EPTMagic: The Gathering - Page 212
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
Seems pretty insane if it can get going, but stocking up on Grisly Salvageand Tracker's Instincts seems to be loading the deck with spells a bit too much...thinking of a 2/3 split atm. I really want 4 Salvage, but the flashback seems way too important given how likely it is to get milled. Also some amount of Golgari Charms main seems fine to get rid of Ghoultree chump blockers and the fact that there's a BILLION enchantments entering the format, also secondary wrath protection that allows you to commit everything to the board. | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
UBx can't beat anything but other control decks, there are no good sweepers in the deck unless you want to go heavy swamps in which case Mutilate is still...not that good. Barter in Blood however is very good against Naya. Between Slip and Barter, you have a very narrow window to establish your board presence with a Tamiyo. Still not good in this format though. I don't like Naya decks nor do I like the Bant version (with Sublimes instead of Huntmasters), so I am just messing around with Woo's block deck and modifying it for standard. I still think there's an Unburial Rites deck, and Woo's version seems the best to keep yourself from getting rolled straight up against Zombies/Naya/Bant. Control decks have to respect the Unburial combo and you have Caverns to just shit on their lines of play since you can just lay big thing after big thing. Izzet is still terrible. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 23 2012 13:27 deth2munkies wrote: List I'm brewing is a BuG Self-mill with Ghoultree, Splinterfright, and Jarad. Seems pretty insane if it can get going, but stocking up on Grisly Salvageand Tracker's Instincts seems to be loading the deck with spells a bit too much...thinking of a 2/3 split atm. I really want 4 Salvage, but the flashback seems way too important given how likely it is to get milled. Also some amount of Golgari Charms main seems fine to get rid of Ghoultree chump blockers and the fact that there's a BILLION enchantments entering the format, also secondary wrath protection that allows you to commit everything to the board. Then you run into decks like Naya that will kill you before you set any of it up  | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On September 23 2012 13:27 deth2munkies wrote: List I'm brewing is a BuG Self-mill with Ghoultree, Splinterfright, and Jarad. Seems pretty insane if it can get going, but stocking up on Grisly Salvageand Tracker's Instincts seems to be loading the deck with spells a bit too much...thinking of a 2/3 split atm. I really want 4 Salvage, but the flashback seems way too important given how likely it is to get milled. Also some amount of Golgari Charms main seems fine to get rid of Ghoultree chump blockers and the fact that there's a BILLION enchantments entering the format, also secondary wrath protection that allows you to commit everything to the board. I think Jarad's Orders is good enough for a deck like that, even if it is slow. Can someone help me with the a rulings question on it though? It reads: + Show Spoiler + Search your library for up to two creature cards and reveal them. Put one into your hand and the other into your library. Then shuffle your library. If you just chose one card, it must go into your hand right? I mean, it's a corner case - this format desperately needs a 2BG sorcery speed Entomb...still curious, though. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On September 23 2012 16:34 slyboogie wrote: I think Jarad's Orders is good enough for a deck like that, even if it is slow. Can someone help me with the a rulings question on it though? It reads: + Show Spoiler + Search your library for up to two creature cards and reveal them. Put one into your hand and the other into your library. Then shuffle your library. If you just chose one card, it must go into your hand right? I mean, it's a corner case - this format desperately needs a 2BG sorcery speed Entomb...still curious, though. The second half of the card says "graveyard" not library, but I'm fairly certain the first goes into your hand because it says "and then" which insinuates the graveyard happens after the put into your hand. I don't think it's good enough, though. It's a spell and it's 4 mana, so it's not pumping your splinterfright when it gets milled and even when you do cast it, you're casting it on T3 at the soonest and you'd just rather have splinterfright or a ghoultree by then. Also I'm not sure how you thing Naya can outpace this deck with any decently good draw. Naya is losing pod, splicer, Metamorph, the swords, and a couple of good sweepers in Slagstorm and Whipflare. R2R is going