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On July 20 2012 16:48 Torte de Lini wrote:
This is going to be incredibly newbie, but I'm playing Ibuki and my buddy is Ryu.
and there's this annoying stunt he keeps doing where he'll get me on the ground and then if I don't wake up "shoryuken", he'll grab me.
If I do it, he just backs up and then come back and grabs me.
and it constantly repeats the whole time, I can't seem to figure out what to do.
Press Down Light punch light kick same repeatedly.If he tries to grab you he wont succeed.
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On July 20 2012 16:48 Torte de Lini wrote:
This is going to be incredibly newbie, but I'm playing Ibuki and my buddy is Ryu.
and there's this annoying stunt he keeps doing where he'll get me on the ground and then if I don't wake up "shoryuken", he'll grab me.
If I do it, he just backs up and then come back and grabs me.
and it constantly repeats the whole time, I can't seem to figure out what to do.
If youre new to the game, backdash. You can wakeup backdash the same way that you can wakeup shoryuken, jush mash it towards the end of you waking up and youll backdash on the first frame. Come back once your friend starts to adjust to that in the many ways Ryu can ^_^.
The crouch teching others mentioned is the more solid way to counter throws in a situation like this, but its also definitely not a case of just mashing it and takes well practiced timing to be at all consistent with. For example my crouch tech timing is god awful and ive been playing for about a year now and have clocked about 1000 hours on Steam. I really need to work on it tbh!
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On July 20 2012 18:43 Silentenigma wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 16:48 Torte de Lini wrote:
This is going to be incredibly newbie, but I'm playing Ibuki and my buddy is Ryu.
and there's this annoying stunt he keeps doing where he'll get me on the ground and then if I don't wake up "shoryuken", he'll grab me.
If I do it, he just backs up and then come back and grabs me.
and it constantly repeats the whole time, I can't seem to figure out what to do. Press Down Light punch light kick same repeatedly.If he tries to grab you he wont succeed.
yeah do this, i dont know any situation really where u have to wake up dp, just crouch tech it brohan
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On July 20 2012 01:44 DwD wrote:So I've had SSF4 for the PS3 for a while but I never really got into it which was my intention after I watched EVO2011. I bought a stick but I never really liked the feel off it so I just ended up selling it. Now I picked up AE on the steam sale and got myself a Madcatz SSF4 Fightpad and I really like it so far. I'm just curious on how to play to become somewhat decent? I don't wanna be the next Daigo but I wanna be able to win like 50% of games online or something. I really like Viper after watching Kayopolice at EVO2011 so I've kinda started to learn all the moves etc. Any advice on how to improve? Other than play play play  I've been trying to figure out how to cancel but I just don't understand it. The command list for example seismic I think it's something like move + light punch to cancel but I'm never able to cancel it and she just does the move. Any guide or anything would be great
I play viper. She is absolutely hard to play and even if you mess up once, you'll be REALLY hating yourself.
As for cancels, it is very unintuitive at first. What you do is say with QCB+mp, you tap TWO punch buttons at the same time. It will feint. The timing is tough. I would start with doing QCB+LP then P+P. The gap in the frame to cancel is pretty wide with lp, and gets narrower as you move to mp and fp.
I concur with the poster who said you should pick other character than viper. She really has to commit, it's hard to react, her normals are awful and is really a unique character. Since you're asking i'll chip in my advice. I don't think you really need to be technically sound to have fun and win games with viper. Viper is a scrub killer, and most of the time on 360, you'll be facing people who don't know WTF they are doing. Note that it's been a year and a half since i played on xbox live, the competition might be tougher.
You can get to at least 2500 PP with these strats:
-don't do anything fancy yet. Her FFF combo, jump cancel ultra, and dash cancel ultra are awesome, you're going to have to hit training mode constantly just to even stay fresh, that's a warning! This character really requires practice, but to be decent with her, those aren't needed yet to get to 2500 PP. Learn to move with her first, it's a totally different and difficult experience. You can't land combos if you can't move, aka learn your footises. You will lose to people who are garbage even if you are a better player.
-Learn her instant air burnkick. It's great for mixups especially after a hard knockdown. just walk up to the guy and do the HK version. Many people's reaction to this is to throw or DP or block. burnkick beats throw, you get to the other side if he DPs, and if he blocks the regular intuitive way, then he isn't blocking because he has to block on the other side.
