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On August 10 2012 04:49 zelgadissan wrote:
So update on my previous post (new to the game, starting Juri) - I want to get a stick but I won't really have the spare cash for a decent one ($100 minimum) for about a month so I'm trying to play on PC using a 360 controller.
I'm having serious issues with her gameplay, such as storing fuhajins while still doing things like her shikusen or senpusha. I'm also having problems getting timing on combos down, I feel like I'm going fast enough but a lot of times I'll drop combos, for example EX shikusen into U2, I apparently input just a little too slowly and I whiff the ultra.
I assume that things like this will get better with time, but out of curiosity are there any characters that I should realistically not expect to be able to play well until I have a stick?
Get a Hori Fighting VX, It's like 69$ and so far its pretty good for us beginners!
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United States4126 Posts
On August 10 2012 05:10 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
re: sakura,
you get so much more damage and mixup opportunity out of victories in footsies than any other character, so that ought to be your goal. getting in someone's face and spamming tatsu blockstrings is effective in low-level play, but gets you nowhere against strong competition. you need to work on your throw game and the mindgames that surround it - a lot of times i'll catch people by just doing c.lk c.jab, walk backwards, c.mk to whiff punish their jab/c.lk/whatever, but it goes in stages.
First you have to train them to hit buttons while theyre blocking - that's what the throw is for. once the threat of throw is established, the opponent will have to start attempting to tech or beat out your throw, which means you can either frame trap to counterhit his tech attempt, or bait his reversal and punish. whichever option you choose has to be based on previous information - this is why conditioning your opponent is extremely important with Sakura. if you're not setting the pace, you're gonna lose more often than not. This relationship is cyclical and there will come a point in every match where throw becomes the smartest option once again. it's about reading your opponent.
just remember the trinity in this game. block > attack > throw > block
Do my footsies just revolve around s.hk, cr.mk, and hadouken?
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Valhalla18444 Posts
nah, footsies is more than just the mid-range poke game. she has a DOMINANT s.jab, her c.mp is very good for counterpoking, her sweep is quite fast
her anti-air game is one of the best, make sure you're using her anti-air normals to their full potential. c.fp will beat literally every move that it looks like it should beat. i think the only normal i've ever seen beat it out is bison's j.fp, and only at a specific spacing that must be set up. far s.fp is great against divekicks as the hitbox is pretty big and it does a solid chunk of damage. close s.fp is your anti-crossup anti-air because it has a gigantic hitbox above sakura's head that even extends a little behind her. this is your primary anti-air against bison, as he'll pretty much always jump in that ambiguous crossup range, cuz if he doesn't c.fp rapes him
far s.mk is also decent against divekicks, as is far s.mp. those two moves also have some utility when you're just standing on the ground and need to stuff things like scissor kicks, sumo headbutts, blanka balls, etc. for example, if a bison does c.lk c.lk xx lk scissors, he can follow up with another c.lk xx scissors, but after that he'll be too far away for any cancellable normal to connect. from that range, if you hit s.mp xx shou, if he does scissors again, it'll get stuffed. if he does nothing, you'll just whiff s.mp, and it's difficult to whiff punish
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United States4126 Posts
Ah, interesting. I didn't realize her normals had so many uses. Thanks for explaining 
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i have one of these, it workes well and its definitly the best option. IF you get more into the game genre and want to min max your stick, you'd have to buy buttons and a stick anyway, so after having the brawl stick and upgrading it, you'll end up with the same quality as a TE stick with upgraded buttons, since the hard part of the arcade stick is exactly the same as the TE. The only difference is that you'll see HHH and The Rock. Lol.
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The Footsies Handbook (That's the name I didn't make it up): http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702
Also does anyone play Ken offline setting? All of the comments about Ken seem to come from mainly online players.
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On August 10 2012 05:11 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
dunno why the hell someone said she ain't a rushdown character though, she's the very definition of it. she absolutely must get in. it's just that her offense is largely set up through her strong mid-range game
Maybe its because of her amazing terrible zoning game with her fireballs. Or maybe she rapes with her mostly sub par normals? or perhaps her damage output in a single move is so non-existent that it puts her above the rest.
Bah who knows.
But to be fair, she has some of the best normals (s.HK and c.HP to name a few) and great mixup capabilities that pretty much defines her as a rush down character.
Try doing anything but playing rushdown with her against iunno, Guile or Sagat and see where that goes.
Or perhaps revolutionize her like how Sabre did.
