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On March 08 2012 11:52 Liquid`Drone wrote:barcelona wouldve dominated pl this season. prolly even if messi spent the season on the sidelines. and I second raidern's opinion.. it's hard to say he's the greatest ever, but he definitely plays football at a higher level than anyone else has ever played at. greatest implies a longevity it's impossible for a 24-25 year old to have shown. I think he will be considered that when he retires though - of course an injury or "sudden unexplainable deterioration" would ruin that. that being said ronaldinho was prolly equally dominant just 8 or so seasons ago. 
Ronaldinho had two amazing seasons where he destroyed everyone, then he started to fade away. Nowadays he's not even close to what he was before, that's why you can't say someone is the best of all time or greatest of all time before their carreer is over. Look at ronaldo, amazing seasons playing like a god. Then 1 injury and he never was the same. Also you can't compare too literally. When pele played the game was really different from today. Still he was the most dominant player over a longer period of time than everybody else. People jump the gun way too much. Messi might have the best season of a player ever, but dominating 3 seasons doesn't make you the best player ever.
On March 08 2012 11:08 Ver wrote:
It's not fair to blame Messi for Argentina's shortcomings in 2010 when they were being led by a guy who played Higuain, Maxi, and Otamendi instead of Milito, Zanetti, and Cambiasso or even Pastore while making sure to keep the team completely broken tactically. Argentina had easily one of the best lineups in the competition but it doesn't matter if their coach can't make use of it. Players can't be judged on some absolute scale, only by what they have around them. That's what makes RVP so remarkable this year.
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I agree with most of what you said but higuain over milito was definitely the right choice.
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Every American go to Fox Soccer right now :p
Seattle in the lead 1-0 against Santos
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Messi is the best ever.
Top players are saying it. Top coachs are saying it.
He have insane finishing skills, sick positioning senses, but the key, is that he is a masterful gamemaker. For instance, CR7 is a superb striker, but incapable of make their companions play. Messi can, anyone remember the last Barca 5 - Madrid 0? Messi scored zero goals, but was the man of the match.
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51664 Posts
just wait until mario gotze matures. i think he'll be up there with messi in a few years time.
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On March 08 2012 12:32 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Every American go to Fox Soccer right now :p
Seattle in the lead 1-0 against Santos
Good job Sounders, final score 2-1. Hopefully they can win again in Mexico, like they did against Monterrey last year.
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On March 08 2012 14:13 GTR wrote:
just wait until mario gotze matures. i think he'll be up there with messi in a few years time.
Unlikely, usually these sort of things get thrown at prolific goalscorers which is kinda unfortunate but pretty fair. I dont see him being one at that sort of level. Other superlatives maybe but not like whats thrown at a Messi or even a Ronaldo.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
I don't think anyone is old enough to comment on the greatest player of all times guy and dolls. I mean has anyone here whitnessed Pele? Maradonna? Rivaldo? Ronaldo? Bobby Charlton? George Best? Zico? Socrates? Marco Van Basten? Johan Cruyff? Robeto Di Baggio?
So many of these are all worth there weight in gold at the time they were all playing, now don't get me wrong Messi is farking fantastic player! A true inspiration to any youngster coming into the professional scene. But so was Pele and Maradonna. Maradonna you could argue is still ranked above messi as Maradonna singled handled won them the World Cup and so far Messi at a world cup has not gone well (AS OF YET!) so he has things to prove on that stage yet too. Pele has won 3 world cups and been to 4! Thats outstanding how many he has won! And one of my personal heroes was Bobby Charlton without him England would never of even dreamnt about the possibility of winning a world cup either. Please lets not say Messi is the "greatest of all time" YET anyway, he has alot to prove internationally too. I could run of a list of players who have an amazing scoring record at league level like Ronaldo (RealMadrid) and Messi, so i ask for you not to disrespect the greats of the game that have been in the past!
Also, i bet on APOEL beating Lyon :D Knew they wouldn't let me down! Congrats to them, ever since i went to Cyprus as a kid and my family have history there with my grandad being based there in the wars its an amazing place! I went there to the Chelsea away game the other year too, its an amazing atmosphere and awesome weather!
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think what people are missing is that Messi is still about 2-3 years from his prime? isnt it 28 when a outfield player hits their prime???
Also every seasons so far he seems to get better and better...
I would love to see Messi in the premiership and see if he could do it in that league like he can in Spain, spain though have two dominant sides who pretty much spank the other teams every week unless they have one off week. The premiership is so much more physical and also a lot higher overall standard.
