So bans came out. In short:

Cruise, Dig, Pod banned in Modern
Cruise banned in Legacy. Worldgorger Dragon unbanned.
Cruise is restricted in Vintage. Gifts Ungiven unrestricted.

read more: magic.wizards.com

I would love to hear your guys' thoughts on it. I don't play Modern (where we see the most) but damn that seems like it shift the meta quite a bit.

EDIT: I woke up at 2:00 AM, spelling is hard.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

January 19 2015 16:50 GMT

#11783

You managed to spell cruise 3 different ways...

That pod ban is a big deal. Lol Worldgorger unbanned as if anybody cared.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

January 19 2015 16:52 GMT

#11784

Did they just make the format even more stale? Maybe there's some wacky WGD manifest games.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

January 19 2015 16:54 GMT

#11785

I heard a lot about ascendancy being unplayable without cruise/dig, but I'm curious to see if anybody can make a strong build of it post-bans.

Shotcoder

United States2316 Posts

January 19 2015 17:10 GMT

#11786

On January 20 2015 01:48 .AK wrote:
So bans came out. In short:

Cruise, Dig, Pod banned in Modern
Cruise banned in Legacy. Worldgorger Dragon unbanned.
Cruise is restricted in Vintage. Gifts Ungiven unrestricted.

read more: magic.wizards.com

I would love to hear your guys' thoughts on it. I don't play Modern (where we see the most) but damn that seems like it shift the meta quite a bit.

EDIT: I woke up at 2:00 AM, spelling is hard.

Good bans imo. Banning the delve card or pod itself would have pushed the meta game in one direction or the other. This pushes the meta game back to a junk midrange meta where it's easier to punish.

Overall I'm happy. Although I also would have been happy if all three had been kept legal. I would have been upset if the delve cards had been banned or if pod had been banned.

Kinie

United States3106 Posts

January 19 2015 18:02 GMT

#11787

You forgot to mention that Golgari Grave-Troll is unbanned in Modern.

As someone who was looking to invest into Modern, this wave of bannings just made me lose all desire to play it. I understand why Birthing Pod (the deck I was going to build) was always at risk of being banned (repeatable tutor effect) but it wasn't as though it was an auto-win deck.

The reason Pod was winning so much (their reason for banning it) was because of a large enough toolbox in terms of creatures that they could have a reasonable sideboard game against just about any deck in the field, and rewarded players who spent the time to tune the deck and learn all its iterations for Pod targets.

They banned Pod because creatures are getting too good/strong.

Now, I'll admit I'm still going to play Magic but only on a casual level, I doubt I'll ever play in a competitive REL (non FNM) event after this.

I won't invest into Standard, now that we're going to see that format rotate every 12 months. They've proven more than willing to drop the banhammer in Modern, so why play a format where I could literally be banned out of the format every 3 months. Legacy and Vintage have too much of a barrier cost to entry, and with there being a good chance of Legacy dying down soon (within the next couple years) I wouldn't get much out of playing it.

I was honestly hoping that they'd make Modern more like Legacy (in terms of power level) by keeping things as-is or unbanning some more stuff. But their firm, liberal use of the banhammer on anything that's "too good" means that any tier 1 deck has to be feared of getting banned from here on out.

deth2munkies

United States4051 Posts

January 19 2015 19:50 GMT

#11788

Creatures should be strong, or else there's no reason to play them. Magic is in a hellish state when the best decks play 8 or less creatures. Creature combat is what makes strategy work, without it, you're just guessing what's in their hand. No matter how educated the guess, it isn't a substitute for navigating a field of information. For all its faults, Torment/Urza block draft are some of my favorite formats because they involve difficult boardstates with creatures.

MCMcEmcee

United States1609 Posts

January 19 2015 19:58 GMT

#11789

I didn't think wizards could find a way to make modern even less appealing but they did it.

I strongly disagree with the "creatures are necessary for strategy" idea. Figuring out what they could have and what cards matter is great. Planning for big fights on the stack and properly navigating those turns is also great.

deth2munkies

United States4051 Posts

January 19 2015 20:09 GMT

#11790

On January 20 2015 04:58 MCMcEmcee wrote:
I didn't think wizards could find a way to make modern even less appealing but they did it.

