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Valhalla18444 Posts
On January 07 2013 22:55 diehilde wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 12:00 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Viper was a demon for me until my defense improved significantly, and I'm playing a character with excellent tools against her. until i could c.mk under burnkicks and, as the poster above said, learned where she is at a frame disadvantage to bust out the c.lp c.mk xx shou, i was pretty free to viper. once i was at the level where those decisions were automatic, it flipped completely. now a Viper has to work really hard to open my Sakura and i actually FEEL the advantage i have on paper in that matchup Huh? I dont think sak has advantage on paper vs viper. If so, pretty much every shoto has which I dont think is true. You are probably playing against vipers who cant zone properly (actually probably only a handful of vipers in the whole world can zone properly). Saks distance game is pretty whack imo, her fireballs are laughable and her air tatsu seems slower than other shotos. If Viper zones correctly and makes sak come to her she should have the advantage imo. Up close sak wins ofc, but who doesnt against viper. MU should be a 5:5.
Sakura's barely a shoto lol. Her Air tatsu is a shitload better than Ryu or Akuma's. Viper has worse options than most against Sakura's knockdown bullshit, and Sakura can achieve similar damage to Viper's max combos without ultra meter. its true most people have the advantage agaisnt viper when they're close to her, but nobody gets the sort of damage and corner carry Sakura gets from being in that situation.
plus sakura has all the defensive tools against viper, a low-profile c.mk, really strong normal anti-airs & air-to-airs. it's definitely in sakura's favor imo
Our Viper retired though, and it's true I haven't fought them next-level motherfuckers like Krone or Latif. The last viper I fought was that guy on team Korea at canada cup and i slaughtered him.. but so did everyone else LOL (he is a total boss tho, <3 Naraks)
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On January 08 2013 09:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 22:55 diehilde wrote:On January 06 2013 12:00 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Viper was a demon for me until my defense improved significantly, and I'm playing a character with excellent tools against her. until i could c.mk under burnkicks and, as the poster above said, learned where she is at a frame disadvantage to bust out the c.lp c.mk xx shou, i was pretty free to viper. once i was at the level where those decisions were automatic, it flipped completely. now a Viper has to work really hard to open my Sakura and i actually FEEL the advantage i have on paper in that matchup Huh? I dont think sak has advantage on paper vs viper. If so, pretty much every shoto has which I dont think is true. You are probably playing against vipers who cant zone properly (actually probably only a handful of vipers in the whole world can zone properly). Saks distance game is pretty whack imo, her fireballs are laughable and her air tatsu seems slower than other shotos. If Viper zones correctly and makes sak come to her she should have the advantage imo. Up close sak wins ofc, but who doesnt against viper. MU should be a 5:5. Sakura's barely a shoto lol. Her Air tatsu is a shitload better than Ryu or Akuma's. Viper has worse options than most against Sakura's knockdown bullshit, and Sakura can achieve similar damage to Viper's max combos without ultra meter. its true most people have the advantage agaisnt viper when they're close to her, but nobody gets the sort of damage and corner carry Sakura gets from being in that situation. plus sakura has all the defensive tools against viper, a low-profile c.mk, really strong normal anti-airs & air-to-airs. it's definitely in sakura's favor imo Our Viper retired though, and it's true I haven't fought them next-level motherfuckers like Krone or Latif. The last viper I fought was that guy on team Korea at canada cup and i slaughtered him.. but so did everyone else LOL (he is a total boss tho, <3 Naraks)
This is why im hesitating in calling the Koreans our new overlords. In SF they have 3 good people (1 of which was raised by the American FGC) and the rest are like, the biggest frauds to ever play the game.
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On January 08 2013 04:26 Kingkosi wrote:I'm going back to 360 and i'm shopping for a new stick or part that will let me use my PS3 stick on 360. So far the two sticks I've been looking at the Qanba and the Omni. Right now the Omni is sold out and will be for sometime so I'm not sure if it's worth waiting for. If anyone has used either of the two sticks or a good controller converter adapter and can help me decide I would appreciate it.
The Q4RAF is very good. If you're in the US, new ones are around $170 shipped from eightarc, and you can probably get a used one for <$150 shipped, if you look around a bit - I've seen a few get sold on SRK.
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On January 08 2013 03:15 YulyaVolkova wrote:
Oh ain, youre on my friend list on PC :o). Im nysashchasam there, think we played a set or two a bit ago?
