EPT2011-2012 football (soccer) thread - Page 201
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mememolly
4765 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
who was Bayer's keeper and where was Rene Adler? He let in some pretty soft ones from Tello. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:26 dmnum wrote: pele has 3 world cups and stuff, so I wouldnt say that messi is better than him yet. But if messi keeps this kinds of performances up, he is going to be the best of all time IMO People keep bringing up this World Cup issue, but why does winning it count more than the Champions League for one? Isn't it harder to perform incredibly for your club, as consistently as Messi has done? People say Messi wouldn't be as good without this Barca team, but that applies to Pele as well with his Brazil squad. Is it the opposition? I can safely assume that CLs of today is a tougher competition than WCs of Pele's time. I'm not knocking Pele's achievements, but this ridiculous notion that doing well in WCs is the pinnacle of professional football has got to go. It might hold more value in people's hearts & minds since it only occurs every 4 years, but that doesn't mean it's the toughest competition out there. | ||
Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
He's breaking records every day. Winning a World Cup doesn't mean anything when talking about a players' skill. In the past, the level of play was very low so players with great individual skill could win a game on their own. That just doesn't happen anymore. The average level of skill of every footballer has gone up so much that the difference is less big between the top guys and the subtop but Messi still outshines everyone. The time where one player can win a world cup is over, sorry. You need a great team to back you up and Messi doesn't have one right now with Argentina. Maybe at the WC 2016 they'll have adequate defenders. | ||
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Raidern
Brazil3811 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:55 Telcontar wrote: People keep bringing up this World Cup issue, but why does winning it count more than the Champions League for one? Isn't it harder to perform incredibly for your club, as consistently as Messi has done? People say Messi wouldn't be as good without this Barca team, but that applies to Pele as well with his Brazil squad. Is it the opposition? I can safely assume that CLs of today is a tougher competition than WCs of Pele's time. I'm not knocking Pele's achievements, but this ridiculous notion that doing well in WCs is the pinnacle of professional football has got to go. It might hold more value in people's hearts & minds since it only occurs every 4 years, but that doesn't mean it's the toughest competition out there. I agree it's ridiculous put 'downgrade' Messi's achievements because he still didn't win a world cup. Actually I hope he never does, but that doesn't stop me from believing that he's the best player ever. It's just as ridiculous as saying "Pele scored 1200 goals, how many did Messi score?", because: 1, Pele didn't score even 800 official goals. 2, Pele's numbers account for his whole career while Messi still has some good years of high level football left. 3. Saying some player is better than the other because he scored more goals is just retarded. | ||
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aseq
Netherlands4000 Posts
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graan
Germany589 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:38 zulu_nation8 wrote: no he doesnt.. who was Bayer's keeper and where was Rene Adler? He let in some pretty soft ones from Tello. Adler had problems with his patellar tendon from the start of this season, Leno was borrowed from VfB Stuttgart to substitute for Adler in the first half of the season. After his great perfomance Leverkusen sealed the deal for, speculated, ~8 mio Euros and Adler, still injurey, is most likely transfered to Hamburg in the summer. Leno was the worst pig today ( think that saying doenst work in english ?!  ), when ur team plays like this against probably the best team in the world you just cant look good as a goali - of course there are exceptions ( neuer last year against manu for example.. ). | ||
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Enchanted
United States1609 Posts
On March 08 2012 10:09 Raidern wrote: I agree it's ridiculous put 'downgrade' Messi's achievements because he still didn't win a world cup. Actually I hope he never does, but that doesn't stop me from believing that he's the best player ever. It's just as ridiculous as saying "Pele scored 1200 goals, how many did Messi score?", because: 1, Pele didn't score even 800 official goals. 2, Pele's numbers account for his whole career while Messi still has some good years of high level football left. 3. Saying some player is better than the other because he scored more goals is just retarded. If you compare two forward positions goals are pretty important because guess what, goals are what win you the game. Winning the champions league for your club is good, but if you're playing with people like xavi and iniesta it makes it easier for you because on club you can have so many great players from different countries or just buy the best talent there is and make the best team. Playing for your country and winning a world cup means so much more, it's about what you can do in world cups that defines you in histories eyes. Maybe it shouldn't be that way but it is, and Messi himself has said he would trade two champions league wins for a world cup, it's just more important. | ||
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Raidern
Brazil3811 Posts
