• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:53
CET 20:53
KST 04:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)38
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey!
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Bleak Future After Failed ProGaming Career [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1785 users

Magic: The Gathering - Page 592

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 590 591 592 593 594 665 Next
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
January 22 2015 21:43 GMT
#11821
i got sealed (top 8 draft) event on sunday. They're splitting a case between the top 8
BallinWitStalin
Profile Joined July 2008
1177 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-23 01:52:19
January 23 2015 01:51 GMT
#11822
On January 22 2015 07:57 MoonBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2015 07:08 Ghostpvp wrote:
The bigger concern I have is the Treasure Cruise ban in Legacy. I really don't understand it when Brainstorm is a thing and by far is and will continue to be the best card in Legacy. If a new card suddenly making one specific strategy very good and dominant for a while is a big deal, well do I have news for Wizards. (Remember when Griselbrand was considered Necropotence 2.0, or when True Name Nemesis was printed?)

While brainstorm is the best card in legacy (not even close). Nothing buries your opponent faster in games where both players are playing 'fair' strategies than casting multiple treasure cruise.

I would argue that TNN isn't even all that troublesome by itself in legacy. It quickly becomes dominating to other 'fair' creature when paired with SFM (All 'fair' creature strategies are inferior to SFM in legacy).

The way I see it, if you're playing a 'fair' strategy there are a lot of other things in legacy that can get you card advantage as well (Crucible giving you back Wastelands, Sylvan Library, DRS, etc.) and Treasure Cruise is just a very, very, good way of doing it. But you're still in a format with Lion's Eye Diamond, Jace the Wallet Sculptor, etc. so it just seems a bit meh to me because it's not like, Goblin Recruiter level of power.

My comparison to cards like TNN is more that it very quickly became a card that was played in a lot of decks but people have adapted and I think with time the same could have happened with Treasure Cruise with time (especially given Legacy's card pool). Maybe I'm wrong and Treasure Cruise really is busted, but the speed at which the ban was issued makes me uncomfortable. (It took longer for Skullclamp to get banned from Extended than it has Treasure Cruise to get banned for example.)

Show nested quote +
On January 22 2015 07:26 mavignon wrote:
From what I have understood it's more "Pod > every other creature deck" that is a problem to Wizards.

Sure, and I understand that reasoning. I'm more concerned with the overall direction of Modern here though. I don't think Pod leaving suddenly means other creature decks are suddenly going to become Tier 1, because there's a lot more than just Pod holding them back.

If you're playing Aggro, Affinity is still the benchmark to beat. If you're playing midrange, you need to differentiate yourself from BGx Rock (and maybe TarmoTwin?). If you're doing something gimmicky there's Boggles. Any creature deck that's going to try and replace Pod needs to do something better than what those decks do, and at least for now I can't think of any that can. If the goal of the Pod ban is to increase diversity, I can't see how it will actually get the job done since most decks are just worse versions of those ones listed above. I'm very willing to be proven wrong though (maybe there's something good in DTK!).


You guys post well thought out responses, and maybe mine is going to be a bit simplistic (maybe I'm only discussing a surface issue/symptom rather than a root-cause) but I really feel like a format is problematic when the correct choice is to often maindeck multiple copies of pyroblast/red elemental blast. When you get into situations where maindecking those cards is a legitimate strategy specifically to fight opposing treasure cruises, things have kind of gotten out of hand....
I await the reminiscent nerd chills I will get when I hear a Korean broadcaster yell "WEEAAAAVVVVVUUUHHH" while watching Dota
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
January 23 2015 16:03 GMT
#11823
On January 23 2015 10:51 BallinWitStalin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2015 07:57 MoonBear wrote:
On January 22 2015 07:08 Ghostpvp wrote:
The bigger concern I have is the Treasure Cruise ban in Legacy. I really don't understand it when Brainstorm is a thing and by far is and will continue to be the best card in Legacy. If a new card suddenly making one specific strategy very good and dominant for a while is a big deal, well do I have news for Wizards. (Remember when Griselbrand was considered Necropotence 2.0, or when True Name Nemesis was printed?)

While brainstorm is the best card in legacy (not even close). Nothing buries your opponent faster in games where both players are playing 'fair' strategies than casting multiple treasure cruise.

I would argue that TNN isn't even all that troublesome by itself in legacy. It quickly becomes dominating to other 'fair' creature when paired with SFM (All 'fair' creature strategies are inferior to SFM in legacy).

