Buy a stick if that is what you want to play with, not because it's a superior input method. It isn't.
It really depends on where you live, and where you're buying from.
Major electronics or computer retailers are unlikely to have them, and if they do, they are almost certain to be high level MadCatz (and some times Hori) sticks. Fine choices, but not exactly budget. Look instead for specialty stores in or near your country that specifically sells gaming gear. You might have better luck there.
That said, choice of stick is important (and depends on your budget), so if you can, I would recommend you decide on a stick and then order it from http://www.amazon.co.uk/ or whatever major online retailer will ship to you for less than the price of a car.
Now for the important red part: The above list includes actual sticks only. I don't own an arcade stick personally as I actually prefer playing on keyboard. If you're on PC, that's what I would recommend using for now -- especially if you have a good mechanical keyboard.
The reason for this is simply that in Street Fighter (and most fighting games, especially 2D fighting games), input is actually digital. There's no actual analog movement, which means that a stick is simply an analog input designed to interpret and output digital commands. This adds delay because you are physically moving a stick from left to right instead of just pressing a single button to do the same thing.
Pure digital movement (like from a keyboard - preferably mechanical - or a Hitbox Arcade) is simply better in any game where there are input shortcuts for special moves, which means most of them. You can release hadoukens much quicker and more consistently than anyone can on a stick. Charge moves are a cinch as you don't ever need to let go of the charge button. With Decapre, I can do a Spike just by holding Down+Back with my left hand and then pressing Punch+Jump simultaneously with my right. Instant 1-frame uppercut, during which I am still holding A+S, meaning I am instantly charging the next move.
The only reason people use sticks is because 1) that's how arcades have been for fighting games since forever, 2) everyone else is using one so whenever you ask what to buy, they tell you to get a stick, and 3) some games play better (and arguably feel more fun) on a stick as opposed to purely digital movement... ...but for Street Fighter, sticks are not better. In fact, if you go to a tournament and you have a Hitbox Arcade, people aren't going to laugh at you for using an inferior tool. People are going to bitch about you playing with such a crutch -- they'll call you cheap and lazy, a little fuck who needs a Hitbox, and say things like "Back in my day..."
I would recommend you just use a keyboard for now, and if you ever get serious about going to tournaments, consider a Hitbox. For most things in the game it's superior, and for others it's harder to use (but still superior). Not by much, but even if it was even, it invalidates the necessity of a stick.
Buy a stick if that is what you want to play with, not because it's a superior input method. It isn't.
If I was going to go to tournaments, I would buy a Hitbox Arcade, but for now, keyboard is all I need.
Recommended keyboard key bindings:
S D F for left/down/right, Spacebar for jump.
UIO for punches, HJK for kicks. That way you can press space bar with either thumb, meaning you can do charge moves with your left hand (A+S for down+back) and instantly do an uppercut with the right (I+Space). Yes, this feels really weird at first with space bar (the lowest button in the bindings) being jump, but it's worth getting used to, believe me.
Actually you can find the Razer Atrox in some general electronics stores that carry "gaming gear", at least in Sweden. It goes for about 220€ over here, but it's a good stick.
I think the only reason I considered a stick is because of the "awesome" factor, I bet it feels really great to play with that. I have a decent mechanical keyboard but when I first started playing SF I really had issues with just specials that require 180motions, can't imagine how you'd do 360/720 ones. Played on an old 360pad for awhile now and the stick movement feels great, but the pad is shit so that's why I thought of getting a proper stiick.
I'll try to play with a keyboard again and see how it goes. I'll try your settings even though that setup sounds bizarre.
What parts do you disagree with, and what can you provide as arguments?
Edit: Never mind, just took a look at your posting history, it's mostly short quips, quoting posts and going "this", or (at most) 5-word responses. Not going to expect anything here.
If anyone else wants to talk about digital vs stick input for SF4, go for it.
Edit 2: This is what I'm talking about. With a keyboard or a Hitbox Arcade or whatever, digital input is on par with a stick, and often better and more consistent. First, an easy 3-frame ultra with Decapre:
(Watch on Chrome for 1080p/60fps)
I am a 32 year old fuck, emphasis on old, and I can do this consistently every time. This is not hard.
And for Hitbox Arcade, here's a very short 720 tutorial to really showcase why I say digital is just as good as or better than an arcade stick:
This tutorial tells you to slide your finger across the buttons, but with a good bit of practice you can do this stuff by pianoing as well which is how you would do it on a keyboard. This is not hard. You can pick this up with consistent practice in an afternoon or two, with as much effort as you would on a stick.
So, like I said, if you want to play with a stick (because it 1) feels better, 2) you want to use it for all kinds of fighting games outside of Street Fighter, or 3) you intend to play USF4 in the arcade), then play with a stick and enjoy the feeling of a well-made mechanical device under your fingers. I'm just trying to dispel the notion that it's objectively better and that you need one to compete at the top level. NuckleDu plays with a gamepad, for fuck's sake.
