On August 11 2012 00:23 Shikyo wrote: Btw keyboard is a million billion times better than a pad so I'd use that. Makes transitioning to a stick easier as well.
Your tool doesn't matter, if it did I doubt that Wolfkrone would be have been able to be so dominant with C.Viper with a pad last year. It just depends on what you're most comfortable with, if anything pad is better because it doesn't require an extra investment in the game.
Of course it matters. Also I'm assuming he owns a keyboard but those cost like 5 bucks anyway
There are plenty of high-level pad players =X
And there are plenty of high-level players who use terrible suboptimal comboes(Combofiend I'm looking at you).
The question is, would combofiend be better off doing good comboes instead of bad comboes? Would those high-level players be better off using a stick instead of a pad?
On August 11 2012 00:23 Shikyo wrote: Btw keyboard is a million billion times better than a pad so I'd use that. Makes transitioning to a stick easier as well.
Your tool doesn't matter, if it did I doubt that Wolfkrone would be have been able to be so dominant with C.Viper with a pad last year. It just depends on what you're most comfortable with, if anything pad is better because it doesn't require an extra investment in the game.
Of course it matters. Also I'm assuming he owns a keyboard but those cost like 5 bucks anyway
Are you implying that Fanatiq and Wolfkrone would be a million times better if they were using a stick/keyboard/hitbox instead of a pad?
Why does it have to be a million times. Do you not think a couple percent is significant?
Also, maybe the Xbox controllers are more durable, but back when I played SSBM I must have wrecked at least 10 controllers. One good Senwa stick is going to last quite a while... It might even be cheaper in the long run, don't you think?
On August 10 2012 05:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: juri's too advanced for new players. there's like no good Juri players around. she'd be on a very short list of characters that i wouldn't recommend a new player try to use on pad, which includes viper and gen. everyone else, if you're comfortable on pad, you'll do just fine. there's nothing especially difficult execution-wise in sf4 as compared to other fighting games, just link timing (which is pretty unique to sf4, i don't think i've ever played another fighter that's so link-heavy. i like it!)
Though I agree with you for the most part, Juri on pad is not hard at all. I can actually hold all 3 kicks while playing normally, but maybe I'm some kind of supernatural pad-freak. I guess it might be hard if you use one of those pads with the 6-button layout, but I use shoulders.
Yeah if you play as Juri you must assign her LK to a shoulder button. I guess it's doable but meh.
Also Oni's cr.HP frame trap after a single jab in midscreen comboes into EX-Lightning Fireball which surprisingly enough comboes into his ultra. 483 damage not so bad for a frame trap that gives him +12 frames on block too.
On August 10 2012 11:44 rwrzr wrote:
On August 10 2012 11:31 Cel.erity wrote:
On August 10 2012 05:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: juri's too advanced for new players. there's like no good Juri players around. she'd be on a very short list of characters that i wouldn't recommend a new player try to use on pad, which includes viper and gen. everyone else, if you're comfortable on pad, you'll do just fine. there's nothing especially difficult execution-wise in sf4 as compared to other fighting games, just link timing (which is pretty unique to sf4, i don't think i've ever played another fighter that's so link-heavy. i like it!)
Though I agree with you for the most part, Juri on pad is not hard at all. I can actually hold all 3 kicks while playing normally, but maybe I'm some kind of supernatural pad-freak. I guess it might be hard if you use one of those pads with the 6-button layout, but I use shoulders.
On the Gen forums there are quite a few Gen pad players. That being said I think holding buttons is just a strange idea in a game where most moves involves button presses and stick motions.
The reason I don't like Juri for new players is that her Ultra is just an extension of her offense. It isn't as convenient as Ryu's Shoryuken FADC Ultra. If anything it reminds me of a Genei Jin which you have to take damage to use.
Her ultra's way better than Ginei Jin, 4 super bars is a huge price whereas ultras are free every round.
On August 10 2012 04:49 zelgadissan wrote: So update on my previous post (new to the game, starting Juri) - I want to get a stick but I won't really have the spare cash for a decent one ($100 minimum) for about a month so I'm trying to play on PC using a 360 controller.
I'm having serious issues with her gameplay, such as storing fuhajins while still doing things like her shikusen or senpusha. I'm also having problems getting timing on combos down, I feel like I'm going fast enough but a lot of times I'll drop combos, for example EX shikusen into U2, I apparently input just a little too slowly and I whiff the ultra.