And yeah I agree, most of the time viper just gets away with lots of stuff she really shouldn't. It actually makes Viper players develop/keep pretty bad habits that get exploited when playing people that actually know what theyre doing. I know my autopilot has loads of holes in it and certain players just seem to jab me out of my own nowhere-near airtight pressure because they actually know where they can.
As far as chars go I main Viper, mained Ryu+Balrog for a bit in the first few months of playing the game and I have loads of other characters I can execute all kinds of stuff on but have absolutely no sense of how to play the neutral game/apply pressure etc. Im still pretty horrible at the game overall and probably gets lots of my wins off of Viper+decent execution. My footsies+pattern recognition/reading ability are both reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally bad.
you are on my friends list too!
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On January 08 2013 09:16 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 22:55 diehilde wrote:On January 06 2013 12:00 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Viper was a demon for me until my defense improved significantly, and I'm playing a character with excellent tools against her. until i could c.mk under burnkicks and, as the poster above said, learned where she is at a frame disadvantage to bust out the c.lp c.mk xx shou, i was pretty free to viper. once i was at the level where those decisions were automatic, it flipped completely. now a Viper has to work really hard to open my Sakura and i actually FEEL the advantage i have on paper in that matchup Huh? I dont think sak has advantage on paper vs viper. If so, pretty much every shoto has which I dont think is true. You are probably playing against vipers who cant zone properly (actually probably only a handful of vipers in the whole world can zone properly). Saks distance game is pretty whack imo, her fireballs are laughable and her air tatsu seems slower than other shotos. If Viper zones correctly and makes sak come to her she should have the advantage imo. Up close sak wins ofc, but who doesnt against viper. MU should be a 5:5. Sakura's barely a shoto lol. Her Air tatsu is a shitload better than Ryu or Akuma's. Viper has worse options than most against Sakura's knockdown bullshit, and Sakura can achieve similar damage to Viper's max combos without ultra meter. its true most people have the advantage agaisnt viper when they're close to her, but nobody gets the sort of damage and corner carry Sakura gets from being in that situation. plus sakura has all the defensive tools against viper, a low-profile c.mk, really strong normal anti-airs & air-to-airs. it's definitely in sakura's favor imo Our Viper retired though, and it's true I haven't fought them next-level motherfuckers like Krone or Latif. The last viper I fought was that guy on team Korea at canada cup and i slaughtered him.. but so did everyone else LOL (he is a total boss tho, <3 Naraks)
Dafuq?? Sak has 540-560 dmg combos without ultra meter??? Doesnt all that scaling hurt her damage in those tatsu loops a bit more? Or do you mean vipers max dmg combos without ultra meter? Im a bit confused here D: Also its probably not as much stun, since viper gets obscene amounts of stun from a jumpin FFF dash sweep.
Also Oni gets pretty much the same dmg/corner carry if he has 2 bars ^^ And all other shotos (cept Dan ^^) have the exact same defensive tools against viper plus a much better shoryu. Thats why I think if sak has the advantage in the mu, pretty much all shotos have.
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Sakuras 4bar dmg is in mid 400s. Scaling kills her damage worse than Evil Ryu's and even Evil Ryu can't hit 500 damage against Abel despite having like a 20+ hit at least 60 damage per hit combo on him(Assuming no corner).
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I've been playing online on PC with Cammy for a week and as I really like to play offensive in this game, I really hate playing against defensive characters in general and particularly ones like Guile or Honda who'll just wait for me to go at them. How should I practice this problem?
Also, I tend to rely too much on cannon ...slide with hadoken motion, which gets easily blocked once opponents get smart. What would be the next transition in trying to put pressure on the opponent?
Thx!
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On January 08 2013 09:58 Lemstar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 04:26 Kingkosi wrote:I'm going back to 360 and i'm shopping for a new stick or part that will let me use my PS3 stick on 360. So far the two sticks I've been looking at the Qanba and the Omni. Right now the Omni is sold out and will be for sometime so I'm not sure if it's worth waiting for. If anyone has used either of the two sticks or a good controller converter adapter and can help me decide I would appreciate it. The Q4RAF is very good. If you're in the US, new ones are around $170 shipped from eightarc, and you can probably get a used one for <$150 shipped, if you look around a bit - I've seen a few get sold on SRK.
