On January 20 2013 07:47 Redmark wrote: Talent most certainly exists but as a long history of controversy and failure in intelligence testing suggests that quantifying it is kind of pointless.
In any case most people would agree that out of the top N factors that make someone a good fighting game player, physical limitations rank fairly low. Even players with good 'reactions' typically are just more adept at distinguishing certain graphical tells and/or more focused as opposed to just incredible twitch action.
Sorry to incite a conversation about this in the SSF4 thread but, where is the proof for that statement?
On January 20 2013 07:47 Redmark wrote: Talent most certainly exists but as a long history of controversy and failure in intelligence testing suggests that quantifying it is kind of pointless.
In any case most people would agree that out of the top N factors that make someone a good fighting game player, physical limitations rank fairly low. Even players with good 'reactions' typically are just more adept at distinguishing certain graphical tells and/or more focused as opposed to just incredible twitch action.
Sorry to incite a conversation about this in the SSF4 thread but, where is the proof for that statement?
If you are not willing to accept that everybody's brain processes different types of information differently, then you're just uninformed and there isn't much to discuss.
On January 20 2013 01:21 Shikyo wrote: Keep in mind latif is quite overrated these days. Can't remember him accomplishing anything in forever and he didn't look all that good there either. Infiltration even messed up his comboes a few times. Latif mostly kept getting caught low and he just failed to adapt properly.
I think that many other top players could have 7-0d latif as well, even if Infiltration is the best player at the moment.
Also will this tournament have marvel? far more interested in it than SF atm.
Yeah as diehilde mentioned, Latif is not overrated. Not attending almost anything in 2012 = he isnt going to win a whole lot of tournaments. The 1-2 tournaments he did enter he got far in and he was knocked out of evo2012 by Daigo+one other really good player I cant remember.
He also went to Japan for a month or two earlier this year and rose to 100,000+ bp in the arcades faster than anyone else has apparently ever done.
He says hes going to be attending many tournaments this year so we'll see what shape hes in over the next year.
On January 20 2013 01:21 Shikyo wrote: Keep in mind latif is quite overrated these days. Can't remember him accomplishing anything in forever and he didn't look all that good there either. Infiltration even messed up his comboes a few times. Latif mostly kept getting caught low and he just failed to adapt properly.
I think that many other top players could have 7-0d latif as well, even if Infiltration is the best player at the moment.
Also will this tournament have marvel? far more interested in it than SF atm.
Yeah as diehilde mentioned, Latif is not overrated. Not attending almost anything in 2012 = he isnt going to win a whole lot of tournaments. The 1-2 tournaments he did enter he got far in and he was knocked out of evo2012 by Daigo+one other really good player I cant remember.
He also went to Japan for a month or two earlier this year and rose to 100,000+ bp in the arcades faster than anyone else has apparently ever done.
He says hes going to be attending many tournaments this year so we'll see what shape hes in over the next year.
Since there's so much talk about Infiltration. Here's a video podcast (created before EVO 2K12) that explains some of the reasons why he is so good. The podcast is by none other then the biggest Infiltration fanboy of them all, UltraDavid.
On January 20 2013 01:21 Shikyo wrote: Keep in mind latif is quite overrated these days. Can't remember him accomplishing anything in forever and he didn't look all that good there either. Infiltration even messed up his comboes a few times. Latif mostly kept getting caught low and he just failed to adapt properly.
I think that many other top players could have 7-0d latif as well, even if Infiltration is the best player at the moment.
Also will this tournament have marvel? far more interested in it than SF atm.
Yeah as diehilde mentioned, Latif is not overrated. Not attending almost anything in 2012 = he isnt going to win a whole lot of tournaments. The 1-2 tournaments he did enter he got far in and he was knocked out of evo2012 by Daigo+one other really good player I cant remember.
He also went to Japan for a month or two earlier this year and rose to 100,000+ bp in the arcades faster than anyone else has apparently ever done.
He says hes going to be attending many tournaments this year so we'll see what shape hes in over the next year.
Rankings say he is below 100k.
He may have dropped, ive seen recordings of him playing and being 100k+ and the info about him getting to 100k fastest came from him in a comment on one of his youtube channels videos.
Why do you all think Infiltration is dominating so hard? He claims to have only started with vanilla SF4 with no previous fighting game experiences. Uber talented people do exist but hes literally destroying people like Daigo regularly and making it look easy as fuck.
I'm pretty sure he was a Tekken player before SF4.
There is no such thing as talent. Only dedicated practice and meticulous analysis.
Of course there is such a thing as talent. Some people are naturally better at certain things due to genetics, cultural inheritance, or the way their brain processes thought. We don't start out as a blank slate, and everybody's optimum potential is different.
Genetics are irrelevant unless we are talking about the severe cases (such as "savant syndrome", which is poorly understood at the moment). The vast majority of people who are notably talented in a field do not have these.
