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On March 28 2011 10:21 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 09:00 nitdkim wrote:On March 28 2011 08:49 Fishball wrote:On March 28 2011 02:03 Patriot.dlk wrote:On March 27 2011 20:29 Fishball wrote:
I haven't played a Total War game prior to Shogun 2.
I just beat the game on easy last night, which was challenging enough for a first timer. Playing on normal this time and things are a lot smoother.
However, I'm realizing that I always get rolf-stomped if I rolf-stomped everyone too quickly. What I mean by that is if I just mass up a few armies, and takeover everything as quickly as possible up till realm divide, then everyone just declares war on me and I'm done for, as my legion of Ashigarus won't be able to hold off the endless waves of assaults. Make sure to get as many generals as possible, having armies with no general fight and win can lead the possibility to promote a general. Make sure to have only one general in each army, even if that general walks right next to another force. This way they all level up. It's crucial to get fast moment speed so you are flexible. I have the same experience with everyone attacking me so I tried getting kyoto fast and that helped out. Everyone declared war on me but at least I had the + things from being shogun to help me out Ah, I do have generals though. To be more specific, I had 4 armies marching around, and my generals were all 4-6 stars. I was playing Date, short campaign on normal. Besides Kyoto and Miyagi, I held every province that I needed to win, and it was only 1663. The only reason I didn't take Miyagi yet, was because it belonged to be my one and only ally, and I was being nice... I guess I could have taken Kyoto if I focus all of my armies on it, but the main issue is just that my Ashigaru armies die quicker than I can replenish them when everyone starts to attack me, as my main training hubs are usually quite some distant away due to my extremely fast expansion. Basically the other clans would start invading me from multiple locations and I just cant really stop them due to the issues mentioned above. I guess the only way to do it is just to take Miyagi early, then hold just enough before realm divide, macro out some more and take Kyoto in a flash. Should still be able to do it before 1570 I think. You have to hold kyoto for 1 year to be claimed the New Shogun. So you'll have to do it before 1569 or something. Yeah I know. Short campaign is before 1580, long is 1600. I was just listing the year as an indicator to how fast I'm rushing with those Ashigarus.
Defender's advantage is pretty huge in this game. Try to ambush the invading armies and engage them at your castles. You'll be much more cost effective.
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It feels crazy that my first big post in a long time is about something unrelated to SC2... but here goes:
How are you guys finding the Realm Divide mechanic? It's essentially the Mongol/Timurid-eque rubber-banding mechanic for Shogun 2.
Gaining "legendary" clan status and/or launching a bid for the shogunate by sieging Kyoto is more or less diplomatic suicide: you get a -5 diplomacy penalty which eventually snowballs into a permanent, irreversible -200 score. It makes retaining your allies impossible, and the AI stops fighting to begin a concerted effort to just smash your face in.
I understand why it was implemented because without it the late game'd be a giant, easy walkover, especially since you don't have to traverse much territory to capture a new castle. But Oda Nobunaga certainly didn't pave the way to a united Japan alone; he had to exercise shrewd diplomacy and political maneuvering. Suffice it to say that this mechanic proves vexing for those who've traditionally played Total War games this way.
THIS MOD HERE tweaks the Realm Divide mechanic as follows:
+ Show Spoiler +Realm Divide Mod v1.0
This mod changes the realm divide event significantly. Instead of a low initial diplomacy hit which adds up every turn by -5 points until you get a -200 penalty, you get a moderate initial hit (around -55 on normal difficulty) which gets reduced every turn by -4 points. That way allies and factions you have good relations with may stay on your side and diplomacy doesn't become impossible after the realm divide event.
The mod also contains some minor diplomatic adjustments: financial gifts and giving away you children as hostages both have longer lasting diplomatic effects (reduction of the effects each turn is now -4 instead of -5).
I'm playing a fresh game with this mod and my Date homeboys are sticking with me 40 turns after the Realm Divide kicked in, and we're up against the Hattori, Chikosabe, and the rest of the West. The game's escalated to a very epic East vs West civil war, and I'm enjoying it.
I recommend you guys give it a try! Seems solid and all you gotta do is unzip one file to the app folder! 
