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Ultra Street Fighter IV - Page 275

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Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
March 05 2013 06:37 GMT
#5481
IMO keyboard is decent, especially if you go Cherry red, but it could be quite embarassing to take it to tournaments. I would highly suggest just getting a hitbox if you like the feel of playing on a keyboard. And yes, the Xbox D-Pad is totally unplayable, don't use that.

In order of control from best to worst: Hitbox > Keyboard > Stick > Saturn pad > PS2 pad > every other pad.

It's really just a matter of what you're used to.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
Duka08
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
3391 Posts
March 05 2013 06:39 GMT
#5482
If you're just playing for fun, then I agree with Cel.erity above. Keyboard works just fine, likely better than controller.
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-05 07:58:17
March 05 2013 07:57 GMT
#5483
On March 05 2013 15:39 Duka08 wrote:
If you're just playing for fun, then I agree with Cel.erity above. Keyboard works just fine, likely better than controller.

Yeah, I'm playing for fun,I don't even plan to become a C-teamer

And I didn't mean the Xbox controller specifically, I meant hand controls like a Xbox controller. Couldn't think of a better name.
EZ4ENCE
Trumpet
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1936 Posts
March 05 2013 18:37 GMT
#5484
I don't think there's anything wrong with the xbox controller. Use what's most comfortable for you. Ideally you should use something you can bring and play on at tournaments, because tournaments are a ton of fun even when you're not a serious competitor.
Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
March 05 2013 20:07 GMT
#5485
On March 06 2013 03:37 Trumpet wrote:
I don't think there's anything wrong with the xbox controller. Use what's most comfortable for you. Ideally you should use something you can bring and play on at tournaments, because tournaments are a ton of fun even when you're not a serious competitor.


You must have robotic thumbs if you can operate the stock XBox D-Pad. It basically has no diagonals, and super light recoil so double tapping with any directional reliability is impossible. I know SF4 isn't heavy on the D-Pad like GG is, but dear god, I'd be salty if I dropped even one DP on that thing. PS2 pad is much more precise and it's not like it's expensive.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
Duka08
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
3391 Posts
March 05 2013 20:12 GMT
#5486
On March 05 2013 16:57 WindWolf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 15:39 Duka08 wrote:
If you're just playing for fun, then I agree with Cel.erity above. Keyboard works just fine, likely better than controller.

Yeah, I'm playing for fun,I don't even plan to become a C-teamer

And I didn't mean the Xbox controller specifically, I meant hand controls like a Xbox controller. Couldn't think of a better name.

In my opinion, it's not worth spending anything on if you don't plan to play beyond casually. Keyboard works pretty well, and even offers some advantages for some things. If you decide to upgrade to a stick or something down the road, then transitioning isn't that bad, I feel. Just not worth going ahead and spending money on now when you might be happy with keyboard forever.
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
March 05 2013 20:36 GMT
#5487
On March 06 2013 05:12 Duka08 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2013 16:57 WindWolf wrote:
On March 05 2013 15:39 Duka08 wrote:
If you're just playing for fun, then I agree with Cel.erity above. Keyboard works just fine, likely better than controller.

Yeah, I'm playing for fun,I don't even plan to become a C-teamer

And I didn't mean the Xbox controller specifically, I meant hand controls like a Xbox controller. Couldn't think of a better name.

In my opinion, it's not worth spending anything on if you don't plan to play beyond casually. Keyboard works pretty well, and even offers some advantages for some things. If you decide to upgrade to a stick or something down the road, then transitioning isn't that bad, I feel. Just not worth going ahead and spending money on now when you might be happy with keyboard forever.

Yeah, I was planning to start playing with keyboard anyway, and then maybe move on if I need it.

And if I go to a local tournament (In my relatively small city), burrowing a controller shouldn't be that hard
EZ4ENCE
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
March 05 2013 22:41 GMT
#5488
You can get a fight pad ( not fight stick ) for like 20e pretty easily. That's cheap and you can play really well with it.
I have a friend who started with keyboard and was having fun but there's a lot of moves that you can almost never do with it.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
ain
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany786 Posts
March 06 2013 00:01 GMT
#5489
On March 06 2013 07:41 Noocta wrote:
You can get a fight pad ( not fight stick ) for like 20e pretty easily. That's cheap and you can play really well with it.
I have a friend who started with keyboard and was having fun but there's a lot of moves that you can almost never do with it.