The way I see it, if you're playing a 'fair' strategy there are a lot of other things in legacy that can get you card advantage as well (Crucible giving you back Wastelands, Sylvan Library, DRS, etc.) and Treasure Cruise is just a very, very, good way of doing it. But you're still in a format with Lion's Eye Diamond, Jace the Wallet Sculptor, etc. so it just seems a bit meh to me because it's not like, Goblin Recruiter level of power.

My comparison to cards like TNN is more that it very quickly became a card that was played in a lot of decks but people have adapted and I think with time the same could have happened with Treasure Cruise with time (especially given Legacy's card pool). Maybe I'm wrong and Treasure Cruise really is busted, but the speed at which the ban was issued makes me uncomfortable. (It took longer for Skullclamp to get banned from Extended than it has Treasure Cruise to get banned for example.)

On January 22 2015 07:26 mavignon wrote:
From what I have understood it's more "Pod > every other creature deck" that is a problem to Wizards.

Sure, and I understand that reasoning. I'm more concerned with the overall direction of Modern here though. I don't think Pod leaving suddenly means other creature decks are suddenly going to become Tier 1, because there's a lot more than just Pod holding them back.

If you're playing Aggro, Affinity is still the benchmark to beat. If you're playing midrange, you need to differentiate yourself from BGx Rock (and maybe TarmoTwin?). If you're doing something gimmicky there's Boggles. Any creature deck that's going to try and replace Pod needs to do something better than what those decks do, and at least for now I can't think of any that can. If the goal of the Pod ban is to increase diversity, I can't see how it will actually get the job done since most decks are just worse versions of those ones listed above. I'm very willing to be proven wrong though (maybe there's something good in DTK!).


You guys post well thought out responses, and maybe mine is going to be a bit simplistic (maybe I'm only discussing a surface issue/symptom rather than a root-cause) but I really feel like a format is problematic when the correct choice is to often maindeck multiple copies of pyroblast/red elemental blast. When you get into situations where maindecking those cards is a legitimate strategy specifically to fight opposing treasure cruises, things have kind of gotten out of hand....


Those cards were not for treasure cruise: They were for Brainstorm.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
January 23 2015 16:41 GMT
#11824
On January 24 2015 01:03 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2015 10:51 BallinWitStalin wrote:
On January 22 2015 07:57 MoonBear wrote:
On January 22 2015 07:08 Ghostpvp wrote:
The bigger concern I have is the Treasure Cruise ban in Legacy. I really don't understand it when Brainstorm is a thing and by far is and will continue to be the best card in Legacy. If a new card suddenly making one specific strategy very good and dominant for a while is a big deal, well do I have news for Wizards. (Remember when Griselbrand was considered Necropotence 2.0, or when True Name Nemesis was printed?)

While brainstorm is the best card in legacy (not even close). Nothing buries your opponent faster in games where both players are playing 'fair' strategies than casting multiple treasure cruise.

I would argue that TNN isn't even all that troublesome by itself in legacy. It quickly becomes dominating to other 'fair' creature when paired with SFM (All 'fair' creature strategies are inferior to SFM in legacy).

The way I see it, if you're playing a 'fair' strategy there are a lot of other things in legacy that can get you card advantage as well (Crucible giving you back Wastelands, Sylvan Library, DRS, etc.) and Treasure Cruise is just a very, very, good way of doing it. But you're still in a format with Lion's Eye Diamond, Jace the Wallet Sculptor, etc. so it just seems a bit meh to me because it's not like, Goblin Recruiter level of power.

My comparison to cards like TNN is more that it very quickly became a card that was played in a lot of decks but people have adapted and I think with time the same could have happened with Treasure Cruise with time (especially given Legacy's card pool). Maybe I'm wrong and Treasure Cruise really is busted, but the speed at which the ban was issued makes me uncomfortable. (It took longer for Skullclamp to get banned from Extended than it has Treasure Cruise to get banned for example.)

On January 22 2015 07:26 mavignon wrote:
From what I have understood it's more "Pod > every other creature deck" that is a problem to Wizards.

Sure, and I understand that reasoning. I'm more concerned with the overall direction of Modern here though. I don't think Pod leaving suddenly means other creature decks are suddenly going to become Tier 1, because there's a lot more than just Pod holding them back.

If you're playing Aggro, Affinity is still the benchmark to beat. If you're playing midrange, you need to differentiate yourself from BGx Rock (and maybe TarmoTwin?). If you're doing something gimmicky there's Boggles. Any creature deck that's going to try and replace Pod needs to do something better than what those decks do, and at least for now I can't think of any that can. If the goal of the Pod ban is to increase diversity, I can't see how it will actually get the job done since most decks are just worse versions of those ones listed above. I'm very willing to be proven wrong though (maybe there's something good in DTK!).


