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Diablo 2 thread - Page 33

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ProMeTheus112
Profile Joined December 2009
France2027 Posts
February 22 2021 08:58 GMT
#641
Mmmh well i can have a 2nd curiosity about pvp I just never engaged in it since HC and cheating.
DucK-
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Singapore11449 Posts
February 23 2021 02:56 GMT
#642
I missed the good old days of having 4v4 gm pvp in USWest. Usually the team combination are TrapSin/BoneNec/Druid/Barb because they each complement one another. TrapSin is to generally provide stun control with MindBlast. Barb is to buff with warcries, stun with Leap, and WW deal damage. Druid is just pure damage with tornado. And lastly BoneNec is a generic damage dealer, but more importantly casts Amplify Damage curse to buff Barb/Druid damage output.
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4139 Posts
February 24 2021 12:10 GMT
#643
original client will stay alive (unlike wc3:r).

D2:R is made by a different studio (Vicarious Vision, who made Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1 and 2 Remake and both they are really good).
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 25 2021 16:09 GMT
#644
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8943 Posts
February 25 2021 17:08 GMT
#645
the graphics are incredible imo. so good it almost makes me sad to think i might miss the crappier original graphics.
also this is what d4 should look like. they can update the spells and items as much as they want to bring a new game, i dont mind. but the fog thats in d2 needs to come back
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3274 Posts
February 25 2021 19:33 GMT
#646
It still looks a little brighter and more brown than the more blackish original to me, but I agree that it look good.
low gravity, yes-yes!
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands5998 Posts
February 25 2021 19:38 GMT
#647
All I'm wondering is if they will fix the pathing issue where u can become blocked but on your screen it looks like you're still advancing. Suddenly you go into hit recovery animation and your health drops from 100% to 10% because in reality there are 10 monsters hugging you to death.
This issue will still make most physical characters, especially with a bit of movement speed impossible to play. I would love to see a charge/zeal paladin actually be viable, instead of just enigma lamerdins. It is my biggest concern that Blizz won't fix it and you're forced to get teleport or spam tp to reset. The issue is actually most annoying in town, because then you cannot reset with teleport or tp.
Cow Levels were a huge success before 1.10 and greatly reduced having to deal with this issue.
FBH #1!
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17872 Posts
February 26 2021 16:11 GMT
#648
On February 26 2021 04:38 Peeano wrote:
All I'm wondering is if they will fix the pathing issue where u can become blocked but on your screen it looks like you're still advancing. Suddenly you go into hit recovery animation and your health drops from 100% to 10% because in reality there are 10 monsters hugging you to death.
This issue will still make most physical characters, especially with a bit of movement speed impossible to play. I would love to see a charge/zeal paladin actually be viable, instead of just enigma lamerdins. It is my biggest concern that Blizz won't fix it and you're forced to get teleport or spam tp to reset. The issue is actually most annoying in town, because then you cannot reset with teleport or tp.
Cow Levels were a huge success before 1.10 and greatly reduced having to deal with this issue.


I have run into this issue exactly 0 times in many years.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46692 Posts
February 26 2021 18:15 GMT
#649
On February 26 2021 04:38 Peeano wrote:
All I'm wondering is if they will fix the pathing issue where u can become blocked but on your screen it looks like you're still advancing. Suddenly you go into hit recovery animation and your health drops from 100% to 10% because in reality there are 10 monsters hugging you to death.
This issue will still make most physical characters, especially with a bit of movement speed impossible to play. I would love to see a charge/zeal paladin actually be viable, instead of just enigma lamerdins. It is my biggest concern that Blizz won't fix it and you're forced to get teleport or spam tp to reset. The issue is actually most annoying in town, because then you cannot reset with teleport or tp.
Cow Levels were a huge success before 1.10 and greatly reduced having to deal with this issue.