What counters this? it's character specific, but you'll see smart shotokans doing c.mk. If you know they'll do this, then go for a counter hit combo or throw them.
-jump lk then cancel into burn kick at people. It looks like you'll land and be vulnerable to a throw. remember that burn kick blows up people who love throwing.
-learn her instant super jump burn kick. It's angles must be learned because it's kind of wonky. You can cross people up with this too
-After her forward throw, what you can do is walk a bit forward, then super jump towards your opponent. As they rise, you can get a mix up - You can go for a burn kick which hits on the otherside, or just HK for a free combo. Your opponents have to know how to fight viper to exploit this. shoto c.mk beats burnkick, but naked HK beats c.mk. I like to metagame my opponents and I don't walk up a little to angle myself, i just like to superjump towards them after the throw and then do a burning kick. I do this to pretend i'm still on week 5 sf4 2009 technology :-) .
-just jumping/super jumping and doing LK burning kick does wonders to her awkward footsie game. It can mess with your opponent's expectations of where you should land, and it should open up the game against someone who's playing solid D.
everything i told you doesn't really need gosu execution imo. If you want to learn viper, watch recent Latif and Wolfkrone videos. If you want to get over 50%, you cannot make mistakes. Sometimes you have to break out of your shell and be fancy to improve, but even a small mistake such as missing your feint cancel off a normal into an EX is a dramatic one. She needs meter, health, and positioning. If she gets knocked down, sure she has options to get out of pressure, but if you guess wrong there, its ggpo for you
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Melbourne5338 Posts
6: Sagat
5: Cammy, Dictator
4: C. Viper, Ken, Yun
3: Sakura, Ryu, Fei Long, Evil Ryu, Akuma, Rufus, Seth, Adon
2: Cody, El Fuerte, Blanka, Claw, Zangief, Boxer
1: Makoto, Dan, Abel, Honda, Dudley, Rose, Juri, Hakan, Chun Li, Yang, T. Hawk, Ibuki, Guile, Guy
0: Deejay, Dhalsim, Oni, Gen, Gouken
Missing: 21 / Red denotes characters played by Foreign Players
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YO DaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaan
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Nice, a Juri player.
She to me seems like a character with unlimited potential, and her comebacks.. I messed around a bit in the training mode, during her ult 1 she can combo 400 damage off her overhead with no meter(same deal with her low) and with meter she can FADC combo in the 500s, best mixups in the game, and she has a 2 second 300 damage combo into knockdown, letting her pressure as much as possible during the 15 seconds.
The FADC comboes are really difficult though and require some superhero execution.
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Get to see some Dudley action!
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No Dhalsim, Gen or Gouken = irrelevant tournament
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Sad not to see Kiryu in there for some Guy, though I guess I have RB to fall back on
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Oni confirmed for bottom tier Kappa
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On July 21 2012 04:07 Soulstice wrote:
Oni confirmed for bottom tier Kappa
What the hell does "Kappa" means?
Also - Go Latif!
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I'm kind of amazed by how hard Poongko stomped those KR qualifiers. I think he went like 47-1 in the games I watched (And people say that Seth has trouble with consistency at the highest levels)
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On July 21 2012 04:07 Soulstice wrote:
Oni confirmed for bottom tier Kappa
Nah, he's banned #Kappa
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On July 21 2012 04:07 Soulstice wrote:
Oni confirmed for bottom tier Kappa
No no no one just knows that he's hidden OP
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On July 20 2012 16:48 Torte de Lini wrote:
This is going to be incredibly newbie, but I'm playing Ibuki and my buddy is Ryu.
and there's this annoying stunt he keeps doing where he'll get me on the ground and then if I don't wake up "shoryuken", he'll grab me.
If I do it, he just backs up and then come back and grabs me.
and it constantly repeats the whole time, I can't seem to figure out what to do.
I see a lot of people mentioning the crouch tech option select as an answer to this. Generally, smarter players will punish crouch tech with a frame trap, thus leading to a worse situation than getting thrown -- ie. combo into another hard knockdown.
An, arguably, better option if you're needing to wake up defensively without meter is a focus/throw/backdash OS. The input is hit jab/short/strong/forward at the same time and backdash cancel it.