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I think a lot of people are caught in the prisoner of the moment here. Yes, messi is fantastic. I'd put him miles ahead of any other player in the world right now. He is the best in the world right now, and i don't think anyone, not ronaldo is close. But, let's remember what pele and maradonna did. pele won 3 world cups, went to four, albeit with a stacked team. but that kind of consistency for that long a period of time is nearly impossible to do. maradonna, pretty much won the world cup himself without a stacked team.
remember, messi is playing with arguably the two greatest midfielders in the game's history. i actually think xavi is the best passer of all time. That definitely plays a lot into messi's greatness. I'm just saying, he's only 24 years old. Let's not crown him yet. We're all caught up in the prisoner of the moment.
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On March 08 2012 18:19 Tommylew wrote:
think what people are missing is that Messi is still about 2-3 years from his prime? isnt it 28 when a outfield player hits their prime???
Also every seasons so far he seems to get better and better...
I would love to see Messi in the premiership and see if he could do it in that league like he can in Spain, spain though have two dominant sides who pretty much spank the other teams every week unless they have one off week. The premiership is so much more physical and also a lot higher overall standard.
Spains competition is as good as the PL and Barca and Real in this shape would be top 2 and miles ahead in any league at the moment.
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Messi is insane, im surprised he doesn't get injured that often with everyone hacking him down everytime they attempt to tackle him.
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Oh Barça haters, where are you hiding now? :D I need more Ref complaints to make my day.
Yesterday was my B-day and Messi gave me such a gift :3
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No doubt he's amazing, but lets all remember hes got basically the two greatest midfielders of all time behind him in every match, thats why he needs to win a world cup to prove just how good he is, he needs to win something without the two other best players in the world, xavi and inestia, behind him
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the game was slower and players smoked and shit in pele's day, sure he was amazing for his time, but the game has evolved and messi would be like a super god if he played in pele's day and I doubt the pele of old would get far in today's game and its stupid to compare, but anyone who knows what they are talking about can see that messi is the best footballer ever, shame he'll never play in the EPL though
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On March 08 2012 20:44 mememolly wrote:
the game was slower and players smoked and shit in pele's day, sure he was amazing for his time, but the game has evolved and messi would be like a super god if he played in pele's day and I doubt the pele of old would get far in today's game and its stupid to compare, but anyone who knows what they are talking about can see that messi is the best footballer ever, shame he'll never play in the EPL though
Your basing that on theories! No one knows if Pele would ring circles around players of this day because its impossible to tell. I for one think if the 1st Division English teams from the 70s/80s player that of todays Premiership teams i would say Nottingham Forest Liverpool Everton Man Utd would be running circles round the Man Utd Chelsea Man City Arsenal of today due to muscles alone!
But technically i think Pele and Maradonna are far far greater in there careers IN TOTAL than Messi right now, not to say Messi might not out do them, but Argentina have been woeful in world cups all through out the 00s and 2010s so far. I don't think he is anywhere near Pele's level internationally etiher on paper you have to agree with that, 4 world cups attended 3 tropheys bought home, Maradonna 1 world cup in the 3 he turned up too and he had awful players around him.
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I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that pele and maradonna had nowhere near the resources that players like messi have these days. If it weren't for growth hormones, messi would me 140cm tall. If pele and maradonna had all the training and the right soccer balls instead of playing with melons, the right cleats, then who knows how good they could have been. messi is probably skillfully the best of all time, but i still think pele and maradonna are greater because of what they achieved in those times.
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GoGoGo Ath.Bilbao tonight. They play against Manchester United in the Europe League, they play the Spanish Cup Final against Barcelona and they are 4th/5th in the Spanish League. And they have a awesome coach like Bielsa.
It is awesome, because all his 23 players are from the vasque country. No players from other places of Spain or foreigners. They are the second team with more players in the Spanish National Team.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:26 haitike wrote:GoGoGo Ath.Bilbao tonight. They play against Manchester United in the Europe League, they play the Spanish Cup Final against Barcelona and they are 4th/5th in the Spanish League. And they have a awesome coach like Bielsa. It is awesome, because all his 23 players are from the vasque country. No players from other places of Spain or foreigners. They are the second team with more players in the Spanish National Team.
Wont be the manager for long Chelsea sniffing around him if Jose doesn't come back. I personally would love him instead of Jose, he would come into Chelsea and show them who is boss from the start, an EXCELLENT mananger, won praises from Ferguson already which takes alot of hard work to do as he is a stubborn scottish man!
Marco Bielsa to the BRIDGE YOU COME!!
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Bielsa is also a candidate to replace Pep if he leaves.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On March 08 2012 21:46 Zhiroo wrote:
Bielsa is also a candidate to replace Pep if he leaves.
What about for Real if Jose leaves?
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EPT