I always thought that that issue was due to lag?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Emnjay808
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States10666 Posts
February 26 2021 18:33 GMT
#650
90% sure its an online problem.
Skol
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-26 19:21:45
February 26 2021 19:19 GMT
#651
On February 27 2021 03:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2021 04:38 Peeano wrote:
All I'm wondering is if they will fix the pathing issue where u can become blocked but on your screen it looks like you're still advancing. Suddenly you go into hit recovery animation and your health drops from 100% to 10% because in reality there are 10 monsters hugging you to death.
This issue will still make most physical characters, especially with a bit of movement speed impossible to play. I would love to see a charge/zeal paladin actually be viable, instead of just enigma lamerdins. It is my biggest concern that Blizz won't fix it and you're forced to get teleport or spam tp to reset. The issue is actually most annoying in town, because then you cannot reset with teleport or tp.
Cow Levels were a huge success before 1.10 and greatly reduced having to deal with this issue.


I always thought that that issue was due to lag?


It has to do with how you talk to the server. Essentially your local client and the game server pass information back and forth frequently about what your character is doing. You had to do a hit recovery on the server side that didn't happen on the client side. On your screen you're continuing to run forward, but the server eventually tells you that you performed a hit recovery awhile ago and you're still standing there probably getting hit by a lot of things.

Path of Exile had a huge problem with this as well for awhile and introduced a new latency mode. Essentially if you lose connection then the game freezes instead of you continuing to run forward and the client predicting how the server will react. It is a trade off rather than one is better than the other. If you have bad ping then you want a client predictive interaction typically. With modern internet it's better to just talk to the server and not do prediction.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46692 Posts
February 26 2021 20:23 GMT
#652
On February 27 2021 04:19 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2021 03:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On February 26 2021 04:38 Peeano wrote:
All I'm wondering is if they will fix the pathing issue where u can become blocked but on your screen it looks like you're still advancing. Suddenly you go into hit recovery animation and your health drops from 100% to 10% because in reality there are 10 monsters hugging you to death.
This issue will still make most physical characters, especially with a bit of movement speed impossible to play. I would love to see a charge/zeal paladin actually be viable, instead of just enigma lamerdins. It is my biggest concern that Blizz won't fix it and you're forced to get teleport or spam tp to reset. The issue is actually most annoying in town, because then you cannot reset with teleport or tp.
Cow Levels were a huge success before 1.10 and greatly reduced having to deal with this issue.


I always thought that that issue was due to lag?


It has to do with how you talk to the server. Essentially your local client and the game server pass information back and forth frequently about what your character is doing. You had to do a hit recovery on the server side that didn't happen on the client side. On your screen you're continuing to run forward, but the server eventually tells you that you performed a hit recovery awhile ago and you're still standing there probably getting hit by a lot of things.

Path of Exile had a huge problem with this as well for awhile and introduced a new latency mode. Essentially if you lose connection then the game freezes instead of you continuing to run forward and the client predicting how the server will react. It is a trade off rather than one is better than the other. If you have bad ping then you want a client predictive interaction typically. With modern internet it's better to just talk to the server and not do prediction.


Interesting! Thanks for the explanation
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3274 Posts
February 27 2021 04:30 GMT
#653
On February 27 2021 04:19 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2021 03:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On February 26 2021 04:38 Peeano wrote:
All I'm wondering is if they will fix the pathing issue where u can become blocked but on your screen it looks like you're still advancing. Suddenly you go into hit recovery animation and your health drops from 100% to 10% because in reality there are 10 monsters hugging you to death.
This issue will still make most physical characters, especially with a bit of movement speed impossible to play. I would love to see a charge/zeal paladin actually be viable, instead of just enigma lamerdins. It is my biggest concern that Blizz won't fix it and you're forced to get teleport or spam tp to reset. The issue is actually most annoying in town, because then you cannot reset with teleport or tp.
Cow Levels were a huge success before 1.10 and greatly reduced having to deal with this issue.