The way the SF4 engine works is that the dash will override the focus, which will, in turn, override the throw. What will happen in game, assuming timing is correct, is that your character will tech first, focus if the tech isn't needed (due to the chain of operations being that medium inputs have priority over light), and finally backdash the focus, assuming you did not tech.
Frankly, most (non competitive) players tend to be on the side that OS's aren't necessarily worth the effort to achieve the desired results due to the fact that if inputted incorrectly they can be a hindrance, but I highly recommend at least incorporating crouchtech, and focus backdash/crouchtech OS into everyone's game. An incorrect input on either of these two is less detrimental than, say, a jump-in OS to catch backdash, etc.
On July 20 2012 01:44 DwD wrote:
So I've had SSF4 for the PS3 for a while but I never really got into it which was my intention after I watched EVO2011. I bought a stick but I never really liked the feel off it so I just ended up selling it. Now I picked up AE on the steam sale and got myself a Madcatz SSF4 Fightpad and I really like it so far.
I'm just curious on how to play to become somewhat decent? I don't wanna be the next Daigo but I wanna be able to win like 50% of games online or something. I really like Viper after watching Kayopolice at EVO2011 so I've kinda started to learn all the moves etc. Any advice on how to improve? Other than play play play
I've been trying to figure out how to cancel but I just don't understand it. The command list for example seismic I think it's something like move + light punch to cancel but I'm never able to cancel it and she just does the move.
Any guide or anything would be great
First off: Viper is a difficult character to learn, there is no way around it. She has bad normals, but an excellent mix-up game to make up for this shortcoming. Viper's defensive options are also relatively lacking, especially after the ex-Seismo nerf. That said, she is an incredibly rewarding character, and her risk/reward is possibly the highest in the game.
Things to learn -- Hopefully easiest to hardest:
Viper can punish a lot of stuff with c.mk xx tk. This requires no links, only a special cancel. Abuse it for good safe damage.
Viper can cancel almost everything she has with feints (barring roundhouse). Due to her bad normals, and generally unsafe specials, this is mandatory to keep her pressure game relatively safe. If you can't cancel to make her unsafe things safe, you need to learn it. There are two feints: TK (thunder knuckle -- QCB + punch), and Seismo (I believe it's technically Seismic Hammer -- DP+punch)
She also has a superjump, and thus, a superjump cancel (SJC): A SJC means you are using a jump animation to cancel another animation. During the startup frames of the superjump, you can actually cancel this into another command, ie. Seismo/Ultra/whatever. This comes into play with several important facets of Viper's gameplay: SJC ultras, and Seismo chains.
TK Feint: The "cancel" of the feints is that you are canceling recovery frames. They also have different recovery/startup: Jab TK is obviously the slowest, and fierce is the fastest. This is important because feinting these also follow their speeds. For example, in order to feint a jab TK, the input is rather lax. If you're trying to feint fierce, the input is a lot quicker.
*In specific regards to the quoted author: to cancel you have to press TWO punches(simultaneously) to cancel seismo and TK.
Seismo feints/chains: Same principle as TK feints, you can cancel the recovery frames of the seismo, but instead of canceling the animation with another flat special input (although you can cancel it with a TK feint, but that is beyond what I'm trying to convey here) you are instead SJC the recovery, and canceling the superjump startup into another seismo (or seismo feint -- thus making the seismo safer).
Seismo chains are the act of rapidly canceling each seismo into a SJ, into another seismo. This allows for a lot of ground pressure, and if you weave ex-seismo's in, a substantial amount of unavoidable chip damage (You cannot jump out of it if you seismo xx ex-seismo xx seismo, I believe. You CAN, however, jump, and punish, non-ex seismo chains). You should, perhaps, not use regular seismo if you cannot cancel it. It is insanely unsafe without canceling.