You guys post well thought out responses, and maybe mine is going to be a bit simplistic (maybe I'm only discussing a surface issue/symptom rather than a root-cause) but I really feel like a format is problematic when the correct choice is to often maindeck multiple copies of pyroblast/red elemental blast. When you get into situations where maindecking those cards is a legitimate strategy specifically to fight opposing treasure cruises, things have kind of gotten out of hand....


Those cards were not for treasure cruise: They were for Brainstorm.


Exactly, Joe was putting them into miracles way before Cruise was a thing to combat Brainstorm, ponder, force.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
BallinWitStalin
Profile Joined July 2008
1177 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-23 18:02:46
January 23 2015 18:02 GMT
#11825
On January 24 2015 01:03 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2015 10:51 BallinWitStalin wrote:
On January 22 2015 07:57 MoonBear wrote:
On January 22 2015 07:08 Ghostpvp wrote:
The bigger concern I have is the Treasure Cruise ban in Legacy. I really don't understand it when Brainstorm is a thing and by far is and will continue to be the best card in Legacy. If a new card suddenly making one specific strategy very good and dominant for a while is a big deal, well do I have news for Wizards. (Remember when Griselbrand was considered Necropotence 2.0, or when True Name Nemesis was printed?)

While brainstorm is the best card in legacy (not even close). Nothing buries your opponent faster in games where both players are playing 'fair' strategies than casting multiple treasure cruise.

I would argue that TNN isn't even all that troublesome by itself in legacy. It quickly becomes dominating to other 'fair' creature when paired with SFM (All 'fair' creature strategies are inferior to SFM in legacy).

The way I see it, if you're playing a 'fair' strategy there are a lot of other things in legacy that can get you card advantage as well (Crucible giving you back Wastelands, Sylvan Library, DRS, etc.) and Treasure Cruise is just a very, very, good way of doing it. But you're still in a format with Lion's Eye Diamond, Jace the Wallet Sculptor, etc. so it just seems a bit meh to me because it's not like, Goblin Recruiter level of power.

My comparison to cards like TNN is more that it very quickly became a card that was played in a lot of decks but people have adapted and I think with time the same could have happened with Treasure Cruise with time (especially given Legacy's card pool). Maybe I'm wrong and Treasure Cruise really is busted, but the speed at which the ban was issued makes me uncomfortable. (It took longer for Skullclamp to get banned from Extended than it has Treasure Cruise to get banned for example.)

On January 22 2015 07:26 mavignon wrote:
From what I have understood it's more "Pod > every other creature deck" that is a problem to Wizards.

Sure, and I understand that reasoning. I'm more concerned with the overall direction of Modern here though. I don't think Pod leaving suddenly means other creature decks are suddenly going to become Tier 1, because there's a lot more than just Pod holding them back.

If you're playing Aggro, Affinity is still the benchmark to beat. If you're playing midrange, you need to differentiate yourself from BGx Rock (and maybe TarmoTwin?). If you're doing something gimmicky there's Boggles. Any creature deck that's going to try and replace Pod needs to do something better than what those decks do, and at least for now I can't think of any that can. If the goal of the Pod ban is to increase diversity, I can't see how it will actually get the job done since most decks are just worse versions of those ones listed above. I'm very willing to be proven wrong though (maybe there's something good in DTK!).


You guys post well thought out responses, and maybe mine is going to be a bit simplistic (maybe I'm only discussing a surface issue/symptom rather than a root-cause) but I really feel like a format is problematic when the correct choice is to often maindeck multiple copies of pyroblast/red elemental blast. When you get into situations where maindecking those cards is a legitimate strategy specifically to fight opposing treasure cruises, things have kind of gotten out of hand....


Those cards were not for treasure cruise: They were for Brainstorm.


