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On April 24 2021 22:53 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2021 22:11 Manit0u wrote:On April 24 2021 21:49 Archeon wrote:
Yeah I agree with Manit0 that Grim Dawn is definitely worth trying if you get it on sale, as mentioned I know people who loved it and I personally don't think it's bad by any means. Like I mentioned there are parts that are amazing. It's just one of the games where some things bug me a lot because they don't work the way I think would be much better.
Thanks on the LE vid Manit0, might pick this up. Currently looking a bit for a game I can play for an hour and get a feeling of progression and I like hybrid characters, so the character building sounds good to me. I don't particularly like crafting systems, but I guess it's still better than being reliant on trading like in PoE.
Also call me a heretic but I want uniques and sets to be better than any alternative 99% of the time. I hear a lot of people citing normal items being competitive to uniques as a good point and while I get that reliance on uniques can make farming a bit tedious, I want to see the unique drop and be happy that I found something amazing. I hate that in PoE I don't wear 90% of the uniques I find. I also like uniques and sets but I think it's kinda hard to balance out. I absolutely hate D3 approach where your entire build is basically defined by the set you're wearing. I guess if you make normal items on par with uniques/sets so that you can choose the way you want to go freely would be nice (like, having less bonuses on normal items but those bonuses being more powerful so you can either cover more bases with a set or hyper-specialize with normal items). Also, I think crafting in LE is fine as it doesn't replace regular loot (you can craft affixes/suffixes on items up to T5 whereas you can get up to T7 from drops). I think this is quite good approach as you can pretty much craft gear that you can use in the endgame but if you want to top the ladder etc. you then have to find better stuff. So, you can craft to get strong and enable yourself for endgame but there's a cap on that. I look at it as a more controlled way to get the gear for your build that will enable true endgame without relying on RNG alone. You want something like chase unique is around 70-80 percent of the power of a perfectly rolled rare. This gives you items that are powerful, but still something to chase for besides the same item with different stats. Path of Exile was in a pretty good place in that regard until the conquerors of the atlas were added and the influenced bases completely trashed basically every unique item in the game. Suddenly there are rare items that have affixes you get get on uniques and additionally roll other important stats power creeping them out of the game. This is most easily spotted in the weapons category as even a perfect stat unique weapon is trash compared to the dps you can roll on a mediocre rare base. The hardest part of an aRPG is power creeping things because you want to get better and more interesting things over the years, but not in a way that destroys the old systems in the game.
Imo the problem is already there while leveling in PoE, most of the uniques just aren't significantly stronger than other items of the same level or drop way past their level, so often when I get them they are either already dated even if my build can use them. There are some exceptions where you have very strong effects on slots with little stats like belts, but especially weapon drops create exactly zero hype in PoE.
Also I'd prefer those ratios at 80-90 at least while leveling, imo uniques should generally trump what I'm wearing by the time they drop. Nothing's worse than getting a unique sound and getting giddy and then finding an item that is much worse than what you have.
On April 24 2021 22:11 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2021 21:49 Archeon wrote:
Yeah I agree with Manit0 that Grim Dawn is definitely worth trying if you get it on sale, as mentioned I know people who loved it and I personally don't think it's bad by any means. Like I mentioned there are parts that are amazing. It's just one of the games where some things bug me a lot because they don't work the way I think would be much better.
Thanks on the LE vid Manit0, might pick this up. Currently looking a bit for a game I can play for an hour and get a feeling of progression and I like hybrid characters, so the character building sounds good to me. I don't particularly like crafting systems, but I guess it's still better than being reliant on trading like in PoE.
Also call me a heretic but I want uniques and sets to be better than any alternative 99% of the time. I hear a lot of people citing normal items being competitive to uniques as a good point and while I get that reliance on uniques can make farming a bit tedious, I want to see the unique drop and be happy that I found something amazing. I hate that in PoE I don't wear 90% of the uniques I find. I also like uniques and sets but I think it's kinda hard to balance out. I absolutely hate D3 approach where your entire build is basically defined by the set you're wearing. I guess if you make normal items on par with uniques/sets so that you can choose the way you want to go freely would be nice (like, having less bonuses on normal items but those bonuses being more powerful so you can either cover more bases with a set or hyper-specialize with normal items). Also, I think crafting in LE is fine as it doesn't replace regular loot (you can craft affixes/suffixes on items up to T5 whereas you can get up to T7 from drops). I think this is quite good approach as you can pretty much craft gear that you can use in the endgame but if you want to top the ladder etc. you then have to find better stuff. So, you can craft to get strong and enable yourself for endgame but there's a cap on that. I look at it as a more controlled way to get the gear for your build that will enable true endgame without relying on RNG alone.