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On August 10 2012 05:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
juri's too advanced for new players. there's like no good Juri players around. she'd be on a very short list of characters that i wouldn't recommend a new player try to use on pad, which includes viper and gen. everyone else, if you're comfortable on pad, you'll do just fine. there's nothing especially difficult execution-wise in sf4 as compared to other fighting games, just link timing (which is pretty unique to sf4, i don't think i've ever played another fighter that's so link-heavy. i like it!)
Though I agree with you for the most part, Juri on pad is not hard at all. I can actually hold all 3 kicks while playing normally, but maybe I'm some kind of supernatural pad-freak. I guess it might be hard if you use one of those pads with the 6-button layout, but I use shoulders.
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On August 10 2012 11:31 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 05:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
juri's too advanced for new players. there's like no good Juri players around. she'd be on a very short list of characters that i wouldn't recommend a new player try to use on pad, which includes viper and gen. everyone else, if you're comfortable on pad, you'll do just fine. there's nothing especially difficult execution-wise in sf4 as compared to other fighting games, just link timing (which is pretty unique to sf4, i don't think i've ever played another fighter that's so link-heavy. i like it!) Though I agree with you for the most part, Juri on pad is not hard at all. I can actually hold all 3 kicks while playing normally, but maybe I'm some kind of supernatural pad-freak. I guess it might be hard if you use one of those pads with the 6-button layout, but I use shoulders.
On the Gen forums there are quite a few Gen pad players. That being said I think holding buttons is just a strange idea in a game where most moves involves button presses and stick motions.
The reason I don't like Juri for new players is that her Ultra is just an extension of her offense. It isn't as convenient as Ryu's Shoryuken FADC Ultra. If anything it reminds me of a Genei Jin which you have to take damage to use.
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Seriously watch these fgtv vods if you aren't watching mike ross v fchamp right now. I've been dying laughing tonight.
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Mike Ross is at the FGTV house again? He was there sometime last week sparring with champ and Rog, and it was fantastically hilarious
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On August 10 2012 16:19 Duka08 wrote:
Mike Ross is at the FGTV house again? He was there sometime last week sparring with champ and Rog, and it was fantastically hilarious
Someone off screen made a joke about why he hasn't gone back to socal. Mike responded his ticket to Japan was a one way and he forgot what home looks like.
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On August 10 2012 11:31 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 05:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
juri's too advanced for new players. there's like no good Juri players around. she'd be on a very short list of characters that i wouldn't recommend a new player try to use on pad, which includes viper and gen. everyone else, if you're comfortable on pad, you'll do just fine. there's nothing especially difficult execution-wise in sf4 as compared to other fighting games, just link timing (which is pretty unique to sf4, i don't think i've ever played another fighter that's so link-heavy. i like it!) Though I agree with you for the most part, Juri on pad is not hard at all. I can actually hold all 3 kicks while playing normally, but maybe I'm some kind of supernatural pad-freak. I guess it might be hard if you use one of those pads with the 6-button layout, but I use shoulders.
Yeah if you play as Juri you must assign her LK to a shoulder button. I guess it's doable but meh.
Also Oni's cr.HP frame trap after a single jab in midscreen comboes into EX-Lightning Fireball which surprisingly enough comboes into his ultra. 483 damage not so bad for a frame trap that gives him +12 frames on block too.
On August 10 2012 11:44 rwrzr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 11:31 Cel.erity wrote:On August 10 2012 05:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
juri's too advanced for new players. there's like no good Juri players around. she'd be on a very short list of characters that i wouldn't recommend a new player try to use on pad, which includes viper and gen. everyone else, if you're comfortable on pad, you'll do just fine. there's nothing especially difficult execution-wise in sf4 as compared to other fighting games, just link timing (which is pretty unique to sf4, i don't think i've ever played another fighter that's so link-heavy. i like it!) Though I agree with you for the most part, Juri on pad is not hard at all. I can actually hold all 3 kicks while playing normally, but maybe I'm some kind of supernatural pad-freak. I guess it might be hard if you use one of those pads with the 6-button layout, but I use shoulders. On the Gen forums there are quite a few Gen pad players. That being said I think holding buttons is just a strange idea in a game where most moves involves button presses and stick motions. The reason I don't like Juri for new players is that her Ultra is just an extension of her offense. It isn't as convenient as Ryu's Shoryuken FADC Ultra. If anything it reminds me of a Genei Jin which you have to take damage to use.
Her ultra's way better than Ginei Jin, 4 super bars is a huge price whereas ultras are free every round.
On August 10 2012 04:49 zelgadissan wrote:
So update on my previous post (new to the game, starting Juri) - I want to get a stick but I won't really have the spare cash for a decent one ($100 minimum) for about a month so I'm trying to play on PC using a 360 controller.
