so far. I don't think he is anywhere near Pele's level internationally etiher on paper you have to agree with that, 4 world cups attended 3 tropheys bought home, Maradonna 1 world cup in the 3 he turned up too and he had awful players around him. I think Messi's underachievement at international level compared with Pele's is more to do with the fact that international football isn't taken as seriously anymore, it is often at the end of a long ass season where players are tired as fuck whereas back in the day they didn't play 60+ games in a year, Mouriniho said himself that the WC is second to the champions league. Messi performs at the highest level there is now, that is champions league football. International football is taken very seriously, especially in Argentina o_O And a club like Leverkusen is certainly not at the level of the top national football teams...
In europe the interest in international football is waning, you ask any fan on the terraces if they would want to win the league or champions or for their country to win the world cup and most will say the former
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On March 09 2012 00:01 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 23:51 mememolly wrote:On March 08 2012 23:39 Steveling wrote:I find it funny how the haters say that Messi is a god on barca cause of his teamates but blame only him in the national team. Messi is the best player to have ever graced the field. On March 08 2012 18:19 Tommylew wrote:
The premiership is so much more physical and also a lot higher overall standard. No, spain has much more quality. In fact I would rank the premiership 3rd right now under la liga and cambionato. Spain has two competitive teams, there was a 21 point gap between 2nd and 3rd last season, lol, hardly the best league in the world with that sort of competition, its also one of the reasons why EPL teams under perform sometimes in the champions league because the domestic league is so tough, you can't win 5-0 every week like you can in spain for real and barca, EPL is the hardest league in the world and is the proving ground for the best imo, Ronaldo did it but will Messi? doubt it Um, what? Pls someone confirm that this guy is trolling.
Messi would definitely be as productive as Ronaldo in the EPL, just like David Silva but better...but there is no doubt that he would need to be slotted into a team like Man City, who has a lot of very strong physical players to be enforcers and protect him/ supply him. I have no doubt whatsoever that if the EPL and Liga BBVA had to have bo5 matches between 1st position v 1st position, 2nd v 2nd and so on, EPL would win something like 15-5. Competition level massively drops off in Liga BBVA when you go down the ranks. For example, how many teams in BBVA have players that are star players and could cope well in the top teams? If you exclude Bilbao, Atletico and Valencia...maybe Villareal...really not that many. THere are massive quality players in the teams below Man City and Utd...Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Everton, Fulham, Swansea, Stoke, West Brom. If you think that Valencia, Levante, Bilbao, Malaga, Osasuna, Vallencano, Atletico can compete with that....meh you're off your rocker.
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On March 09 2012 00:20 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 00:17 dmnum wrote:
The brazilian league is probably the hardest national league. Not the highest level of play, but it's the closest league in the world. In the last 10 years we've had 6 different champions, and in the last two years three teams had a chance of taking the championship in the last round. It's not as good technically as the european leagues, but it's damn exciting. Dont bring yourself down too much, i would say (without watching much) your football league would be best games to watch technically? Im sure all teams play football and pure football? Nice passing great goals, awesome skill? Santos is world wide known for there production of talent and always scouts there, id love to watch Neymar week and week out as well.
Also this is, how do they say it uhh,, Balderdash ? Brazil is just ok, same for Argentina. Its a tier around France at best. Theres alot of flair not so much in the amount of substance compared to europe. Money is obviously the main reason, the talent is all there.
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On March 09 2012 02:42 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 02:01 Maenander wrote:On March 08 2012 23:01 mememolly wrote:On March 08 2012 20:58 Pandemona wrote:On March 08 2012 20:44 mememolly wrote:
the game was slower and players smoked and shit in pele's day, sure he was amazing for his time, but the game has evolved and messi would be like a super god if he played in pele's day and I doubt the pele of old would get far in today's game and its stupid to compare, but anyone who knows what they are talking about can see that messi is the best footballer ever, shame he'll never play in the EPL though Your basing that on theories! No one knows if Pele would ring circles around players of this day because its impossible to tell. I for one think if the 1st Division English teams from the 70s/80s player that of todays Premiership teams i would say Nottingham Forest Liverpool Everton Man Utd would be running circles round the Man Utd Chelsea Man City Arsenal of today due to muscles alone! But technically i think Pele and Maradonna are far far greater in there careers IN TOTAL than Messi right now, not to say Messi might not out do them, but Argentina have been woeful in world cups all through out the 00s and 2010s so far. I don't think he is anywhere near Pele's level internationally etiher on paper you have to agree with that, 4 world cups attended 3 tropheys bought home, Maradonna 1 world cup in the 3 he turned up too and he had awful players around him. I think Messi's underachievement at international level compared with Pele's is more to do with the fact that international football isn't taken as seriously anymore, it is often at the end of a long ass season where players are tired as fuck whereas back in the day they didn't play 60+ games in a year, Mouriniho said himself that the WC is second to the champions league. Messi performs at the highest level there is now, that is champions league football. International football is taken very seriously, especially in Argentina o_O And a club like Leverkusen is certainly not at the level of the top national football teams... In europe the interest in international football is waning, you ask any fan on the terraces if they would want to win the league or champions or for their country to win the world cup and most will say the former
You sure about that? Personally i can't name a single person who prefers a CL win over the world cup
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Totti has said he'd think winning CL with Roma would be bigger to him than winning the WC with Italy, but he's a special case.  Most players would indeed choose the WC over CL, hands down.