I always thought that that issue was due to lag?


It has to do with how you talk to the server. Essentially your local client and the game server pass information back and forth frequently about what your character is doing. You had to do a hit recovery on the server side that didn't happen on the client side. On your screen you're continuing to run forward, but the server eventually tells you that you performed a hit recovery awhile ago and you're still standing there probably getting hit by a lot of things.

Path of Exile had a huge problem with this as well for awhile and introduced a new latency mode. Essentially if you lose connection then the game freezes instead of you continuing to run forward and the client predicting how the server will react. It is a trade off rather than one is better than the other. If you have bad ping then you want a client predictive interaction typically. With modern internet it's better to just talk to the server and not do prediction.

I feel that one is clearly better than the other though, because freezing means you don't die. The lag issue was always the biggest thing that stopped me from playing more HC.

Hopefully this will be fixed.
low gravity, yes-yes!
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
February 27 2021 04:47 GMT
#654
On February 27 2021 13:30 Archeon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2021 04:19 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On February 27 2021 03:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On February 26 2021 04:38 Peeano wrote:
All I'm wondering is if they will fix the pathing issue where u can become blocked but on your screen it looks like you're still advancing. Suddenly you go into hit recovery animation and your health drops from 100% to 10% because in reality there are 10 monsters hugging you to death.
This issue will still make most physical characters, especially with a bit of movement speed impossible to play. I would love to see a charge/zeal paladin actually be viable, instead of just enigma lamerdins. It is my biggest concern that Blizz won't fix it and you're forced to get teleport or spam tp to reset. The issue is actually most annoying in town, because then you cannot reset with teleport or tp.
Cow Levels were a huge success before 1.10 and greatly reduced having to deal with this issue.


I always thought that that issue was due to lag?


It has to do with how you talk to the server. Essentially your local client and the game server pass information back and forth frequently about what your character is doing. You had to do a hit recovery on the server side that didn't happen on the client side. On your screen you're continuing to run forward, but the server eventually tells you that you performed a hit recovery awhile ago and you're still standing there probably getting hit by a lot of things.

Path of Exile had a huge problem with this as well for awhile and introduced a new latency mode. Essentially if you lose connection then the game freezes instead of you continuing to run forward and the client predicting how the server will react. It is a trade off rather than one is better than the other. If you have bad ping then you want a client predictive interaction typically. With modern internet it's better to just talk to the server and not do prediction.

I feel that one is clearly better than the other though, because freezing means you don't die. The lag issue was always the biggest thing that stopped me from playing more HC.

Hopefully this will be fixed.


It's not like you're invulnerable until the game catches up. You can do inputs, but you can't see what the server thinks is happening. It has the advantage that you can potentially move or pot or attack the ground and hopefully kill whatever is there. Freezing probably bad verbiage on my part. If you lost connection for a few seconds then it will turn out fine most likely. If you disconnected then it depends on how fast the netcode drops your session and does a save and exit for you.

This has to be balanced with abuse/hardcore. If you can lag the game and force something favorable for yourself then that is bad design.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
ProMeTheus112
Profile Joined December 2009
France2027 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-27 17:13:01
February 27 2021 17:10 GMT
#655
On February 27 2021 13:47 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2021 13:30 Archeon wrote:
On February 27 2021 04:19 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On February 27 2021 03:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On February 26 2021 04:38 Peeano wrote:
All I'm wondering is if they will fix the pathing issue where u can become blocked but on your screen it looks like you're still advancing. Suddenly you go into hit recovery animation and your health drops from 100% to 10% because in reality there are 10 monsters hugging you to death.
This issue will still make most physical characters, especially with a bit of movement speed impossible to play. I would love to see a charge/zeal paladin actually be viable, instead of just enigma lamerdins. It is my biggest concern that Blizz won't fix it and you're forced to get teleport or spam tp to reset. The issue is actually most annoying in town, because then you cannot reset with teleport or tp.
Cow Levels were a huge success before 1.10 and greatly reduced having to deal with this issue.