I'm having serious issues with her gameplay, such as storing fuhajins while still doing things like her shikusen or senpusha. I'm also having problems getting timing on combos down, I feel like I'm going fast enough but a lot of times I'll drop combos, for example EX shikusen into U2, I apparently input just a little too slowly and I whiff the ultra.
I assume that things like this will get better with time, but out of curiosity are there any characters that I should realistically not expect to be able to play well until I have a stick?
Btw keyboard is a million billion times better than a pad so I'd use that. Makes transitioning to a stick easier as well.
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On August 11 2012 00:23 Shikyo wrote:
Btw keyboard is a million billion times better than a pad so I'd use that. Makes transitioning to a stick easier as well.
Your tool doesn't matter, if it did I doubt that Wolfkrone would be have been able to be so dominant with C.Viper with a pad last year. It just depends on what you're most comfortable with, if anything pad is better because it doesn't require an extra investment in the game.
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On August 11 2012 00:44 2WeaK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 00:23 Shikyo wrote:
Btw keyboard is a million billion times better than a pad so I'd use that. Makes transitioning to a stick easier as well. Your tool doesn't matter, if it did I doubt that Wolfkrone would be have been able to be so dominant with C.Viper with a pad last year. It just depends on what you're most comfortable with, if anything pad is better because it doesn't require an extra investment in the game.
Of course it matters. Also I'm assuming he owns a keyboard but those cost like 5 bucks anyway
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On August 11 2012 02:24 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 00:44 2WeaK wrote:On August 11 2012 00:23 Shikyo wrote:
Btw keyboard is a million billion times better than a pad so I'd use that. Makes transitioning to a stick easier as well. Your tool doesn't matter, if it did I doubt that Wolfkrone would be have been able to be so dominant with C.Viper with a pad last year. It just depends on what you're most comfortable with, if anything pad is better because it doesn't require an extra investment in the game. Of course it matters. Also I'm assuming he owns a keyboard but those cost like 5 bucks anyway
Are you implying that Fanatiq and Wolfkrone would be a million times better if they were using a stick/keyboard/hitbox instead of a pad?
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On August 11 2012 00:23 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 11:31 Cel.erity wrote:On August 10 2012 05:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
juri's too advanced for new players. there's like no good Juri players around. she'd be on a very short list of characters that i wouldn't recommend a new player try to use on pad, which includes viper and gen. everyone else, if you're comfortable on pad, you'll do just fine. there's nothing especially difficult execution-wise in sf4 as compared to other fighting games, just link timing (which is pretty unique to sf4, i don't think i've ever played another fighter that's so link-heavy. i like it!) Though I agree with you for the most part, Juri on pad is not hard at all. I can actually hold all 3 kicks while playing normally, but maybe I'm some kind of supernatural pad-freak. I guess it might be hard if you use one of those pads with the 6-button layout, but I use shoulders. Yeah if you play as Juri you must assign her LK to a shoulder button. I guess it's doable but meh. Also Oni's cr.HP frame trap after a single jab in midscreen comboes into EX-Lightning Fireball which surprisingly enough comboes into his ultra. 483 damage not so bad for a frame trap that gives him +12 frames on block too. Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 11:44 rwrzr wrote:On August 10 2012 11:31 Cel.erity wrote:On August 10 2012 05:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
juri's too advanced for new players. there's like no good Juri players around. she'd be on a very short list of characters that i wouldn't recommend a new player try to use on pad, which includes viper and gen. everyone else, if you're comfortable on pad, you'll do just fine. there's nothing especially difficult execution-wise in sf4 as compared to other fighting games, just link timing (which is pretty unique to sf4, i don't think i've ever played another fighter that's so link-heavy. i like it!) Though I agree with you for the most part, Juri on pad is not hard at all. I can actually hold all 3 kicks while playing normally, but maybe I'm some kind of supernatural pad-freak. I guess it might be hard if you use one of those pads with the 6-button layout, but I use shoulders. On the Gen forums there are quite a few Gen pad players. That being said I think holding buttons is just a strange idea in a game where most moves involves button presses and stick motions. The reason I don't like Juri for new players is that her Ultra is just an extension of her offense. It isn't as convenient as Ryu's Shoryuken FADC Ultra. If anything it reminds me of a Genei Jin which you have to take damage to use. Her ultra's way better than Ginei Jin, 4 super bars is a huge price whereas ultras are free every round. Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 04:49 zelgadissan wrote:
So update on my previous post (new to the game, starting Juri) - I want to get a stick but I won't really have the spare cash for a decent one ($100 minimum) for about a month so I'm trying to play on PC using a 360 controller.