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It's without a doubt the highest you can get in football. just look at it 
![[image loading]](http://www.maracanazo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/world-cup-trophy11.png)
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Three out of three people here defending the premiership are english. Hmmm, hi bias, how are you?
Nevertheless I will address your points one by one.
1)Messi needs bulgy midfielders to protect him?
Please tell me in which game against english teams did he need protection?(rofl)
I watched him rip through Man.U two times, Chelsea one time and Arsenal another two times. And it's not that they didn't try to dominate him with physical game, it's that they couldn't. So please get rid of this myth.
2)You have mistaken quality with equality. Having more contesters for a trophy doesn't make the contest more illustrious if the teams are just equally weak.
And for the past decade we have come to know that all english teams are two steps below from Barcelona(both with Rony and now with Messi).
If you don't think so then I'll tell you that the Greek championship atm has Olympiakos and Panathinaikos both at the top with the same points, so guess what, lets dub that as the best league since it's so competitive right ?!
I hope you get my point.
If you are one of those chaps that believe Messi( or every other player for that matter) need to prove his mettle in a rainy match against Stoke I have nothing else to say.
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On March 09 2012 03:12 Holgerius wrote:Totti has said he'd think winning CL with Roma would be bigger to him than winning the WC with Italy, but he's a special case. Most players would indeed choose the WC over CL, hands down.
Did you recover from the derby defeat yet? A good season for Lazio
And I really like Totti but I can't help rooting for Klose. I don't even like Lazio 
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On March 09 2012 03:27 Steveling wrote:
1)Messi needs bulgy midfielders to protect him?
Please tell me in which game against english teams did he need protection?(rofl)
I watched him rip through Man.U two times, Chelsea one time and Arsenal another two times. And it's not that they didn't try to dominate him with physical game, it's that they couldn't. So please get rid of this myth.
You are completely missing the point. These are single matches against teams that aren't particularly dirty or physical in the EPL. Play 38 games in the EPL and then you will see what we are talking about...the physicality of the players is much much greater than in Liga BBVA. In Spain the most physicality you get is from players like Pepe and Puyol. This is nothing compared to the strength and physicality of many many players in the EPL. That's why we have a lot of Africans like Ba, Drogba, Cisse, Toure, Mikel, Essien, Song, Yakubu etcetc (although it is clearly also because Spain is full of racists haha). YOu need to be rugged and every team needs to have strength to survive the EPL. Barcelona have been battered this season in Liga BBVA...they are losing it basically because in several games they have been bossed around and they have been injured. They got completely battered against I think it was Osasuna maybe a month ago in the rain. They were lucky to escape with a draw. That would happen 10+ times in the EPL. Look at what happened to Arsenal this league, they lost about 8 players due to injury.
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On March 09 2012 03:27 Steveling wrote:
2)You have mistaken quality with equality. Having more contesters for a trophy doesn't make the contest more illustrious if the teams are just equally weak.
Right, but I actually watch BBVA and EPL...as much as I can...and I guarantee the quality of the lower teams in Liga BBVA is worse than EPL. Like I said before, if there were a contest between 1st v 1st, 2nd vs 2nd, 3rd vs 3rd, EPL would win 15-5. The defending in many BBVA teams is a complete embarrassment.
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Sporting is dominating Manchester City right now. I'm not a Sporting fan but I am very impressed by their play tonight.
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Who cares about the bottom of the leagues. It's the ceiling that gives credit to a league.
Barcelona and Real are much better than Chelsea/Man.C/Man.U/Arsenal therefore la liga is a better league.
And the argument that Barcelona would have trouble winning the like of Stoke is getting ridiculous.
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On March 09 2012 04:40 Steveling wrote:
Who cares about the bottom of the leagues. It's the ceiling that gives credit to a league.
Barcelona and Real are much better than Chelsea/Man.C/Man.U/Arsenal therefore la liga is a better league.
Fine, ignore the bottom of the league. Top 10 EPL v Top 10 La liga. EPL wins. If you are literally saying all that matters is the very top 2 clubs of the league...then you are weird and boring person who likes only 10% of the league's games to be interesting. EPL games are exciting far more regularly than BBVA. Also, Serie A > La liga along the same grounds, so I'm not being biased towards England.
Congrats to Sporting...they have played some good football against Man City who don't seem to have managed to get it going...I think Man City will win at home 3-1.
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On March 09 2012 04:07 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 03:27 Steveling wrote:
1)Messi needs bulgy midfielders to protect him?
Please tell me in which game against english teams did he need protection?(rofl)
I watched him rip through Man.U two times, Chelsea one time and Arsenal another two times. And it's not that they didn't try to dominate him with physical game, it's that they couldn't. So please get rid of this myth.