Imo the problem with d3's sets is how much the power escalates for the later set boni, effectively forcing you to wear the full set (or the ring and one item less). In d2 you often want 2-3 parts of a set because you want specific parts of the set bonuses and the rest is a bit weaker than uniques, so if you find other good items you swap around which part of the set you wear and imo that's both fun to theorycraft as well as fun in practice. I think having a slightly underpowered item in comparison to uniques or perfect rares and on occasion strong bonuses creates a deep system where you mix and match a lot depending on what you want.
The part about drops still trumping the crafting sounds good, thanks.
The problem with weak uniques is that they are supposed to be special. They are supposed to be capstones, they get special art and sound announcing that you found something worth keeping. I want to be happy when I find one and get attached to my shiny doomstick I swing for the next 5 hours.
What you describe is btw the item system in loop hero, which is a bit of a different genre, but I often intentionally dump monster quality to get more common items over rare ones.
Imo d2 did this fairly well and the only thing I'd change in that regard was to buff some underpowered uniques. But I feel that the ceiling in terms of rares/uniques/sets/Runewords is where it belongs, it's worth wearing most uniques, sets are worth getting 2-3 for and aren't bad if you wear them full, runewords have a power scaling depending on how hard they are to get and the very rare ones are incredibly powerful. And in some slots rares can be best in slot, so it's worth gambling on some slots and not on others. Overall this system leaves a lot of room for optimization and doesn't feel too incremental.
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On April 25 2021 00:23 Archeon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2021 22:53 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On April 24 2021 22:11 Manit0u wrote:On April 24 2021 21:49 Archeon wrote:
Yeah I agree with Manit0 that Grim Dawn is definitely worth trying if you get it on sale, as mentioned I know people who loved it and I personally don't think it's bad by any means. Like I mentioned there are parts that are amazing. It's just one of the games where some things bug me a lot because they don't work the way I think would be much better.
Thanks on the LE vid Manit0, might pick this up. Currently looking a bit for a game I can play for an hour and get a feeling of progression and I like hybrid characters, so the character building sounds good to me. I don't particularly like crafting systems, but I guess it's still better than being reliant on trading like in PoE.
Also call me a heretic but I want uniques and sets to be better than any alternative 99% of the time. I hear a lot of people citing normal items being competitive to uniques as a good point and while I get that reliance on uniques can make farming a bit tedious, I want to see the unique drop and be happy that I found something amazing. I hate that in PoE I don't wear 90% of the uniques I find. I also like uniques and sets but I think it's kinda hard to balance out. I absolutely hate D3 approach where your entire build is basically defined by the set you're wearing. I guess if you make normal items on par with uniques/sets so that you can choose the way you want to go freely would be nice (like, having less bonuses on normal items but those bonuses being more powerful so you can either cover more bases with a set or hyper-specialize with normal items). Also, I think crafting in LE is fine as it doesn't replace regular loot (you can craft affixes/suffixes on items up to T5 whereas you can get up to T7 from drops). I think this is quite good approach as you can pretty much craft gear that you can use in the endgame but if you want to top the ladder etc. you then have to find better stuff. So, you can craft to get strong and enable yourself for endgame but there's a cap on that. I look at it as a more controlled way to get the gear for your build that will enable true endgame without relying on RNG alone. You want something like chase unique is around 70-80 percent of the power of a perfectly rolled rare. This gives you items that are powerful, but still something to chase for besides the same item with different stats. Path of Exile was in a pretty good place in that regard until the conquerors of the atlas were added and the influenced bases completely trashed basically every unique item in the game. Suddenly there are rare items that have affixes you get get on uniques and additionally roll other important stats power creeping them out of the game. This is most easily spotted in the weapons category as even a perfect stat unique weapon is trash compared to the dps you can roll on a mediocre rare base. The hardest part of an aRPG is power creeping things because you want to get better and more interesting things over the years, but not in a way that destroys the old systems in the game. Imo the problem is already there while leveling in PoE, most of the uniques just aren't significantly stronger than other items of the same level or drop way past their level, so often when I get them they are either already dated even if my build can use them. There are some exceptions where you have very strong effects on slots with little stats like belts, but especially weapon drops create exactly zero hype in PoE. Also I'd prefer those ratios at 80-90 at least while leveling, imo uniques should generally trump what I'm wearing by the time they drop. Nothing's worse than getting a unique sound and getting giddy and then finding an item that is much worse than what you have.