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On March 30 2011 23:57 dementus wrote:It feels crazy that my first big post in a long time is about something unrelated to SC2... but here goes: How are you guys finding the Realm Divide mechanic? It's essentially the Mongol/Timurid-eque rubber-banding mechanic for Shogun 2. Gaining "legendary" clan status and/or launching a bid for the shogunate by sieging Kyoto is more or less diplomatic suicide: you get a -5 diplomacy penalty which eventually snowballs into a permanent, irreversible -200 score. It makes retaining your allies impossible, and the AI stops fighting to begin a concerted effort to just smash your face in. I understand why it was implemented because without it the late game'd be a giant, easy walkover, especially since you don't have to traverse much territory to capture a new castle. But Oda Nobunaga certainly didn't pave the way to a united Japan alone; he had to exercise shrewd diplomacy and political maneuvering. Suffice it to say that this mechanic proves vexing for those who've traditionally played Total War games this way. THIS MOD HERE tweaks the Realm Divide mechanic as follows: + Show Spoiler +Realm Divide Mod v1.0
This mod changes the realm divide event significantly. Instead of a low initial diplomacy hit which adds up every turn by -5 points until you get a -200 penalty, you get a moderate initial hit (around -55 on normal difficulty) which gets reduced every turn by -4 points. That way allies and factions you have good relations with may stay on your side and diplomacy doesn't become impossible after the realm divide event.
The mod also contains some minor diplomatic adjustments: financial gifts and giving away you children as hostages both have longer lasting diplomatic effects (reduction of the effects each turn is now -4 instead of -5). I'm playing a fresh game with this mod and my Date homeboys are sticking with me 40 turns after the Realm Divide kicked in, and we're up against the Hattori, Chikosabe, and the rest of the West. The game's escalated to a very epic East vs West civil war, and I'm enjoying it. I recommend you guys give it a try! Seems solid and all you gotta do is unzip one file to the app folder!
Actually I think Oda Nobunaga did got ganged by almost half of Japan after he visited Kyoto and burn the biggest Buddhist shrine (a mountain) into ashes. He also killed every single woman and children there.
Basically only Tokugawa stick with him from the beginning to the end, he encountered countless betrayals in his life, up until the very end.
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Any tips on avoiding seppuku and the following diplomatic hits if you reject suiciding your general.
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lol about seppuku and generals... my last 4 5 start generals have all had to seppuku since they will just rebel if you leave em.... kinda lame tho everytime i get a sick general i make him kill himself.
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On March 30 2011 23:57 dementus wrote:It feels crazy that my first big post in a long time is about something unrelated to SC2... but here goes: How are you guys finding the Realm Divide mechanic? It's essentially the Mongol/Timurid-eque rubber-banding mechanic for Shogun 2. Gaining "legendary" clan status and/or launching a bid for the shogunate by sieging Kyoto is more or less diplomatic suicide: you get a -5 diplomacy penalty which eventually snowballs into a permanent, irreversible -200 score. It makes retaining your allies impossible, and the AI stops fighting to begin a concerted effort to just smash your face in. I understand why it was implemented because without it the late game'd be a giant, easy walkover, especially since you don't have to traverse much territory to capture a new castle. But Oda Nobunaga certainly didn't pave the way to a united Japan alone; he had to exercise shrewd diplomacy and political maneuvering. Suffice it to say that this mechanic proves vexing for those who've traditionally played Total War games this way. THIS MOD HERE tweaks the Realm Divide mechanic as follows: + Show Spoiler +Realm Divide Mod v1.0
This mod changes the realm divide event significantly. Instead of a low initial diplomacy hit which adds up every turn by -5 points until you get a -200 penalty, you get a moderate initial hit (around -55 on normal difficulty) which gets reduced every turn by -4 points. That way allies and factions you have good relations with may stay on your side and diplomacy doesn't become impossible after the realm divide event.
The mod also contains some minor diplomatic adjustments: financial gifts and giving away you children as hostages both have longer lasting diplomatic effects (reduction of the effects each turn is now -4 instead of -5). I'm playing a fresh game with this mod and my Date homeboys are sticking with me 40 turns after the Realm Divide kicked in, and we're up against the Hattori, Chikosabe, and the rest of the West. The game's escalated to a very epic East vs West civil war, and I'm enjoying it. I recommend you guys give it a try! Seems solid and all you gotta do is unzip one file to the app folder!
You gotta be be really active using marriages to secure your allies. I managed to have three nations by my side for a long time after realm divide.
Eventually one of them backfired on one of my allies for some reason but overall I kept all three until the end. I had trade with them from start and did at least one marriage with all of them. Getting some early daughters is very random though and to rely on them getting some seems fragile.
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Until I found that mod I hadn't really bothered with diplomacy cause I knew realm divide was coming... basically didn't bother making friends with anyone, just built up at their borders and attacked everyone in my way.
