EPTUltra Street Fighter IV - Page 515
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On April 17 2015 06:16 Trumpet wrote: hmmm I may try that, didn't think of backdashing away on landing. I WAS ABOUT TO SAY... Really though you're right. Too many other games and not enough sf got me jumping too much and the not enough people I play online punish it properly. edit: omg I just watched the above video. he tells me not to jump so much and jumps three times in the first eight seconds. I see why they call you fakesteve. edit2: that reset on juri in round 3 was cute tho hahahaha, buuuuusted xD i will say it's.... different, with Sakura and Cammy, than with most characters, but I'm guilty of this habit as well. It sucks because vs local competition i can either just roll over them, or get the information I need for my actual gameplan through this aggression, but it's poor practice for tournaments. It gets me in trouble against Air, but I don't play him as often as I'd like. He wants me to come to vancouver for a week before Evo to help them get ready (I'm probably not going to Evo this year), so I'm really considering doing that. The average level of play in Vancouver is higher than here in Edmonton, and they have waaaaay more players. My best pal & former teammate moved out there in February and he's loving their FGC | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
I went into this set intending to play Cammy for the first few matches. I kinda just arbitrarily decided before it started that I'd switch out once I lost 5. I actually thought I'd only get 1 or 2 vs his Elena with her, but I ended up getting to 5-4, so that was a bonus. Regardless, the first few matches of a long set like this are for exploring. I played a pretty loose game vs him just to get in as often as possible. Once I'm in, there's specific information I'm looking for: tech habits. If he: 1) crouch techs at the basic jab-jab-jab timing: - use tight frame traps with 1-2f gaps (c.jab -> cl.mp or c.jab -> c.fp) 2) delayed tech, which is pretty much standard now: - manually delay my previously listed frame traps OR use traps with bigger gaps like c.lk -> c.fp OR instant air ex divekick 3) stand techs every so often (which will beat delayed frame traps from (2)): - instant air ex divekick OR walk back, c.mk x arrow There are other things I didn't list that you can do to punish these particular ways to tech, I'm just showing my thought process I discover what their habits are by attempting to throw them, and then attempting basic frame traps listed under (1) above. I'm looking for PATTERNS - anything they do automatically, without explicit thought. By cycling through these varying options, I get the information I need to start opening someone up. Again, I'm looking for patterns I can exploit. I frame trapped the SHIT out of this guy in the later matches in the set, and I was able to predict how he'd adjust his defense, so I could stay a step ahead. This is probably the #1 thing I'm good at in sf4, I WILL open you up eventually if I get in. Having success in this aspect of my pressure opens up the next step, and this is the shit I had to reveal... When you get someone worrying about your throw/frame trap game, other things will go unnoticed. I look again for patterns in other areas that I can exploit. In this particular set, this is what i found: - I am getting a good amount of throws now, because of the threat of my frame traps - I can open this guy up often enough to be threatening when I'm in - This guy can block the dirty fake crossup j.fp after forward throw The important thing to realize here is that I intentionally just did the same setup almost every time after I got a throw: jump fp, on the front. The idea here is to get him comfortable blocking this jump-in, and most importantly, FOCUSED AND THINKING ABOUT MY THROW/FRAME TRAPS So once I think he is conditioned to always block that j.fp, BECAUSE he is so focused on my frame trap/throw, and because there's no innate threat to the j.fp itself because he blocks it successfully most of the time.... When I get him down to ~35%, and I have U1 and a bar, I slowed my game down a ton, and looked for a forward throw. When I got it, I did empty crossup c.lk into bnb into U1, which kills at that much hp. See how he is conditioned to block the j.fp because he's worried about my pressure after it? See how I made a DELIBERATE ACTION at a time when it would kill that runs counter to that? He was so nervous about what I was gonna do after I put him in blockstun that he just took the blockstun as a foregone conclusion. Elena can't really get out of that setup, but there's a specific reason I never really went for a crossup j.mk. I don't need a crossup, I need a solid read to end round. This exact setup, empty jump crossup c.lk into bnb into U1, ended 10 or more rounds over this set. There's other stuff, but this is a really clear example | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
On April 17 2015 06:16 Trumpet wrote: hmmm I may try that, didn't think of backdashing away on landing. I WAS ABOUT TO SAY... Really though you're right. Too many other games and not enough sf got me jumping too much and the not enough people I play online punish it properly. edit: omg I just watched the above video. he tells me not to jump so much and jumps three times in the first eight seconds. I see why they call you fakesteve. edit2: that reset on juri in round 3 was cute tho I think with correct spacing jumping is fine and a lot of good players tend to overstate how bad jumping is. It's a bad habit if you just jump to cover distance, sure, but there are plenty of jumping attacks that have ridiculously good hitboxes and should be abused often. Sakura j.hp hits really really low, Ryu j.hp hits really really low and far out, Honda j.mp hits really really low, Balrog j.hk hits really really low and j.hp hits pretty far forward, Vega j.hp hits really really low. There are so many examples of jumping attacks that are designed to beat a lot of poor antiairs straight up or typically trade in your favor. Sakura is especially brutal in the air-to-ground field because j.hp stuffs a lot of antiair normals, j.hk stuffs a lot of antiair normals that are thrown out with a timing and spacing that tries to beat j.hp (it hits further forward and lower but it's more vulnerable), j.mk can cross up and make the more vertical antiairs miss, and air tatsu can change your landing trajectory to make DPs whiff. That doesn't mean 100% of your offense with Sakura is jumping, but it's a valuable tool to have in your toolbox and shouldn't be shelved because jumping is generally a bad idea. | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