Thanks for the reply! Think I'm going to go with the Qanba Blue Ice. If I order it Friday I should get it some time early next week. As soon as I'm back on XBL I'll collect some tags and get some games in some of you.
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On January 09 2013 12:13 MstrSplntr wrote:
I've been playing online on PC with Cammy for a week and as I really like to play offensive in this game, I really hate playing against defensive characters in general and particularly ones like Guile or Honda who'll just wait for me to go at them. How should I practice this problem?
Also, I tend to rely too much on cannon ...slide with hadoken motion, which gets easily blocked once opponents get smart. What would be the next transition in trying to put pressure on the opponent?
Thx!
That thing should rarely be used raw, if so then at max distance. If you do it up close your gonna get a max punish. Learn your combos and Divekicks, Cammys offense is mostly about divekicks mixed up with regular jumpins and crossups (with hk jumpin and lk crossup I think). Oh and Frame Traps/throw mixup when youre in, but when you have only been playing a week you should focus on divekicks and combos first imo. Learn her Combos. Breathe her Combos. The thing with playing defensive characters is to be patient. The round has 99 seconds, you have to remember that. Try to bait out their defensive tools and then punish them for it.
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Holy Shit Latif vs Infiltration exhibition match at SCR, im mad hype ^^
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On January 09 2013 21:46 diehilde wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 12:13 MstrSplntr wrote:
I've been playing online on PC with Cammy for a week and as I really like to play offensive in this game, I really hate playing against defensive characters in general and particularly ones like Guile or Honda who'll just wait for me to go at them. How should I practice this problem?
Also, I tend to rely too much on cannon ...slide with hadoken motion, which gets easily blocked once opponents get smart. What would be the next transition in trying to put pressure on the opponent?
Thx!
That thing should rarely be used raw, if so then at max distance. If you do it up close your gonna get a max punish. Learn your combos and Divekicks, Cammys offense is mostly about divekicks mixed up with regular jumpins and crossups (with hk jumpin and lk crossup I think). Oh and Frame Traps/throw mixup when youre in, but when you have only been playing a week you should focus on divekicks and combos first imo. Learn her Combos. Breathe her Combos. The thing with playing defensive characters is to be patient. The round has 99 seconds, you have to remember that. Try to bait out their defensive tools and then punish them for it.
How about some blockstrings or frametraps to start with Cammy?
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On January 13 2013 03:49 diehilde wrote:
Holy Shit Latif vs Infiltration exhibition match at SCR, im mad hype ^^
When?
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On January 13 2013 05:00 ain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 03:49 diehilde wrote:
Holy Shit Latif vs Infiltration exhibition match at SCR, im mad hype ^^ When?
Next weekend at SCR
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Having a lot of trouble against a Bison friend of mine with Oni. Lots of places seem to mention using an OS tatsu but I'm not actually sure how or when. He and other charge chars feel too safe to ever punish, and I just resort to Oni's (relatively poor) zoning and succumb to the pressure eventually.
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Neutral jump his Scissor kick and punish with 480 damage with 2 bars. You can also LK Stomp semi-randomly and it works against that as well.
I wonder if you can option select his wakeup with ultra 2, it should at least catch most of his options. You can just meaty with Electric Fireball to be safe and chip him a little.
You can punish Psycho Crusher with f.HP
His main anti-air is s.HK and you can mess that up pretty well with airdash and tatsu cancels in the air.
s.HP beats all his jumpins when timed right.
MK Stomp isn't bad on his wakeup, it beats mash, teching, backdash, etc. and he can't punish it properly if he blocks(Bison never blocks on wakeup though). EX Psycho whiffs as well. Stomp might hit though but yeah.
He's going to get a lot of small hits in but you only need 2 clean hits to win the round. Don't use fireballs to zone, they suck.
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On January 13 2013 18:54 Shikyo wrote:
Neutral jump his Scissor kick and punish with 480 damage with 2 bars. You can also LK Stomp semi-randomly and it works against that as well.
I wonder if you can option select his wakeup with ultra 2, it should at least catch most of his options. You can just meaty with Electric Fireball to be safe and chip him a little.
You can punish Psycho Crusher with f.HP
His main anti-air is s.HK and you can mess that up pretty well with airdash and tatsu cancels in the air.
s.HP beats all his jumpins when timed right.