Honestly I don't play legacy control a lot so I can't really gainsay what they're for in the mirrors, but the multiple copies of those cards only seemed to start happening after treasure cruise. I know a few people maindecked one prior to treasure cruise (I really don't recall multiple copies, but I didn't really start paying attention until a few months before Khans so I don't really know), but if they were for brainstorms why did they increase in popularity after TC printing? I guess blue decks got increasingly powerful and represented a greater % of the metagame, so the value of maindecking them increased, but I've seen people on streams using them to fight over TCs as well as brainstorms. Did the percentage of decks playing brainstorm actually change after the printing of TC?
I await the reminiscent nerd chills I will get when I hear a Korean broadcaster yell "WEEAAAAVVVVVUUUHHH" while watching Dota
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
January 23 2015 22:03 GMT
#11826
Even though I lost my three rounds of my Fate released sealed (four was scheduled, had to drop out because of a combination of reasons while not being able to get any more prices), it was still a fun time for me. And the last two matches was actually pretty close ones. So I had fun.

Oh, and now I also have a DCI number! This was the first event since I my LGS got sanctioned!
EZ4ENCE
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
January 24 2015 00:08 GMT
#11827
Fucking hell.
My friend who is hosting our frf draft Sunday opened three extra packs today and got brutal hordechief, foil temporal trespass and ugin.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Lysteria
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
France2280 Posts
January 24 2015 00:24 GMT
#11828
Holy fuck I need that luck tomorrow.
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-24 07:01:53
January 24 2015 06:59 GMT
#11829
Got some decent cards from my packs openings yesterday. All Sieges save for the red one, temporal treepass, Jeskai Infiltrator and two fetches
EZ4ENCE
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
January 24 2015 07:35 GMT
#11830
On January 24 2015 03:02 BallinWitStalin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2015 01:03 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On January 23 2015 10:51 BallinWitStalin wrote:
On January 22 2015 07:57 MoonBear wrote:
On January 22 2015 07:08 Ghostpvp wrote:
The bigger concern I have is the Treasure Cruise ban in Legacy. I really don't understand it when Brainstorm is a thing and by far is and will continue to be the best card in Legacy. If a new card suddenly making one specific strategy very good and dominant for a while is a big deal, well do I have news for Wizards. (Remember when Griselbrand was considered Necropotence 2.0, or when True Name Nemesis was printed?)

While brainstorm is the best card in legacy (not even close). Nothing buries your opponent faster in games where both players are playing 'fair' strategies than casting multiple treasure cruise.

I would argue that TNN isn't even all that troublesome by itself in legacy. It quickly becomes dominating to other 'fair' creature when paired with SFM (All 'fair' creature strategies are inferior to SFM in legacy).

The way I see it, if you're playing a 'fair' strategy there are a lot of other things in legacy that can get you card advantage as well (Crucible giving you back Wastelands, Sylvan Library, DRS, etc.) and Treasure Cruise is just a very, very, good way of doing it. But you're still in a format with Lion's Eye Diamond, Jace the Wallet Sculptor, etc. so it just seems a bit meh to me because it's not like, Goblin Recruiter level of power.

My comparison to cards like TNN is more that it very quickly became a card that was played in a lot of decks but people have adapted and I think with time the same could have happened with Treasure Cruise with time (especially given Legacy's card pool). Maybe I'm wrong and Treasure Cruise really is busted, but the speed at which the ban was issued makes me uncomfortable. (It took longer for Skullclamp to get banned from Extended than it has Treasure Cruise to get banned for example.)

On January 22 2015 07:26 mavignon wrote:
From what I have understood it's more "Pod > every other creature deck" that is a problem to Wizards.

Sure, and I understand that reasoning. I'm more concerned with the overall direction of Modern here though. I don't think Pod leaving suddenly means other creature decks are suddenly going to become Tier 1, because there's a lot more than just Pod holding them back.

If you're playing Aggro, Affinity is still the benchmark to beat. If you're playing midrange, you need to differentiate yourself from BGx Rock (and maybe TarmoTwin?). If you're doing something gimmicky there's Boggles. Any creature deck that's going to try and replace Pod needs to do something better than what those decks do, and at least for now I can't think of any that can. If the goal of the Pod ban is to increase diversity, I can't see how it will actually get the job done since most decks are just worse versions of those ones listed above. I'm very willing to be proven wrong though (maybe there's something good in DTK!).


You guys post well thought out responses, and maybe mine is going to be a bit simplistic (maybe I'm only discussing a surface issue/symptom rather than a root-cause) but I really feel like a format is problematic when the correct choice is to often maindeck multiple copies of pyroblast/red elemental blast. When you get into situations where maindecking those cards is a legitimate strategy specifically to fight opposing treasure cruises, things have kind of gotten out of hand....


Those cards were not for treasure cruise: They were for Brainstorm.


