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Elder Scrolls V - Skyrim - Page 472

Forum Index > General Games
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Gtoad
Profile Joined October 2011
United States90 Posts
December 12 2011 17:08 GMT
#9421
On my "prot pally" toon...i went from 5-100 Block by letting giants swing on me while blocking, then running around healing myself to full. Rinse repeat for about 3-4 hours and voila! 100 block and super pally The Shield Charge ability is hilarious in combination with the ragdoll physics in this game..knocking frost trolls and bears off 100 foot cliffs is probably the most fun I've had in this game <3
To succeed you must fail, many many times.
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
December 12 2011 17:39 GMT
#9422
I'm trying to not read anything about the game while playing, but I did hear that I'm supposed to complete a quest before I can go to an Orc stronghold.

Some random orc told me about a hold in the SW corner of the map and marked it on my map, so I travelled there at night and just walked right in and into the mine. I also punched their leader a few times for some gold. Am I missing something here?
Grend
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1600 Posts
December 12 2011 18:26 GMT
#9423
On December 13 2011 02:39 Sandster wrote:
I'm trying to not read anything about the game while playing, but I did hear that I'm supposed to complete a quest before I can go to an Orc stronghold.

Some random orc told me about a hold in the SW corner of the map and marked it on my map, so I travelled there at night and just walked right in and into the mine. I also punched their leader a few times for some gold. Am I missing something here?


Are you an orc?
♞ Against the Wind - Bob Seger ♞
Grend
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1600 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 18:32:29
December 12 2011 18:32 GMT
#9424
On December 13 2011 01:37 Tula wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 00:36 Hikari wrote:
On December 13 2011 00:06 HaXXspetten wrotfire:
On December 13 2011 00:01 Tomazi wrote:
I don't understand how sneak is broken? Even with 3x sneak shots, a boss will still take aaaaaaaaagggggggessssssss to kill on master. I had to fight krosis with my dwarven bow, I think I used over 120 arrows.

There are many ways to abuse sneak in unintended ways.
Also, if you're going for damage multipliers via sneak attacks, then it is via daggers that is broken and not bows. You can get 30x backstab damage with daggers... 30x -.-

60x if you are fancy enough to do a roll before the stab without running into the enemy.

The "broken" thing with sneak+archery is that you can hide in a shadowed area and snipe things over and over and they may not notice your presence at all.

//
Another "unintended" balance issue has to do with +%dmg (ie: +1 handed damage, x2 backstab) modifier on equipment. I value them far above other modifiers (maybe other than resistance vs casters).

I leveled blacksmithing in my 1st toon so I can make better equipment, I didn't know it will turn me into a demon that crushes anything in my path.
I leveled conjuration on my 2nd toon so I can summon things to tank for me while I shoot, like a hunter. I didn't know that eventually my daedric summon would be the one doing all the killing.
I level destruction on my 3rd toon so I can play like a mage, killing enemies with my elemental magics. I didn't know that I can stunlock enemies, or that a boss will eventually be so strong as to eat up 3 magika bars full of my most powerful spells and still be at 80% hp in masters....
I leveled sneaked on my 4th toon so I can sneak around and assassinate people. I didn't know that NPCs would be so blind as to not notice I am sneaking in front of their face.

I have fun playing skyrim when I restrain myself from "accidentally" becoming overpowered. I want to be able to abuse every single element and still be challenged.


In all fairness almost every gamer knows that if you "stack" abusive mechanics enough almost any game can be broken. The only way they can prevent that is to prevent all possible abuses, which means the rewards for all those mechanics suck.

Let me give you an example, say you want to play a Warrior, not a berserker just a plain run of the mill warrior, with heavy armor, shield and 1h weapon. Now logically that character will focus on smithing since he will need to craft his gear and improve it later.

From an RP standpoint smithing needs to be good enough that he can play the game without ever enchanting anything himself (or at least not above level 40 enchanting or so, which you can reach without farming) and without making much headway into alchemy. So smithing must be decent at the very least.


Next we have a completly different char who wants to go for a mageish style, so enchanting must be strong as well.