You are completely missing the point. These are single matches against teams that aren't particularly dirty or physical in the EPL. Play 38 games in the EPL and then you will see what we are talking about...the physicality of the players is much much greater than in Liga BBVA. In Spain the most physicality you get is from players like Pepe and Puyol. This is nothing compared to the strength and physicality of many many players in the EPL. That's why we have a lot of Africans like Ba, Drogba, Cisse, Toure, Mikel, Essien, Song, Yakubu etcetc (although it is clearly also because Spain is full of racists haha). YOu need to be rugged and every team needs to have strength to survive the EPL. Barcelona have been battered this season in Liga BBVA...they are losing it basically because in several games they have been bossed around and they have been injured. They got completely battered against I think it was Osasuna maybe a month ago in the rain. They were lucky to escape with a draw. That would happen 10+ times in the EPL. Look at what happened to Arsenal this league, they lost about 8 players due to injury.
I get your point, but you're sadly wrong.
Silva was a big name in Valencia, but was overshadowed by Real and Barca players. Now in MC is the best player in the team, and prolly top 5 in EPL (i LOVE his game). And Messi is so much better than him. No offense, but your're kinda blind with the EPL. I agree that is a much better league overall than the BBVA, but Real and Barca are much better teams than M.Utd., Chelsea, City or any other. And please, please, watch any Barca vs Madrid of the last 2 years, once barca starts his 1/2 touch game, any of those bulky guys (that btw are used to mark the mediocre technique/passing in the mid tier teams of the EPL) are going to get nuts with this ballon d'or players.
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How can you say you get my point but am wrong...if my point was that the EPL is overall better than BBVA...and you yourself said "I agree that is a much better league overall than the BBVA".
I actually agree with all your other points, although seriously, don't underestimate how grinding the EPL is on teams. Barcelona have been really damaged by injuries, but it is nothing like what would happen to them in the EPL. Of course they would be extremely likely to win the EPL but don't think they wouldn't get points taken off them or be far more challenged than they are in BBVA.
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EPL has a better distribution of talent. While BBVA is a two horse every season. Also, it doesn't help that all the other teams in the BBVA are broke or in debt and keep getting poached by EPL teams.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On March 09 2012 03:00 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 02:42 mememolly wrote:On March 09 2012 02:01 Maenander wrote:On March 08 2012 23:01 mememolly wrote:On March 08 2012 20:58 Pandemona wrote:On March 08 2012 20:44 mememolly wrote:
the game was slower and players smoked and shit in pele's day, sure he was amazing for his time, but the game has evolved and messi would be like a super god if he played in pele's day and I doubt the pele of old would get far in today's game and its stupid to compare, but anyone who knows what they are talking about can see that messi is the best footballer ever, shame he'll never play in the EPL though Your basing that on theories! No one knows if Pele would ring circles around players of this day because its impossible to tell. I for one think if the 1st Division English teams from the 70s/80s player that of todays Premiership teams i would say Nottingham Forest Liverpool Everton Man Utd would be running circles round the Man Utd Chelsea Man City Arsenal of today due to muscles alone! But technically i think Pele and Maradonna are far far greater in there careers IN TOTAL than Messi right now, not to say Messi might not out do them, but Argentina have been woeful in world cups all through out the 00s and 2010s so far. I don't think he is anywhere near Pele's level internationally etiher on paper you have to agree with that, 4 world cups attended 3 tropheys bought home, Maradonna 1 world cup in the 3 he turned up too and he had awful players around him. I think Messi's underachievement at international level compared with Pele's is more to do with the fact that international football isn't taken as seriously anymore, it is often at the end of a long ass season where players are tired as fuck whereas back in the day they didn't play 60+ games in a year, Mouriniho said himself that the WC is second to the champions league. Messi performs at the highest level there is now, that is champions league football. International football is taken very seriously, especially in Argentina o_O And a club like Leverkusen is certainly not at the level of the top national football teams... In europe the interest in international football is waning, you ask any fan on the terraces if they would want to win the league or champions or for their country to win the world cup and most will say the former You sure about that? Personally i can't name a single person who prefers a CL win over the world cup
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15064023
Sir Alex Ferguson. WCs are only valued so high because of its intermittency, global scale, and nationalistic appeal. In terms of pure football, it's not the toughest competition or the most entertaining spectacle. Don't get me wrong, I still love every minute of it, but people blindly saying it's the pinnacle of professional football just annoys me.
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On March 09 2012 05:32 Timurid wrote:
EPL has a better distribution of talent. While BBVA is a two horse every season. Also, it doesn't help that all the other teams in the BBVA are broke or in debt and keep getting poached by EPL teams.
EPL is full of debts itself and Spain has plenty of talent and not just in the 2 top teams...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/15064023
Sir Alex Ferguson.
I was talking about regular people not people in the football business.
Besides that the article only says the Ferguson thinks CL is the toughest competition and that's something I agree with but the world cup still has more prestige to it and it's more difficult to win since it's only once in 4 years and not yearly like the CL.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
So tell me, why does Messi need to prove anything to anyone after dominating the toughest competition in the world for 4 years in a row?
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anybody watching united-bilbao?
llorente and co are playing very well.
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EPT
