@Excalibur_Z - Awesome, thanks so much, exactly the kind of info I was looking for.
@rwrzr - I've started working through the Crosscounter content, really great stuff and indeed hilarious. I found them when friend of mine had linked me the mk9 episode a while ago where Mike Ross was choking people with Kano, I was almost in tears it is so funny.
@101toss - Thanks also, I'm trying to keep an attitude of learning and reacting but just needed a place to start. I'll also work to keep my wakeups unpredictable, I do love getting the people that stand close with command grab though...
On July 08 2011 03:47 Excalibur_Z wrote: Oni doesn't suck at all, I don't know what you guys are talking about. His normals are super good and his fireball isn't intended to win any fireball wars, it's just there for basic zoning. Non-FADCable DP isn't that bad, it just makes using it a risk if you're using it outside of a combo or in a neutral situation, which it should be anyway. It's way too early to call him low tier, even among tournament-level players. Eita's Oni is a good example of what that character is capable of, here's Eita vs Mago (Yang):
Personally I find Zangief vs Oni to be an incredibly difficult matchup because f+hp has insane range and pushback while his antiairs are also really good. I need to see his framedata to figure out optimal punishes but I can't punish that f+hp even with s.lk.
I find Gief vs Oni to be one of my favorable matchups. Even though he has decent zoning capabilities (a lot of knockbacks), I'm usually able to break my way in using glove/roundhouse/jumps/FA's. How to avoid the hp you ask? Jump in to close ~half distance, cr.roundhouse or standing roundhouse to get in spd range, l.spd. Congratulations, you just knocked Oni down and took out a quarter of his health. Either that or just FA your way in. His hp is no different than the good ol' sagat kick; once you've figured it out, he's done. Combined with the fact that Oni is squishy while Gief is tanky means Gief can afford to take hits to get in, while Oni gets raped by a single lariat. If Oni decides to go aggro on you, even better. The slash is easily stuffed by pressing the 3punch button, that airslamthingy is punished hard by h.spd/U1, headbutt has excellent priority+stun (esp. on Oni), and his ultra fireball does like 2 damage to gief.
A fun (but boring) thing to do is simply build meter. Just lariat every fireball he does (when you are at max distance). He can't do anything to do punish you, and you build meter really fast (quite faster than he does). When you have the full bar, ex glove->GG.
Only matchup I'm really stumped on is Seth. While the lack of j.stretchy arms is nice, there is no more counterhitheadbuttinstastun that giefs relied upon. Sonic boom + stretchy arms keep out quite well, quality DP handles most air, wall jump+headstomp allow easy escape, divekick allows for baiting, yoga teleport to escape crossups/corners, his bag of tricks is nearly endless. Of course, if the seth makes a mistake, he's done. It's still a terrible matchup when you consider that the only way to do damage is to have your opponents fuck up.
1.7k PP/B rank gief if you need an estimate of who I'm hitting
So it turns out the f+hp is -9 on block, but the pushback is so far that unless it hits really close you can't punish it. Supposedly Gief's c.mk can punish but the range might again be debatable even there, plus it's -2 on hit so you're in a potentially bad spot after that. Sakura should be able to punish with MP Sho though.
My PP is all over the place because I guess I tilt easily. Some days I'm 2100 and one day I went as low as 1100. This is with both Gief and Sakura but usually Gief tends to net me around the 1800-2000 range.
On July 08 2011 03:47 Excalibur_Z wrote: Oni doesn't suck at all, I don't know what you guys are talking about. His normals are super good and his fireball isn't intended to win any fireball wars, it's just there for basic zoning. Non-FADCable DP isn't that bad, it just makes using it a risk if you're using it outside of a combo or in a neutral situation, which it should be anyway. It's way too early to call him low tier, even among tournament-level players. Eita's Oni is a good example of what that character is capable of, here's Eita vs Mago (Yang):
I didn't say he sucked, just that he's below average (in a game with 36 characters, that's not "bad"). Not being able to FADC DP on block is huge, when pressuring any other shoto with two bars you have to respect the DP, but not with Oni. Because of this he doesn't really have any "get the fuck off me" moves. His normals are "super good" in frame properties, but the ranges are average at best. This becomes painfully clear when trying to play footsies against a good poker.
On July 08 2011 03:47 Excalibur_Z wrote: Personally I find Zangief vs Oni to be an incredibly difficult matchup because f+hp has insane range and pushback while his antiairs are also really good. I need to see his framedata to figure out optimal punishes but I can't punish that f+hp even with s.lk.
f+hp is -9 on block, I think Giefs sweep can punish that.