Then we have alchemy for the 3rd crafting skill. By itself all these 3 are not a problem, but if we stack them (and we do stack them ) we end up with skyrim :D

As i said before, i am flabbergasted that they did not cap the skills at some point ("you can't ever have more than 100 points in this, no matter how many modifiers your gear has") to prevent "crossbuffing" but i can easily see why the skills by themselves are as strong as they are. Frankly they need to be for the game to make any sense at all.

The only balance part i completly disagree with is the Destruction tree in comparison to the conjuration tree. I was shocked that a pure Destruction mage simply sucks. That makes no sense at all, but it shows what kind of characters they had in mind when they "made" the engine (mostly swordswinging or archery types).

Oh restoration is also very lackluster compared to what i hoped it would be. I hoped it would mean i could play a healing char who focuses on keeping their companion alive, good luck with that on master difficulty

You dont need to stack to break this game though.
Maxing any tree or doing any pure class or almost any class mix lets you break the game..
Stagger bow even makes it gg for me.
♞ Against the Wind - Bob Seger ♞
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
December 12 2011 18:38 GMT
#9425
On December 13 2011 03:26 Grend wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 02:39 Sandster wrote:
I'm trying to not read anything about the game while playing, but I did hear that I'm supposed to complete a quest before I can go to an Orc stronghold.

Some random orc told me about a hold in the SW corner of the map and marked it on my map, so I travelled there at night and just walked right in and into the mine. I also punched their leader a few times for some gold. Am I missing something here?


Are you an orc?


No, Imperial.
Tula
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria1544 Posts
December 12 2011 18:40 GMT
#9426
On December 13 2011 03:38 Sandster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 03:26 Grend wrote:
On December 13 2011 02:39 Sandster wrote:
I'm trying to not read anything about the game while playing, but I did hear that I'm supposed to complete a quest before I can go to an Orc stronghold.

Some random orc told me about a hold in the SW corner of the map and marked it on my map, so I travelled there at night and just walked right in and into the mine. I also punched their leader a few times for some gold. Am I missing something here?


Are you an orc?


No, Imperial.

not sure since i haven't visited all of them, but usually they either give you the quest when you get there, or you can visit it normally without any quest.

So far i haven't had a single stronghold which simply attacked me on sight on my nord and breton characters.
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
December 12 2011 19:55 GMT
#9427
On December 13 2011 02:39 Sandster wrote:
I'm trying to not read anything about the game while playing, but I did hear that I'm supposed to complete a quest before I can go to an Orc stronghold.

Some random orc told me about a hold in the SW corner of the map and marked it on my map, so I travelled there at night and just walked right in and into the mine. I also punched their leader a few times for some gold. Am I missing something here?


If you did the quest in Mark to clear the mine of Forsworn then it bypasses the quest to enter them (there may be other quests that bypass it but dunno).

Normally you have to go find them a piece of armor with +smithing (gloves I think) to get in. However if you clear that mine for that quest one of the miners says that he will tell the strongholds that you're ok and to let you in.
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
December 12 2011 20:05 GMT
#9428
On December 13 2011 04:55 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 02:39 Sandster wrote:
I'm trying to not read anything about the game while playing, but I did hear that I'm supposed to complete a quest before I can go to an Orc stronghold.

Some random orc told me about a hold in the SW corner of the map and marked it on my map, so I travelled there at night and just walked right in and into the mine. I also punched their leader a few times for some gold. Am I missing something here?


If you did the quest in Mark to clear the mine of Forsworn then it bypasses the quest to enter them (there may be other quests that bypass it but dunno).

Normally you have to go find them a piece of armor with +smithing (gloves I think) to get in. However if you clear that mine for that quest one of the miners says that he will tell the strongholds that you're ok and to let you in.


Ah that makes sense - thanks.

