The Quarians and Geth are really the only two factions who would have happy endings, seeing as most of their citizens were left alone by the Reapers, and they have an untouched world to colonize now. Everyone else has been reduced to shadows of their former selves, and all have homeworlds that need to be completely rebuilt. Maybe the Krogans have a mildly good end too, since their genophage may be cured depending on how you played, and their world was a shit-hole to begin with.
Either way, even if things had gone as planned, I wouldn't call that kind of ending happy.
I wouldnt say, Quarians and Geth got a happy end. The FTL isnt possible anymore. The Quarians and Geth have now a homeworld, without a chance to reach it. Ever.
It's not as though the Quarians brought every single ship to the final battle...
Most of the flotilla consisted of non-combat ships, which would have been left on their home planet. Even if they did take every single ship, it's not as though they would need to take all their civilians with them as well. Geth are roughly on the same boat. I doubt they would send every single Geth. Many of them were left behind to help rebuild.
Ships still have FTL technology, they just don't have the mass relays. This is important to note, because while they can't travel massive distances due to the inefficiencies of their fuel, they potentially can manage it in a few decades due to the fact that they already have the technology, and they now have a reason to develop it further (the mass relays before were a reason not to spend the time and energy to develop the tech, it simply wasn't needed). I wouldn't put it past the races to get back to their homes and develop an intra-galactic community again in less than 100 years, simply due to the fact that the technology to do it already exists, it just has to be refined. Given how a lot of them are now stuck near Sol, they all have a lot of motivation to figure it out. Hell, the Protheans figured out how to build Mass Relays (the conduit from ME1), so it can't be that much of a stretch to imagine all of the races figuring it out with the motivation they now have.
Question is how much infrastructure is left. The citadel gone, their homeworlds destroyed. Sure they could most likely figure out how to make mass relay technology in given time, but there would most likely be alot of political aftermath which is going to be hard to deal with.
On the other side, why is it they insist on saving earth? In the end they say the reapers pulled back to earth with pretty much everything. Why dont they just instead destroy the sol relay(Like with the alpha relay) which would cause it to go supernova and just destroy all the reapers instead
On March 14 2012 07:23 Duravi wrote:
On March 14 2012 07:19 Firebolt145 wrote: Atm I'm playing adept and I've completely ignored any weapon/armor upgrades. Probably not a good idea. :/
Really doesn't make much of a difference (I assume you are talking about the actual upgrades and not the attachments).
Did anyone else think that asian ninja guy, KL or w/e, was just poorly done? I slapped his shit very easily on insanity every time we fought, then plot armor would carry him to the next scene. I never got his motivation or why he hates shephard, or what on earth made him think he could fight me and my squad, who at this point in the series are insanely powerful and legendary.
He's a character from the books, along with Grayson and Khalee Sanders, and is pretty much just The Illusive Man's personal assassin. Anderson gives a brief explanation in the game, but yeah, at one point Kai Leng got his legs shot out badly by Anderson and had them rebuilt by TIM with reaper tech, and he's supposed to be one badass motherfucker at this point. Depending on your squad and your class he can be easy or hard as hell to beat in each fight on insanity, he was easy as fuck with my adept but I had a really hard time with him on insanity in the last fight as a sentinel, chose a bad squad group for that fight. Dammit EDI. When you have a whole IP like Mass Effect that isn't just games but also includes books etc., it's not that unusual for the game developers to add in elements from the books into the games, so long as they do at least a decent job explaining the character. Kai Leng's story pretty much is exactly how it's described in ME3. I think the character itself is kind of cheesy, but he was created by Drew Karpyshyn, not Casey Hudson or the Bioware team, so it's hard to blame them for that. To be fair, I thought the idea of having an antagonist throughout the game as a foil to shepard was kind of cool, just not the best executed it could have been. Plus, you can't really argue that his move-set wasn't badass: the guy literally fades in and out of existence over short distances.
Kai Leng was such a joke. The Illusive Man always felt like a much bigger threat than that guy. If they wanted to make an effective badass foil to Shepard they should have given him his own motivations and development. All I got is that he was Cerberus toady #483927 that just happened to luck himself out of a bullet to the head a couple times. There are very few instances throughout all 3 games where an enemy gets magic plot armor and "wins." Kai Leng does it at least twice. Such a dumb character. So poorly written.