On July 08 2011 03:47 Excalibur_Z wrote: Oni doesn't suck at all, I don't know what you guys are talking about. His normals are super good and his fireball isn't intended to win any fireball wars, it's just there for basic zoning. Non-FADCable DP isn't that bad, it just makes using it a risk if you're using it outside of a combo or in a neutral situation, which it should be anyway. It's way too early to call him low tier, even among tournament-level players. Eita's Oni is a good example of what that character is capable of, here's Eita vs Mago (Yang):
I didn't say he sucked, just that he's below average. Not being able to FADC DP on block is huge, when pressuring any other shoto with two bars you have to respect the DP, but not with Oni. Because of this he doesn't really have any "get the fuck off me" moves. His normals are "super good" in frame properties, but the ranges are average at best. This becomes painfully clear when trying to play footsies against a good poker.
On July 08 2011 03:47 Excalibur_Z wrote: Personally I find Zangief vs Oni to be an incredibly difficult matchup because f+hp has insane range and pushback while his antiairs are also really good. I need to see his framedata to figure out optimal punishes but I can't punish that f+hp even with s.lk.
f+hp is -9 on block, I think Giefs sweep can punish that.
The short range sweep is 9f, but that has about the same range as s.mp which doesn't reach. C.mk's reach is longer. The long sweep would certainly reach but that's 14f.
On July 08 2011 04:26 Excalibur_Z wrote: So it turns out the f+hp is -9 on block, but the pushback is so far that unless it hits really close you can't punish it. Supposedly Gief's c.mk can punish but the range might again be debatable even there, plus it's -2 on hit so you're in a potentially bad spot after that. Sakura should be able to punish with MP Sho though.
My PP is all over the place because I guess I tilt easily. Some days I'm 2100 and one day I went as low as 1100. This is with both Gief and Sakura but usually Gief tends to net me around the 1800-2000 range.
-2 isn't a problem since Oni's dp is 3 frame startup. Also c.mk acts as a stepin kick, so that helps close the gap as well (I prefer using s.roundhouse though a bit more frame disadvantage). And as we all know, gief's halfscreen l.spd can connect from around that range, raping Oni's small health pool.
On July 08 2011 04:26 Excalibur_Z wrote: So it turns out the f+hp is -9 on block, but the pushback is so far that unless it hits really close you can't punish it. Supposedly Gief's c.mk can punish but the range might again be debatable even there, plus it's -2 on hit so you're in a potentially bad spot after that. Sakura should be able to punish with MP Sho though.
My PP is all over the place because I guess I tilt easily. Some days I'm 2100 and one day I went as low as 1100. This is with both Gief and Sakura but usually Gief tends to net me around the 1800-2000 range.
-2 isn't a problem since Oni's dp is 3 frame startup. Also c.mk acts as a stepin kick, so that helps close the gap as well (I prefer using s.roundhouse though a bit more frame disadvantage). And as we all know, gief's halfscreen l.spd can connect from around that range, raping Oni's small health pool.
Hm I dunno why you say his health pool is small, it isn't Seth or Akuma or E.Ryu small. He has more health than female characters or the twins, even.
Also I know you can't directly be punished by Oni for a -2 frame move, but it means you can't really start any pressure either and you basically have to block or let them jump away for free. In terms of positioning that's not such a bad thing because you force them closer to the corner, so I guess that's something.
Hey does anyone know the combo that oni is using for pressure in the video you linked excalibur_Z its at 1:36 or so he starts it its just a simple couple hits into light slash. Not sure what the initial two hits are, but it looks great for keeping pressure on the opponent.
On July 08 2011 04:41 Excalibur_Z wrote: Hm I dunno why you say his health pool is small, it isn't Seth or Akuma or E.Ryu small. He has more health than female characters or the twins, even.
His health is the same as Sakura/Juri/Cammy/Rose, not the worst but below average. Considering he's not very mobile, I would've expected him to have more.
On July 08 2011 04:49 DrBoo wrote: Hey does anyone know the combo that oni is using for pressure in the video you linked excalibur_Z its at 1:36 or so he starts it its just a simple couple hits into light slash. Not sure what the initial two hits are, but it looks great for keeping pressure on the opponent.
Looks like c.lk, c.lp, link into target combo 2 (b+mp, s.hp), cancel into lk.slash
On July 08 2011 04:41 Excalibur_Z wrote: Hm I dunno why you say his health pool is small, it isn't Seth or Akuma or E.Ryu small. He has more health than female characters or the twins, even.
His health is the same as Sakura/Juri/Cammy/Rose, not the worst but below average. Considering he's not very mobile, I would've expected him to have more.
On July 08 2011 04:49 DrBoo wrote: Hey does anyone know the combo that oni is using for pressure in the video you linked excalibur_Z its at 1:36 or so he starts it its just a simple couple hits into light slash. Not sure what the initial two hits are, but it looks great for keeping pressure on the opponent.
Looks like c.lk, c.lp, link into target combo 2 (b+mp, s.hp), cancel into lk.slash
Damn, thats a link combo? ugh hate links my timing is soo bad >,>
Allright, I'm gonna order this asap, was gonna do it a couple of minutes ago, but the site was bugged, so i'll just wait untill tomorrow. Anyway:
Anyone have any good character reccomendations for a total noob at street fighter? I've played around a tiny bit in vanilla sf4, but I never found any particular characters that I really liked.