I strongly disagree with the "creatures are necessary for strategy" idea. Figuring out what they could have and what cards matter is great. Planning for big fights on the stack and properly navigating those turns is also great.

Whoever goes for it first loses in 99% of those situations, encouraging draw go, which is incredibly boring to watch and worse to play.

MCMcEmcee

United States1609 Posts

January 19 2015 20:13 GMT

#11791

I think it's fun to play. Land-go when both players have 7 cards in hand is way more interesting than land-go when both players have no cards in hand.
Figuring out when to go for it is also an important skill.

WindWolf

Sweden11767 Posts

January 19 2015 20:44 GMT

#11792

Since I only play in limited events and casual constructed ones, I don't have a particular feeling regarding these changes

Risen

United States7927 Posts

January 19 2015 21:04 GMT

#11793

I think dig could have stayed without being too busted, but I could very easily be wrong on that front.

I look forward to the upcoming format. Pod had to go bc it was too strong of a toolbox. T3 finks into T4 rhino was destructive. Their reasoning is decent (future printings would only make pod STRONGER due to more available options) but I feel like they could print stronger SPELLS to balance it out :< BOLD

cecek

Czech Republic18921 Posts

January 19 2015 21:27 GMT

#11794

Pod had to get banned. The deck was getting stronger with each set. Like, literally every set there was at the very least one card that was worth considering running in pod just because of the way the card work. It was just too strong of an engine card, they couldn't keep it in check while still printing new interesting creatures.

As a spectator I'm really excited about the upcoming ptfrf, it should be a lot of fun. I wonder if someone's gonna break grave troll in dredgevine or whatever different deck would play it.

deth2munkies

United States4051 Posts

January 19 2015 22:20 GMT

#11795

On January 20 2015 05:13 MCMcEmcee wrote:
I think it's fun to play. Land-go when both players have 7 cards in hand is way more interesting than land-go when both players have no cards in hand.
Figuring out when to go for it is also an important skill.

It's not that hard to figure out, the correct answer is "after your opponent fails to." If you have 7 cards in hand that are relevant, then you don't care how many draw spells he casts, same with him. Never cast a draw spell that leaves you with 1 fewer counterspells available than your opponent could possibly have.

I mean the decision tree is really fucking simple. It's when you're dealing with creature decks and trying to find the best way to deal with each threat and the best time to draw cards, how low you can go, etc. that requires real skill in playing control. And having a control deck in the format makes the format healthy, but they should definitely utilize control creatures (Omenspeaker, Prog Sphinx, etc.) so that it's possible to interact with them short of counterspells and "counter-counterspells" (i.e. God's Willing).

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

January 19 2015 22:29 GMT

#11796

You know, I don't think magic is your game.

Whole

United States6046 Posts

January 19 2015 22:37 GMT

#11797

Do yall think UR Delver can still be competitive with the Time Walk instead?

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

January 19 2015 22:46 GMT

#11798

On January 20 2015 07:20 deth2munkies wrote:

Show nested quote +

Umm, its not that simple. After your opponent fails to means what? 7 card relevant spells means what? You are also dealing with a very idealized situation in a format with Thoughtseize. You wait too long and you still lose relevant spells to 1 mana spells.

Also, no the control versus creature deck match up isn't that easy either. Deck building and sideboarding is a big deal, taking tempo is also a big deal, I am interacting with Abzan decks because Nullify beats the Carytid lines so hard. I am interacting with Abzan/Sidisi decks because I held back on my draw spells so they deck themselves first and timed my Perilous Vaults properly. It's not just jam counterspells at threats.

The problem is that skill is fucking hard as fuck to explain to the casual watcher, the casual player, even the FMN grinder, because the decision tree isn't the hard part. The multiple decision trees you have in front of you is the hard part. Like I have watched the best control players play control decks and the way they play, when to let spells through (even when they doesn't have the answer in hand) and when to counter (even when they has an answer in hand), is astounding. So to say its "not hard to figure out" is selling it very short.