Edit 3! The Hitbox video is also why I recommend you have punch and kicks on the UIO / HJK keys or anywhere nearby that is comfortable to you, and have jump be space bar instead of w no matter how tempting w might seem to you at first. It's so that you 1) don't need to swap fingers like you do with WASD, and 2) so you can use your right thumb to hit the space bar if you want to. It's not needed, but it gives you consistent performance. You just have to get used to it.
Edit 4: Got my own age wrong. Disregard fucking everything.
I would posit that it's easier to learn to play on a stick, only because it's more intuitive. At the highest levels though, after you're used to your tool of choice, there is really minimal difference between stick / pad / keyboard(hitbox). In fact the less intuitive (pad and hitbox) tend to have some cool tricks and advantages over sticks depending on game or character.
I still can't do Zangief's standing 720 (technically it's a 630) on the Hitbox, registering the up/jump between the 2 left inputs and the rest before Zangief takes off is the hardest part. Maybe my hands are too big or something.
And wouldn't sliding across the buttons like that damage your fingers? That shit hurts (same thing when I do hcbx2 motions in KoF)
Still trying to find someone near me with a laser cutter who can smooth out the sharp edges of the plexiglass. Granted there's one at the university, but I don't know if the students are good enough to operate it without messing it up.
On April 19 2015 23:53 Duka08 wrote: I would posit that it's easier to learn to play on a stick, only because it's more intuitive. At the highest levels though, after you're used to your tool of choice, there is really minimal difference between stick / pad / keyboard(hitbox). In fact the less intuitive (pad and hitbox) tend to have some cool tricks and advantages over sticks depending on game or character.
This point you could definitely argue -- it's almost certainly true for you if you grew up playing fighting games in the arcades. I don't remember any more how long it took me to learn the various control methods. I remember that I did okay on gamepad at first, and then I had some test runs on a friends' arcade stick for about a week, but it wasn't until I nabbed AE2012 on PC and spent some time with digital inputs that things really started clicking for me.
The breakthrough came when I learned that SF4 is extremely lenient with its button prompts, and that there are shortcuts for just about everything. So when I realized I don't have to do, say, + to do Guile's Ultra 2, that + will work, and that Street Fighter is incredibly intelligent with the way you can input said commands, the game really opened up to me.
"You mean can be done as + ? Awesome!"
Your mileage may of course vary.
On April 19 2015 23:53 Duka08 wrote: I would posit that it's easier to learn to play on a stick, only because it's more intuitive. At the highest levels though, after you're used to your tool of choice, there is really minimal difference between stick / pad / keyboard(hitbox). In fact the less intuitive (pad and hitbox) tend to have some cool tricks and advantages over sticks depending on game or character.
Gamepad has advantages? What are those? I'd love to hear them, because my knee-jerk reaction is to say that gamepad is the worst of both worlds. Cr.mk xx Hands is ungodly hard on gamepad (part of why you don't see NuckleDu using them too often), and the D-pad is not as good as a keyboard or Hitbox Arcade. Tell me what I'm missing! ♥
On April 19 2015 23:53 Duka08 wrote: I would posit that it's easier to learn to play on a stick, only because it's more intuitive. At the highest levels though, after you're used to your tool of choice, there is really minimal difference between stick / pad / keyboard(hitbox). In fact the less intuitive (pad and hitbox) tend to have some cool tricks and advantages over sticks depending on game or character.
Gamepad has advantages? What are those? I'd love to hear them, because my knee-jerk reaction is to say that gamepad is the worst of both worlds. Cr.mk xx Hands is ungodly hard on gamepad (part of why you don't see NuckleDu using them too often), and the D-pad is not as good as a keyboard or Hitbox Arcade. Tell me what I'm missing! ♥
Grapplers mostly. Really quick 360s and standing 720s. Snake eyez a solid example. There are definitely certain things that are more difficult; I can imagine hands can be really awkward without some clever shoulder button configuration or something. But players like Du and Smug and Snake have shown that it definitely doesn't have to hold you back. 3 of USAs top players right now.
Like I said, some might be harder/trickier to learn on or use overall, but at the highest level they're all competitive. I can't wait until more hitbox players start showing up, across multiple games.
Aha, right. Thanks. I can definitely see how fast 720s would be a thing on D-pad.
Out of all of them, I do kind of wish NuckleDu would make the switch to stick, at least if he intends to keep playing Decapre. Hands is a super useful zoning tool, and Du is a bit handicapped with it being as arduous as it is on a gamepad. But then again that's what Wolfkrone tried and failed to do, so maybe I should just never bring this up again ever, hah. <3
Something I noticed after I transitioned from stick to hitbox is that my bad days are way worse on hitbox than they ever were on a stick. It might be a personal thing but it's really obvious to me. But then again I try to use as few shortcuts as possible because I don't want to fuck up my muscle memory.
Just some more thoughts about playing on the Hitbox or using digital inputs:
1. Ring finger and pinky are the weakest and slowest fingers on the hand, something my piano teacher pointed out, and that which I can attest to. That’s why when playing a string of fast, loud notes you’re better off maximizing use of the thumb, index, and middle fingers while minimizing use of the ring and pinky. The same could probably be said when performing combos that require fast inputs. This helps keep up your strength and speed in those long playing sessions.