On July 08 2011 06:05 Tablespoon wrote: Allright, I'm gonna order this asap, was gonna do it a couple of minutes ago, but the site was bugged, so i'll just wait untill tomorrow. Anyway:
Anyone have any good character reccomendations for a total noob at street fighter? I've played around a tiny bit in vanilla sf4, but I never found any particular characters that I really liked.
Are you planning on playing on a stick or a pad? I'd recommend playing on a stick if you plan on being semi serious about it.
For character selection I'd recommend 'Yun or Yang' cause they're pretty simple to do inputs and they're really freaking good.
If you don't like them or they don't work with you, I'd recommend trying 'Cody' since he doesn't have many links for basic combos and he does a good amount of damage.
If you're still not feeling it with them rotation characters you can try a charge character 'Guile' is really straight forward and easy since he only has two charge moves. (Flash Kick and Sonic Boom) He's good if you want to play super turtle and defend more and play more on the safe side.
If you want to play more aggressive with a charge character you can try 'Balrog' since he's a good rush down character with his dash punch's.
TLDR: Yun or Yan for easy high tier Cody for easy combo damage Guile for charge turtle Balrog for charge rushdown
On July 08 2011 06:05 Tablespoon wrote: Allright, I'm gonna order this asap, was gonna do it a couple of minutes ago, but the site was bugged, so i'll just wait untill tomorrow. Anyway:
Anyone have any good character reccomendations for a total noob at street fighter? I've played around a tiny bit in vanilla sf4, but I never found any particular characters that I really liked.
Are you a sf noob, or a noob to fighting games in general? I'm really liking charge characters right now, but when I was first getting into the game I couldn't wrap my head around the theory of it all so I played Sim.
I've played a bit of fighting games, mostly a lot of Mortal Kombat lately (I main Reptile if that helps), so I'm not a total noob to fighting games, but definitely a Street Fighter noob. And so far i'll be playing on a pad, but I've been looking into getting a stick for a while, I just have other things that I need to buy before I have the money to afford a decent one.
The first thing that came to mind after hearing reptile was yun. Imho you should just pick the character that appeals to you the most as long as it isn't a highly technical one. But if you dont give a shit.. i think balrog is the easiest to learn the basics.
On July 07 2011 18:02 Copenap wrote: Hey, here's a SSF IV nub question. So I'm getting the Hori EX2 because the xbox pad is just awfull and I don't wanna spend 150 for a TE as I'm not going to play it to seriously. The thing is though, the stick layout has 6 buttons next to the stick and the LB and LT are only small buttons placed on the top, so that they are pretty much not useful during a game.
TEs are usually $100 unless it's a special edition or something, and you can replace the parts so if it ever breaks then you can just buy a new one of whatever you need... the reliability is worth the upgrade, it's not that it's only for "pros" or whatever. there's a lot of people out there who insist on using TEs and are terrible.
no stick will make you play better though.
anyway for the EX2 i believe the correct option in the controls menu is type C, you'll only use 6 buttons and it works fine.
Unfortunatly it's 150€ where I live, so I guess I just see how much "involved" I get with fighting games (haven't really played them since Tekken Tag Tournament ^^) and if the EX2 stops working and I want to continue playing the next stick will probablyy be a TE. Thanks for your input.
Balrog is more of a whiff punish sort of character, not rushdown at all...I can't really think of any rushdown charge characters, maybe dictator or blanka?
Anyways, thats a episode 1, Balrog tutorial by PR Rog.
On July 08 2011 06:38 Tablespoon wrote: I've played a bit of fighting games, mostly a lot of Mortal Kombat lately (I main Reptile if that helps), so I'm not a total noob to fighting games, but definitely a Street Fighter noob. And so far i'll be playing on a pad, but I've been looking into getting a stick for a while, I just have other things that I need to buy before I have the money to afford a decent one.
You can pretty much disregard DrBoo's whole post.
Yun and Yang are very intense rushdown characters, you'll be pressing buttons for days with them. The reason they are so good is because the majority of their pressure is safe.
Cody deals AMAZING damage if you get all of his links down. It isn't easy at all.
Guile does only have two moves but he is one of the hardest characters to use correctly since you need a vast amount of knowledge regarding his normals and when to charge/when to move forward.
Balrog is not a rushdown character at all. Just because he has a special that moves him forward doesn't mean he wants to rushdown. The best way to play Balrog is to spend 75% of your time d/b and the other 25% carefully walking forward pressing his normals.
As for a rushdown charge character I'd say Dictator is the best one. Blanka can kind of rush but he is absolutely amazing when you play lame as shit with him.
EPT
ugh hate links my timing is soo bad >,>
