EPT2011-2012 football (soccer) thread - Page 203
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
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mememolly
4765 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:58 Pandemona wrote: Your basing that on theories! No one knows if Pele would ring circles around players of this day because its impossible to tell. I for one think if the 1st Division English teams from the 70s/80s player that of todays Premiership teams i would say Nottingham Forest Liverpool Everton Man Utd would be running circles round the Man Utd Chelsea Man City Arsenal of today due to muscles alone! But technically i think Pele and Maradonna are far far greater in there careers IN TOTAL than Messi right now, not to say Messi might not out do them, but Argentina have been woeful in world cups all through out the 00s and 2010s so far. I don't think he is anywhere near Pele's level internationally etiher on paper you have to agree with that, 4 world cups attended 3 tropheys bought home, Maradonna 1 world cup in the 3 he turned up too and he had awful players around him. I think Messi's underachievement at international level compared with Pele's is more to do with the fact that international football isn't taken as seriously anymore, it is often at the end of a long ass season where players are tired as fuck whereas back in the day they didn't play 60+ games in a year, Mouriniho said himself that the WC is second to the champions league. Messi performs at the highest level there is now, that is champions league football. | ||
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:01 mememolly wrote: I think Messi's underachievement at international level compared with Pele's is more to do with the fact that international football isn't taken as seriously anymore, it is often at the end of a long ass season where players are tired as fuck whereas back in the day they didn't play 60+ games in a year, Mouriniho said himself that the WC is second to the champions league. Messi performs at the highest level there is now, that is champions league football. Hmmm, i hope thats not the case though international level being downgraded past european footballs top competition. Just because in the sense of Argentina Brazil Italy England Germany Spain Holland are probably the biggest footballing nations? And have really good squads on paper but aren't judged by that? Just judged on the teams they have in the Champions League, well Argentina and Brazil will never be able to change that either. Unless they win the Club World cup competition but that is floored played midway through the season on the other side of the world. I still think International football is the pinnacle of football and it cannot be said otherwise (or shouldn't atleast) I understand your point about the amount of games played as of today then going into a world cup, but none of these guys are overweight/alcoholics or drug users like back in Pele/Maradonna's era they have diets fitness training and all sorts going on unlike back in the day. Pitches football boots footballs themselves all so good and much better than back in the 60/70/80s without them all being on the pitch the same time all in there primes i dont think you can ever compare them and say HE IS THE BEST EVER PLAYER. I think you just have to always say, he is the best player of this era and to be honest Pele Maradonna and Messi will all hold that title of there era's. I remember when Pele said that he wasn't the greatest player of his era and that George Best was? That shocked me as i didn't rate Best anywhere near Pele but he did and that is the best achievement you could ever ask for in my opinion, when a world class top proffesional says your the best player of an era! | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Messi is the best player to have ever graced the field. On March 08 2012 18:19 Tommylew wrote: The premiership is so much more physical and also a lot higher overall standard. No, spain has much more quality. In fact I would rank the premiership 3rd right now under la liga and cambionato. | ||
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mememolly
4765 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:39 Steveling wrote: I find it funny how the haters say that Messi is a god on barca cause of his teamates but blame only him in the national team. Messi is the best player to have ever graced the field. No, spain has much more quality. In fact I would rank the premiership 3rd right now under la liga and cambionato. Spain has two competitive teams, there was a 21 point gap between 2nd and 3rd last season, lol, hardly the best league in the world with that sort of competition, its also one of the reasons why EPL teams under perform sometimes in the champions league because the domestic league is so tough, you can't win 5-0 every week like you can in spain for real and barca, EPL is the hardest league in the world and is the proving ground for the best imo, Ronaldo did it but will Messi? doubt it | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:51 mememolly wrote: Spain has two competitive teams, there was a 21 point gap between 2nd and 3rd last season, lol, hardly the best league in the world with that sort of competition, its also one of the reasons why EPL teams under perform sometimes in the champions league because the domestic league is so tough, you can't win 5-0 every week like you can in spain for real and barca, EPL is the hardest league in the world and is the proving ground for the best imo, Ronaldo did it but will Messi? doubt it Um, what? Pls someone confirm that this guy is trolling. | ||
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dmnum
Brazil6910 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:17 dmnum wrote: The brazilian league is probably the hardest national league. Not the highest level of play, but it's the closest league in the world. In the last 10 years we've had 6 different champions, and in the last two years three teams had a chance of taking the championship in the last round. It's not as good technically as the european leagues, but it's damn exciting. Dont bring yourself down too much, i would say (without watching much) your football league would be best games to watch technically? Im sure all teams play football and pure football? Nice passing great goals, awesome skill? Santos is world wide known for there production of talent and always scouts there, id love to watch Neymar week and week out as well. | ||
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Zexion
Sweden971 Posts
On March 08 2012 19:46 Salteador Neo wrote: Oh Barça haters, where are you hiding now? :D I need more Ref complaints to make my day. This doesn't make any sense. Messi scored 5 goals, what does it have to do with referees? It's not like that people hate Barca because they think they are bad? | ||
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mememolly
4765 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:01 Steveling wrote: Um, what? Pls someone confirm that this guy is trolling. so someone is "trolling" when you can't address their opinion? either answer some of things I stated or say nothing, but don't just call trolling when you can't answer the points at hand | ||
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dmnum