On March 08 2012 10:16 Megatronn wrote: If you compare two forward positions goals are pretty important because guess what, goals are what win you the game. Winning the champions league for your club is good, but if you're playing with people like xavi and iniesta it makes it easier for you because on club you can have so many great players from different countries or just buy the best talent there is and make the best team. Playing for your country and winning a world cup means so much more, it's about what you can do in world cups that defines you in histories eyes. Maybe it shouldn't be that way but it is, and Messi himself has said he would trade two champions league wins for a world cup, it's just more important. Yea too bad every time Pele won a world cup he had a dream team to back him up. Every single player who was a part of those Brazilian teams became legends in their clubs. I can say 20 names off the top of my head from those teams (1958 and 1970). It's stupid to compare players based on number of goals because some players are specialists at pushing the ball in. Romario scored 400 more official goals than Ronaldo, but a lot of these goals were in irrelevant teams in irrelevant situations. I personally like Romario more but I believe most people would pick Ronaldo if they had to chose one of them as the better player. They were both strikers. Actually I have no shadow of a doubt that Ronaldo was a better player, I just happen to like Romario more because he's a hero. If you care to look for, I'm sure there are several other cases where players who scored less goals are in fact much better than players who scored more, even if they play in the same position. It's okay if you think Eusebio > CRonaldo, but I would think you are crazy though  I don't think the world cup is more important than the champions league. It's more meaningful to some players because it involves patriotism and maybe because they grew up hearing stories about legendary players. There's no question that national teams had a lot more importance 30 years ago than they do now. -edit just a quick p.s. I think Messi is a better player than Pele or anyone else. I don't think he's greater than Pele though. | ||
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Raidern
Brazil3811 Posts
You can watch it in the link below Goals at: 00:01 1:24 2:39 | ||
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Copymizer
Denmark2107 Posts
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
At the same time though, it's pretty obvious that playing with Barcelona's midfield on a team led by Pep Guardiola is going to drastically inflate his performances. In that case Messi gets way more accolades than he should and his brilliant teammates get comparatively neglected. So I guess he gets both the best and worst of these situations, in each case the praise or negativity being too extreme. On March 08 2012 08:51 Holgerius wrote: ''Best player ever'' is IMO still a pretty silly statement about a 24 year old. Yeah Ronaldo was in this exact position when he was 24. Best forward in the world, amazingly bright future, peak still far ahead of him, then that knee injury.... | ||
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King.Crimson
Romania478 Posts
... Sorry, couldn't help myself :D After today, i think Messi just might be able to do it on a cold, rainy night in Stoke. | ||
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
Maxi Rodriguez (Liverpool): "There is no doubt, you're from another galaxy. Thanks Leo" Rio Ferdinand (Man United): "Messi doesn't look interested tonight....!!" Demba Ba (Newcastle United): "Is messi a human beeing?????" Gary Lineker (ex-player): "Fella's a genius! Best ever by a distance in my life time! Never really saw Pele [...] Wait til he grows up!" Lineker: "Souness,Gullit,Venables and now Rooney agree Messi is the best they have seen. He plays a game to which we are not familiar" Eden Hazard (Lille): "Is Messi the best player of all times?" Owen (ManUtd): "Not old enough to see some of the greats but can't believe anyone can have played the game of football as well as Messi." Valdes: "I'll be able to tell my grandchildren I've suffered messi, but only on training (laughs)." | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
Also, if one actually just looks at Barcelona, it's clear they are adjusted perfectly for the 'meta' of CL competition. They are the ultimate finesse team and batter other finesse teams. Most of the finesse teams in other leagues have to have a certain degree of physicality to be able to compete, and then they can beat almost everyone. They dominate la liga (RM excepted) because the competition level is quite low and the physicality of the league is extremely low. I think that the teams that are most likely to beat them and take points off them are teams that you will find in the middle of the EPL...teams that will give messi a dead leg or push 90% of the barcelona team out of the way in set pieces. I really think that if barcelona were playing the EPL they would not be the leaders. The only reason finesse teams like Manchester City can compete so well in the EPL is that they have epic enforcers like Toure, Kompany, Lescott (who literally looks like an escaped prison convict), Richards. Pique and maybe Busquets/ Puyol is all Barcelona have, the majority of the rest of the team is midgets. | ||
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iinsom
Australia339 Posts
On March 08 2012 08:51 Holgerius wrote: ''Best player ever'' is IMO still a pretty silly statement about a 24 year old. Have you not see him play? Hes an absolute beast | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28798 Posts
and I second raidern's opinion.. it's hard to say he's the greatest ever, but he definitely plays football at a higher level than anyone else has ever played at. greatest implies a longevity it's impossible for a 24-25 year old to have shown. I think he will be considered that when he retires though - of course an injury or "sudden unexplainable deterioration" would ruin that. that being said ronaldinho was prolly equally dominant just 8 or so seasons ago.  | ||
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Timurid
Guyana (French)656 Posts
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Timurid
Guyana (French)656 Posts
On March 08 2012 11:40 iinsom wrote: Have you not see him play? Hes an absolute beast If he is being label best player at 24 imagine later on. | ||
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