I assume that things like this will get better with time, but out of curiosity are there any characters that I should realistically not expect to be able to play well until I have a stick?
Btw keyboard is a million billion times better than a pad so I'd use that. Makes transitioning to a stick easier as well.
Juri's ultra is nowhere near as powerful a tool as Genei-Jin. you can't weigh super bar vs ultra bar like that. FSE isn't magically better because you get it every round. Genei-Jin is seriously like... it's not even close which is stronger
Of course I can. Supers are innately much better than ultras in general - They can be comboed into from like everything and they don't have stupid scaling, for starters. 4 bars is a price that you indeed must consider. That's like comparing a 0 bar punish combo and a double FADC 4 bar punish combo, isn't that right?
Of course in head-to-head comparison Ginei Jin is pretty good. However, the comboes take a physically long time(hurts the timer), his comboes don't deal as much damage, and of course... He won't have FADCs to utilize. In mixups... Well, they both are very good. However, I think that Juri does get more out of it especially after landing that single hit.
that analysis makes no sense whatsoever man. the fact that you can confirm into Genei-Jin makes it 100x better than FSE. it's dumb to compare them in the first place, but Genei-Jin is waaaaaaaay stronger
and no, not all supers are universally better than ultras, what kinda statement is that lol
Fake Steve is correct. Genei-Jin can be obtained multiple times a round, and with certain enders you're nearly back to getting another one when the Genei-Jin ends. It also can be confirmed of a variety of attacks. It's not really even a close comparison. It does great damage and you'll only need two to kill nearly the entire cast. Since whiffing normals builds meter, between that and just general fighting building two isn't that hard.
Also you aren't accurately considering what goes into comparing a super and an ultra. For example many characters the opportunity cost of a super (not performing EX moves) is much more damaging to their strategy than the advantage a super gives them. Take someone like Cammy who has no real effective way to land an overhead without her EX divekick. Though her ultra allows her to shutdown certain options (fireballs, can option select against teleports, etc), and for the price of an FADC she can add damage to any landed cannon spike.
It really depends on the character and the situation.
Wolfkrone plays on a pad because its easier to fierce-feint-fierce as viper on a pad. That's the big reason why he prefers pad over stick, there might be underlying preferences or something, but the main reason he chooses to play on pad is because of his character.
On August 11 2012 05:01 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: that analysis makes no sense whatsoever man. the fact that you can confirm into Genei-Jin makes it 100x better than FSE. it's dumb to compare them in the first place, but Genei-Jin is waaaaaaaay stronger
and no, not all supers are universally better than ultras, what kinda statement is that lol
You can confirm into all supers... And in general supers have better mechanics than ultras. And Juri can confirm into her ultra, off any jumpin and ex dive kick at the very least, as well as off a FADC. Also it's convenient to ignore the 4 bar cost but if you save for a Genei Jin you are putting yourself in quite a disadvantage.
Genei Jin lasts for a very short time. You can't afford to hard kd because you'll waste the timer while they wake up. Juri's ultra lasts significantly longer.
Also... Have you considered this? If you confirm into Genei Jin off some hit confirm.....
It's very likely that a normal 350~ damage super would have ended up dealing more damage overall. You can combo into all of them you know. Genei Jin scales your damage really hard. Also, if you confirm into it its mixup potential is worth nothing at all. Zero.
A random example I hastily looked up, 1:13:
Wouldn't you agree that a random 350 dmg super would have dealt just as much damage? If you'll ask why he hit so many times before using Genei Jin, well... If you can link them normally, why waste the timer of Genei Jin? Outcome's going to be the same anyway.
FSE lasts for longer but more importantly, her comboes are much faster. This means that you get more effective time out of it.
Not too surprised though as almost everyone underestimates FSE whereas they know all about Genei Jin due to the time before AE2012.
On August 11 2012 05:17 ShatterStar wrote: Fake Steve is correct. Genei-Jin can be obtained multiple times a round, and with certain enders you're nearly back to getting another one when the Genei-Jin ends. It also can be confirmed of a variety of attacks. It's not really even a close comparison. It does great damage and you'll only need two to kill nearly the entire cast. Since whiffing normals builds meter, between that and just general fighting building two isn't that hard.