That's not true. If you're using a standard arrow key/WASD layout I would agree that some moves are tricky. But if you adjust your control scheme to resemble a hitbox you can do pretty much anything.
Corvi
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Germany1406 Posts
March 08 2013 19:35 GMT
#5490
and since probably barely anyone knows what ^ is meaning with hitbox, let me do some advertising by posting this vid


i recently brought gief/hawk to 3k pp using this technique with a crappy keyboard and believe me, i'm not a high-level player. standing 720 is just gimmicky and i fail 9/10 times, but you can totally play a normal style as well. so no, there are no moves that dont work with keyboard. looks pretty silly though.
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
March 08 2013 20:20 GMT
#5491
As someone who hasn't played much of these kinds of game, it doesn't tell me very much, and I don't know how common fight pads are, but I'm like this:

If the player Freenoob in this video (Swedish commentary of the Swedish e-sports championships) can play his secondary character so well with a fight pad, how hard can it be to use a keyboard to play for fun. I might have to re-bind some keys, but hey I did that in Dota2 as well.
EZ4ENCE
Arckan
Profile Joined September 2010
243 Posts
March 10 2013 08:15 GMT
#5492
Completely new to Street Fighter, outside of knowing a few character's names from the Sega Genesis when I was much younger. I've looked around for beginner guides to learn the terminology and some of the fundamentals of fighting games, but had a few specific questions for starting up:

+ Show Spoiler +
1.) Are there characters that I really should or shouldn't play if I'm trying to learn with no fighting game experience? I've been eyeing Ibuki, but I'm not sure how technical/mechanically demanding she is.

2.) What ways should I go about improving myself? Spamming combos in training? Play through the Arcade Mode?

3.) I'm starting at the same time as a few friends, who have similarly little experience, any tips for playing against beginners as a beginner?

4.) Finally, a personal question to whoever reading, if there was any one thing you wish someone had told you when you were starting (either SF or fighting games in general), what would it be?


Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, I know there are other, bigger SSIV communities I could use, but I've always appreciated the tone of the TeamLiquid community for competitive games.
BliptiX
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada324 Posts
March 10 2013 08:36 GMT
#5493
I'm pretty new myself but I found focusing on blocking, basic mixups and baiting/punishing opponents were a lot more important than learning longer combos.

You'll probably get hit by a lot of aerial attacks into lows/grabs when you first start so spending some time defending against that is wise.

With that said you could abuse the shit out of it if your friends are true beginners. Sweeps and grabs in general are pretty rough for people just starting so you could spam that fierce kick all day.
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12248 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-10 09:11:32
March 10 2013 09:04 GMT
#5494
On March 10 2013 17:15 Arckan wrote:
Completely new to Street Fighter, outside of knowing a few character's names from the Sega Genesis when I was much younger. I've looked around for beginner guides to learn the terminology and some of the fundamentals of fighting games, but had a few specific questions for starting up:
1.) Are there characters that I really should or shouldn't play if I'm trying to learn with no fighting game experience? I've been eyeing Ibuki, but I'm not sure how technical/mechanically demanding she is.

2.) What ways should I go about improving myself? Spamming combos in training? Play through the Arcade Mode?

3.) I'm starting at the same time as a few friends, who have similarly little experience, any tips for playing against beginners as a beginner?

4.) Finally, a personal question to whoever reading, if there was any one thing you wish someone had told you when you were starting (either SF or fighting games in general), what would it be?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, I know there are other, bigger SSIV communities I could use, but I've always appreciated the tone of the TeamLiquid community for competitive games.


1. Yes. Viper, Ibuki, Makoto, Hakan, Gen, anyone with cancels or extra mechanics is pretty difficult to play right off the bat and requires execution above and beyond the rest of the cast. Good starter characters are Balrog, Ryu, Guile, and other characters with good normals. Try out some different characters and see who you're comfortable playing.

2. Arcade Mode isn't going to be of much use because it instills bad habits, much like playing against the computer in Brood War. Your best practice is going to come from playing against other humans. Training mode is helpful for learning combos and certain advanced setups but that's pretty much it.

