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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
That's probably the most broken move in the game. Dan can also combo into ultra from every single hitconfirm and the combo is incredibly easy. Fireball FADC-comboes make no sense to me as extenders, only as combostarters. The dmg increase is almost nonexistent because of the hardcore scaling, though they carry well | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
On July 27 2012 16:24 Shikyo wrote: That's probably the most broken move in the game. Dan can also combo into ultra from every single hitconfirm and the combo is incredibly easy. Fireball FADC-comboes make no sense to me as extenders, only as combostarters. The dmg increase is almost nonexistent because of the hardcore scaling, though they carry well Most of the time Fireball FADC is only used when your opponent is too far to do anything else into FADC, i think. 2 bars for some damage + carry + getting in there is a pretty good trade imo. | ||
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ain
Germany786 Posts
On July 27 2012 16:24 Shikyo wrote: That's probably the most broken move in the game. Dan can also combo into ultra from every single hitconfirm and the combo is incredibly easy. Fireball FADC-comboes make no sense to me as extenders, only as combostarters. The dmg increase is almost nonexistent because of the hardcore scaling, though they carry well What are you talking about? Unless you're using some ridiculous string to confirm fireball fadc combos are one of the best ways to spend your meter. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 27 2012 16:59 ain wrote: What are you talking about? Unless you're using some ridiculous string to confirm fireball fadc combos are one of the best ways to spend your meter. With Evil Ryu a meterless bnb is 383 damage and the normal fireball continuation is 405 damage or so, does that seem significant for 2 bars? Using meter to begin the combo is okay I'm not talking about that, spending meter to extend comboes(with fireball) is a complete waste on Evil Ryu. On July 27 2012 16:56 O-ops wrote: Most of the time Fireball FADC is only used when your opponent is too far to do anything else into FADC, i think. 2 bars for some damage + carry + getting in there is a pretty good trade imo. Even top japanese Evil Ryus use fireball FADC extend comboes instead of Axe Kick ones and I cannot understand it, they deal so little damage. Yes, as just an extender as well. | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
see if they'll blow their only 2 bars on it or if they do it when their super is nearly full. dp fadc is a strong tool | ||
pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
Fireball FADC can be followed by cr.HP (6 frames) while Axe Kick FADC only by close s.MP (3 frames) cr.HP does 200 stun which can be good for front loading the combo for stun (cl.hp hadouken fadc cr.hp is 460 stun vs cl.hp axe kick fadc cl.mp which is 380) | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
I can understand corner carrying to some extent but the difference in corner carry between fireball FADC combo and an Axe Kick FADC combo is minimal. I think it's worth it when the other gets you in the corner while the other just short, but even so I'm not sure if it'd be worth the 2 bars. I don't understand why you'd do a fireball combo while skipping the Axe Kick but either way, c.HP -> LK Axe Kick -> FADC -> c.MP is actually 480 stun whereas cl.HP -> MK Axe Kick -> FADC -> cr.MP -> c.HP is 520 stun, with both dealing more damage as well, your Axe Kick FADC example isn't optimal. Even if using Fireball in some situations to corner carry slightly more might be correct, using it exclusively just shows me that no one knows how to optimize him properly yet. By the way I have a hard knockdown punish combo that I quite like, cr.MK -> LK Axe Kick -> FADC -> c.MP -> HK Axe Kick. You can combo the whole thing even if you hit with just the tip of the cr.MK and the 307 damage into hard KD is pretty good especially against a croucher considering you usually won't be able to follow up with much more than a cr.MK -> Fireball -> FADC cr.MK -> HP Shoryuken against a crouching opponent. However even against a standing opponent the normal cr.MK -> Fireball -> FADC cr.MK -> LK Tatsu -> HP Shoryuken does only 6 damage more. Yet, I've never seen anyone use this combo off a hit confirmable cr.MK(Usually as a punish), ever. | ||