Cultural inheritance is not "naturally better". What does that even mean anyway?
See extreme cases of genetic difference which are non-applicable to 99% of the population.
False. Studies have consistently showed that exceptional performance corresponds with time spent and methodology; neither IQ nor experience have consistent correlation. Talent is a myth that only developed in Western culture during the late 19th century thanks to a misinterpretation of Darwinism in social theory.
Phelps and Bolt just clearly put in double the practice compared to their fellow Olympians then, correct?
Why do you all think Infiltration is dominating so hard? He claims to have only started with vanilla SF4 with no previous fighting game experiences. Uber talented people do exist but hes literally destroying people like Daigo regularly and making it look easy as fuck.
I'm pretty sure he was a Tekken player before SF4.
There is no such thing as talent. Only dedicated practice and meticulous analysis.
Of course there is such a thing as talent. Some people are naturally better at certain things due to genetics, cultural inheritance, or the way their brain processes thought. We don't start out as a blank slate, and everybody's optimum potential is different.
Genetics are irrelevant unless we are talking about the severe cases (such as "savant syndrome", which is poorly understood at the moment). The vast majority of people who are notably talented in a field do not have these.
Cultural inheritance is not "naturally better". What does that even mean anyway?
See extreme cases of genetic difference which are non-applicable to 99% of the population.
False. Studies have consistently showed that exceptional performance corresponds with time spent and methodology; neither IQ nor experience have consistent correlation. Talent is a myth that only developed in Western culture during the late 19th century thanks to a misinterpretation of Darwinism in social theory.
Phelps and Bolt just clearly put in double the practice compared to their fellow Olympians then, correct?
Or perhaps they trained for the same length of time but did so more efficiently.
Why do you all think Infiltration is dominating so hard? He claims to have only started with vanilla SF4 with no previous fighting game experiences. Uber talented people do exist but hes literally destroying people like Daigo regularly and making it look easy as fuck.
I'm pretty sure he was a Tekken player before SF4.
There is no such thing as talent. Only dedicated practice and meticulous analysis.
Of course there is such a thing as talent. Some people are naturally better at certain things due to genetics, cultural inheritance, or the way their brain processes thought. We don't start out as a blank slate, and everybody's optimum potential is different.
Genetics are irrelevant unless we are talking about the severe cases (such as "savant syndrome", which is poorly understood at the moment). The vast majority of people who are notably talented in a field do not have these.
Cultural inheritance is not "naturally better". What does that even mean anyway?
See extreme cases of genetic difference which are non-applicable to 99% of the population.
False. Studies have consistently showed that exceptional performance corresponds with time spent and methodology; neither IQ nor experience have consistent correlation. Talent is a myth that only developed in Western culture during the late 19th century thanks to a misinterpretation of Darwinism in social theory.
Phelps and Bolt just clearly put in double the practice compared to their fellow Olympians then, correct?
Or perhaps they trained for the same length of time but did so more efficiently.
And if that is the case, how are they able to train more efficiently than their counterparts?
Why do you all think Infiltration is dominating so hard? He claims to have only started with vanilla SF4 with no previous fighting game experiences. Uber talented people do exist but hes literally destroying people like Daigo regularly and making it look easy as fuck.
I'm pretty sure he was a Tekken player before SF4.
There is no such thing as talent. Only dedicated practice and meticulous analysis.
Of course there is such a thing as talent. Some people are naturally better at certain things due to genetics, cultural inheritance, or the way their brain processes thought. We don't start out as a blank slate, and everybody's optimum potential is different.
Genetics are irrelevant unless we are talking about the severe cases (such as "savant syndrome", which is poorly understood at the moment). The vast majority of people who are notably talented in a field do not have these.
Cultural inheritance is not "naturally better". What does that even mean anyway?
See extreme cases of genetic difference which are non-applicable to 99% of the population.
False. Studies have consistently showed that exceptional performance corresponds with time spent and methodology; neither IQ nor experience have consistent correlation. Talent is a myth that only developed in Western culture during the late 19th century thanks to a misinterpretation of Darwinism in social theory.
Phelps and Bolt just clearly put in double the practice compared to their fellow Olympians then, correct?
Or perhaps they trained for the same length of time but did so more efficiently.
And if that is the case, how are they able to train more efficiently than their counterparts?
stop arguing semantics. "Talent" does not exist in an empirical way like a fuckin stone or tree exists, its just an expression in everyday language to summarize traits of individuals that are relevant to being good at a certain task. And I dont think anyone would argue these traits exist.
On January 20 2013 07:47 Redmark wrote: Talent most certainly exists but as a long history of controversy and failure in intelligence testing suggests that quantifying it is kind of pointless.
In any case most people would agree that out of the top N factors that make someone a good fighting game player, physical limitations rank fairly low. Even players with good 'reactions' typically are just more adept at distinguishing certain graphical tells and/or more focused as opposed to just incredible twitch action.