I always thought that that issue was due to lag?


It has to do with how you talk to the server. Essentially your local client and the game server pass information back and forth frequently about what your character is doing. You had to do a hit recovery on the server side that didn't happen on the client side. On your screen you're continuing to run forward, but the server eventually tells you that you performed a hit recovery awhile ago and you're still standing there probably getting hit by a lot of things.

Path of Exile had a huge problem with this as well for awhile and introduced a new latency mode. Essentially if you lose connection then the game freezes instead of you continuing to run forward and the client predicting how the server will react. It is a trade off rather than one is better than the other. If you have bad ping then you want a client predictive interaction typically. With modern internet it's better to just talk to the server and not do prediction.

I feel that one is clearly better than the other though, because freezing means you don't die. The lag issue was always the biggest thing that stopped me from playing more HC.

Hopefully this will be fixed.


It's not like you're invulnerable until the game catches up. You can do inputs, but you can't see what the server thinks is happening. It has the advantage that you can potentially move or pot or attack the ground and hopefully kill whatever is there. Freezing probably bad verbiage on my part. If you lost connection for a few seconds then it will turn out fine most likely. If you disconnected then it depends on how fast the netcode drops your session and does a save and exit for you.

This has to be balanced with abuse/hardcore. If you can lag the game and force something favorable for yourself then that is bad design.

On the other hand when the game punishes you with permadeath for failing to properly display enemy attacks and status and even your own, it's completely unfair : P Some people stay away from HC for that reason and... I understand. Although personally it's really hard for me to do anything but HC since I started. It's awesome, but need solid server response. Which Bnet definitely doesn't always have. At some point they upgraded, but then issue still came up later. I think it's better on pservers which have multiple game servers, on one "gateway". These also don't seem to have a real issue dealing with cheaters (they successfully get banned), of course the main difference is that they actually take action lul.
kramvti
Profile Joined July 2019
73 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 19:52:50
February 28 2021 19:52 GMT
#656
On February 26 2021 04:38 Peeano wrote:
All I'm wondering is if they will fix the pathing issue where u can become blocked but on your screen it looks like you're still advancing. Suddenly you go into hit recovery animation and your health drops from 100% to 10% because in reality there are 10 monsters hugging you to death.
This issue will still make most physical characters, especially with a bit of movement speed impossible to play. I would love to see a charge/zeal paladin actually be viable, instead of just enigma lamerdins. It is my biggest concern that Blizz won't fix it and you're forced to get teleport or spam tp to reset. The issue is actually most annoying in town, because then you cannot reset with teleport or tp.
Cow Levels were a huge success before 1.10 and greatly reduced having to deal with this issue.



This was an issue almost singularly affecting Charge. I have made characters that will run right by teleporting sorc's and hammerdins. Hell, I was often told to slow down by them in places like Chaos Sanctuary.

I am much more interested to see if they ever addressed Strafelock. We solved this one over at the Hell Unleashed mod many years ago.
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3274 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 20:51:25
February 28 2021 20:50 GMT
#657
On February 27 2021 13:47 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2021 13:30 Archeon wrote:
On February 27 2021 04:19 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On February 27 2021 03:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On February 26 2021 04:38 Peeano wrote:
All I'm wondering is if they will fix the pathing issue where u can become blocked but on your screen it looks like you're still advancing. Suddenly you go into hit recovery animation and your health drops from 100% to 10% because in reality there are 10 monsters hugging you to death.
This issue will still make most physical characters, especially with a bit of movement speed impossible to play. I would love to see a charge/zeal paladin actually be viable, instead of just enigma lamerdins. It is my biggest concern that Blizz won't fix it and you're forced to get teleport or spam tp to reset. The issue is actually most annoying in town, because then you cannot reset with teleport or tp.
Cow Levels were a huge success before 1.10 and greatly reduced having to deal with this issue.