Input: Forward > Down > Downfoward + p > Forward > Down > Downforward > Forward > Upforward + P
On the topic of seismos, one of Viper's only wakeup options is ex-seismo. Ex-seismo has invulnerability frames, the feint also has these properties. So, if someone is doing a meaty (right when you wakeup) roundhouse, Viper can ex-seismo to punish it. She will be immune to the roundhouse, and the ex-seismo will go off leading to a full punish. Do not overuse this. It is a crutch that was recently nerfed, and can be baited, and punished, severely. (It used to have throw immunity!  )
ULTRAAAAAA ONE: Aka the best and worst ultra in the game. It is rather finicky about where you can juggle into it. A rule of thumb is that midscreen you can only get it off of an ex-seismo xx meterless FADC. Some bigger characters can be hit off of a ex-seismo xx BK. Generally, just don't go for it midscreen unless you know it will land. Missing her ultra hurts a lot. Avoid this trouble by trying for a ex-seismo in the corner. In the corner the options are endless, if the enemy is in a juggle state and near the height of Viper's chest/shoulder chances are you will connect. You can connect off of: BK, fierce TK, strong TK, and a meterless FADC (just like midscreen).
Tip: when you are in the corner, if you crossup TKBK and manage to knock the enemy into the corner, you can ultra.
Final note on u1: SJC ultra is good, although the damage is less than that of an ex-seismo into it. In order to accomplish this you need to cancel a normal into a SJ, and that SJ into the ultra. You can also SJC after a link combo, Common usage is: c.lk, s.lk, c.mp xx SJC xx ultra
Input: c.strong > down > downforward > forward > down > downforward > forward > upforward > PPP
Alt. Input: c.strong > down > downforward > forward > upforward > up > upbackwards > backwards > downbackwards > down > downforward > forward
The alternate input affords a more "fluid" input: almost a 720. I personally do not like it, although many people find success with it.
FFF - Fierce (fierce TK)feint Fierce: Hate it. Learn it. THEN you can love it. This punish is what makes Vipers everywhere perfect people. Generally, if you land this in the corner -- and sometimes mid-screen -- one more mixup will stun most of the cast. However, a lot of new Viper's have problems with the inputs. Work on it, there are videos and tips everywhere on how to make this easier. Personally, I input with the shortcut DP motion (downforward*2), although I know people who prefer the normal forward, down, downforward. Completely user preference.
The Input I Use: Fierce (negative edge it -- hold fierce down without releasing) > TK input (qcb + p) > release fierce (this counts as the punch input of the TK) > hit strong&fierce for feint > fierce (while holding downforward) > down > downforward > two punches (ex-Seismo). The underlined text is the shortcut input for DP.
In the mean time, for a heavy punish (if someone wiffs a DP in front of your face and you throw or roundhouse every rushdown player cries a little), I suggest the vanilla Viper combo:
Input: fierce xx ex-Seismo xx Burn Kick. You lose some meter/damage/stun, but you also don't run the risk of missing a feint cancel and FP TK wiff causing the opponent to have an eternity to punish you.
EXECUTION TIPS:
Seismo chains: If you are superjumping instead of getting a seismo you are doing it TOO fast. This applies to meterless FADC as well -- which I did not explain. It is an advanced tactic and I'm unsure if it's within the scope of what I'm talking about.
FFF: Negative edge and DP shortcuts are the only advice I can give here. This one you have to work for.
Instant air (TK -- Tiger Knee) Burn Kick: Hold down for a second or you will only get a super jump.
This ran on a bit longer than I had anticipated, apologies about the length and rather disorganized format. Gaining a solid understanding of why Viper works the way she does unlocks her potential. Her mix ups are unbelievable if you can feint properly, her stun potential is among the best in the game as well as her damage. Also, apologies for the rather non-traditional combo inputs, I was trying to be less confusing to newer players and more thorough -- this may have backfired.