You're missing the biggest reason leveling uniques suck in PoE. Gems and links. If I'm using a pair of gloves with 4L and I drop something that is 10% better stats wise, but doesn't have 4 sockets then it could be a detrimental investment for me to get it to 4L and proper colors so I probably wouldn't use it unless I can shift my gems to another slot.
Not only does my unique item need to be better, but it also needs gem links that I can fit into my build. This is being addressed in PoE2 at least.
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Damn, that Last Epoch video makes the game look pretty good, I love the character customisation. Which he says is probably the best he's seen lately, except for maybe Grim Dawn. Super tempted to pick one of the two up now, thanks to the active people in this thread for keeping the talk of this great genre going 
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agree Last Epoch seems nice with multi class cross spec possibilities and stuff, however 6 active skills max?? wonder about other aspects like coop or pvp but yeah seems nice
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On April 26 2021 07:51 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
wonder about other aspects like coop or pvp but yeah seems nice
There's no multiplayer yet (just global chat). It'll be added later.
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MP of LE will supposedly be added with the next patch coming late this year.
Started playing it and the lack of mobility and difficulty are the two things that bother me so far. But Necro-witch seems like an ultimate starter between pets, splash, range and lifesteal, so it might be more challenging for melees f.e.. Other than that I'm not really far enough to say anything, the scenario is somewhat interesting but lacks noticeable characters and enemies are more diverse than PoE but less than D2. Currently considering rushing through the story until difficulty starts climbing.
I like the strongly limited healing potions. I guess the skill design is very much inspired by d2, my necro has homing glowing skulls, a damage amp curse, different skeletons and bone spears shards that pierce enemies. Tbf they all have slight tweaks, i.e. I summon multiple skulls in a cone, the curse adds static damage on hit and as such scales with attack speed and summon count and I can tweak skills a bit through specialization. So overall the skills are solid and decently interesting, if a bit too familiar.
Edit: Forget what I said about mobility, I got a 4 sec cd teleport that aoe nukes and potentially fears.
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Did anyone watch MrLlama stream two days ago? 8 Man hell speedrun (from act1 normal to beat baal at act5 hell AND finish all conquests (after or before killing baal however you like).
WR before yesterday was like 6h and 25min. They did in 3h 15min. They did beat baal at hell at 2h and 35min (MrLama was lvl32 at this point and a barb aswell). In order to finish all conquests you have to be lvl60, so the last one hour was mostly about leveling him and that barb and finishing all remaining conquests in normal/nightmare/hell (between).
The other six were around lvl55-65 when killing baal.
MrLlama played as teleport-sorc. The other seven were 2 sorc + 1 druid + 1moral support barb + 2 assassin + 1 paladin.
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On May 25 2021 03:05 Dingodile wrote:
Did anyone watch MrLlama stream two days ago? 8 Man hell speedrun (from act1 normal to beat baal at act5 hell AND finish all conquests (after or before killing baal however you like).
WR before yesterday was like 6h and 25min. They did in 3h 15min. They did beat baal at hell at 2h and 35min (MrLama was lvl32 at this point and a barb aswell). In order to finish all conquests you have to be lvl60, so the last one hour was mostly about leveling him and that barb and finishing all remaining conquests in normal/nightmare/hell (between).
The other six were around lvl55-65 when killing baal.
MrLlama played as teleport-sorc. The other seven were 2 sorc + 1 druid + 1moral support barb + 2 assassin + 1 paladin.
Damn, that's crazy! They sounded super prepared. Just to be clear, when you say "conquests", you mean all the quests in each act, right? Like Den of Evil, Blood Raven, Countess, etc.?
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On May 25 2021 05:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2021 03:05 Dingodile wrote:
Did anyone watch MrLlama stream two days ago? 8 Man hell speedrun (from act1 normal to beat baal at act5 hell AND finish all conquests (after or before killing baal however you like).
WR before yesterday was like 6h and 25min. They did in 3h 15min. They did beat baal at hell at 2h and 35min (MrLama was lvl32 at this point and a barb aswell). In order to finish all conquests you have to be lvl60, so the last one hour was mostly about leveling him and that barb and finishing all remaining conquests in normal/nightmare/hell (between).
The other six were around lvl55-65 when killing baal.