I always thought that that issue was due to lag?


It has to do with how you talk to the server. Essentially your local client and the game server pass information back and forth frequently about what your character is doing. You had to do a hit recovery on the server side that didn't happen on the client side. On your screen you're continuing to run forward, but the server eventually tells you that you performed a hit recovery awhile ago and you're still standing there probably getting hit by a lot of things.

Path of Exile had a huge problem with this as well for awhile and introduced a new latency mode. Essentially if you lose connection then the game freezes instead of you continuing to run forward and the client predicting how the server will react. It is a trade off rather than one is better than the other. If you have bad ping then you want a client predictive interaction typically. With modern internet it's better to just talk to the server and not do prediction.

I feel that one is clearly better than the other though, because freezing means you don't die. The lag issue was always the biggest thing that stopped me from playing more HC.

Hopefully this will be fixed.


It's not like you're invulnerable until the game catches up. You can do inputs, but you can't see what the server thinks is happening. It has the advantage that you can potentially move or pot or attack the ground and hopefully kill whatever is there. Freezing probably bad verbiage on my part. If you lost connection for a few seconds then it will turn out fine most likely. If you disconnected then it depends on how fast the netcode drops your session and does a save and exit for you.

This has to be balanced with abuse/hardcore. If you can lag the game and force something favorable for yourself then that is bad design.

Honestly if people want to cheat their hardcore mode in a PvE game, so what? I can alt+f4 offline as well if I really want to play hardcore without dying, but why would I play hardcore then?

Naturally these things need to looked at in the leaderboard, but then again the leaderboard at the end of a season is a small number of samples that even a human could look through.

On the flipside loosing my char because my server decides to lag is entirely unfair and extremely frustrating for no reason, if we are talking about bad game design this surely should take precedence?
low gravity, yes-yes!
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
February 28 2021 21:29 GMT
#658
On March 01 2021 05:50 Archeon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2021 13:47 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On February 27 2021 13:30 Archeon wrote:
On February 27 2021 04:19 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On February 27 2021 03:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On February 26 2021 04:38 Peeano wrote:
All I'm wondering is if they will fix the pathing issue where u can become blocked but on your screen it looks like you're still advancing. Suddenly you go into hit recovery animation and your health drops from 100% to 10% because in reality there are 10 monsters hugging you to death.
This issue will still make most physical characters, especially with a bit of movement speed impossible to play. I would love to see a charge/zeal paladin actually be viable, instead of just enigma lamerdins. It is my biggest concern that Blizz won't fix it and you're forced to get teleport or spam tp to reset. The issue is actually most annoying in town, because then you cannot reset with teleport or tp.
Cow Levels were a huge success before 1.10 and greatly reduced having to deal with this issue.


I always thought that that issue was due to lag?


It has to do with how you talk to the server. Essentially your local client and the game server pass information back and forth frequently about what your character is doing. You had to do a hit recovery on the server side that didn't happen on the client side. On your screen you're continuing to run forward, but the server eventually tells you that you performed a hit recovery awhile ago and you're still standing there probably getting hit by a lot of things.

Path of Exile had a huge problem with this as well for awhile and introduced a new latency mode. Essentially if you lose connection then the game freezes instead of you continuing to run forward and the client predicting how the server will react. It is a trade off rather than one is better than the other. If you have bad ping then you want a client predictive interaction typically. With modern internet it's better to just talk to the server and not do prediction.

I feel that one is clearly better than the other though, because freezing means you don't die. The lag issue was always the biggest thing that stopped me from playing more HC.

Hopefully this will be fixed.


It's not like you're invulnerable until the game catches up. You can do inputs, but you can't see what the server thinks is happening. It has the advantage that you can potentially move or pot or attack the ground and hopefully kill whatever is there. Freezing probably bad verbiage on my part. If you lost connection for a few seconds then it will turn out fine most likely. If you disconnected then it depends on how fast the netcode drops your session and does a save and exit for you.

