EPTLeague Of Legends going to be added to MLG Raleigh - Page 7
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Grimjaw
178 Posts
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Khaymus
United States750 Posts
On July 10 2011 10:22 Bona Fide wrote: Is it insecurity, elitism, or just pure anger that drives the LoL/SC2 bashing? It's amazing how similarly the two are hated on. [LoL|SC2] is inferior to [DotA|SCBW], I have no idea why it's getting so much attention. I mean, they've basically dumbed down the original and there's no skill involved. Things like [no more creep denying|multiple building select] have made it so easy to be good. And you have things like [Flash|auto-mine] making it so much more forgiving for ADD players. The difference here is: HoN/Dota already have a retardedly low skill cap...and LoL is even lower. SC:BW had an unlimited skill cap...and SC2 is damn near close to that. LoL is a joke for a competitive game. | ||
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Furycrab
Canada456 Posts
On July 10 2011 10:33 Khaymus wrote: The difference here is: HoN/Dota already have a retardedly low skill cap...and LoL is even lower. SC:BW had an unlimited skill cap...and SC2 is damn near close to that. LoL is a joke for a competitive game. It's a different style of skill cap, the skill cap for just controlling your character is rather low, it's the whole 5 man team work that is on an entire level. Throw in a drafting system where you pretty much have to be capable of playing several different champions (since they can just ban or pick your character first) and you have a really high skill cap. The issue with LoL is that it's a bit like starcraft sorta was for quite some time, running tournament/watching replays/casting is still a serious pain. However if they get competent casters and the spectator mode they showcased at DH, it will be a solid addition to MLG. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On July 10 2011 10:33 Khaymus wrote: The difference here is: HoN/Dota already have a retardedly low skill cap...and LoL is even lower. SC:BW had an unlimited skill cap...and SC2 is damn near close to that. LoL is a joke for a competitive game. Can't compare DotA to SC, but it definitely does not have a low skill cap. Much higher than most games. At a high level, tiny differences in skill mean a LOT. LoL eliminated a lot of the things that give DotA that high skill cap, though. | ||
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LeLeech
United Kingdom211 Posts
Khaymus basically sums up my thoughts on the matter. LoL isn't an eSport, atleast not today. So many things wrong with the game to where it would be an insult to eSports to call it that. | ||
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
On July 10 2011 10:33 Khaymus wrote: The difference here is: HoN/Dota already have a retardedly low skill cap...and LoL is even lower. SC:BW had an unlimited skill cap...and SC2 is damn near close to that. LoL is a joke for a competitive game. Poker and chess have "low skill caps" and they're among the most renown competitive games. I heard decision making, risk calculating, and situation assessment are pretty important. | ||
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paper
13196 Posts
On July 10 2011 10:56 LoLAdriankat wrote: Poker and chess have "low skill caps" and they're among the most renown competitive games. I heard decision making, risk calculating, and situation assessment are pretty important. I don't think you know what "skill cap" is lol | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
On July 10 2011 10:33 Khaymus wrote: The difference here is: HoN/Dota already have a retardedly low skill cap...and LoL is even lower. SC:BW had an unlimited skill cap...and SC2 is damn near close to that. LoL is a joke for a competitive game. You either don't know what a skill cap is, or you haven't actually looked at the HoN/Dota/LoL scene yet. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On July 10 2011 10:56 LoLAdriankat wrote: Poker and chess have "low skill caps" and they're among the most renown competitive games. I heard decision making, risk calculating, and situation assessment are pretty important. Those are based on your opponent and the variety of situations that are presented to you, that's why Chess is an iffy example because you often have a variety of options that your opponent can abuse as well, as is the case in Starcraft 2. In League of Legends this is sort of limited in addition to the super simplistic mechanics of the games leads to an actual skill ceiling which furthermore leads to a lot of games being 60% decided at champion selection. I feel like HoN or DotA are the super competitive games in this regard and while the individual skill cap is somewhat low, the team and competitor factor helps raise that, and while a similar situation exists in LoL, it's largely neutered to the point of a comparison not being possible. Denying works as a good example of something that promotes activity within your lane and pits you directly against your opponent in-lane, in LoL it's not hard to continually get every creep in the push because last-hitting is also super easy for some reason so that's entire aspect of the game that's easy to be 100% at. These things matter for a competitive game. Either way, good for MLG, it should pull in a large number of viewers, but I won't be very interested in it because as a spectator sport and a competitive eSport, League of Legends sort of blows. | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