Anyway, playing first campaign as Date on normal, early game I just held on to like 3 provinces and soon was generating a ton of income, used that to create 2 full stack armies of 50/50 samurai to peasant workers, branched both armies so one stack is moving through the north, the other moving through the south. I got around 10 provinces now, which is pretty much all of Eastern Japan.
edit- also, to be clear. I put the .pack file in the "data" folder right? cause the linked instructions call it the "data directory" which doesn't exist...computer noob lol.
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On March 28 2011 02:05 Match wrote:
The only problem I have with Shogun 2 is the AI cheating. It's really, really, really annoying.
what difficulty does the AI start cheating at?
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Canada5565 Posts
How is everyone doing? I'm taking it slow - only have 4 provinces right now on 'hard'. Too much macro.
I'm still trying to figure out the most efficient way to defend. Right now I take my whole army outside of the fort and crush them head on - when I'm crammed inside they tear me apart with arrows throughout the battle.
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how long is the typical wait for online battles? i've hit find match the past 2 days and have had to wait over 5 minutes with no luck..
on the bright side, the TL.net clan is still tops by a huge margin 
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On April 01 2011 13:33 fush wrote:how long is the typical wait for online battles? i've hit find match the past 2 days and have had to wait over 5 minutes with no luck.. on the bright side, the TL.net clan is still tops by a huge margin
The multiplayer is horrendously buggy. Even for CA, it's truly shocking just how terrible their online service is thus far in terms of quality, and I never expect much from CA given their abysmal track record.
The actual online gameplay is entertaining and challenging (with good players ofc), with perhaps too much emphasis on persistent units, but it's absolutely ludicrous how difficult it is to simply get a game. Half of the 2v2s my clanmates and I try to play end up loading into sea battles (???) on a 3v3 map where 3 players are one on team or simply won't load at all, or you get a game where the countdown simply won't start even though everyone's armies are valid T_T
This game will be vastly more entertaining when they patch the online bugs out  the actual gameplay is very nice, especially team games.
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On April 01 2011 13:09 Xxio wrote:
How is everyone doing? I'm taking it slow - only have 4 provinces right now on 'hard'. Too much macro.
I'm still trying to figure out the most efficient way to defend. Right now I take my whole army outside of the fort and crush them head on - when I'm crammed inside they tear me apart with arrows throughout the battle.
I'm the complete opposite. I love when they attack me cause the siege AI is so retarded.
Case in point, I'm playing as the Date, the Uesegi launch a siege on my fortress with 1.5 full stacks (one attacking, the other half reinforcing. About 75% of his force are archers. I have one full set of stacks in my fortress, the city is upgraded enough that there are two "tiers" to the fortress. I ignore the sides that are completely archers and their 2 generals (cavalry).
The AI inevitably charges with its melee units on the walls. The game is set up as such so that the units can only enter a few at a time, so my units on the walls can spear and kill them as they set up while my archers hit them while they climb the wall. Most of the time they can make it up, but since they're against the walls 2-3 units can surround them and because of the morale system they'll rout and flee the castle. By this time they've actually managed to whittle down most of my force due to archers/more melee units, so I move to the "top" tier of my castle and wait. The AI does the "smart" thing and doesn't try to enter with archer units (weak melee) and proceed to fire into the castle, so I move my shit barely out of range. Archer units suck at killing mass numbers of units so I can just wait it out until they run out of ammo, occasionally a few units will try to climb the walls, but again, arrows are weak so I send out a few units to attack them. They rout because climbing walls with spearmen hitting you as soon as you get up is never good for morale, they all run out of arrows.
Here's the kicker: The AI will not move into your castle with just cavalry/archers. At this point in the battle I have like 200 men left, he has around 800. He could just have his archers engage in melee combat and kill me, but the siege AI is broken and everyone will just sit there even though they have no arrows left. Time runs out and I win.
With smaller siege battles, the same principles apply even if you have a chance of winning. Station melee units at the walls, ignore the archers, have your archers shoot the units climbing the walls. Once archers are left, have your melee units attack them. If you can't engage and win, wait for them to try and climb the walls and kill them. It's actually extremely easy.
As for my SP scenario, as the Date I've conguered about 25% of Japan. I'm on normal so people are stupid, I have around 4 ninjas assassinating the hell out of all the generals and shit. A couple of nations have gotten desperate so they sent their daimyo, heir, and 2 generals along with a full stack to attack my fortresses, these lead to the battles described above. I've caputured fortresses that are all the unit production buildings, so my choice of focusing on economic buildings in the beginning is paying off since I never had to build the high level samurai dojos or whatnot. I've made an ally in the Tokugawa, who like me for some reason even though I'm at war with literally all of Eastern and Central Japan; they're large enough that they provide a huge buffer from West Japan, it's basically me vs the Uesegi and their weak allies. Going to explore the area right next to Kyoto and buy off the Western adjacent province- I rushed the farm techs so all my provincial populations are large and I'm making 4k+ mostly from tax revenue (everyone hates me so I'm only trading with the Tokugawa), so I'm planning on just buying them off by marrying my one remaining single daughter as well as giving them large amounts of money. I can cross the Tokugawa lands, hit that province, and rush Kyoto with my 2 stack 5 star generals. Hopefully that will go well.