Honestly I don't play legacy control a lot so I can't really gainsay what they're for in the mirrors, but the multiple copies of those cards only seemed to start happening after treasure cruise. I know a few people maindecked one prior to treasure cruise (I really don't recall multiple copies, but I didn't really start paying attention until a few months before Khans so I don't really know), but if they were for brainstorms why did they increase in popularity after TC printing? I guess blue decks got increasingly powerful and represented a greater % of the metagame, so the value of maindecking them increased, but I've seen people on streams using them to fight over TCs as well as brainstorms. Did the percentage of decks playing brainstorm actually change after the printing of TC?


It was the decline of Daze.

pre-cruise RUG was the main aggro deck with its

4 FoW
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce

With Cruise it got replaced with UR Delver eschewing Stifle/Daze requiring a stronger counterspell suite.

So decks began packing more Pyroblast/REB

Not that Cruise isn't a good REB target, but 1-2 Red Blasts have been in use since as far back as 1999 Type 1.5
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-26 03:16:30
January 24 2015 08:12 GMT
#11831
So after experimenting today, Esper Charm is actually really good.

Edit: Two lists I am currently testing in Modern

Esper Control
+ Show Spoiler +

4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Polltued Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Tectonic Edge

3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

4 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
4 Mana Leak
3 Lingering Souls
4 Esper Charm
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Cryptic Command
2 Sphinx's Revelation
1 White Sun's Zenith

Sideboard
3 Spreading Seas
3 Thoughtseize
2 Stony Silence
1 Disenchant
2 Negate
1 Celestial Purge
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Baneslayer Angel


Post board your Jund/Junk Match up is actually hilariously easy. Game 1 vs Tron is really bad but 2 and 3 are fine. UWR is 50/50 game 1 but in their favor 2 and 3 depending on their build.

Just a fun one I really want to try out.

Bloody Seas
+ Show Spoiler +
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
7 Island
1 Mountain
1 Desolate Lighthouse

4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
3 Remand
2 Mana Leak
4 Spreading Seas
3 Blood Moon
2 Vedalken Shackles
3 Electrolyze
4 Cryptic Command
1 Batterskull

Sideboard

2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Keranos, God of Storms
3 Vandalblast
2 Counterflux
1 Negate
1 Spellskite


With so many greedy mana bases floating around why not make everyone hate themselves?
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
January 26 2015 05:43 GMT
#11832
Shameless link to blog but I didn't want to post my full writeup in here where maybe only a couple would read and it would clutter things up.

Looking for feedback and stuffs.

http://www.liquidlegends.net/blogs/476503-new-to-mtg
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
January 26 2015 06:21 GMT
#11833
On January 24 2015 17:12 Shotcoder wrote:
So after experimenting today, Esper Charm is actually really good.

Edit: Two lists I am currently testing in Modern

Esper Control
+ Show Spoiler +

4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Polltued Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Tectonic Edge

3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

4 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
4 Mana Leak
3 Lingering Souls
4 Esper Charm
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Cryptic Command
2 Sphinx's Revelation
1 White Sun's Zenith

Sideboard
3 Spreading Seas
3 Thoughtseize
2 Stony Silence
1 Disenchant
2 Negate
1 Celestial Purge
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Baneslayer Angel


Post board your Jund/Junk Match up is actually hilariously easy. Game 1 vs Tron is really bad but 2 and 3 are fine. UWR is 50/50 game 1 but in their favor 2 and 3 depending on their build.

Just a fun one I really want to try out.

Bloody Seas
+ Show Spoiler +
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
7 Island
1 Mountain
1 Desolate Lighthouse

4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
3 Remand
2 Mana Leak
4 Spreading Seas
3 Blood Moon
2 Vedalken Shackles
3 Electrolyze
4 Cryptic Command
1 Batterskull

Sideboard

2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pillar of Flame
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Keranos, God of Storms
3 Vandalblast
2 Counterflux
1 Negate
1 Spellskite


With so many greedy mana bases floating around why not make everyone hate themselves?


What matchups do you bring Baneslayer come in for?
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
January 26 2015 18:55 GMT
#11834
They're actually the last two spots that I couldn't decide what else to put there. I figured they would be fine as a trump to creature based decks who slimmed down on removal post board. I was also tossing around the idea of removing 1 charm and moving the elspeths to the board so I can main deck the 3 spreading seas.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
January 27 2015 07:15 GMT
#11835
Okay, I think your matchup against those midrange decks should be pretty good without the Baneslayers. And I think she is too slow against Mono-Red types. Weirdly, a one-of Consecrated Sphinx might be the best trump against Rock Style decks, if they pull out all their removal. Though, I don't really know, maybe Wurmcoil? I haven't played much Esper in Modern.