MK Stomp isn't bad on his wakeup, it beats mash, teching, backdash, etc. and he can't punish it properly if he blocks(Bison never blocks on wakeup though). EX Psycho whiffs as well. Stomp might hit though but yeah.
He's going to get a lot of small hits in but you only need 2 clean hits to win the round. Don't use fireballs to zone, they suck.
Decent advice except for MK stomp on wakeup. Dont do that thats a scrubby tactic. Might work on low levels but is a bad habit to develop. Good Bisons will punish with cr.MKxxScissors every time. Almost the entire cast can punish MK stomp on block, its -6, lower players just dont get the timing right often.
Oh and what is the question about the OS of choice with oni? Hes got pretty much the best dp in the game, no reason to not go for DP OS. Once Bison does teleport on wakeup to escape just mix it up with OS EX Slash or OS Light Slash into Combo (not 100% sure if the timing works out, try in training mode). But except for teleport DP should cover all options bison has.
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On January 09 2013 12:13 MstrSplntr wrote:
I've been playing online on PC with Cammy for a week and as I really like to play offensive in this game, I really hate playing against defensive characters in general and particularly ones like Guile or Honda who'll just wait for me to go at them. How should I practice this problem?
Also, I tend to rely too much on cannon ...slide with hadoken motion, which gets easily blocked once opponents get smart. What would be the next transition in trying to put pressure on the opponent?
Thx!
You definitely want to learn footsies if you can. frame traps, dive kick and cross over mixups will definitely help your game. Try focusing on applying pressure by frame traps and a lot of normals. crouching short, walk up slightly, another crouching short, follow by a walk up throw. I'd say more but I'm my phone.
also, learn when to jump in at the most perfect if not random time. If a guile sits back and crouch, he is waiting for a jump. break that habit by walking close, throw out a fake or even jump at the exact time he throws a sonic boom.
Btw guys, shoot me a message saying you're from TL and add me on PC: MyviTeddy
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I feel like that match (Latif vs Infiltration) was a reasonable example of what I was trying to get across in a few posts recently. Latif literally couldnt do anything. To put it in perspective this is the #1->#3 viper in the world depending on how you rate kyabetsu and wolfkrone. Every one of vipers midrange options is susceptible to reaction responses once the opponents get to a particularly high level. She cant burnkick, it can be countered (ie you do damage to viper) on reaction. She cant seismo and ever get it to actually hit people, its countered far too easily (and safely) on reaction by things like focus, spending alot of time in the air etc or just coming at viper in a reasonably safe manner (you closer than 2/3 screen vs viper = shes not going to non-ex seismo unless she likes gambling for 40% of her health). Her normals are pretty awful for footsies so anytime shes trying to engage in that kinda range it doesnt go so well.
Then look at the sick mixups Latif managed to get on Infiltration the few times he managed to get a knockdown. Like..walk up throw. Because thats....Viper. She doesnt have an abundance of sick setups off of all kinds of knockdowns into funky hard to defend against shit which does loads of damage. She mostly has the generic street fighter mixup all characters have, throw or meaty/delayed meaty...and then burnkick! Which does 90 damage into a terrible knockdown.
Granted, Infiltration is on another level right now, but that was an utter dismantling. Latif not only lost all but 3 (that right?) rounds, but in the rounds that he lost did absolute jack shit to Infiltration at any point. They were not close. The rounds Latif won I believe mostly came off of random Infiltration fuckups that allowed Latif to ultra.
Pretty soon we're probably going to see people like Latif/Krone stop going for burnkicks etc because it simply wont work vs most of the player pool they meet deep in tournaments. At that point, what in the fuck is vipers advantage? Awful normals, counterable zoning (although good in some matchups), throw in a single burnkick every 3 rounds just because they wont be looking for it. Is she meant to solely rely on being able to setup ultra often? Do Vipers have to start playing like Haitani (Makoto) often does with passively focusing to ultra->start going aggessive with the threat of the ultra stock? We shall see.