Also you aren't accurately considering what goes into comparing a super and an ultra. For example many characters the opportunity cost of a super (not performing EX moves) is much more damaging to their strategy than the advantage a super gives them. Take someone like Cammy who has no real effective way to land an overhead without her EX divekick. Though her ultra allows her to shutdown certain options (fireballs, can option select against teleports, etc), and for the price of an FADC she can add damage to any landed cannon spike.
It really depends on the character and the situation.
What? Just so that you know, you can't gain meter during Genei-Jin lol. Also you aren't going to get two in a round, what on earth are you smoking? You are very likely not going to even get a single Ginei-Jin in a round, perhaps at the very end.
How am I not accurately considering that? That's exactly what I'm doing - Yun suffers alot from saving those 4 bars while Juri gets her ultra for no cost.
by the way, if your online games are free from lag spikes and only come with input delay, 1 frame links or compilicated combos should not be any harder to do right? the main problem is anything thats based on reaction isnt it?
On August 12 2012 03:00 whoso wrote: by the way, if your online games are free from lag spikes and only come with input delay, 1 frame links or compilicated combos should not be any harder to do right? the main problem is anything thats based on reaction isnt it?
That's right. If you're doing your 1 frame links based on muscle rhythm rather than visual or audio cues, your execution won't be impaired at all as long as the connection is steady. The main problem comes with subtle lag spikes because unlike the obvious ones where the game freezes up for a second or two, you can't properly adjust your timing.
So I found this guide to Yun by the CC guys and wow... Realizing that the reason I sucked hard was because I was always dive kicking at the top of my jump arc is rough. Now that I vary it (and learned proper combos) I'm able to make people mess up their AAs and actually do damage! I managed to reach 2700bp and an 8 game win streak! (Previous record was 15 loss streak) Why isn't there more good guides like that?
On August 14 2012 14:26 2WeaK wrote: So I found this guide to Yun by the CC guys and wow... Realizing that the reason I sucked hard was because I was always dive kicking at the top of my jump arc is rough. Now that I vary it (and learned proper combos) I'm able to make people mess up their AAs and actually do damage! I managed to reach 2700bp and an 8 game win streak! (Previous record was 15 loss streak) Why isn't there more good guides like that?
I know what guide you're talking about, and a lot of it is out of date. That guide was done during AE. Some of the stuff is relevant, other stuff not so much, so just watch out. Anyway, the placement of your divekick is very crucial to effective pressure as Yun.
On August 14 2012 14:26 2WeaK wrote: So I found this guide to Yun by the CC guys and wow... Realizing that the reason I sucked hard was because I was always dive kicking at the top of my jump arc is rough. Now that I vary it (and learned proper combos) I'm able to make people mess up their AAs and actually do damage! I managed to reach 2700bp and an 8 game win streak! (Previous record was 15 loss streak) Why isn't there more good guides like that?
I know what guide you're talking about, and a lot of it is out of date. That guide was done during AE. Some of the stuff is relevant, other stuff not so much, so just watch out. Anyway, the placement of your divekick is very crucial to effective pressure as Yun.
The srk board for Yun still has a ton of great information to use, some of the guys there are godlike. My Yun ain't too bad either, haha.
Yeah, I was reading the SRK boards, but I'm the kind of guy that needs hear stuff to understand it (reading is neat, but audio is better) and I heard that Yun barely had any of his frame data adjusted so I decided to watch the guide. I mean, they couldn't have changed his entire play style, right? I still need to learn Genei Jin combos, but I'd rather wait until I'm able to hit confirm it! (I'd rather waste an entire super bar and not know the combo than fish for the confirm and waste the meter anyway)
My favorite part about Yun is playing against people that just can't find the right time to poke out of the pressure and you basically just press buttons the whole game.
On August 14 2012 14:26 2WeaK wrote: So I found this guide to Yun by the CC guys and wow... Realizing that the reason I sucked hard was because I was always dive kicking at the top of my jump arc is rough. Now that I vary it (and learned proper combos) I'm able to make people mess up their AAs and actually do damage! I managed to reach 2700bp and an 8 game win streak! (Previous record was 15 loss streak) Why isn't there more good guides like that?
I know what guide you're talking about, and a lot of it is out of date. That guide was done during AE. Some of the stuff is relevant, other stuff not so much, so just watch out. Anyway, the placement of your divekick is very crucial to effective pressure as Yun.
The srk board for Yun still has a ton of great information to use, some of the guys there are godlike. My Yun ain't too bad either, haha.