He was a shitty character yes (and utterly useless), but I think the real issue is how Shepard interacted with him. After the battle on the Asari homeworld Shepard turned emo as hell and was all "I can't believe he beat me...".
The fuck? He didn't even beat Shepard. Massive plot armour aside, the only reason he won the confrontation on the Asari homeworld is because a fucken ship flew inside and shot rockets at you. It had nothing to do with the weak ass ninja-wannabe who essentially just jumped around until you shot him enough times.
I think they just ran out of ideas though. I mean having a nemesis character was a good idea. But the illusive man fit the role better, however the issue there is that the illusive man never fights directly, so he can't be used. I think they should have had an old comrade of Shepard defect to Cerberus, get an upgrade, and have that be his nemesis. A smart nemesis...one who actually split him from his team before fighting...so it would actually be believable...
Speaking of which, did anyone else find Udina's betrayal really random? I mean yes, from the way he acted you could always tell he was a dick, but to sell everyone out to Cerberus? It seemed like one of those things that was so predictable you never thought it would be done. I was almost certain that, from the way the Salarian Council member was acting, he was the one who betrayed everyone.
The Quarians and Geth are really the only two factions who would have happy endings, seeing as most of their citizens were left alone by the Reapers, and they have an untouched world to colonize now. Everyone else has been reduced to shadows of their former selves, and all have homeworlds that need to be completely rebuilt. Maybe the Krogans have a mildly good end too, since their genophage may be cured depending on how you played, and their world was a shit-hole to begin with.
Either way, even if things had gone as planned, I wouldn't call that kind of ending happy.
I wouldnt say, Quarians and Geth got a happy end. The FTL isnt possible anymore. The Quarians and Geth have now a homeworld, without a chance to reach it. Ever.
It's not as though the Quarians brought every single ship to the final battle...
Most of the flotilla consisted of non-combat ships, which would have been left on their home planet. Even if they did take every single ship, it's not as though they would need to take all their civilians with them as well. Geth are roughly on the same boat. I doubt they would send every single Geth. Many of them were left behind to help rebuild.
Ships still have FTL technology, they just don't have the mass relays. This is important to note, because while they can't travel massive distances due to the inefficiencies of their fuel, they potentially can manage it in a few decades due to the fact that they already have the technology, and they now have a reason to develop it further (the mass relays before were a reason not to spend the time and energy to develop the tech, it simply wasn't needed). I wouldn't put it past the races to get back to their homes and develop an intra-galactic community again in less than 100 years, simply due to the fact that the technology to do it already exists, it just has to be refined. Given how a lot of them are now stuck near Sol, they all have a lot of motivation to figure it out. Hell, the Protheans figured out how to build Mass Relays (the conduit from ME1), so it can't be that much of a stretch to imagine all of the races figuring it out with the motivation they now have.
Question is how much infrastructure is left. The citadel gone, their homeworlds destroyed. Sure they could most likely figure out how to make mass relay technology in given time, but there would most likely be alot of political aftermath which is going to be hard to deal with.
On the other side, why is it they insist on saving earth? In the end they say the reapers pulled back to earth with pretty much everything. Why dont they just instead destroy the sol relay(Like with the alpha relay) which would cause it to go supernova and just destroy all the reapers instead
On March 14 2012 07:23 Duravi wrote:
On March 14 2012 07:19 Firebolt145 wrote: Atm I'm playing adept and I've completely ignored any weapon/armor upgrades. Probably not a good idea. :/
Really doesn't make much of a difference (I assume you are talking about the actual upgrades and not the attachments).
Did anyone else think that asian ninja guy, KL or w/e, was just poorly done? I slapped his shit very easily on insanity every time we fought, then plot armor would carry him to the next scene. I never got his motivation or why he hates shephard, or what on earth made him think he could fight me and my squad, who at this point in the series are insanely powerful and legendary.
