EPTAlso maybe consider stuff like, which game takes the most effort to be pro at? What game do you learn the quickest?
Peace
Highest skillcap
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sebsejr
213 Posts
Also maybe consider stuff like, which game takes the most effort to be pro at? What game do you learn the quickest? Peace | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
broodwar ofcourse. not even close to anything. for me the next things i have most "respect" for are quakestyle fps games like painkiller,warsaw etc and 2d fighting games (smash bros melee imho hardest). | ||
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nymfaw
Norway430 Posts
There are so many games out there that it's hard to name certains but i think RTS is #1 | ||
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mute20
Canada175 Posts
Shooter: Quake 1-3 Stratagy: chess/starcraft 1 | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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jtype
England2167 Posts
You could also look at team-based games like DotA/HoN/LoL/CSS/CS1.6 and observe the skill of the players when it comes to skilfully operating as a team; perhaps skilfully communicating information from the game to each other. You can't really overlook any aspect of what it takes to play a particular game, when it comes to discussing this. It's hard enough to decide exactly what 'skill' actually is, in gaming terms, let alone try to find out which game is the hardest or has the highest skill ceiling. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17719 Posts
Explanation: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iECXl.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/8/11/b98a628e-ceb0-4eab-ae32-6f928736b112.png) ![[image loading]](http://df.magmawiki.com/images/4/40/FunComic.png) If you never tried it, you should. Just to see what "hardcore" really means. | ||
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sanya
482 Posts
broodwar otherwise probably | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On May 12 2011 07:44 Eppa! wrote: Some of the harder games that I know of are: CS 1.6, BW, SSBM, DotA all require huge amount of time to learn the basics of competitive play. dont think cs and dota belong in there. ofcourse they are great competive games but bw and ssbm are in a different world when it comes to learning. i ringed for cs teams in leagues with almost no knowledge. just had my decent aim from quake and did what they told me. same for dota playing it at a quite good level without ever caring just by having decent teammates.its fun when you get called out for amazing chen micro when you just control 5 units . for ssbm i playd months to just somewhat get the basic movement down.moving around by spamming stuff where you have to hit a time window of like 1/20 of a second is cool ~. i really tried to improve and still sucked pretty much. and bw i playd for years and still could just get like c+/b- level.and compared to actual pros i was still terrible. dont say cs/dota are easy but its way easier to get decent at them compared to the other 2. | ||
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Varpulis
United States2517 Posts
On May 12 2011 07:46 Manit0u wrote: You're wrong... Explanation: + Show Spoiler + If you never tried it, you should. Just to see what "hardcore" really means. I was just about to post that! I'm trying to get into it, but my shit keeps dying. I'm 100% certain that I'm doing  The level of depth that has gone into the creation of this game is astounding, though. | ||
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Az0r_au
Australia385 Posts
On May 12 2011 07:50 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: dont think cs and dota belong in there. ofcourse they are great competive games but bw and ssbm are in a different world when it comes to learning. i ringed for cs teams in leagues with almost no knowledge. just had my decent aim from quake and did what they told me. same for dota playing it at a quite good level without ever caring just by having decent teammates.its fun when you get called out for amazing chen micro when you just control 5 units . for ssbm i playd months to just somewhat get the basic movement down.moving around by spamming stuff where you have to hit a time window of like 1/20 of a second is cool ~. i really tried to improve and still sucked pretty much. and bw i playd for years and still could just get like c+/b- level.and compared to actual pros i was still terrible. dont say cs/dota are easy but its way easier to get decent at them compared to the other 2. There's a reason it took cs and dota teams months and years of playing with the same or similar line up to build up team chemistry. The games are more than having good aim or good hero control. You have to make your decisions as a team not an individual, know how your team mates are going to react before you even make your moves. I played WoW with the same group of 3 friends from lvl 70 onwards and we could arena at a top level in the toughest BG group without using vent because we could virtually read each others minds. I couldn't even come close to that in Dota or CS because they are miles and miles harder than WoW. | ||
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Seide
United States831 Posts