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rwrzr
United States1980 Posts
On July 27 2012 23:29 Shikyo wrote: I don't mean combo starters, again. I understand using fireball as a combo starter, especially off a cr.MK. That's like his main way to deal damage. I'm talking about cases where they get a full punish combo starting with c.HP but use Fireball FADC instead of Axe Kick one. Even more silly this seems when they do it off a FA lvl 2 because the damage scaling makes it actually deal less damage than a completely meterless combo. I can understand corner carrying to some extent but the difference in corner carry between fireball FADC combo and an Axe Kick FADC combo is minimal. I think it's worth it when the other gets you in the corner while the other just short, but even so I'm not sure if it'd be worth the 2 bars. I don't understand why you'd do a fireball combo while skipping the Axe Kick but either way, c.HP -> LK Axe Kick -> FADC -> c.MP is actually 480 stun whereas cl.HP -> MK Axe Kick -> FADC -> cr.MP -> c.HP is 520 stun, with both dealing more damage as well, your Axe Kick FADC example isn't optimal. Even if using Fireball in some situations to corner carry slightly more might be correct, using it exclusively just shows me that no one knows how to optimize him properly yet. By the way I have a hard knockdown punish combo that I quite like, cr.MK -> LK Axe Kick -> FADC -> c.MP -> HK Axe Kick. You can combo the whole thing even if you hit with just the tip of the cr.MK and the 307 damage into hard KD is pretty good especially against a croucher considering you usually won't be able to follow up with much more than a cr.MK -> Fireball -> FADC cr.MK -> HP Shoryuken against a crouching opponent. However even against a standing opponent the normal cr.MK -> Fireball -> FADC cr.MK -> LK Tatsu -> HP Shoryuken does only 6 damage more. Yet, I've never seen anyone use this combo off a hit confirmable cr.MK(Usually as a punish), ever. What else are you going to do with your meter as evil ryu? | ||
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pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
4 Bars max damage cl.hp fb fadc cl.hp fb fadc cl.hp mk axe cr.mp lk.tatsu hp.srk = 463dmg / 795 stun / 1.32 bars / 1x 1frame link / HKD cl.hp fb fadc cl.hp mk.axe cr.mp hp.srk fadc mk.axe = 420 dmg / 705 stun / 1.18 bars / 1x 1 frame link / HKD cl.hp lk.axe fadc cl.mp lk.axe fadc cl.mp hk.axe = 419 dmg / 755 stun / 1.17 bars / 2x 1 frame link / HKD cl.hp lk.axe fadc cl.mp mk.axe fadc cr.mp cl.hp mk.axe cr.mp lk.tatsu hp.srk = 482 dmg / 885 stun / 1.58 bars / 3x 1 frame link cl.hp lk.axe fadc cl.mp lk.axe fadc cr.lp cl.hp mk.axe cr.mp lk.tatsu hp.srk = 920+ stun / at this point you might as well do this Note * Fireball combos can be started from c.mk too for 40 less damage, 100 less stun, 0.08 less bar * mk.axe into cr.mp is a much easier link than axe fadc cl.mp * doing a reset instead of hp srk in the first combo loses ~30 dmg / 40 stun * reaching the corner with first combo for lp srk hp srk gives 1.45 bars (+0.13 bars) * second / third combos could be ultra finished if you really wanted to 2 Bars off cr.mk cr.mk fb fadc cl.hp mk.axe cr.mp lk.tatsu hp.srk = 391 dmg / 590 stun / 1.27 bars cr.mk lk.axe fadc cl.mp hk.axe = 229 dmg / 485 stun / 0.8 bars #changed damage/stun to reflect AE2012 changes (HP SRK 100/60 damage, HK Axe 130 dmg / 150 stun) | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On July 27 2012 16:24 Shikyo wrote: That's probably the most broken move in the game. Dan can also combo into ultra from every single hitconfirm and the combo is incredibly easy. please elaborate | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
I'm guessing quite a few people here play PC judging by the forum and the recent sales. How have your PC online experiences been? I might try it, I heard there were fewer people but much better connections? If there's any more than 3 custom lobbies at any time then that's just as good or better than XBL >_> Edit: to clarify I already have the PC version but I haven't done Live yet, only XBL | ||
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whoso