3. Normals and fundamentals will carry you through any game. Lots of new players tend to focus on button mashing, trying out combos, or spamming special moves. They also jump a lot. Although almost every character has some special move that's used for antiair purposes, they have normals that serve the same purpose and it's easier to press one button than a series of inputs particularly if you have limited experience with fighting games. For example, if you're Balrog, a well-timed crouching heavy punch will beat just about every jumping attack. High-damage moves commonly have a longer range and take longer to come out, meaning they're more easily interrupted than low-damage quick moves such as light attacks.

4. Focus more on normals and stop jumping so much. Jumping is a great way to land really big damage but any half-decent player is going to know how to beat a jump-in. However, jumping does have its place, such as when you correctly predict the opponent will throw a fireball and leave himself open to an aerial attack. You probably already know that holding backward blocks attacks, but there are certain jumping attacks that actually hit as the opponent is jumping over you; this is called a crossup attack and has to be blocked the opposite direction. Usually crossups are quite ambiguous but over time you'll start figuring out how to block them successfully. There are some characters that can throw projectiles and then teleport or jump to your other side, so when this happens, always block in the opposite direction of the opposing character, not the projectile itself.

Personal recommendation: don't use the 360 gamepad if you can help it, you're better off investing in a stick if you plan to play seriously. The more serious, the higher quality the stick you should get. I never used a stick before SF4 and certain inputs were very difficult for me on a gamepad (such as three-punch inputs, quarter-circles, and full circles).

I'm pretty new myself but I found focusing on blocking, basic mixups and baiting/punishing opponents were a lot more important than learning longer combos.

You'll probably get hit by a lot of aerial attacks into lows/grabs when you first start so spending some time defending against that is wise.


Oh yes, this is really good advice too. Every fighting game tends to emphasize big damage combos when it's trying to teach you something, when really the most important skill of all to have is knowing when and how to block.

Once you've spent about a day figuring out your character and how your character's normals work and how to block and defend yourself, learn how to punish your opponent for doing something really unsafe. If you're facing Ryu and you block a fierce Shoryuken, just do some basic normal canceled into a special move that will do more damage than if his Shoryuken had hit you.
Moderator
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
March 10 2013 09:10 GMT
#5495
On March 10 2013 18:04 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2013 17:15 Arckan wrote:
Completely new to Street Fighter, outside of knowing a few character's names from the Sega Genesis when I was much younger. I've looked around for beginner guides to learn the terminology and some of the fundamentals of fighting games, but had a few specific questions for starting up:
1.) Are there characters that I really should or shouldn't play if I'm trying to learn with no fighting game experience? I've been eyeing Ibuki, but I'm not sure how technical/mechanically demanding she is.

2.) What ways should I go about improving myself? Spamming combos in training? Play through the Arcade Mode?

3.) I'm starting at the same time as a few friends, who have similarly little experience, any tips for playing against beginners as a beginner?

4.) Finally, a personal question to whoever reading, if there was any one thing you wish someone had told you when you were starting (either SF or fighting games in general), what would it be?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, I know there are other, bigger SSIV communities I could use, but I've always appreciated the tone of the TeamLiquid community for competitive games.


1. Yes. Viper, Ibuki, Makoto, Hakan, Gen, anyone with cancels or extra mechanics is pretty difficult to play right off the bat and requires execution above and beyond the rest of the cast. Good starter characters are Balrog, Ryu, Guile, and other characters with good normals. Try out some different characters and see who you're comfortable playing.

2. Arcade Mode isn't going to be of much use because it instills bad habits, much like playing against the computer in Brood War. Your best practice is going to come from playing against other humans. Training mode is helpful for learning combos and certain advanced setups but that's pretty much it.

3. Normals and fundamentals will carry you through any game. Lots of new players tend to focus on button mashing, trying out combos, or spamming special moves. They also jump a lot. Although almost every character has some special move that's used for antiair purposes, they have normals that serve the same purpose and it's easier to press one button than a series of inputs particularly if you have limited experience with fighting games. For example, if you're Balrog, a well-timed crouching heavy punch will beat just about every jumping attack. High-damage moves commonly have a longer range and take longer to come out, meaning they're more easily interrupted than low-damage quick moves such as light attacks.

4. Focus more on normals and stop jumping so much. Jumping is a great way to land really big damage but any half-decent player is going to know how to beat a jump-in. However, jumping does have its place, such as when you correctly predict the opponent will throw a fireball and leave himself open to an aerial attack. You probably already know that holding backward blocks attacks, but there are certain jumping attacks that actually hit as the opponent is jumping over you; this is called a crossup attack and has to be blocked the opposite direction. Usually crossups are quite ambiguous but over time you'll start figuring out how to block them successfully. There are some characters that can throw projectiles and then teleport or jump to your other side, so when this happens, always block in the opposite direction of the opposing character, not the projectile itself.