 That'd just drive the entire audience insane. | ||
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
There are a million definitions of the word 'skill' and no one seems to agree on what it should be, and the post I replied to was implying that 'skill' means mechanical skill. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On July 10 2011 09:20 starcraft911 wrote: Why LOL and not HON... such le dissapoint! Because until S2 gives HoN away for free, HoN will never surpass LoL even though it's the better game. | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
I do like that the game gets constant support and updates though, and it's pretty freakin fun. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On July 10 2011 11:16 Lobotomist wrote: Hm. How balanced do you guys feel LoL is? In my experience, with the aggressive release schedule for champions (1 every 2 weeks) it never really seemed to stabilize. Back when I played DotA, a new hero being released would completely change the hero-picking metagame, and took quite a bit of effort to balance. I don't think it's very balanced for competitive play, partly because of their aggressive release schedule but also because of the core design philosophy. Also, their stable version for competitive play is essentially like... one version off from the current version, as the Season 1 Tournament showed. Vayne was a champion who had just been released like two weeks prior and was allowed in tournament play, she was in an overwhelming amount of games. I'll mention what I identify as two key components of the imbalance in League of Legends. Role redundancy and role superiority. There is a lot of focus around developing champions for their specific roles which are pre-defined by Riot, in order to have a good team composition they gear teams towards picking a balanced amount of these roles so often times you're discouraged from pushing too many champions in one specific role, that's role redundancy. Now, these roles are broad and specific at the same time and are tagged as such so one champion will basically be doing essentially the same thing as another champion with a slightly different flavor barring some champions that are mega-quirky, because of this there are a lot of champions that basically do everything another champion does, they just do it better which is role superiority. This can mean there's less work involved in doing what others do, less chance of error, more effectiveness with slightly more effort etc. When combined, this causes what I perceive as an imbalance, not just in the individual champions from version to version with the power creep, but rather with the way teams are formed which results in a lot of games being largely decided at champion selection. In DotA and HoN, each hero fills a specific niche and situation and the objective is to create that situation for that hero with the other heroes which creates interesting synergy particularly when you factor in the number of team setup abilities, this is not the case in LoL as mentioned above which can both lead to stronger line-ups and less interesting gameplay for spectators. | ||
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Hakker
United States1360 Posts
It all depends on entertainment value, and according to dreamhack numbers, LoL has proven to have the higher entertainment value of the other options MLG had. | ||
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Purpleh433
30 Posts
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Tabbris
Bangladesh2839 Posts
On July 10 2011 10:33 Khaymus wrote: The difference here is: HoN/Dota already have a retardedly low skill cap...and LoL is even lower. SC:BW had an unlimited skill cap...and SC2 is damn near close to that. LoL is a joke for a competitive game. Just no. Sc BW is 10x harder than sc2. And before you say BW fanboy I played bw competivly for 2 years but only played sc2 since it came out. Sc2 is alot easier and saying that sc2 is near that skillcap is ridiculous when every korean already has near perfect macro | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On July 10 2011 11:35 Hakker wrote: Why does skill matter at all lol? It all depends on what has the better entertainment value. Baseball doesn't take as much skill as soccer but it's still the most popular game in the US. BW takes more skill than SC2, but BW is all but dead outside of korea and has been for ~8 years. Poker is not a hard game to play at a competitive level, and its probably the most popular strategy game in modern culture lol. It all depends on entertainment value, and according to dreamhack numbers, LoL has proven to have the higher entertainment value of the other options MLG had. No one is really arguing this as a business decision, they're mostly commenting on it as a competitive game and it's value for them personally as a spectator. I don't enjoy watching LoL very much and I don't consider it a good eSport, that's all. | ||
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Proxity
United States126 Posts
Good to see eSports growing, would appreciate if more games like BLC, and Quake. Oh well, to each his own. Never got into LoL because the games took to long and kills really didn't seem to matter. | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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