...damn that was long.
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On March 31 2011 11:33 DarkwindHK wrote:
Basically only Tokugawa stick with him from the beginning to the end, he encountered countless betrayals in his life, up until the very end.
He definitely did not endear himself to the other daimyos but a handful stayed loyal to him for a substantial period of time; Date Masamune comes to mind. But yeah, you're definitely right!
On April 01 2011 03:14 Patriot.dlk wrote:
You gotta be be really active using marriages to secure your allies. I managed to have three nations by my side for a long time after realm divide.
I am, actively used marriage alliances in M2 too! My diplomatic strategy kinda revolves around "daughter poaching"; I feel like a creeper. In any case, the situation deteriorates at such a pace that you'd have to start throwing gold to maintain a few solid relationships with allies/vassals. I guess that's fine with clans on the Western front like Shimazu since they have many trade nodes to dominate, but I'm having problems applying that strategy as the other clans.
On April 01 2011 12:50 DystopiaX wrote:
I put the .pack file in the "data" folder right? cause the linked instructions call it the "data directory" which doesn't exist...computer noob lol.
Yeap it works on that directory!
I think after playing through 6 grand campaigns (3 with the mod) I'm still not sure what to make of it. Neither situation seems satisfactory, but it's definitely a nice set of training wheels for novice players trying their first grand campaign.
How is everyone finding the Black Ship? That mofo is so insanely fast that I've become weak and resorted to auto-resolves when wanting to capture it  I know, I know...
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I played as Chosokabe and their samurai archers made siege battles easy for the most part. I just position them around the castle, out of range of the arrow towers, and proceed to kill all the enemy units inside the castle. The +50% to ammo tech is really powerful. The experience upgrades are also a bit more useful for archer units since they don't get as many casualties as melee units.
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Is this game worth downloading/buying? From the posts I've read so far it seems like a deep game, and Japan's ''medieval'' culture always interested me..
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On April 05 2011 04:37 OutlaW- wrote:
Is this game worth downloading/buying? From the posts I've read so far it seems like a deep game, and Japan's ''medieval'' culture always interested me..
Yes it is. The main campaign is fun to play at least once. The factions only have minor differences, the largest being their starting location.
The combat against ai isn't that challenging. Even on legendary difficulty where the ai gets massive bonuses in combat you can usually win by playing better than the ai.
Oh, don't get cavalry, at most one unit to chase down enemies after the battle. They are so bad that sword cavalry lose against sword ashigaru in most cases. Only thing they can be used for is killing archers/siege weapons (don't get siege weapons either [they have too little ammunition for their cost], unless you simply want to have fun).
Multiplayer is bugged. Out of ~50 tries I've played ~10 games.
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Liking the game so far only thing I don't like is how calvary seems to suck balls in this game while archers are too strong. I liked using more of a calvary/meele rome in mix which is pretty much pathetically bad for this lawl. If they made a game with rome battles/unit mix and this game's overworld improvements it would be perfect
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are cav really that bad? from my games i've generally found that the good ol' cav advantage + hammer and anvil strikes still work wonders against ashigaru. on the other hand, having a lot more trouble routing veteran archers with the same cav force which seems to be a bit frustrating. i think archers are definitely a bit too effective because of the general lack of shields and godly aim, especially when you have an opponent putting down a lot of samurai archers that are impossible to rout even with upgraded cav.
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Yea before you could flank around and crush archers pretty easily then come around and flank which was kind of the whole point of calvary =\. Now they take forever to kill the higher level archers...by the time ur done with them the damage is already done. Money better spent on more samurai/archers of ur own -_-
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Archers actually suck at melee. Cavalry in the game just aren't strong enough to take advantage of it. Katana cavalry are too fragile to take on the heavy cav role. Try hitting an engaged melee samurai unit in the back, even katana samurai, who have no bonuses against cav. It still takes a while to rout them and the cav sustains a significant amount of casualties.
That said, katana cavalry can still be quite decent at taking out archers sometimes. And yari cavalry is awesome for chasing down routers and headhunting generals.
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EPT