Personal recommendation: don't use the 360 gamepad if you can help it, you're better off investing in a stick if you plan to play seriously. The more serious, the higher quality the stick you should get. I never used a stick before SF4 and certain inputs were very difficult for me on a gamepad (such as three-punch inputs, quarter-circles, and full circles).



I struggle so much trying to do supers on a ps3 pad ;___; (PC version just for context). Using thumbs to do circle movements is horrid imo.
Arckan
Profile Joined September 2010
243 Posts
March 10 2013 09:53 GMT
#5496
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 10 2013 18:04 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 10 2013 17:15 Arckan wrote:
Completely new to Street Fighter, outside of knowing a few character's names from the Sega Genesis when I was much younger. I've looked around for beginner guides to learn the terminology and some of the fundamentals of fighting games, but had a few specific questions for starting up:
1.) Are there characters that I really should or shouldn't play if I'm trying to learn with no fighting game experience? I've been eyeing Ibuki, but I'm not sure how technical/mechanically demanding she is.

2.) What ways should I go about improving myself? Spamming combos in training? Play through the Arcade Mode?

3.) I'm starting at the same time as a few friends, who have similarly little experience, any tips for playing against beginners as a beginner?

4.) Finally, a personal question to whoever reading, if there was any one thing you wish someone had told you when you were starting (either SF or fighting games in general), what would it be?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, I know there are other, bigger SSIV communities I could use, but I've always appreciated the tone of the TeamLiquid community for competitive games.


1. Yes. Viper, Ibuki, Makoto, Hakan, Gen, anyone with cancels or extra mechanics is pretty difficult to play right off the bat and requires execution above and beyond the rest of the cast. Good starter characters are Balrog, Ryu, Guile, and other characters with good normals. Try out some different characters and see who you're comfortable playing.

2. Arcade Mode isn't going to be of much use because it instills bad habits, much like playing against the computer in Brood War. Your best practice is going to come from playing against other humans. Training mode is helpful for learning combos and certain advanced setups but that's pretty much it.

3. Normals and fundamentals will carry you through any game. Lots of new players tend to focus on button mashing, trying out combos, or spamming special moves. They also jump a lot. Although almost every character has some special move that's used for antiair purposes, they have normals that serve the same purpose and it's easier to press one button than a series of inputs particularly if you have limited experience with fighting games. For example, if you're Balrog, a well-timed crouching heavy punch will beat just about every jumping attack. High-damage moves commonly have a longer range and take longer to come out, meaning they're more easily interrupted than low-damage quick moves such as light attacks.

4. Focus more on normals and stop jumping so much. Jumping is a great way to land really big damage but any half-decent player is going to know how to beat a jump-in. However, jumping does have its place, such as when you correctly predict the opponent will throw a fireball and leave himself open to an aerial attack. You probably already know that holding backward blocks attacks, but there are certain jumping attacks that actually hit as the opponent is jumping over you; this is called a crossup attack and has to be blocked the opposite direction. Usually crossups are quite ambiguous but over time you'll start figuring out how to block them successfully. There are some characters that can throw projectiles and then teleport or jump to your other side, so when this happens, always block in the opposite direction of the opposing character, not the projectile itself.

Personal recommendation: don't use the 360 gamepad if you can help it, you're better off investing in a stick if you plan to play seriously. The more serious, the higher quality the stick you should get. I never used a stick before SF4 and certain inputs were very difficult for me on a gamepad (such as three-punch inputs, quarter-circles, and full circles).

Show nested quote +
I'm pretty new myself but I found focusing on blocking, basic mixups and baiting/punishing opponents were a lot more important than learning longer combos.

You'll probably get hit by a lot of aerial attacks into lows/grabs when you first start so spending some time defending against that is wise.


Oh yes, this is really good advice too. Every fighting game tends to emphasize big damage combos when it's trying to teach you something, when really the most important skill of all to have is knowing when and how to block.

Once you've spent about a day figuring out your character and how your character's normals work and how to block and defend yourself, learn how to punish your opponent for doing something really unsafe. If you're facing Ryu and you block a fierce Shoryuken, just do some basic normal canceled into a special move that will do more damage than if his Shoryuken had hit you.