He's a character from the books, along with Grayson and Khalee Sanders, and is pretty much just The Illusive Man's personal assassin. Anderson gives a brief explanation in the game, but yeah, at one point Kai Leng got his legs shot out badly by Anderson and had them rebuilt by TIM with reaper tech, and he's supposed to be one badass motherfucker at this point. Depending on your squad and your class he can be easy or hard as hell to beat in each fight on insanity, he was easy as fuck with my adept but I had a really hard time with him on insanity in the last fight as a sentinel, chose a bad squad group for that fight. Dammit EDI. When you have a whole IP like Mass Effect that isn't just games but also includes books etc., it's not that unusual for the game developers to add in elements from the books into the games, so long as they do at least a decent job explaining the character. Kai Leng's story pretty much is exactly how it's described in ME3. I think the character itself is kind of cheesy, but he was created by Drew Karpyshyn, not Casey Hudson or the Bioware team, so it's hard to blame them for that. To be fair, I thought the idea of having an antagonist throughout the game as a foil to shepard was kind of cool, just not the best executed it could have been. Plus, you can't really argue that his move-set wasn't badass: the guy literally fades in and out of existence over short distances.
Kai Leng was such a joke. The Illusive Man always felt like a much bigger threat than that guy. If they wanted to make an effective badass foil to Shepard they should have given him his own motivations and development. All I got is that he was Cerberus toady #483927 that just happened to luck himself out of a bullet to the head a couple times. There are very few instances throughout all 3 games where an enemy gets magic plot armor and "wins." Kai Leng does it at least twice. Such a dumb character. So poorly written.
He was a shitty character yes (and utterly useless), but I think the real issue is how Shepard interacted with him. After the battle on the Asari homeworld Shepard turned emo as hell and was all "I can't believe he beat me...".
The fuck? He didn't even beat Shepard. Massive plot armour aside, the only reason he won the confrontation on the Asari homeworld is because a fucken ship flew inside and shot rockets at you. It had nothing to do with the weak ass ninja-wannabe who essentially just jumped around until you shot him enough times.
I think they just ran out of ideas though. I mean having a nemesis character was a good idea. But the illusive man fit the role better, however the issue there is that the illusive man never fights directly, so he can't be used. I think they should have had an old comrade of Shepard defect to Cerberus, get an upgrade, and have that be his nemesis. A smart nemesis...one who actually split him from his team before fighting...so it would actually be believable...
Speaking of which, did anyone else find Udina's betrayal really random? I mean yes, from the way he acted you could always tell he was a dick, but to sell everyone out to Cerberus? It seemed like one of those things that was so predictable you never thought it would be done. I was almost certain that, from the way the Salarian Council member was acting, he was the one who betrayed everyone.
Shepard wasn't upset about losing to Kai Leng, Shepard was upset about being beaten in that mission by Cerberus. That said, since Leng was in charge of the Cerberus forces there, it's easy to say Leng beat Shepard there, not that it means Leng outfought him, but Leng won Shepard lost (Gunship is cheating but it's still winning). He also clearly out-thought Shepard, going in to kill the scientists then leaving to hide while Shepard uncovered the Prothean VI and activated it so he could go in and steal it, when it wouldn't uncover itself in the first place without a Prothean (or Prothean equivalent in the case of Shepard). And honestly, the gunship is effectively just a really big, powerful combat drone with a pilot, it's essentially just a weapon. You had two comrades in arms with you too.
I think they should've used Ashley or Kaiden (depending on who died). They'd do the same as with Shepard, reconstruct then, indocrinate them, then send the to jeopardize Shepard. Not only Ashley/Kaiden could've been much more capable, but they would've caused Shepard a trauma too because he would have to kill them again, and this time with his own hands.
I think they should've used Ashley or Kaiden (depending on who died). They'd do the same as with Shepard, reconstruct then, indocrinate them, then send the to jeopardize Shepard. Not only Ashley/Kaiden could've been much more capable, but they would've caused Shepard a trauma too because he would have to kill them again, and this time with his own hands.
This guy at Forbes wrote some good articles about it too. The gaming journalism industry has fallen so far that you basically need to look for sources that aren't in bed with the developers to get an honest opinion. I doubt most of these idiots complaining that fans feel entitled to a happy ending even played the game, the ending was just bad, it had nothing to do with sad or happy.