Germany523 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 28 2012 03:21 Duka08 wrote: God playing online is ridiculous. 4-5 fine matches in a row and then a slideshow every time haha, even starting on green bars. Doesn't make sense. (XBL) I'm guessing quite a few people here play PC judging by the forum and the recent sales. How have your PC online experiences been? I might try it, I heard there were fewer people but much better connections? If there's any more than 3 custom lobbies at any time then that's just as good or better than XBL >_> Edit: to clarify I already have the PC version but I haven't done Live yet, only XBL PC experiences : 0 lag or very low lag, no fps drops at all. I haven't played that many games though. The taunt super -> ultra =D It's an easy input as well, because the taunt super freezes the screen so you have more than enough time to finish the ultra input Of course it's not that practical but he can do it ! On July 27 2012 23:42 rwrzr wrote: What else are you going to do with your meter as evil ryu? 1: Use it for beginning comboes and 2: Save for Raging Demon, because having it enables you to have numerous incredible option selects, ruining a ton of the opponent's options. It's an amazing super. On July 28 2012 00:48 pachi wrote: Close HP / cr. HP forces stand which allows you to fadc cl.hp mk.axe cr.mp lk tatsu hp srk 4 Bars max damage cl.hp fb fadc cl.hp fb fadc cl.hp mk axe cr.mp lk.tatsu hp.srk = 463dmg / 795 stun / 1.32 bars / 1x 1frame link / HKD cl.hp fb fadc cl.hp mk.axe cr.mp hp.srk fadc mk.axe = 420 dmg / 705 stun / 1.18 bars / 1x 1 frame link / HKD cl.hp lk.axe fadc cl.mp lk.axe fadc cl.mp hk.axe = 419 dmg / 755 stun / 1.17 bars / 2x 1 frame link / HKD cl.hp lk.axe fadc cl.mp mk.axe fadc cr.mp cl.hp mk.axe cr.mp lk.tatsu hp.srk = 482 dmg / 885 stun / 1.58 bars / 3x 1 frame link cl.hp lk.axe fadc cl.mp lk.axe fadc cr.lp cl.hp mk.axe cr.mp lk.tatsu hp.srk = 920+ stun / at this point you might as well do this Note * Fireball combos can be started from c.mk too for 40 less damage, 100 less stun, 0.08 less bar * mk.axe into cr.mp is a much easier link than axe fadc cl.mp * doing a reset instead of hp srk in the first combo loses ~30 dmg / 40 stun * reaching the corner with first combo for lp srk hp srk gives 1.45 bars (+0.13 bars) * second / third combos could be ultra finished if you really wanted to 2 Bars off cr.mk cr.mk fb fadc cl.hp mk.axe cr.mp lk.tatsu hp.srk = 391 dmg / 590 stun / 1.27 bars cr.mk lk.axe fadc cl.mp hk.axe = 229 dmg / 485 stun / 0.8 bars #changed damage/stun to reflect AE2012 changes (HP SRK 100/60 damage, HK Axe 130 dmg / 150 stun) By the way the second combo you posted, in that you should replace MK Axe Kick with HK Axe Kick for extra damage and stun. I don't understand why they nerfed it when Evil Ryu wasn't even close to overpowered but whatever. About the later comboes, I know that fireball is better if you can get the c.HP but off a max range cr.MK that's not possible, that's why in those cases I'd go with the combo I was talking about because the best you can get is far MP though that misses against some characters. This still was a really interesting post, and yes the ex fireball loop is probably the optimal corner combo though the 1 frame link is pretty tough. I really need to get used to this stick so that I can properly experiment with comboes, it was so much easier with keyboard. Oh yeah another thing, finishing some hit confirm comboes with standing MP -> LK Axe Kick should be superior to using fireball in general because it deals a ton of stun and gets you in the opponent's face with a 1 frame advantage. Even better, you are in kara grab range, leading into a deadly mixup(Against some characters though you need to use the hard kara Grab (cr.MK) which I still haven't gotten consistent with, however it should be possible). Oh as a BTW I think it's pretty worthless to spend 4 bars on a FADC combo with Evil Ryu because of the tiny dmg increase | ||
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Silentenigma
Turkey2037 Posts