really low skill cap, unitll you get into the top .5-1% of raiding, then it is actually quite higher. Thought this skillcap is usually a skillcap on how good your teamwork and reaction skills are, not at how good you are at playing your specific character. Arena was more or less a joke, where playing certain comps and winning is a matter of performing an algorithm based on the comp you are playing. It was hardly based on skills, as there are comps who can dominate and other comps who simply cannot beat certain other comps if said comp plays correctly. This has also been getting worse and worse the more Blizzard has tried to "balance" things. I think lately they have given up and decided if you have half a brain and play the right comps, you are deserving of a top rating. Honestly the closest WoW has ever been to balance in PvP was when they their original 13 rank system in Vanilla. For raiding, it is actually extremely hard to find good people to play with for top guilds. Every single person you have that pays attention, keeps a cool head, and is very good at their class and math is a godsend. Often times, if a top dps left your guild, it could leave that spot vacant for months until you could find a comparable person, especially for guilds outside of the top10, but still in the top25. It's a completely different game when you are in a top guild where you actually have to develop your own strategy to an encounter, not just copy a strategy a top guild did 3 weeks after a world first kill. The only time WoW actually takes skill to play in PvE, is the first month or so of new content, but this only applies to about maybe 300-500 people out of the whole WoW population(and I might be overestimating that as it is only the top10 guilds, and that is 250 main raiders + alternate raiders). Top level WoW PvE is actually pretty interesting, I find it sad that it gets such a bad rep because only about 1000 people who play the game even can really perform at that level, and even less actually get exposed to what top level WoW is. Its like if a persons only impressions of BW is from watching a D/C level player play. Its funny, I have played WoW on and off since release with guilds such as Blood Legion and Gentlemen's Club as an average player/officer in those guilds. Quit after we cleared WotLK content. After 4+ years of WoW I cannot really relate to anyone who played that game apart from old guildmembers and people in a similar positions, because it is like we were playing different games. Yet there are people who are even higher up than me, like GMs and world record dps holders, who feel the same way toward me, for the exact same reasons. The difficulty of the encounters though have been steadily decreasing since Burning Crusade, and as I havent played in some time, I cannot speak for the game in its current state, only from my own personal experiences in Vanilla/BC/WotLK. In the end it though really did come down to how thick skinned you were to be able to handle constant drama(and holy shit man, some of the drama was unbelievable), and how commited you were to doing the math/grinding neccesary to optimize your character. Its hard to place WoW, because of the social aspect to it and the fact that in raiding, you aren't really trying to beat anyone as much as you are trying to create a well oiled machine. On one hand its not too hard to play, on the other theres so much shit you have to deal with outside of playing it. Many times in a 25 man raid group, even though those people raided together, many people actually straight up hated other people in the guild. I know I have played for a lot of time with people I hated, but had to so we could get shit done. Having a successful guild was closer to running a HR/Conflict Resolution department of a successful business than playing an actual game. Apart from BW, I cannot think of many games that have a high individual skill cap. Many get their skillcap from team chemistry. A Note on the people posting Dwarf Fortress: There is a difference between a high learning curve and a high skill cap. Dwarf Fortress has a high learning curve, but a not a high skill cap because there are too many random factors for skill to ever account for. Jeez I ended up writing a lot more than intended, but my fingers just kept flying since it irks me that people who make conclusions about WoW have no idea what goes on at the highest level and seem to judge solely on pvp, which in reality has been a joke in WoW for years. Its like someone judging SC, while only having played Fastest. TLDR: WoW PvP: pretty much a joke WoW PvE: pretty intricate at top level, and it is hard to place it. | ||
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Kelwyn
Germany143 Posts
On May 12 2011 07:47 sanya wrote: daoc 8v8 at about ~rr10 level without adds if we're talking teamfights broodwar otherwise probably DAoC was pretty intense, I'm kinda missing the old times there. (are you THE sanya thomas btw?) Apart from that, I think its mainly the classical FPS and Broodwar. Maybe Guild Wars for PvP, never got into it though. | ||
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N.geNuity
United States5112 Posts
If you try nethack without reading any "spoilers" or tips from the internet its near impossible (or at least would take a lot of time to learn; as in weeks or months of quality time). So I've been told. | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On May 12 2011 07:44 synapse wrote: I'd say the most mechanically demanding game would be GunZ. oh man i remember that game. kstyle or w.e that was and constantly jumping around with ur sword. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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Seide
United States831 Posts
On May 12 2011 08:13 blackone wrote: Skillcap is such a stupid word to use. The "skill cap" in WoW for example is reached by a raid that is able to kill every boss on their very first try. Nobody is or was ever even close to that. BroodWar pros keep getting better, because there is no point where skill is capped, there is always room for improvement in almost every game. I think by skillcap most people really mean the skillcurve. How far ahead is someone who is in the top 1% vs top 10% vs someone who is average/pretty good. | ||
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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
i think you should rename this mechanical/technical skill cap, not skillcap. | ||
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