That video pretty much covers everything I hate about the endings. He does fail to mention these though: + Show Spoiler +
Your two squadmates suddenly abandoning you right before you make a run for the beam. I doubt this was intentional, and is probably just a result of bad writing. The whole 'synthetics & organics will always destroy each other' bullshit that turns out to be the reasoning behind the reapers. HUH?
On March 14 2012 12:12 Telcontar wrote: That video pretty much covers everything I hate about the endings. He does fail to mention these though: + Show Spoiler +
Your two squadmates suddenly abandoning you right before you make a run for the beam. I doubt this was intentional, and is probably just a result of bad writing. The whole 'synthetics & organics will always destroy each other' bullshit that turns out to be the reasoning behind the reapers. HUH?
I could sort of understand the synthetic vs. organic thing if the rest of the story had led you to a similar conclusion. It doesn't, at all, regardless of what choices you make. It is heavily implied through the Geth and EDI (even if you chose to kill the Geth) that they have free will and are like any other species, they just want to find their place in the galaxy. If the Geth wanted to kill organics they would have made the quarians extinct, instead they purposely let them go even after being persecuted and slaughtered by them for years. It's like the guy who wrote the ending wasn't the same guy that wrote the other 99% of the game.
On March 14 2012 12:12 Telcontar wrote: That video pretty much covers everything I hate about the endings. He does fail to mention these though: + Show Spoiler +
Your two squadmates suddenly abandoning you right before you make a run for the beam. I doubt this was intentional, and is probably just a result of bad writing. The whole 'synthetics & organics will always destroy each other' bullshit that turns out to be the reasoning behind the reapers. HUH?
I could sort of understand the synthetic vs. organic thing if the rest of the story had led you to a similar conclusion. It doesn't, at all, regardless of what choices you make. It is heavily implied through the Geth and EDI (even if you chose to kill the Geth) that they have free will and are like any other species, they just want to find their place in the galaxy. If the Geth wanted to kill organics they would have made the quarians extinct, instead they purposely let them go even after being persecuted and slaughtered by them for years. It's like the guy who wrote the ending wasn't the same guy that wrote the other 99% of the game.
Exactly. I just can't believe Bioware thought this crap would actually work.
On another note, you gotta love the fact that whether you're putting bullets into a giant tank causing an explosion, putting your hands on some fuking rods that release lightning, or jumping into a god damn beam, the energy gets released in the exact same form.
You can also see (if you're shooting the tanks) Shepard literally walking right into the explosion.
You also gotta love that Shepard, probably the best example of an idealist in that entire universe, the one who convinces races to end centuries-old conflicts, the one who creates/destroys civilizations, can barely utter 3 fucking words to this dumbass kid before essentially saying "Oh so I can only do one of these 3 things? OK sounds good"
Gotta love that after investing 5 years in the stories of these characters and literally shaping how they behave to some degree, you get no fucking resolution whatsoever on their stories, not even a god damn screenshot, hell they could've just shown them on the planet once the reapers did whatever you make them do. No all you get is Joker being a pussy flying away, and then 2 of your squad members walking out onto some retarded looking planet looking like it's just another day.
And that's all on top of the gripes in the video/article I linked
Something the video missed was that the catalyst was basically set that Creator and Creation (synthetic and organic) couldn't live in peace and harmony . . . but I guess no one told the Geth and the Quarians.
That video covers a lot of other stuff that was wrong as well. For me the biggest disappointment was that in a game where I was making the best decisions I could for my Shepard from Day 1 led me to a point where I basically couldn't change his fate. Might as well have been just another first person shooter.
Something the video missed was that the catalyst was basically set that Creator and Creation (synthetic and organic) couldn't live in peace and harmony . . . but I guess no one told the Geth and the Quarians.
That video covers a lot of other stuff that was wrong as well. For me the biggest disappointment was that in a game where I was making the best decisions I could for my Shepard from Day 1 led me to a point where I basically couldn't change his fate. Might as well have been just another first person shooter.
Not to mention this AI claims Shepard and the geth will die cause he's part synthetic. So what does that mean for the quarians? Hell any freaking machine on the entire planet? The ships? How does this energy distinguish between humans that are part machines, full-machines that are conscious, and dumb machines that have no ability to think.