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On July 20 2012 22:31 Schaudenfraud wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 01:44 DwD wrote:So I've had SSF4 for the PS3 for a while but I never really got into it which was my intention after I watched EVO2011. I bought a stick but I never really liked the feel off it so I just ended up selling it. Now I picked up AE on the steam sale and got myself a Madcatz SSF4 Fightpad and I really like it so far. I'm just curious on how to play to become somewhat decent? I don't wanna be the next Daigo but I wanna be able to win like 50% of games online or something. I really like Viper after watching Kayopolice at EVO2011 so I've kinda started to learn all the moves etc. Any advice on how to improve? Other than play play play I've been trying to figure out how to cancel but I just don't understand it. The command list for example seismic I think it's something like move + light punch to cancel but I'm never able to cancel it and she just does the move. Any guide or anything would be great I play viper. She is absolutely hard to play and even if you mess up once, you'll be REALLY hating yourself. As for cancels, it is very unintuitive at first. What you do is say with QCB+mp, you tap TWO punch buttons at the same time. It will feint. The timing is tough. I would start with doing QCB+LP then P+P. The gap in the frame to cancel is pretty wide with lp, and gets narrower as you move to mp and fp. I concur with the poster who said you should pick other character than viper. She really has to commit, it's hard to react, her normals are awful and is really a unique character. Since you're asking i'll chip in my advice. I don't think you really need to be technically sound to have fun and win games with viper. Viper is a scrub killer, and most of the time on 360, you'll be facing people who don't know WTF they are doing. Note that it's been a year and a half since i played on xbox live, the competition might be tougher. You can get to at least 2500 PP with these strats: -don't do anything fancy yet. Her FFF combo, jump cancel ultra, and dash cancel ultra are awesome, you're going to have to hit training mode constantly just to even stay fresh, that's a warning! This character really requires practice, but to be decent with her, those aren't needed yet to get to 2500 PP. Learn to move with her first, it's a totally different and difficult experience. You can't land combos if you can't move, aka learn your footises. You will lose to people who are garbage even if you are a better player. -Learn her instant air burnkick. It's great for mixups especially after a hard knockdown. just walk up to the guy and do the HK version. Many people's reaction to this is to throw or DP or block. burnkick beats throw, you get to the other side if he DPs, and if he blocks the regular intuitive way, then he isn't blocking because he has to block on the other side. What counters this? it's character specific, but you'll see smart shotokans doing c.mk. If you know they'll do this, then go for a counter hit combo or throw them. -jump lk then cancel into burn kick at people. It looks like you'll land and be vulnerable to a throw. remember that burn kick blows up people who love throwing. -learn her instant super jump burn kick. It's angles must be learned because it's kind of wonky. You can cross people up with this too -After her forward throw, what you can do is walk a bit forward, then super jump towards your opponent. As they rise, you can get a mix up - You can go for a burn kick which hits on the otherside, or just HK for a free combo. Your opponents have to know how to fight viper to exploit this. shoto c.mk beats burnkick, but naked HK beats c.mk. I like to metagame my opponents and I don't walk up a little to angle myself, i just like to superjump towards them after the throw and then do a burning kick. I do this to pretend i'm still on week 5 sf4 2009 technology :-) . -just jumping/super jumping and doing LK burning kick does wonders to her awkward footsie game. It can mess with your opponent's expectations of where you should land, and it should open up the game against someone who's playing solid D. everything i told you doesn't really need gosu execution imo. If you want to learn viper, watch recent Latif and Wolfkrone videos. If you want to get over 50%, you cannot make mistakes. Sometimes you have to break out of your shell and be fancy to improve, but even a small mistake such as missing your feint cancel off a normal into an EX is a dramatic one. She needs meter, health, and positioning. If she gets knocked down, sure she has options to get out of pressure, but if you guess wrong there, its ggpo for you
How good is 2500 PP by the way?
I just started playing against actual people after a bit less than a week in the training mode and I apparently am playing vs 2000-3000 PP players and they really really suck. However I still lose vs them usually, I'd say because I cannot execute commands in an actual game as well as I can in the training hall and also because I don't know the matchups.
However, in that PP range the players will generally just spam a few skills, have extremely predictable wakeup game, etc. I guess it's still apparent they've played the game for a long time but... (As an example this one 3000 PP player just grabbed every time I missed an uppercut, grabbed as a reversal if I wasn't jumping at him with an aerial, always did the same jump kick -> low attack combo, very obvious crossups etc. I really wish I didn't need to think about what to do because that shit is super easy to counter if I could play with reflexes)
Of course this is PC, I guess PC players suck? Because these players honestly seem really really bad.
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EPT
Uryo (Sakura)![[image loading]](/staff/pachi/fgc/kw.png)
Latif (C. Viper)![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/flags2/pr.png)
PR Balrog (Boxer)
Gamerbee (Adon)
Dakou (Ryu)
Kusanagi (Seth)
Ryan Hart (Sagat)
DBKOOPA (Yun)