Yeah, I was reading the SRK boards, but I'm the kind of guy that needs hear stuff to understand it (reading is neat, but audio is better) and I heard that Yun barely had any of his frame data adjusted so I decided to watch the guide. I mean, they couldn't have changed his entire play style, right? I still need to learn Genei Jin combos, but I'd rather wait until I'm able to hit confirm it! (I'd rather waste an entire super bar and not know the combo than fish for the confirm and waste the meter anyway)
My favorite part about Yun is playing against people that just can't find the right time to poke out of the pressure and you basically just press buttons the whole game.
Hell yeah man, Yun's a lot of fun. But the big change that they made about him from ae > v.2012 was that they changed the landing stun of his divekicks from 4F to 6F, so they must be more precisely placed, but it also means some of his setups from ae are much stricter or just don't work anymore. That nerf changed his playstyle, you can't divekick for free pressure anymore, you have to be smart about it. They also nerfed his command grab heavily, the slowed down the start up of all versions of it and nerfed the EX versioneven more. The EX version used to be throw-immune, but now its not.
But otherwise, he's basically the same character just with less damage. He's still so much fun though. Good luck playing him, brotha.
Yeah and it's a big change from Rose too... (My old main) I played about 100-150 games before losing a kid mashing SRK and jumping a lot. When he rejoined, I switched to Rose and kept trying to dive kick! I felt so scrubby even though I won.
On August 14 2012 14:26 2WeaK wrote: So I found this guide to Yun by the CC guys and wow... Realizing that the reason I sucked hard was because I was always dive kicking at the top of my jump arc is rough. Now that I vary it (and learned proper combos) I'm able to make people mess up their AAs and actually do damage! I managed to reach 2700bp and an 8 game win streak! (Previous record was 15 loss streak) Why isn't there more good guides like that?
I know what guide you're talking about, and a lot of it is out of date. That guide was done during AE. Some of the stuff is relevant, other stuff not so much, so just watch out. Anyway, the placement of your divekick is very crucial to effective pressure as Yun.
The srk board for Yun still has a ton of great information to use, some of the guys there are godlike. My Yun ain't too bad either, haha.
Yeah, I was reading the SRK boards, but I'm the kind of guy that needs hear stuff to understand it (reading is neat, but audio is better) and I heard that Yun barely had any of his frame data adjusted so I decided to watch the guide. I mean, they couldn't have changed his entire play style, right? I still need to learn Genei Jin combos, but I'd rather wait until I'm able to hit confirm it! (I'd rather waste an entire super bar and not know the combo than fish for the confirm and waste the meter anyway)
My favorite part about Yun is playing against people that just can't find the right time to poke out of the pressure and you basically just press buttons the whole game.
Hell yeah man, Yun's a lot of fun. But the big change that they made about him from ae > v.2012 was that they changed the landing stun of his divekicks from 4F to 6F, so they must be more precisely placed, but it also means some of his setups from ae are much stricter or just don't work anymore. That nerf changed his playstyle, you can't divekick for free pressure anymore, you have to be smart about it. They also nerfed his command grab heavily, the slowed down the start up of all versions of it and nerfed the EX versioneven more. The EX version used to be throw-immune, but now its not.
But otherwise, he's basically the same character just with less damage. He's still so much fun though. Good luck playing him, brotha.
What is his BnB? I couldn't get anything breaking 210 damage.
On August 14 2012 14:26 2WeaK wrote: So I found this guide to Yun by the CC guys and wow... Realizing that the reason I sucked hard was because I was always dive kicking at the top of my jump arc is rough. Now that I vary it (and learned proper combos) I'm able to make people mess up their AAs and actually do damage! I managed to reach 2700bp and an 8 game win streak! (Previous record was 15 loss streak) Why isn't there more good guides like that?
I know what guide you're talking about, and a lot of it is out of date. That guide was done during AE. Some of the stuff is relevant, other stuff not so much, so just watch out. Anyway, the placement of your divekick is very crucial to effective pressure as Yun.
The srk board for Yun still has a ton of great information to use, some of the guys there are godlike. My Yun ain't too bad either, haha.
Yeah, I was reading the SRK boards, but I'm the kind of guy that needs hear stuff to understand it (reading is neat, but audio is better) and I heard that Yun barely had any of his frame data adjusted so I decided to watch the guide. I mean, they couldn't have changed his entire play style, right? I still need to learn Genei Jin combos, but I'd rather wait until I'm able to hit confirm it! (I'd rather waste an entire super bar and not know the combo than fish for the confirm and waste the meter anyway)
My favorite part about Yun is playing against people that just can't find the right time to poke out of the pressure and you basically just press buttons the whole game.