MrLlama played as teleport-sorc. The other seven were 2 sorc + 1 druid + 1moral support barb + 2 assassin + 1 paladin. Damn, that's crazy! They sounded super prepared. Just to be clear, when you say "conquests", you mean all the quests in each act, right? Like Den of Evil, Blood Raven, Countess, etc.?
The 3h 15min mark is for clearing Ubers as an 8 man party, so the last hour was spent leveling and farming keys for Uber Tristram. They only finished the quests that gave skills/stats (and the quests required to complete the game of course), not every quest.
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Llamas hours in D2 have surpassed my BW hours. Insane dedication. But its cool to see some results from it. He truly is changing D2 meta.
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On May 25 2021 15:45 Battleship789 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2021 05:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 25 2021 03:05 Dingodile wrote:
Did anyone watch MrLlama stream two days ago? 8 Man hell speedrun (from act1 normal to beat baal at act5 hell AND finish all conquests (after or before killing baal however you like).
WR before yesterday was like 6h and 25min. They did in 3h 15min. They did beat baal at hell at 2h and 35min (MrLama was lvl32 at this point and a barb aswell). In order to finish all conquests you have to be lvl60, so the last one hour was mostly about leveling him and that barb and finishing all remaining conquests in normal/nightmare/hell (between).
The other six were around lvl55-65 when killing baal.
MrLlama played as teleport-sorc. The other seven were 2 sorc + 1 druid + 1moral support barb + 2 assassin + 1 paladin. Damn, that's crazy! They sounded super prepared. Just to be clear, when you say "conquests", you mean all the quests in each act, right? Like Den of Evil, Blood Raven, Countess, etc.? The 3h 15min mark is for clearing Ubers as an 8 man party, so the last hour was spent leveling and farming keys for Uber Tristram. They only finished the quests that gave skills/stats (and the quests required to complete the game of course), not every quest.
Gotcha, thanks!
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I haven't played D2 for years but I play it again for a week :D
I had a equipped merc (strong for normal and act1 nightmare) and but when I bought a new merc in act2 nightmare the equipped items are gone? I thought items just transfer to the new hired merc.
If this is correct then I hope D2:R fix this "problem".
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Netherlands4800 Posts
Correct. I highly doubt they will fix that, since mercs from different acts can't carry the same types of "hand gear". It would probably be too time consuming to code all the exceptions for a fix and also test all aspects of it for such a relatively small change.
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 the old merc had good items (for act1 nightmare definitely), killed everyone in 1-3 hits and he barely died. Hiring the merc was the first thing I did when I entered act2 nightmare.
The new one is dead in one shot and need 5+ hits to kill one So I play without a merc since then.
At least a warning like "you lose items if you change a merc" would be sufficient.
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just one of those things you learn the hard way. lucky for you youre only on nightmare, so you can literally walk around on players 8 with no merc and stomp everything anyway.
or with the increased drop rates it only takes about an hr of full playthrough for you to have equally decent gear to chuck onto your merc.
and also the holy freeze merc provides so much value that it doesnt even need gear before hell.
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I am playing with Plugy for the first time. I never played ladder but I want ladder runewords in single player.
I socketed Ral Tir Tal Sol into a Stave (for Insight) and nothing happened
edit: v1.14d and plugy 14.02
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maybe your base was a magic item?
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The Grim Dawn Diablo 1/2 mod "Reign of Terror" is pretty good too if you have that and don't mind a mix between all three games. It's a very nicely done remake of the Diablo world with GD, even if I hate that the Grim Dawn items still exist (as they're pretty inferior for the most part). Can still use the QOL mods Grim Internals and the stash tools as well.
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I played it, I can also highly recommend it. You can get some really whacky builds there because you pick 2 classes essentially.
I did a Hydra (sorc) + Conviction Aura (paladin) build and it was NUTS (ofc you get more skills like frost shield, holy shield, etc). Very cookie cutter, very OP but also very fun.
You can also mix Diablo 2 classes with Grim Dawn classes to get double necro or something but I don't think they were that OP...
You can also just pick one Diablo 2 class and never pick a 2nd class, but that would gimp you very hard. The mod is balanced around picking 2 classes and actually having skills from both.
It isn't a 100% carbon copy of just Diablo 2 mind you, they have some additional content added, from Grim Dawn like zone bosses and a system that is very much like Rifts from Diablo 3. That is actually where you find most end-game uniques and ultra-unique(literally one-of-a-kind) charms for your class(es).
The caveat here is that you need not only the base game of Grim Dawn, but also the 2 expansions for the mod to work properly.
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EPT