Ultimately, I think there needs to be space for Kor Firewalkers in control decks these days.
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
January 28 2015 19:21 GMT
#11836
I definitely see your point, I think personally I like Timely in that slot. But would you cut the Purge for the third Firewalker?

Also I thought about running a miser Sphinx or Grave Titan in this list. Sphinx did so much work for me in standard and so did the titan that I wanted to give them some love but White Sun and Colonnade have proven to be conistent enough finishers. And because of White Sun I've contemplated running a Teachings just to find it.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
January 29 2015 05:17 GMT
#11837
I'm okay with Purge. It's an okay answer to slipped-in Lilliana. I think Esper's mana base can handle turn 2 WW? Is Timely better or just easier to cast? Sincere question, I have not tried.

I think White Sun is pretty cool. It's safe, at least and it gives you something-ish to do with your mana. But my experience, long ago, is that it's never really been good enough.
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
January 29 2015 22:22 GMT
#11838
On January 29 2015 14:17 slyboogie wrote:
I'm okay with Purge. It's an okay answer to slipped-in Lilliana. I think Esper's mana base can handle turn 2 WW? Is Timely better or just easier to cast? Sincere question, I have not tried.

I think White Sun is pretty cool. It's safe, at least and it gives you something-ish to do with your mana. But my experience, long ago, is that it's never really been good enough.


Thinking about it, with the addition of the 2 Elspeths from my first list to my revision I think I can safely cut White Sun. White sun probably is 1 too many win conditions and Elspeth is good enough if not better anyways.

I like timely strictly because it's better in more match ups and it has synergy with Snapcaster. Nothing more than that. Firewalker is definitely a house at what it does.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
January 29 2015 23:51 GMT
#11839
thoughts on this modern list?

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Bolt
4 Path
3 Figure of Destiny
4 Helix
2 Boros Charm
2 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Brimaz
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Chandra

23 lands
7 fetchlands
4 plains (or 3 plains, 1 desolate lighthouse)
4 sacred foundry
2 clifftop retreat (r/w innistrad rare dual)
2 hallowed fountain
2 steam vents
1 island
1 mountain

Sideboard:
1 Gideon Jura
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 relic
2 kor firewalker
2 shatterstorm
2 stony silence
2 combust
1 wear//tear
2 mirran crusader
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
January 30 2015 03:02 GMT
#11840
On January 30 2015 08:51 Whole wrote:
thoughts on this modern list?

4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Bolt
4 Path
3 Figure of Destiny
4 Helix
2 Boros Charm
2 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Brimaz
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Chandra

23 lands
7 fetchlands
4 plains (or 3 plains, 1 desolate lighthouse)
4 sacred foundry
2 clifftop retreat (r/w innistrad rare dual)
2 hallowed fountain
2 steam vents
1 island
1 mountain

Sideboard:
1 Gideon Jura
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 relic
2 kor firewalker
2 shatterstorm
2 stony silence
2 combust
1 wear//tear
2 mirran crusader


I'm not sure Snapcaster is worth it here. It's tugging your mana into Blue, but you don't need to be there. Without adding Permission/Counter Magic to the deck, he's not stealing tempo or giving you a fight against Scapeshift or Twin (maybe snap-path? Yuck.)

There's a tension between Figure and the rest of your deck. He's robbing you of mana, Swiftspear will accomplish more for less mana!

Finally, if you really want to stay Blue, maybe Geist of Saint Traft plays better with the rest of your deck than Brimaz. Boros Charm and Bolts and Helixes can make even a single Geist combat phase very dangerous.
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
Prev 1 590 591 592 593 594 665 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 16h 7m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason213
ProTech145
BRAT_OK 120
Livibee 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 1156
BeSt 179
Dewaltoss 157
Shuttle 134
League of Legends
C9.Mang0106
Counter-Strike
fl0m3953
pashabiceps1568
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu453
Other Games
gofns15177
Grubby3232
FrodaN1740
ToD178
QueenE158
ArmadaUGS134
mouzStarbuck115
Mew2King96
KnowMe31
fpsfer 1
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 45
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 66
• Adnapsc2 15
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 36
• 80smullet 32
• FirePhoenix12
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV659
League of Legends
• Nemesis5145
• imaqtpie1846
• TFBlade1310
• Shiphtur312
Upcoming Events
HomeStory Cup
16h 7m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 7h
HomeStory Cup
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
HomeStory Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-28
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.