Something the video missed was that the catalyst was basically set that Creator and Creation (synthetic and organic) couldn't live in peace and harmony . . . but I guess no one told the Geth and the Quarians.
That video covers a lot of other stuff that was wrong as well. For me the biggest disappointment was that in a game where I was making the best decisions I could for my Shepard from Day 1 led me to a point where I basically couldn't change his fate. Might as well have been just another first person shooter.
Not to mention this AI claims Shepard and the geth will die cause he's part synthetic. So what does that mean for the quarians? Hell any freaking machine on the entire planet? The ships? How does this energy distinguish between humans that are part machines, full-machines that are conscious, and dumb machines that have no ability to think.
Exactly, I was gutted when I heard that because I had a relationship with Miranda (which was also a huge disappointment) and immediately thought about all her "upgrades" as well.
On March 14 2012 12:29 ZoW wrote: i liked the ending. *puts on flame shield*
Then you would be the very first person I know of who did. Just out of curiosity, what exactly did you like about it?
just personal preference for the most part i guess. i just like how concise and conclusive it was even though it was pretty abrupt and could have been slightly executed better, barring if all the interpretation/conspiracy theories are true or any sequel/dlc releases that would alter it.
i do perfectly understand why people are mad about it though lol
After playing through the ending sequence multiple times and replaying the game, I have come to the conclusion that the ending isn't really an ending at all, it is a farce. Just the fact that a game made me sit and actually think about everything I was seeing, questioning if it was real or illusion, and actively challenging me to look further into the series as a whole and the themes behind it. To me, it is pretty obvious what we see in the ending is not the finale of the series, it is a cliffhanger. You get shot by a laser beam, have a 20 minute long hazy dream-like state full of confusing and unexplained events, then you wake up in a pile of rubble in London. That isn't an ending at all, which is why I can understand the anger from people who wanted total closure. Instead, it is a crafted segue designed to challenge your perception and critical thinking. Everything from the small oddities that make it seem like a dream to how the 3 choices are actually presented really scream that something is not right. It is suspenseful to think about. What is really going on? Why am I still alive in a pile of rubble? What actually happened to me? What actually happened to the reapers? I just finished playing an amazing game and it already has me excited for what is to come! All these questions that will be answered, I can't wait.
But the thing i loved most about the ending was that I almost thought that combining biological life and synthetic life as one was the best course of action. I almost believed that what I was hearing from the catalyst and what I was seeing through Sheppard's eyes was true. I was so close, I fought about it with myself for so long. It said if I destroyed the reapers, I would also be destroying all synthetic life. I could also die because of my implants. It told me history would repeat itself. The reapers would be gone for now but a new 'reaper' would emerge given time. But wait, for the other two options, it was asking me to sacrifice myself and trust that it was telling the truth. It told me that controlling the reapers would save the galaxy and prevent anything horrible from ever happening again. What have I been fighting for this entire series? What did I decide from day one on Eden Prime? These motherfuckers are out to destroy all life at any cost. They destroy civilizations from the inside out, then harvest them for material. I didn't spend 5 fucking years of my life fighting reapers just so I could control them. I didn't spend countless hours supporting my crew and being an outstanding commander just so I can make man and machine one. I did all that to fucking destroy those godless reapers who want nothing more than to destroy me. So I did. I blew them up. What would happen when I did that? I don't know. The relays were reaper tech, would they get destroyed? How about the citadel? What would happen to my ship? My crew? The one I love? What would people think of me and the decisions I made? And then I woke up in a pile of rubble in the streets of London. Holy fuck. This isn't over yet. But now I know where I stand. I can't settle for less than saving the galaxy by destroying the reapers. No fear, no quitting, no compromise.