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On January 19 2013 14:58 YulyaVolkova wrote:
I feel like that match (Latif vs Infiltration) was a reasonable example of what I was trying to get across in a few posts recently. Latif literally couldnt do anything. To put it in perspective this is the #1->#3 viper in the world depending on how you rate kyabetsu and wolfkrone. Every one of vipers midrange options is susceptible to reaction responses once the opponents get to a particularly high level. She cant burnkick, it can be countered (ie you do damage to viper) on reaction. She cant seismo and ever get it to actually hit people, its countered far too easily (and safely) on reaction by things like focus, spending alot of time in the air etc or just coming at viper in a reasonably safe manner (you closer than 2/3 screen vs viper = shes not going to non-ex seismo unless she likes gambling for 40% of her health). Her normals are pretty awful for footsies so anytime shes trying to engage in that kinda range it doesnt go so well.
Then look at the sick mixups Latif managed to get on Infiltration the few times he managed to get a knockdown. Like..walk up throw. Because thats....Viper. She doesnt have an abundance of sick setups off of all kinds of knockdowns into funky hard to defend against shit which does loads of damage. She mostly has the generic street fighter mixup all characters have, throw or meaty/delayed meaty...and then burnkick! Which does 90 damage into a terrible knockdown.
Granted, Infiltration is on another level right now, but that was an utter dismantling. Latif not only lost all but 3 (that right?) rounds, but in the rounds that he lost did absolute jack shit to Infiltration at any point. They were not close. The rounds Latif won I believe mostly came off of random Infiltration fuckups that allowed Latif to ultra.
Pretty soon we're probably going to see people like Latif/Krone stop going for burnkicks etc because it simply wont work vs most of the player pool they meet deep in tournaments. At that point, what in the fuck is vipers advantage? Awful normals, counterable zoning (although good in some matchups), throw in a single burnkick every 3 rounds just because they wont be looking for it. Is she meant to solely rely on being able to setup ultra often? Do Vipers have to start playing like Haitani (Makoto) often does with passively focusing to ultra->start going aggessive with the threat of the ultra stock? We shall see.
Infilitration makes every character in the game look awful.
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On January 19 2013 15:06 Fiercegore wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 14:58 YulyaVolkova wrote:
I feel like that match (Latif vs Infiltration) was a reasonable example of what I was trying to get across in a few posts recently. Latif literally couldnt do anything. To put it in perspective this is the #1->#3 viper in the world depending on how you rate kyabetsu and wolfkrone. Every one of vipers midrange options is susceptible to reaction responses once the opponents get to a particularly high level. She cant burnkick, it can be countered (ie you do damage to viper) on reaction. She cant seismo and ever get it to actually hit people, its countered far too easily (and safely) on reaction by things like focus, spending alot of time in the air etc or just coming at viper in a reasonably safe manner (you closer than 2/3 screen vs viper = shes not going to non-ex seismo unless she likes gambling for 40% of her health). Her normals are pretty awful for footsies so anytime shes trying to engage in that kinda range it doesnt go so well.
Then look at the sick mixups Latif managed to get on Infiltration the few times he managed to get a knockdown. Like..walk up throw. Because thats....Viper. She doesnt have an abundance of sick setups off of all kinds of knockdowns into funky hard to defend against shit which does loads of damage. She mostly has the generic street fighter mixup all characters have, throw or meaty/delayed meaty...and then burnkick! Which does 90 damage into a terrible knockdown.
Granted, Infiltration is on another level right now, but that was an utter dismantling. Latif not only lost all but 3 (that right?) rounds, but in the rounds that he lost did absolute jack shit to Infiltration at any point. They were not close. The rounds Latif won I believe mostly came off of random Infiltration fuckups that allowed Latif to ultra.
Pretty soon we're probably going to see people like Latif/Krone stop going for burnkicks etc because it simply wont work vs most of the player pool they meet deep in tournaments. At that point, what in the fuck is vipers advantage? Awful normals, counterable zoning (although good in some matchups), throw in a single burnkick every 3 rounds just because they wont be looking for it. Is she meant to solely rely on being able to setup ultra often? Do Vipers have to start playing like Haitani (Makoto) often does with passively focusing to ultra->start going aggessive with the threat of the ultra stock? We shall see.
Infilitration makes every character in the game look awful.
For the most part yeah, still think points about viper specifically stand :o).
Edit: Also while its kinda the topic:
Why do you all think Infiltration is dominating so hard? He claims to have only started with vanilla SF4 with no previous fighting game experiences. Uber talented people do exist but hes literally destroying people like Daigo regularly and making it look easy as fuck.
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