2. Pianoing from pinky to index is much faster and natural then pianoing from index to pinky. You can see this for yourself by tapping your fingers on a desk in a sequential manner. Going from pinky to index is easy and you can do it repeatedly without thinking about it. However, I run into problems when I try this in the opposite direction. The motion feels clunky and unnatural, and the middle, ring, and pinky fingers have a tendency to clump together, thus forcing me to exert a conscious effort to make them piano in sequential order and slowing down the input.
I don’t know why this is the case, maybe it has something to do with the intrinsic and extrinsic muscles of the hand. I know that the middle and ring finger share a tendon/muscle, which might explain why they tend to stick together. You can also demonstrate this to yourself by laying your hand flat across the table, but with the middle finger bent inward towards you. Then try moving the other fingers up and down, you’d find you can move all the other fingers except the ring, which remains immobilized.
This is why doing dp’s on the left/P1 side is much easier than on the right/P2 side for me personally. This is also why doing hcb motions with my left hand when my character is on the right/P2 side is much easier than when my character is on the left/P1 side. When my character is on the left side, I prefer to do hcb motions by sliding one finger across the buttons from right to left rather than pianoing. Not only is sliding faster, the inputs are also cleaner since once the finger passes a button, that button no longer remains depressed. Which brings me to my next point:
3. Keeping a button pressed down even for a fraction of a second longer than it needs to be might mess up your combos/inputs. This is especially true when playing on the Hitbox due to the sensitivity of the Sanwa buttons. Sometimes I’m not even aware by fingers are keeping the button depressed for longer than it needs to be, I have to make the conscious effort to lift up my fingers immediately after the input. When doing FADCs, you have to tap the back button and immediately let go, or else the FA will complete. It’s something to adjust to, but one you get it down you can pull off combos consistently. I surmise this is also the reason why bad days on the Hitbox might be extremely bad since I’m playing lazily and not realizing my fingers are slouching over the buttons.
I think a stick automatically springing back to neutral position is a slight advantage over the Hitbox since letting go of the stick is easier than consciously lifting up your fingers from the buttons, plus you can do it while resting your hand on the surface. With the Hitbox you have to hover your fingers over the buttons, but I guess can you can rest your palm on the surface once you can get the sharp plexi edge to stop cutting into your palm. You might still lose hand speed though since your hand won’t be as mobile.
4. Since I’m resorting to sliding when doing hcb motions on the P1 side, my opponent can see and hear (it makes a really distinct sound) my hand movements on the Hitbox and make reads, which might be a disadvantage.
5. Sliding also hurts like hell after long playing sessions. Since I don’t want to subject my fingers to repeated trauma, I’m thinking about replacing the left, down, and right Sanwa buttons with something that is more slide-friendly. I heard some of the Korean buttons do just that, but I’m not exactly sure where to find them. Using smaller Sanwa buttons is another option, but I don’t know how they’ll fit with the holes.
I can’t do what I think are contortionist motions on a stick though, so I stick to the Hitbox in the meantime. This thing can still be improved from its’ default build.
crappy patch, will it even remove the audio glitch? haven't read about it anywhere, just decapre change and omega changes which I doubt nobody cares about
Notable entrants: ("Among others", not a complete list) 801 | Jaycetheace AG Nativeimpact Alex Myers Boeken brenttiscool CCG|Air Crackfiend Dogura EG JWong EG PR Balrog EG Ricky Ortiz El Cubano Loco Filipino Champ Julio KojiKOG LPN MC Xsk_Samurai Mean Saltine pH HooDaMan SRKUW | Fawwaz Tempo/ Chris G TFA GERMAN LUGER TS Sabin UGC Vicious WHITE GUN
Pools coming soon in the form of a Google document, and then later as Challonge brackets.
Top 8 will be entirely 3/5, and points are awarded for CPT like so:
Edit: Added information to the OP. Ro8 should be entertaining, although we're missing a lot of killers.
Is this the first time Jayce The Ace attends a tournament since he picked up Decapre? Anyway, I don't expect anything less than the feeling of pure disgust after his games. I hope he doesn't disappoint.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8dsdvpL.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29920516/usf4-arrow-1.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29920516/usf4-arrow-2.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29920516/usf4-arrow-3.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29920516/usf4-arrow-9.png){kind=icon}
+ ![[image loading]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29920516/usf4-kick-l.png)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29920516/usf4-kick-m.png)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29920516/usf4-kick-h.png)
to do Guile's Ultra 2, that ![[image loading]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29920516/usf4-arrow-7.png){kind=icon}
+ ![[image loading]](http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/streetfighter/images/d/d8/Arcade_Stick_CDB.png)
![[image loading]](http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/streetfighter/images/b/b5/Arcade_Stick_Delta.png)
![[image loading]](http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/streetfighter/images/e/ec/Arcade_Button_Kick_x3.png)
can be done as ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDJtGvqXIAA63SW.jpg)
