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On February 21 2013 02:26 Sn0_Man wrote:
Yes, but the chances of your deck playing Experiment One on turn one, then Rakdos Shred Freak on turn 2 are actually 0. Actually. Because you have no lands that allow you to do that.
Remember that a) you have to expect them to interact with you by turn 3 (aka azorius charm one of your creatures) and also that 6 one drops is around 50/50 to hit one turn one.
Again, you CAN hit for 4 turn 3, and it probably won't be rare, but I still say your average, reliable turn 3 is simply 2 damage (assuming you want to play horror on turn 3). There is, of course, an argument for holding horror until turn 4 so that you can get in more damage while also holding up regen for lotleth troll or w/e.
Valid point. However, the Horror is still 2 mana types instead of 1, making it a lot easier to drop on turn 3 than Nighthawks. Now, if you know of some good Gruul hybrids to flesh my options out with, I'd love to hear about them. The only one I personally see is Burning-Tree, which would be awesome.
Of course, that presumes I can get my hands on those, and they're still just 2 drops, where I'm not suffering as bad as 3. And an ideal 3-drop would be something in either Rakdos or Gruul colors to replace the Nighthawks, to really give me options alongside the Golgari color dreg manglers.
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Aggro and mill seem to go against each other quite hard, unless you just use mill as a way to potentially ruin opponent's draws, which will often make it very mediocre though. Since mill aims to clock opponent based on their deck and aggro aims to kick their life to zero asap.
Also, I still think some of the Gruul aggro variants are cheapest options for solid deck, without needing manabase beyond the two colors they come in, if even that (as example the deck I linked some pages ago, very green heavy).
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On February 21 2013 02:31 Trotske wrote:
Thoughts on a Agro/miller deck? I jsut started playing MtG and have pulled quite a few dimir cards that seem to work ok for a mill/agro deck. I will post the current decklist when I get home but would love some input of some good cards that I should be looking to trade for.
I'm of the opinion that Lazav is underrated for that. Imagine if you milled, say, an Obzedat, or a Boros Reckoner, or a Thundermaw Hellkite, or a Silverblade Paladin, an Aurelia...
Just imagine the giggles you could get with a Hexproof Silverblade Paladin. Soulbond it to something with evasion.
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On February 21 2013 02:31 Trotske wrote:
Thoughts on a Agro/miller deck? I jsut started playing MtG and have pulled quite a few dimir cards that seem to work ok for a mill/agro deck. I will post the current decklist when I get home but would love some input of some good cards that I should be looking to trade for.
Well, i mean aggro/mill sounds fun but it is really un-synergistic. Mill attempts to win by whittling down their card total (from a start of 60) while aggro attempts to win by whittling down their life total (from a start of 20). Until you get either total down to 0, you aren't winning. As such, its important to focus on ONE total and get it down as fast as possible before they either race you or take complete control of the game (my 2 cents).
Damn I sound like the fun police today.
A fairly cool archtype that you can try is Aggro/Self-mill that uses cards like Splinterfright (from the previous bock, still standard legal) to take advantage of "mill" cards to boost your aggro plan. However, I'm guessing you don't have all that many great cards for that?
I mean, you can play cards like that 1/1 for 1 and a black that gets +1+1 for each creature in your opponents graveyard, but you have no guarantees that your opponent is going to run many/any creatures in constructed. The whole dimir mill and creatures in your opponents graveyard thing is a strictly limited mechanic. Where limited means Draft and Sealed formats aka 40-card decks, not 60-card decks.
Jeez I really do sound like the fun police again. 
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I guess my questions really boil down to this: What do people think is more likely to take games in a Standard format against decks involving people who have actual card collections: An unreliable mana base, or a more mediocre spell selection?
I'm going to have one of the two, and I want to play on games day. With the way my local shop is running it, I should get a reasonable chunk of prize pool just by not being at the very bottom of the bracket.
(I'm assuming it runs the same way as the win-a-box, 3-4 rounds followed by elimination for the top X players. Minimum payout for Games Day is 1 pack guaranteed, $10 entry, so I'm assuming that being at ~50% of my games won should net me 2 packs)
I don't care a ton about winning, (I'd love to, but I'm a pragmatist about my current card base) but I want to at least feel like I'm actually playing.
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I'm thinking of running something similar to this Dark Naya deck that Christophe Rolin played at PT Gatecrash for my next FNM.
60 cards
1 Blood Crypt
2 Clifftop Retreat
1 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
2 Kessig Wolf Run
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Rootbound Crag
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Stomping Ground
1 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
2 Woodland Cemetery
24 lands
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Olivia Voldaren
4 Restoration Angel
4 Thragtusk
21 creatures
4 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Farseek
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Selesnya Charm
1 Ultimate Price
15 other spells
Sideboard
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Olivia Voldaren
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sever the Bloodline
3 Slaughter Games
2 Tragic Slip
2 Triumph of Ferocity
15 sideboard cards
But I love Boros Reckoner and was wondering what you guys though about trying to fit him in. Maybe cut 1 Smiter and 1 Thragtusk for example?
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I see little reason for running a card like loxodon smiter over reckoner in the current meta. I'd say you might have trouble casting him, but pilgrims and your manabase look just fine.
Edit: The list I will be running for my win-a-box FNM and gameday this weekend. I really hated detention sphere as my answer to planeswalkers, and I feel like planar cleansing fills that slot very, very well. The consistent mana base makes me LOVE playing esper. I've made a few changes to Ben's list that come down to personal preference (3 sphinx's revs instead of 4, and replacing one with forbidden alchemy) and instead of gloom surgeon in the side Terminus. 9 board wipes post-board vs agro is pretty damn solid and can get around boros charm shenans w/ terminus. Still hurts when Naya gets champion into double humans (one drops or BTE + 1) into silverblade into bloodrush for the win, though. Like... hurts my soul. No amount of augurs is saving you from that nastiness. Would really like your thoughts. The ghost quarter over neph is b/c of kessig.