I'm having serious issues with her gameplay, such as storing fuhajins while still doing things like her shikusen or senpusha. I'm also having problems getting timing on combos down, I feel like I'm going fast enough but a lot of times I'll drop combos, for example EX shikusen into U2, I apparently input just a little too slowly and I whiff the ultra.
I assume that things like this will get better with time, but out of curiosity are there any characters that I should realistically not expect to be able to play well until I have a stick? Btw keyboard is a million billion times better than a pad so I'd use that. Makes transitioning to a stick easier as well.
Juri's ultra is nowhere near as powerful a tool as Genei-Jin. you can't weigh super bar vs ultra bar like that. FSE isn't magically better because you get it every round. Genei-Jin is seriously like... it's not even close which is stronger
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On August 11 2012 02:24 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 00:44 2WeaK wrote:On August 11 2012 00:23 Shikyo wrote:
Btw keyboard is a million billion times better than a pad so I'd use that. Makes transitioning to a stick easier as well. Your tool doesn't matter, if it did I doubt that Wolfkrone would be have been able to be so dominant with C.Viper with a pad last year. It just depends on what you're most comfortable with, if anything pad is better because it doesn't require an extra investment in the game. Of course it matters. Also I'm assuming he owns a keyboard but those cost like 5 bucks anyway
There are plenty of high-level pad players =X
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On August 11 2012 03:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 00:23 Shikyo wrote:On August 10 2012 11:31 Cel.erity wrote:On August 10 2012 05:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
juri's too advanced for new players. there's like no good Juri players around. she'd be on a very short list of characters that i wouldn't recommend a new player try to use on pad, which includes viper and gen. everyone else, if you're comfortable on pad, you'll do just fine. there's nothing especially difficult execution-wise in sf4 as compared to other fighting games, just link timing (which is pretty unique to sf4, i don't think i've ever played another fighter that's so link-heavy. i like it!) Though I agree with you for the most part, Juri on pad is not hard at all. I can actually hold all 3 kicks while playing normally, but maybe I'm some kind of supernatural pad-freak. I guess it might be hard if you use one of those pads with the 6-button layout, but I use shoulders. Yeah if you play as Juri you must assign her LK to a shoulder button. I guess it's doable but meh. Also Oni's cr.HP frame trap after a single jab in midscreen comboes into EX-Lightning Fireball which surprisingly enough comboes into his ultra. 483 damage not so bad for a frame trap that gives him +12 frames on block too. On August 10 2012 11:44 rwrzr wrote:On August 10 2012 11:31 Cel.erity wrote:On August 10 2012 05:03 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
juri's too advanced for new players. there's like no good Juri players around. she'd be on a very short list of characters that i wouldn't recommend a new player try to use on pad, which includes viper and gen. everyone else, if you're comfortable on pad, you'll do just fine. there's nothing especially difficult execution-wise in sf4 as compared to other fighting games, just link timing (which is pretty unique to sf4, i don't think i've ever played another fighter that's so link-heavy. i like it!) Though I agree with you for the most part, Juri on pad is not hard at all. I can actually hold all 3 kicks while playing normally, but maybe I'm some kind of supernatural pad-freak. I guess it might be hard if you use one of those pads with the 6-button layout, but I use shoulders. On the Gen forums there are quite a few Gen pad players. That being said I think holding buttons is just a strange idea in a game where most moves involves button presses and stick motions. The reason I don't like Juri for new players is that her Ultra is just an extension of her offense. It isn't as convenient as Ryu's Shoryuken FADC Ultra. If anything it reminds me of a Genei Jin which you have to take damage to use. Her ultra's way better than Ginei Jin, 4 super bars is a huge price whereas ultras are free every round. On August 10 2012 04:49 zelgadissan wrote:
So update on my previous post (new to the game, starting Juri) - I want to get a stick but I won't really have the spare cash for a decent one ($100 minimum) for about a month so I'm trying to play on PC using a 360 controller.
I'm having serious issues with her gameplay, such as storing fuhajins while still doing things like her shikusen or senpusha. I'm also having problems getting timing on combos down, I feel like I'm going fast enough but a lot of times I'll drop combos, for example EX shikusen into U2, I apparently input just a little too slowly and I whiff the ultra.
I assume that things like this will get better with time, but out of curiosity are there any characters that I should realistically not expect to be able to play well until I have a stick? Btw keyboard is a million billion times better than a pad so I'd use that. Makes transitioning to a stick easier as well. Juri's ultra is nowhere near as powerful a tool as Genei-Jin. you can't weigh super bar vs ultra bar like that. FSE isn't magically better because you get it every round. Genei-Jin is seriously like... it's not even close which is stronger
esp because of how easy yun can gain meter
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EPT