+smithing sounds really good though, too bad it sounds like I have to randomly explore dungeons to find them now.
Offhand
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1869 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 20:48:05
December 12 2011 20:46 GMT
#9429
You need to gain the approval of an Orc to become "bloodkin" or something so the Orcs allow you into strongholds. I cleared out a random mine and asked the Orc miner for that designation and I was allowed in. I don't know if there are other ways to do this because the two locations were on opposite sides of the map and there's multiple strongholds. Not all orcs can do this, the one at the mage's college didn't even have the option to ask.
Skilledblob
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany3392 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 21:04:50
December 12 2011 21:04 GMT
#9430
On December 13 2011 05:46 Offhand wrote:
You need to gain the approval of an Orc to become "bloodkin" or something so the Orcs allow you into strongholds. I cleared out a random mine and asked the Orc miner for that designation and I was allowed in. I don't know if there are other ways to do this because the two locations were on opposite sides of the map and there's multiple strongholds. Not all orcs can do this, the one at the mage's college didn't even have the option to ask.


the Orc at the mage college does it after you got some books back for him. Doesnt have a dialogue option but when you finish one of his quests he just does it.
Ketch
Profile Joined October 2010
Netherlands7285 Posts
December 12 2011 21:19 GMT
#9431
Did anyone notice Jarl Igmund has a peculiar choice of night wear?

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

Gotta love them bugs sometimes
BeMannerDuPenner
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Germany5638 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 21:26:55
December 12 2011 21:23 GMT
#9432
On December 13 2011 05:05 Sandster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 04:55 On_Slaught wrote:
On December 13 2011 02:39 Sandster wrote:
I'm trying to not read anything about the game while playing, but I did hear that I'm supposed to complete a quest before I can go to an Orc stronghold.

Some random orc told me about a hold in the SW corner of the map and marked it on my map, so I travelled there at night and just walked right in and into the mine. I also punched their leader a few times for some gold. Am I missing something here?


If you did the quest in Mark to clear the mine of Forsworn then it bypasses the quest to enter them (there may be other quests that bypass it but dunno).

Normally you have to go find them a piece of armor with +smithing (gloves I think) to get in. However if you clear that mine for that quest one of the miners says that he will tell the strongholds that you're ok and to let you in.


Ah that makes sense - thanks.

+smithing sounds really good though, too bad it sounds like I have to randomly explore dungeons to find them now.


nah. go to a orc stronghold and theyll ask you to retrieve the gloves with quest marker and all.

and they arent that great. think they were 12% increased, i found 17% incr gloves before that
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
AutomatonOmega
Profile Joined February 2011
United States706 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 21:31:57
December 12 2011 21:28 GMT
#9433
On December 12 2011 21:50 aebriol wrote:
Uhm ... so I started a new game on master.
1) Go to riverwood and get friendly with the archer. Train / pick pocket / train / pick pocket and level up to 12-13 or so I think (50 archery).
2) Did a little killing in the nearby area (the mine, some bandits, nothing big).
3) Went to whiterun, to arcadia. Train alchemy / pick pocket / train alchemy / train pick pocket ... to lvl 22.
4) Into the inn, start a brawl with the singer, go into corner with a mix of light and heavy armor. Difficulty novice ...
.... sleep ...
.... work ....

Level ... uhm, well I'll update when I get home ... then I'll do speech, smithing, enchant, and tonight afk while sneaking near a giant ...

The game just seems ... quite a bit exploitable with it's leveling system. But on the other hand, if you try to play on master, and end up doing tradeskills too early, you kind of mess up your character because the opponents are too high a level for your gear.

So choice seems to be ... either hold off on tradeskills until lvl 25-30 or so ... or just level up whatever you want in the most efficient manner possible. On my second character, I ended up being way too weak for playing on harder difficulties, since I did smithing too early, and was playing around with pick pocket etc, and ended up lvl 18-19 with lvl 1 gear.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should, lol. Play the game organically and enjoy it, or exploit and be bored.

Also AFIK doing any quest for any orc (bringing the Daedra Heart or the book to the Male or Female Orc in Markarth respectively, etc etc) will get you access to any orc stronghold.
LagT_T
Profile Joined March 2010
Argentina535 Posts
December 12 2011 21:48 GMT
#9434
The leveling system wasn't designed for Greg Grinder but for John Casual, and I don't see John complaining.
"The tactics... no. Amateurs discuss tactics, professional soldiers study logistics." - Tom Clancy, Red Storm Rising
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-12 21:54:13
December 12 2011 21:52 GMT
#9435
The level-up system is clearly designed so that you don't pay attention to your skillups at all on your first playthrough (unlike Oblivion), and focusing on exploring and living in the world. Power gamers will always exist but you can complain about every single player game if that's the case (FF7, hi). Even stuff like BG2 had ridiculously broken classes for you to solo the entire game with fairly easily, but doing so on your first run through completely ruins your enjoyment of the game.
AutomatonOmega
Profile Joined February 2011
United States706 Posts
December 12 2011 22:45 GMT
#9436
On December 13 2011 06:52 Sandster wrote:
The level-up system is clearly designed so that you don't pay attention to your skillups at all on your first playthrough (unlike Oblivion), and focusing on exploring and living in the world. Power gamers will always exist but you can complain about every single player game if that's the case (FF7, hi). Even stuff like BG2 had ridiculously broken classes for you to solo the entire game with fairly easily, but doing so on your first run through completely ruins your enjoyment of the game.