+ Show Spoiler +
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But what about running both? Reckoner is obviously insane, but Smiter is great in most matchups as well
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Also, is Liliana unplayable in the above list because of her double B casting cost? I also don't have 4 bonfires, maybe some abrupt decays or searing spears instead?
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So I've also started working on my Game Day standard deck, I never really play constructed but with the amount of drafts I've done over the last 2 years I've managed to trade some boros stuff together. What I currently have:
+ Show Spoiler [The Deck] +
22 lands:
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Slayer's Stronghold
6 Mountain
6 Plains
30 Creatures:
4 Boros Elite
4 Champions of the Parish
2 Legion Loyalist
4 Wojek Halbardiers
4 Lightning Maulers
4 Daring Skyjek
1 Thalia
3 Silverblade Paladin
4 Skyknight Legionare
8 Spells
4 Boros Charm
4 Searing Spear
Now a friend of mine has offered to let me use his set of Boros Reckoners, which seems like a great idea, but I'm not really sure what to cut. I also have no idea what kind of field I'll be up against and what I should be putting in my sideboard. Any Ideas?
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Oh ya I forgot. How about Thundermaw in the above list I posted? Should be able to fit in 2 somewhere, no?
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I'd cut some combination of daring skyjek and skyknight legionnaire.
Note that with 8 white 1drops and only 10 possible untapped white sources on turn 1, you may wish to cut ~2 mountains for plains.
Sideboard you definitely want some number of skullcrack. Beyond that, maybe a thundermaw hellkite or 2? (okay thats pretty expensive). Otherwise I don't really know 
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United States5142 Posts
On February 21 2013 03:11 Risen wrote:
I see little reason for running a card like loxodon smiter over reckoner in the current meta. I'd say you might have trouble casting him, but pilgrims and your manabase look just fine.
Porque no las dos?
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On February 21 2013 03:23 JT wrote:
Also, is Liliana unplayable in the above list because of her double B casting cost? I also don't have 4 bonfires, maybe some abrupt decays or searing spears instead?
Double black off like 8 black sources in a 60 card deck does indeed sound horrible. Besides that, I don't see why you would want a Liliana in that deck.
Abrupt Decay is good with all the Reckoners everywhere. Mizzium Mortars might not be the worst card either.
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On February 21 2013 03:38 iGrok wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 03:11 Risen wrote:
I see little reason for running a card like loxodon smiter over reckoner in the current meta. I'd say you might have trouble casting him, but pilgrims and your manabase look just fine. Porque no las dos?
Lol yeah he could run both, but he looks midrange, and I'd rather have all those other creatures over smiter when not agro.
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Ya, I just happen to have Liliana's sitting around and I like her in the Esper matchup maybe. Mortars makes sense as well. Any thoughts on Smiter vs Reckoner and Thundermaw in that deck?
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I will tell you right now a turn 3 lili vs my esper deck is so strong. Not unbeatable, but it's an amazing card in the matchup.
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Judicator-
Green is primarily for Deathrite and Decay, Dryad is really just there as a 2-drop that is easy to cast that gets big. I did try loltroll for a bit because of Azorius Charm and Supreme Verdict, but it's too hard to reliably cast on turn 2.
Currently playing BUG because of the local upswing of Reckoners specifically and older Saito lists in general. Reckoner is a pain when all of your creatures are small and all of your removal is burn zzz.
The Azorius Charm issue is known and has already affected a lot of my work on the deck after this past weekend, though there is not a lot of Esper/UWR/Bant locally compared to RGx aggro. Mizzium Skin and Dispel probably making it into the maindeck, some removal choices are going to be looked at, etc.
Might just play UWR since I have it fully built and sleeved anyways lol
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On February 21 2013 03:48 Risen wrote:
I will tell you right now a turn 3 lili vs my esper deck is so strong. Not unbeatable, but it's an amazing card in the matchup.
Ya I love the idea lol. But I guess she's only consistently castable in Jund where I'm not sitting on so few black sources.
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On February 21 2013 02:31 Trotske wrote:
Thoughts on a Agro/miller deck? I jsut started playing MtG and have pulled quite a few dimir cards that seem to work ok for a mill/agro deck. I will post the current decklist when I get home but would love some input of some good cards that I should be looking to trade for.
So here is my current deck (please note this is the first deck I have ever made)
+ Show Spoiler +Devour flesh x 2
midnight recovery x 1
crypt ghast x 1
psychic strike x 1
whispering madness x 1
scatter arc x 1
paroniod delusions x 1
undercity informer x 2
slate street ruffian x 3
wight of precinct six x 4
gridlock x 1
consuming aberration x1
gitaxian probe x 1
mind grind x 1
balustrade spy x 3
grisly spectacle x 2
coerced confession x 2
hands of binding x 1
sepulchral primordial x 1
duskmantle guildmage x1
dimir charm x1
watery Grave x 1
Dimir guildgate x 4
10 swamp
8 island
Some of the cards in there are simply because I don't have better ones and some of those I want more of but don't have them. Would love to know some better cards to round the deck out / if you guys think I should scrap it because its going to lose to everyone at a constructed FNM.
just trying to play draft right now until i get more cards but thought I could make some decks.
Thinking about making a gruul deck next.
Question: Can you put a boros reck in a gruul deck? I pulled one and I figure since its pretty good why not but I don't have many gates for a gruul deck or any shocklands so it might be hard to get 4 mountains at any reasonable time.
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