Brazil6910 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:20 Pandemona wrote: Dont bring yourself down too much, i would say (without watching much) your football league would be best games to watch technically? Im sure all teams play football and pure football? Nice passing great goals, awesome skill? Santos is world wide known for there production of talent and always scouts there, id love to watch Neymar week and week out as well. Some games are awesome(ie: last year flamengo x santos, santos started 3x0 and it ended 5x4 for flamengo), some games are not so good, just like everywhere else. But the overall quality of play is lower than europe. edit: video of the game I cited above | ||
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Enchanted
United States1609 Posts
On March 09 2012 01:34 dmnum wrote: Some games are awesome(ie: last year flamengo x santos, santos started 3x0 and it ended 5x4 for flamengo), some games are not so good, just like everywhere else. But the overall quality of play is lower than europe. edit: video of the game I cited above http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Iv2osssS2k This video reminds me of why I'll always love watching Ronaldinho more then anyone else. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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NuclearJudas
6546 Posts
On March 09 2012 00:17 dmnum wrote: The brazilian league is probably the hardest national league. Not the highest level of play, but it's the closest league in the world. In the last 10 years we've had 6 different champions, and in the last two years three teams had a chance of taking the championship in the last round. It's not as good technically as the european leagues, but it's damn exciting. Sweden: 7 Different champions last 7 seasons. We're usually pretty garbage when it comes to international play (read champions league/Euro league), but there's always a big degree of unpredictability when the season starts. As for the best, I'd have to say (English) Premier League. La Liga is too heavily dominated by Real and Barcelona, imo. | ||
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Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
On March 08 2012 23:01 mememolly wrote: I think Messi's underachievement at international level compared with Pele's is more to do with the fact that international football isn't taken as seriously anymore, it is often at the end of a long ass season where players are tired as fuck whereas back in the day they didn't play 60+ games in a year, Mouriniho said himself that the WC is second to the champions league. Messi performs at the highest level there is now, that is champions league football. International football is taken very seriously, especially in Argentina o_O And a club like Leverkusen is certainly not at the level of the top national football teams... | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
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RealQ
1120 Posts
1. England 2. Spain 3. Italy 4. Germany 5. France 6. Portugal 7. Russia 8. Netherlands 9. Ukraine these are the biggest leagues in europe. from 9. and so on it becomes pretty bad. | ||
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mememolly
4765 Posts
yeah if you forget arsenal, liverpool, chelsea, spurs and even man city have only become a top club in the last two years | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On March 08 2012 18:39 Tazza wrote: I think a lot of people are caught in the prisoner of the moment here. Yes, messi is fantastic. I'd put him miles ahead of any other player in the world right now. He is the best in the world right now, and i don't think anyone, not ronaldo is close. But, let's remember what pele and maradonna did. pele won 3 world cups, went to four, albeit with a stacked team. but that kind of consistency for that long a period of time is nearly impossible to do. maradonna, pretty much won the world cup himself without a stacked team. remember, messi is playing with arguably the two greatest midfielders in the game's history. i actually think xavi is the best passer of all time. That definitely plays a lot into messi's greatness. I'm just saying, he's only 24 years old. Let's not crown him yet. We're all caught up in the prisoner of the moment. Yea exactly, Pele went to 3 world cups with a team so stacked it wouldve ripped everyone to shreds with or without him, (although in fairness they had teams capable of doing that after him and never won). The 1958 World Cup where he did burst onto the scene was an absolute joke. They thrashed everyone and That having been said considering Pele missed half the games in those world cups (roughly), The likes of Garrincha, Vava, Zagallo didnt just play well they put up the numbers. Pele was an accumulator in most of those games, thats why even the discussion of Maradonna being just as good comes into question because he practically put a team on his back and did it. Not quite so for Pele, he just managed to win alot of them and basically showed up to polish of people. There are ofcourse exceptions but the level of his contributions alot of the time was pretty much fluff. And dont even get me started on how little the 1970's team needed him. The fact that those same teams failed to win later on while being just as good weighs into it aswell, and maybe there is something to it, Ive personally only seen lengthy highlights, that my dad had on VHS. A little bit of persepective is required here. The only thing he was genuinely consistent at was pummeling the Brazillian league for Santos. the Pele's and the Maradonna's didnt have thefacilities we have today. Have you noticed the level of defending from those times. Defenders were getting caught square left and right, all you needed was a bit of pace and some decent control to beat people. Go do it youself analyze clips if you will and then tell me that Stuart Downing couldnt do it better without having to keep a straight face. Its just the evolution of the game. Messi is just better thats that, different eras or what not is a silly thing to say, tough luck for Pele or Maradonna to not have been born in recent times.Maybe there will be some better than Messi to. Its not apples to oranges, the game is better now, the players are better now... see where Im going with this ? Ofc achievement ties into it. I dont think people value the World Cup like they used to, unless theyre country is winning it anyway. The only effective value of the wolrd cup is making people who usually dont give a shit about football do so. Other than that frankly the Euro's are better competition. More quality, higher standard etc etc. And even back in Pele's day it was what 16 teams of note probably better for the game tbh. Dont get me wrong its still the "World Cup". But how it bears into how good a player is isnt really all that anymore. It did before thats why the likes of Platini or Cruyff or even a Van Basten dont enter the discussion. But I think people have realised how much harder it is to perform in these times than it was back then, even if you have the facilities the amount of hard work involved is ridiculously higher, talent aside. On March 09 2012 01:55 Sated wrote: The Spanish league is like the Scottish league on steroids. Two clubs, nothing else. + Show Spoiler + The only reason the Scottish league looks close for 2nd/3rd is because Rangers were docked 10 points... and they're still 2nd! O just like England then the past few years. (look at that ignorant comments, I can do it to). Its just the clubs involve changed based on foriegn cash injections. O and then theres Manchester United. The premier league is simply more competitive. How that translates to quality is absolutely beyond me but whatever. I already handed that dude whats his name calling England the dominators of europe his ass making the same silly arguement. But yes across certain spreads it is a better league. Others not so much. | ||
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