On July 28 2012 03:21 Duka08 wrote: God playing online is ridiculous. 4-5 fine matches in a row and then a slideshow every time haha, even starting on green bars. Doesn't make sense. (XBL) I'm guessing quite a few people here play PC judging by the forum and the recent sales. How have your PC online experiences been? I might try it, I heard there were fewer people but much better connections? If there's any more than 3 custom lobbies at any time then that's just as good or better than XBL >_> Edit: to clarify I already have the PC version but I haven't done Live yet, only XBL Doesnt PC and XBL uses same network?PC version there are VERY good and VERY bad players.There are lots of endless lobbies all the time.Even in weird hours there are at least 8 lobbies all the time.It is easy to find players with same skill level with you in PC. | ||
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rwrzr
United States1980 Posts
I would like to see this discussion head in a more productive direction like: Matchups or general questions about AE2012? /srsmode | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
But yeah sure, so I wonder what I should be doing with Evil Ryu to get in as it's a bit unreliable to just spam c.MK and hope they get hit by it. Of course sometimes c.MK -> fireball -> FADC -> tick throw or stuff like that works but either way it feels a bit icky. His far MK is okay but not great and his air-to-ground feels really weak unless perhaps one could make the opponent mistime their antiair with dive kick. I guess I should utilize FA way more than I am -,- | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12240 Posts
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On July 28 2012 06:18 Silentenigma wrote: Doesnt PC and XBL uses same network?PC version there are VERY good and VERY bad players.There are lots of endless lobbies all the time.Even in weird hours there are at least 8 lobbies all the time.It is easy to find players with same skill level with you in PC. They use "LIVE", which I can use the same login for (using my Xbox Live account to play on PC, even though there's no reason to really since I can get free Windows Live accounts), but it is not cross-platform (the players can not play each other), and in fact even the stats aren't shared. My PP and BP do not carry from XBL -> PC. Not that it matters really, to me at least, just saying. On July 28 2012 11:33 rwrzr wrote: What exactly are we hoping to accomplish with this discussion about E.Ryu? Obviously he is aware of all his options and has a play-style he is comfortable with and isn't going to change. I would like to see this discussion head in a more productive direction like: Matchups or general questions about AE2012? /srsmode I can at least throw a couple things out there for discussion, since a few people here seem to be very knowledgeable and I like observing knowledgeable conversation: - Cammy's rise in popularity (I think, gradually); despite being considered strong for some time, quite a few players have been taking note of her more lately, both picking her up or putting her on blast lol. - Who do you think has the most potential for someone that is highly underused or underrated? I like this topic especially with 2012 because I think a large portion of the top-end player base has stuck with a few characters since the game's been out for so long, but 2012 really had some weighty changes. The only one that somewhat comes to mind is Hakan for example, but I'm interested to see what people think. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Juri, Oni, Hakan. Combofiend beasts people with Oni despite his comboes all being suboptimal and he not knowing like any of his safe jump setups, a person who knew all of this would probably be able to utilize him really well but no one puts in the work. Juri because of my FSE bias. Hakan might actually be broken, not sure. His wakeup game is superb, he's really strong in melee like other grapplers but has no problems at all with zoning unlike say Zangief. Then again I'm not sure what he's supposed to do vs Zangief. Oh perhaps Evil Ryu. The second-best Kara grab in the entire game(Loses to Ken by only around 12%) with the ability to backthrow with it as well, insane damage with good resets, good okizeme. Just need people to figure out all the unblockables / mixup possibilities and ways to open the opponents up. | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
Gief has real good footsies man. | ||
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