I'm personally in the crowd that doesn't really complain about the exploitability of the system, but FF7 isn't exactly a good choice for a comparison, mostly because it had some optional encounters that required you to exploit and powergame to defeat, and any similar encounter in Skyrim probably wouldn't represent the same level of difficulty due to the exploitability of the mechanics of the combat engine (a problem not really present in FF7).
Calm
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada380 Posts
December 12 2011 22:57 GMT
#9437
Awesome game. So far my favorite place has been + Show Spoiler +
Blackreach
. So much like Morrowind, yet so different (with the giant mushrooms and stuff like that - a real departure from the more realistic worlds they've tried to create with Oblivion and Skyrim). Any other awesome places like this that people can recommend?
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
December 12 2011 23:01 GMT
#9438
On December 13 2011 07:57 Calm wrote:
Awesome game. So far my favorite place has been + Show Spoiler +
Blackreach
. So much like Morrowind, yet so different (with the giant mushrooms and stuff like that - a real departure from the more realistic worlds they've tried to create with Oblivion and Skyrim). Any other awesome places like this that people can recommend?

How huge is ít anyway? With my 2nd char i'll have to visit it again but with my first char i did not clear it, that's for sure...
Carnagath
Profile Joined July 2010
230 Posts
December 12 2011 23:02 GMT
#9439
On December 13 2011 07:57 Calm wrote:
Awesome game. So far my favorite place has been + Show Spoiler +
Blackreach
. So much like Morrowind, yet so different (with the giant mushrooms and stuff like that - a real departure from the more realistic worlds they've tried to create with Oblivion and Skyrim). Any other awesome places like this that people can recommend?


I'm level 55 and I haven't been there yet, maybe because I haven't touched the main quest after visiting the Greybeards. I believe the main quest takes you there, right? I hear it's cool though.
"If you can chill, chill". -Tyler
Calm
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada380 Posts
December 12 2011 23:06 GMT
#9440
On December 13 2011 08:01 HolydaKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 07:57 Calm wrote:
Awesome game. So far my favorite place has been + Show Spoiler +
Blackreach
. So much like Morrowind, yet so different (with the giant mushrooms and stuff like that - a real departure from the more realistic worlds they've tried to create with Oblivion and Skyrim). Any other awesome places like this that people can recommend?

How huge is ít anyway? With my 2nd char i'll have to visit it again but with my first char i did not clear it, that's for sure...


It's pretty big, hard to put into terms that people can deal with but I think it's like 2x solitude? That's really rough though, no other area is confined like it. Its funny where you come out from some of the elevators on the world map compared to where you went in though. I would recommend doing the red nirnroot quest down there just to force you to explore. It's so pretty O.O

On December 13 2011 08:02 Carnagath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 07:57 Calm wrote:
Awesome game. So far my favorite place has been + Show Spoiler +
Blackreach
. So much like Morrowind, yet so different (with the giant mushrooms and stuff like that - a real departure from the more realistic worlds they've tried to create with Oblivion and Skyrim). Any other awesome places like this that people can recommend?


I'm level 55 and I haven't been there yet, maybe because I haven't touched the main quest after visiting the Greybeards. I believe the main quest takes you there, right? I hear it's cool though.


It is main quest, but didn't take me that long to get there. I was losing interest a bit in the game, but the main quest really brought me back into it. At level 55 it should be an absolute breeze too. Lots of those blind elf monstrosity things, but with sneaking and a dagger you can kill them in one hit (I play on adept I think?)



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