This has to be balanced with abuse/hardcore. If you can lag the game and force something favorable for yourself then that is bad design.

Honestly if people want to cheat their hardcore mode in a PvE game, so what? I can alt+f4 offline as well if I really want to play hardcore without dying, but why would I play hardcore then?

Naturally these things need to looked at in the leaderboard, but then again the leaderboard at the end of a season is a small number of samples that even a human could look through.

On the flipside loosing my char because my server decides to lag is entirely unfair and extremely frustrating for no reason, if we are talking about bad game design this surely should take precedence?


Compare Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 for instance. Diablo 2 allows chickening in that a save and exit will instantly save your character. Diablo 3 does not allow chickening and you must wait 15 seconds to logout if you're in combat. I don't consider connection issues a bad game design issue. Neither of these methods are wrong or bad game design. You're making a trade off and the rest of your game should flow around that decision.

If you disconnect then there is a delay between the game server realizing you're not there and force disconnecting you. In a game with small time to kill, there is basically zero chance of you surviving a disconnect. Personally, I don't like boss fights that are based around 10 minutes of my character has enough sustain to eventually dps the boss down.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Archeon
Profile Joined May 2011
3274 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 23:54:04
February 28 2021 23:46 GMT
#659
I don't see the problem with the server freezing areas where only one player is active if if it recognizes package loss by that player over a certain threshold. Yes it might still kill you, but it's better than the current state where at times you have a lag or mini-dc for 3-4 secs, the server restores the full connection and you either got super lucky on your random attacks and heal timings or immediately die because the server didn't pause the state and you get hit by a dozen of attacks. I have never experienced this as badly as in d2 in any game I remember. PoE and D3 are nowhere near as bad in this.

Hell sc2 pauses if an observer lags, why should d2 not pause when the only player in the game lags? Like you say they allow you to intentionally chicken out, there is already a way to instantaneously leave the game, so there's no reason to not prioritize the player character survival.

I read design and thought game design, and no I'm not in favor of them touching the monster dps. I still don't see the tradeoff of lags not freezing the game temporarily, especially if you aren't in an 8 person random group.
low gravity, yes-yes!
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-01 01:53:56
March 01 2021 01:36 GMT
#660
On March 01 2021 08:46 Archeon wrote:
I don't see the problem with the server freezing areas where only one player is active if if it recognizes package loss by that player over a certain threshold. Yes it might still kill you, but it's better than the current state where at times you have a lag or mini-dc for 3-4 secs, the server restores the full connection and you either got super lucky on your random attacks and heal timings or immediately die because the server didn't pause the state and you get hit by a dozen of attacks. I have never experienced this as badly as in d2 in any game I remember. PoE and D3 are nowhere near as bad in this.

Hell sc2 pauses if an observer lags, why should d2 not pause when the only player in the game lags? Like you say they allow you to intentionally chicken out, there is already a way to instantaneously leave the game, so there's no reason to not prioritize the player character survival.

I read design and thought game design, and no I'm not in favor of them touching the monster dps. I still don't see the tradeoff of lags not freezing the game temporarily, especially if you aren't in an 8 person random group.


Citing path of exile specifically seems misguided. Did you not play before they introduced lock step latency? The days of desyncing and oos macros were awful and many game mechanics were avoided just to mitigate the effects. Maybe that isn't so different from Diablo 2, but I'm not sure remaking the game's netcode is viable.

If you go for some sort of hybrid where you can play offline and online then you end up with open battlenet. I don't think I need any further explanation on why that is awful.

The freezing is an interesting thought, but I don't think it has ever been done in an aRPG. Implementation sounds incredibly difficult to make it playable, especially in cases where you're dropping some packets. Eight man parties with everything going on and everything having to be fully synced may just not be viable.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
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