you usually hear 'you jump too much' as blanket advice for learning players, but it should really be 'you jump mindlessly or for the wrong reasons'. its waaaay harder to explain what the 'right' reasons are, and tons of people really do just think 'well im gonna go in now' and they jump... thats why you hear it a lot lol jumpng isnt something you can just do against a good player, but you cant rightly 'just do' anything vs a good player. when i tell people 'stop jumping' its because they need to improve the other ways to approach or gain space | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
However, even though throws have a 3f startup, their escape window is longer than 3f. Players who know to expect frametraps often delay their throw escape attempt until the last possible part of the escape window. But, as long as they're able to escape a throw, that means they're pushing a button at some point, you just have to figure out when and delay your frametrap accordingly. Maybe instead of a +2 on block move then a 3f move you use a +2 on block move followed by a 5f move, or you switch it up and trick them with a 0 on block move followed by a 4f move, or you walk forward for a few frames to make it look like you're going for a throw and then you throw out a move. | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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riotjune
United States3392 Posts
I thought you guys were talking about safe jumps for a second. But yea, I agree that jumps are a valuable tool in addition to having a strong ground game. I'd jump after I condition the opponent into thinking I'm not the jumping type, except against those who automatically dp on reaction, can't fool those guys when their reflexes just override my mind game attempts  | ||
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Trumpet
United States1935 Posts
The better the player, the more information they can process at a time, and the better they can react to things like jumps without sacrificing other aspects of their game... but even the best get jumped on. It's important to note, some situations are more obvious jumps to see coming. Even if you don't jump the whole round, if you're at 3% health against a 60% opponent (esp fireball character) from 1.5x sweep range... I promise they're looking for it (or should be!) I just have real bad habits about jumping bc KoF drilled into me that jumps are the proper counters to sweeps | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On April 18 2015 08:37 Trumpet wrote: tbh no one's reflexes are just that perfect. people that anti air 100% of your jumps are looking for you to jump. that means they're sacrificing elsewhere, usually meaning they're not pressing significant (slower / bigger) ground buttons. For example, if I expect someone to jump, I generally won't press st HK, st HP, or sweep, because I won't have time to anti air if they do jump or may not recover in time to even block. The better the player, the more information they can process at a time, and the better they can react to things like jumps without sacrificing other aspects of their game... but even the best get jumped on. It's important to note, some situations are more obvious jumps to see coming. Even if you don't jump the whole round, if you're at 3% health against a 60% opponent (esp fireball character) from 1.5x sweep range... I promise they're looking for it (or should be!) I just have real bad habits about jumping bc KoF drilled into me that jumps are the proper counters to sweeps Unless your name is Fuudo, who looks literally inhuman about that. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
On April 18 2015 10:24 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: oh my god i wish sakura could short hop She can, its lk tatsu. | ||
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Trumpet
United States1935 Posts
On April 18 2015 11:13 Noocta wrote: Unless your name is Fuudo, who looks literally inhuman about that. Until he played Marq Teddy 8] | ||
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Aylear
Norway3988 Posts
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Ophe
Sweden388 Posts
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Aylear
Norway3988 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Learn to play Ultra Street Fighter 4 is super easy to pick up and play, and simultaneously incredibly deep with tons of advanced tactics, strategies, and mind games. It's easy to feel overwhelmed by the amount of existing content (not to mention the 500 and counting pages of this very thread), but finding new knowledge that is appropriate to your skill level has never been easier. Check the video and hit the spoiler below for a couple of tutorials. Here's a 4:33 minute video showing you how not to be a scrub. Turn subtitles on if you aren't smelly and rude. + Show Spoiler [More tutorials and tech videos] + Footsies as explained by Juicebox. A great introduction to arguably the most important part of playing Street Fighter IV at a high level. This will get you to think about what you're doing. In StarCraft 2 terms, this is like "keep making probes, keep making pylons" in that it will let you run over opponents that don't, but it takes a lot of practice to do well. This right here is why Daigo is better than you. For people who play a character that has a projectile, this quick (6 minute) projectile and zoning tutorial will show you how to force your opponent to play a more cautious footsie game with you. Don't forget that your projectile is also a poke. This is a guide for Ryu made by top player Air. It's an advanced guide in that it assumes you know the basics of play. Mostly covers character-specific tactics and obscure tricks that can be used, but the techniques it teaches are relevant to all characters, and it is a must-see if you are serious about taking Street Fighter to the next level. Most of us here are long since past the basics of play so I don't expect you'd know the best tutorials, but if you do have any suggestions please let me know. Oh, and if you're learning the game and you are at that level where you're just starting to take things more seriously, you need to watch Juicebox's footsie tutorial. Trust me. That stuff is why Daigo is better than you. | ||
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riotjune
United States3392 Posts
No matches this weekends? Time to work on my own. | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
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