Sorry to incite a conversation about this in the SSF4 thread but, where is the proof for that statement?
If you are not willing to accept that everybody's brain processes different types of information differently, then you're just uninformed and there isn't much to discuss.
I'm pretty willing to accept that brain plasticity continues throughout your entire life. The fact that everyone's brain processes different types of information differently is nothing more than the mundane observation that individuals are different, and innate differences have not been shown to be a major factor in why people are better at some tasks than others. However, noticeable differences show up after putting significant time into doing the same things over and over again.
Why do you all think Infiltration is dominating so hard? He claims to have only started with vanilla SF4 with no previous fighting game experiences. Uber talented people do exist but hes literally destroying people like Daigo regularly and making it look easy as fuck.
I'm pretty sure he was a Tekken player before SF4.
There is no such thing as talent. Only dedicated practice and meticulous analysis.
Of course there is such a thing as talent. Some people are naturally better at certain things due to genetics, cultural inheritance, or the way their brain processes thought. We don't start out as a blank slate, and everybody's optimum potential is different.
Genetics are irrelevant unless we are talking about the severe cases (such as "savant syndrome", which is poorly understood at the moment). The vast majority of people who are notably talented in a field do not have these.
Cultural inheritance is not "naturally better". What does that even mean anyway?
See extreme cases of genetic difference which are non-applicable to 99% of the population.
False. Studies have consistently showed that exceptional performance corresponds with time spent and methodology; neither IQ nor experience have consistent correlation. Talent is a myth that only developed in Western culture during the late 19th century thanks to a misinterpretation of Darwinism in social theory.
Phelps and Bolt just clearly put in double the practice compared to their fellow Olympians then, correct?
Or trained much more efficiently than their fellow counterparts. The most famous representatives of their specific craft (Jerry Rice, Mozart, etc.) were considered mediocre during their early years. They were not anything special when they started out.
Why do you all think Infiltration is dominating so hard? He claims to have only started with vanilla SF4 with no previous fighting game experiences. Uber talented people do exist but hes literally destroying people like Daigo regularly and making it look easy as fuck.
I'm pretty sure he was a Tekken player before SF4.
There is no such thing as talent. Only dedicated practice and meticulous analysis.
Of course there is such a thing as talent. Some people are naturally better at certain things due to genetics, cultural inheritance, or the way their brain processes thought. We don't start out as a blank slate, and everybody's optimum potential is different.
Genetics are irrelevant unless we are talking about the severe cases (such as "savant syndrome", which is poorly understood at the moment). The vast majority of people who are notably talented in a field do not have these.
Cultural inheritance is not "naturally better". What does that even mean anyway?
See extreme cases of genetic difference which are non-applicable to 99% of the population.
False. Studies have consistently showed that exceptional performance corresponds with time spent and methodology; neither IQ nor experience have consistent correlation. Talent is a myth that only developed in Western culture during the late 19th century thanks to a misinterpretation of Darwinism in social theory.
Phelps and Bolt just clearly put in double the practice compared to their fellow Olympians then, correct?
Or perhaps they trained for the same length of time but did so more efficiently.
And if that is the case, how are they able to train more efficiently than their counterparts?
Access to talanted training partners.
Not necessarily, although feedback from contemporaries is important.
On January 21 2013 07:10 diehilde wrote: stop arguing semantics. "Talent" does not exist in an empirical way like a fuckin stone or tree exists, its just an expression in everyday language to summarize traits of individuals that are relevant to being good at a certain task. And I dont think anyone would argue these traits exist.
The definition of talent is explicitly different than that of mere "traits", so it's seems like you are arguing semantics the wrong way lmao. Robots are not talented despite performing exactly according to function, artists are not all talented despite knowing the basic principles behind their work.
On January 19 2013 15:52 YulyaVolkova wrote: Why do you all think Infiltration is dominating so hard? He claims to have only started with vanilla SF4 with no previous fighting game experiences. Uber talented people do exist but hes literally destroying people like Daigo regularly and making it look easy as fuck.
It boils down to a couple of things:
1. He only plays two games seriously, SF4 and SFxT. He is getting into Marvel but he is not dedicating too much time to it. 2. He plays every single day for maybe, 10-12 hours? 3. He is willing to exploit the weaknesses of matchups and disregard the player in the process. 4. In SF4 he is meticulous about practicing his setups, frame data and spacing. 5. He has a good training partner in Laugh. 6. In the past he was a very good player but would always lose against the best. He had a mental block. 7. He works very hard to neutralize bad matchups against his Akuma. Every time he has lost against a particular character, he plays differently the next time he faces it.
So I wouldn't say it's anything amazing other than he puts in the time and effort along with a good sense of self-awareness. Infiltration was also slept on for a while despite making EVO top 8 two years in a row.
EPT