Hell yeah man, Yun's a lot of fun. But the big change that they made about him from ae > v.2012 was that they changed the landing stun of his divekicks from 4F to 6F, so they must be more precisely placed, but it also means some of his setups from ae are much stricter or just don't work anymore. That nerf changed his playstyle, you can't divekick for free pressure anymore, you have to be smart about it. They also nerfed his command grab heavily, the slowed down the start up of all versions of it and nerfed the EX versioneven more. The EX version used to be throw-immune, but now its not.
But otherwise, he's basically the same character just with less damage. He's still so much fun though. Good luck playing him, brotha.
What is his BnB? I couldn't get anything breaking 210 damage.
cr.lp > st.lp > cr.mp > st.mp XX mk dragon kicks. HK dragon kicks work on some of the cast, but not all of it. A lot of his combos are character specific. His go to hit confirm combo is cr.lp > cr.lp > st.lp > cr.mk XX mp rush punch. It yields 184 damage and works on everyone in the cast. You can start it of with a cr. lk for a low hit confirm if you want as well. His go to punish combo is cr.mp > cr.mp > st.mp XX mk dragon kicks. Again, hk dragon kicks in this combo is character specific.
On August 14 2012 14:26 2WeaK wrote: So I found this guide to Yun by the CC guys and wow... Realizing that the reason I sucked hard was because I was always dive kicking at the top of my jump arc is rough. Now that I vary it (and learned proper combos) I'm able to make people mess up their AAs and actually do damage! I managed to reach 2700bp and an 8 game win streak! (Previous record was 15 loss streak) Why isn't there more good guides like that?
I know what guide you're talking about, and a lot of it is out of date. That guide was done during AE. Some of the stuff is relevant, other stuff not so much, so just watch out. Anyway, the placement of your divekick is very crucial to effective pressure as Yun.
The srk board for Yun still has a ton of great information to use, some of the guys there are godlike. My Yun ain't too bad either, haha.
Yeah, I was reading the SRK boards, but I'm the kind of guy that needs hear stuff to understand it (reading is neat, but audio is better) and I heard that Yun barely had any of his frame data adjusted so I decided to watch the guide. I mean, they couldn't have changed his entire play style, right? I still need to learn Genei Jin combos, but I'd rather wait until I'm able to hit confirm it! (I'd rather waste an entire super bar and not know the combo than fish for the confirm and waste the meter anyway)
My favorite part about Yun is playing against people that just can't find the right time to poke out of the pressure and you basically just press buttons the whole game.
Hell yeah man, Yun's a lot of fun. But the big change that they made about him from ae > v.2012 was that they changed the landing stun of his divekicks from 4F to 6F, so they must be more precisely placed, but it also means some of his setups from ae are much stricter or just don't work anymore. That nerf changed his playstyle, you can't divekick for free pressure anymore, you have to be smart about it. They also nerfed his command grab heavily, the slowed down the start up of all versions of it and nerfed the EX versioneven more. The EX version used to be throw-immune, but now its not.
But otherwise, he's basically the same character just with less damage. He's still so much fun though. Good luck playing him, brotha.
What is his BnB? I couldn't get anything breaking 210 damage.
cr.lp > st.lp > cr.mp > st.mp XX mk dragon kicks. HK dragon kicks work on some of the cast, but not all of it. A lot of his combos are character specific. His go to hit confirm combo is cr.lp > cr.lp > st.lp > cr.mk XX mp rush punch. It yields 184 damage and works on everyone in the cast. You can start it of with a cr. lk for a low hit confirm if you want as well. His go to punish combo is cr.mp > cr.mp > st.mp XX mk dragon kicks. Again, hk dragon kicks in this combo is character specific.
Yeah I was wondering if I was canceling too late and that's the reason why HK dragon kicks was whiffing. Sadface 184 damage combo.
What do you do after a command grab?
I've tried getting timing down to link a normal and cancel it into kicks, but to be safe i usually just mash lk/mk/hk dragon kicks.
Go for command grab > cr.mp > st.mp XX mk dragon kicks, obviously hk dragon kicks is character specific. On some characters, you can do cr.mp > cr.mp > st.mp > mk/hk dragon kicks.
EPT