Ultimately, people can tell me I am crazy to believe that Bioware crafted an ending like this. That it is all just shoddy hack-job writing and EA was just pushing for a deadline. I don't care. What I saw playing this game and what I felt being Sheppard is one of the most powerful experiences I have ever had with any form of media. For me, I needed this ending to really solidify where I stood. There are so many decision in this game, it is easy to get overwhelmed. Do I unite the Geth with the Quarians or destroy them? Do I cure the genophage and tell the Krogan of the Salarian plan to trick them, or do I appease the Salarians and stop any hope of the Krogan ever redeeming themselves as a species. These were pretty fucking heavy decisions and there were a number of them. The thing is, that final decision, do I destroy the reapers whatever it takes, or do I compromise, is the most important one. This is why I needed the game to pseudo-end on this note. I needed time to make this decision. I needed to realize it was the most important one.
I know this isn't the very end of Sheppards story, it is close but there is a little bit more to tell. And holy shit I cannot wait.
On March 14 2012 15:40 Hoban wrote: I really liked the ending. This is why. + Show Spoiler +
After playing through the ending sequence multiple times and replaying the game, I have come to the conclusion that the ending isn't really an ending at all, it is a farce. Just the fact that a game made me sit and actually think about everything I was seeing, questioning if it was real or illusion, and actively challenging me to look further into the series as a whole and the themes behind it. To me, it is pretty obvious what we see in the ending is not the finale of the series, it is a cliffhanger. You get shot by a laser beam, have a 20 minute long hazy dream-like state full of confusing and unexplained events, then you wake up in a pile of rubble in London. That isn't an ending at all, which is why I can understand the anger from people who wanted total closure. Instead, it is a crafted segue designed to challenge your perception and critical thinking. Everything from the small oddities that make it seem like a dream to how the 3 choices are actually presented really scream that something is not right. It is suspenseful to think about. What is really going on? Why am I still alive in a pile of rubble? What actually happened to me? What actually happened to the reapers? I just finished playing an amazing game and it already has me excited for what is to come! All these questions that will be answered, I can't wait.
But the thing i loved most about the ending was that I almost thought that combining biological life and synthetic life as one was the best course of action. I almost believed that what I was hearing from the catalyst and what I was seeing through Sheppard's eyes was true. I was so close, I fought about it with myself for so long. It said if I destroyed the reapers, I would also be destroying all synthetic life. I could also die because of my implants. It told me history would repeat itself. The reapers would be gone for now but a new 'reaper' would emerge given time. But wait, for the other two options, it was asking me to sacrifice myself and trust that it was telling the truth. It told me that controlling the reapers would save the galaxy and prevent anything horrible from ever happening again. What have I been fighting for this entire series? What did I decide from day one on Eden Prime? These motherfuckers are out to destroy all life at any cost. They destroy civilizations from the inside out, then harvest them for material. I didn't spend 5 fucking years of my life fighting reapers just so I could control them. I didn't spend countless hours supporting my crew and being an outstanding commander just so I can make man and machine one. I did all that to fucking destroy those godless reapers who want nothing more than to destroy me. So I did. I blew them up. What would happen when I did that? I don't know. The relays were reaper tech, would they get destroyed? How about the citadel? What would happen to my ship? My crew? The one I love? What would people think of me and the decisions I made? And then I woke up in a pile of rubble in the streets of London. Holy fuck. This isn't over yet. But now I know where I stand. I can't settle for less than saving the galaxy by destroying the reapers. No fear, no quitting, no compromise.
Ultimately, people can tell me I am crazy to believe that Bioware crafted an ending like this. That it is all just shoddy hack-job writing and EA was just pushing for a deadline. I don't care. What I saw playing this game and what I felt being Sheppard is one of the most powerful experiences I have ever had with any form of media. For me, I needed this ending to really solidify where I stood. There are so many decision in this game, it is easy to get overwhelmed. Do I unite the Geth with the Quarians or destroy them? Do I cure the genophage and tell the Krogan of the Salarian plan to trick them, or do I appease the Salarians and stop any hope of the Krogan ever redeeming themselves as a species. These were pretty fucking heavy decisions and there were a number of them. The thing is, that final decision, do I destroy the reapers whatever it takes, or do I compromise, is the most important one. This is why I needed the game to pseudo-end on this note. I needed time to make this decision. I needed to realize it was the most important one.
I know this isn't the very end of Sheppards story, it is close but there is a little bit more to tell. And holy shit I cannot wait.
If that's true what's your opinion on bioware/ea forcing you to buy dlcs or having spent 60$ for half a game?
EPT