Thanks for the detailed response, I'll probably play someone else for awhile to better learn the fundamentals. You said the best way to improve is by playing against other players; how is the online scene for SSIV? I'm not even sure how the online functions, but I can probably figure that much out with a little Googling. Is the PC or Live community a better option?
Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
March 10 2013 11:45 GMT
#5497
On March 10 2013 17:15 Arckan wrote:
Completely new to Street Fighter, outside of knowing a few character's names from the Sega Genesis when I was much younger. I've looked around for beginner guides to learn the terminology and some of the fundamentals of fighting games, but had a few specific questions for starting up:

+ Show Spoiler +
1.) Are there characters that I really should or shouldn't play if I'm trying to learn with no fighting game experience? I've been eyeing Ibuki, but I'm not sure how technical/mechanically demanding she is.

2.) What ways should I go about improving myself? Spamming combos in training? Play through the Arcade Mode?

3.) I'm starting at the same time as a few friends, who have similarly little experience, any tips for playing against beginners as a beginner?

4.) Finally, a personal question to whoever reading, if there was any one thing you wish someone had told you when you were starting (either SF or fighting games in general), what would it be?


Thanks in advance for any help you can offer, I know there are other, bigger SSIV communities I could use, but I've always appreciated the tone of the TeamLiquid community for competitive games.


1. I'm going to come out and say it doesn't matter how technically demanding your character is. At the beginner level, you're just going to be focusing on your normals and overall gameplan plus some simple BnB's, so you should just play whoever you like. If you're really into cute rushdown ninja girls, you're going to be more motivated to play and learn Ibuki than Guile, which makes you play better. You don't need to do the difficult stuff at the beginning. Your execution will eventually rise to the level of whatever you're trying to do, and then it will be even easier to change characters because you'll have that execution experience.

2. Training Mode is your friend. I would say a 50/50 combination of real matches and Training Mode at the start, where in Training Mode you basically just test out your normals to get a feel for them, and practice some very basic BnBs. Eventually it'll be more like 80/20, but always make mental notes of what you lose to and then hammer out some character specific-stuff in Training Mode after short online sessions.

3. Shouldn't matter who you're playing against, really. Just remember you're not playing to win, you're playing to learn. Teach your friend about your character and learn about his, talk between every match about what you could've done differently, and try stuff to see if it works. Try not to rely on gimmicks or tendencies that your friend has, since that will reinforce bad gameplay habits (like cheesing in Starcraft).

4. "Stop playing Spiral." Oh, but you probably wanted some advice relevant to you. Dunno, I guess "Losing doesn't matter"? You're going to lose, a lot. At the start you'll lose because you're bad (this continues for many years), and then once you become really good, you're still bad. Fighting games can't be played perfectly, so it's even more important to accept and learn from losing.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
March 10 2013 13:16 GMT
#5498
Thanks for the answer from another SF noob.

And I have some other noob questions:

1) Can you play mirror-matches in Street Fighter?

And these questions are asked from a spectator POV
2) How big of a country is Sweden in the Street Figher scene globally?
3) (If yes on q1) Is the Rose mirror interesting to watch?
EZ4ENCE
ain
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany786 Posts
March 10 2013 13:54 GMT
#5499
On March 10 2013 22:16 WindWolf wrote:
Thanks for the answer from another SF noob.

And I have some other noob questions:

1) Can you play mirror-matches in Street Fighter?

And these questions are asked from a spectator POV
2) How big of a country is Sweden in the Street Figher scene globally?
3) (If yes on q1) Is the Rose mirror interesting to watch?


1) Yes.
2) I haven't heard of any swedish players placing high in major tournaments.
3) I would assume so, shes a pretty well-rounded character so its not likely to get cheesy.
pachi
Profile Joined October 2006
Melbourne5338 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-10 14:07:56
March 10 2013 14:07 GMT
#5500
Most publicized tournaments in fighting games are North American or in Japan so scenes outside of those dont get as much exposure. Most known scenes/players in Europe seem to be France and the UK.
The most famous players from Sweden are probably Skatan (Sakura) who played at Canada Cup 2011, and Ixion for being Dan.
Moderatorpachi fanclub http://goto.tl/6DI9 。◕‿◕。
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