to make it a much more midrangey deck than a fast deck, and when they're playing 5/5s and I'm playing 10/10s, I'm coming out on top, especially when Jarad throws aforementioned 10/10s at their face. Edit: Beat together a tentative maindeck, don't want to venture into a sideboard until we get a better idea of the meta, but it looks to be bad since most of the cards that really help you beat the hate in this format are spells rather than creatures, meaning the deck has to take a speed/consistency hit in order to beat Rest in Peace and running Tormod's Crypts. + Show Spoiler + 4x Ghoultree 4x Splinterfright 4x Screeching Skaab 3x Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord 4x Dreg Mangler 4x Dawntreader Elk 3x Lotleth Troll 4x Tracker's Instincts 4x Grisly Salvage 3x Thought Scour 4x Overgrown Tomb 4x Hinterland Harbor 3x Woodland Cemetary 5x Forest 5x Swamp 2x Island The mana base is also very blue light and my only 2 blue spells are a 1 and 2 drop respectively, hopefully with Elk and Salvage I'll be able to keep the mana somewhat consistent. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Or... turn 2 call, turn 3 huntmaster, turn 4 thragtusk, turn 5 angel flicker tusk or huntmaster, turn 6 wurm both of those lines are better than any lines you have and their deck is a hell of a lot more consistent since they're not relying on mills, on top of that they have access to selesnya charm main board which basically acts as a free path of exile the minute you think you are stabilizing. The Bant version would just fly over you with a simple turn 2 Lingering Souls into turn 3 Sublime and you'll never get ahead of that. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On September 23 2012 23:57 Judicator wrote: Naya outpaces it by going turn 1 mana dork, turn 2 smiter, turn 3 huntmaster, turn 4 thragtusk,etc. Or... turn 2 call, turn 3 huntmaster, turn 4 thragtusk, turn 5 angel flicker tusk or huntmaster, turn 6 wurm both of those lines are better than any lines you have and their deck is a hell of a lot more consistent since they're not relying on mills, on top of that they have access to selesnya charm main board which basically acts as a free path of exile the minute you think you are stabilizing. The Bant version would just fly over you with a simple turn 2 Lingering Souls into turn 3 Sublime and you'll never get ahead of that. T3 Ghoultree seems pretty good against those starts. So does Lotleth pitch Jarad/something swing for 4 or hold the fort and regenerate forever. Yeah, I can get nut drawn out pretty easily, but I can nut draw them out pretty easily too. I actually played a version of this deck back during Dark Ascension and watched it get played by people infinitely better than me, and you underestimate how easy it was to get creatures in the yard with just Tracker's Instinct and Skaabs, Grisly Salvage just makes it even more consistent. Golgari Charm in the sideboard > Lingering Souls, mass removal, and helps against Rest in Peace and the turbo Oring. I was thinking about Rancor in the sideboard or even putting it in the maindeck to make Ghoultree infinitely better and Skaabs/Elks into bigger threats, I'm just not sure I wanna cut the thought scours for it, though it would let me cut the 2 islands and play another forest/swamp for Jarad. This deck performs fairly well against control decks that don't have maindeck GY hate too (thank god Nihil Spellbomb is gone), since most of the interactions are hard for control to deal with. I also should probably mention that this deck benefits from chumping/trading, so double blocking a smiter with Skaab/Elk or some variant can actually be beneficial, unlike most other decks in the format. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Have you actually tested against Naya decks yet? | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On September 24 2012 00:42 Judicator wrote: You won't. Naya is pretty consistent and again Turn 3 Ghoultree does what exactly besides getting exiled by Charm? Have you actually tested against Naya decks yet? I built this list 30 seconds before I posted, I don't even have it proxied yet, much less tested. Unfortunately, the store cancelled the draft today due to lack of attendance so there's probably not gonna be anyone to test with there, and I'll be damned before I bother with MWS, so next week probably. I like the lines this deck gives and it can go up and over, my chief failing in my earlier incarnation was that I kept trying to add in some incremental advantage spells that cut my creature count too low, that's what makes the deck pretty difficult to build. Again, though, if they have it all, they have it all, 4 Charm draws is pretty bad no matter which deck you're playing. If the game goes longer than 5 turns, I feel like I have an advantage due to my massive amount of filtering that lets me get my much larger threats running consistently. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Edit: Your deck relies on terrible cards unless the GY is filled...that means your whole deck is a literal house of cards. All of Naya's spells and creatures are good on their own. We (people around my local) actually looked at Skaab Ruinnator (the best card out of all the GY-based creatures) and decided it was horrible since you needed to run some highly situational cards (Mulch/Tracker/Salvage) in order to make the other terrible creatures (Ghoultree/Splinterfright) actually playable. If it doesn't come together, then you just have a bunch of crap; that is hardly the case with Naya or Bant midrange because their creature quality is just inherently high. I already pointed out 2 solid draw lines that you can get with Naya or Bant and there much more. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
Not only that, but the sideboard plan would most definitely include at least Gnaw to the Bone to deal with straight aggressive decks and allow us to stabilize behind giant monsters while gaining copious amounts of life. Golgari Charm can handle enchantments and lingering souls/other token strategies, and only kills one of our creatures. Lotleth Troll is very good at holding ground, Elk chumps for value, etc. It's not out of the question to side Silklash Spider, Acidic Slime, Thragtusk, Yeva, etc. I'm not claiming I'm able to brew the best deck in the format, but it sure as hell is competitive. It can and will take matches off pretty much any deck in the format. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 24 2012 04:36 deth2munkies wrote: There are 11 cards in the main deck that are absurdly powerful with this strategy. You have to run a bunch of mediocre cards like probe and thought scour to power Delver/Pike, but it's worth it because those are powerful strategies, and are you actually going to tell me that Goblin Charbelcher is a good card on its own without a bunch of shitty to mediocre cards supporting it? My utility creatures are mostly 2/2s which are not irrelevant bodies, and I get value if they get hit with a removal spell or trade in combat. You can't evaluate cards in a vacuum and apply it to how they perform in a specific deck. Not only that, but the sideboard plan would most definitely include at least Gnaw to the Bone to deal with straight aggressive decks and allow us to stabilize behind giant monsters while gaining copious amounts of life. Golgari Charm can handle enchantments and lingering souls/other token strategies, and only kills one of our creatures. Lotleth Troll is very good at holding ground, Elk chumps for value, etc. It's not out of the question to side Silklash Spider, Acidic Slime, Thragtusk, Yeva, etc. I'm not claiming I'm able to brew the best deck in the format, but it sure as hell is competitive. It can and will take matches off pretty much any deck in the format. Are you listening to what you are saying? Probe-Thought Scour bad in Delver? Really now, are you seriously trying to say that Salvage and Mulch are the on same tier as Probe-Scour in their respective decks? Charbelcher wins the game, does your "combo" win the game on the spot? Didn't think so. Slow down there champ, you're comparing combo decks to a slow gy deck. Test your deck, then come back and see if your opinion has changed. If you haven't even built the deck yet, don't talk, you'll find out very quickly that there are many viable decks out there and I only pointed out a single variant and your concept's weakness to it. Build it. Test it. Then try and make these claims. Edit: Hint, I am telling you that the 11 cards that are "absurdly powerful" aren't all that powerful. | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On September 24 2012 04:51 Judicator wrote: Are you listening to what you are saying? Probe-Thought Scour bad in Delver? Really now, are you seriously trying to say that Salvage and Mulch are the on same tier as Probe-Scour in their respective decks? Charbelcher wins the game, does your "combo" win the game on the spot? Didn't think so. Slow down there champ, you're comparing combo decks to a slow gy deck. Test your deck, then come back and see if your opinion has changed. If you haven't even built the deck yet, don't talk, you'll find out very quickly that there are many viable decks out there and I only pointed out a single variant and your concept's weakness to it. Build it. Test it. Then try and make these claims. Edit: Hint, I am telling you that the 11 cards that are "absurdly powerful" aren't all that powerful. I'm not going to argue with you any more, but I will clarify, I'm saying that in a vacuum, Charbelcher, Probe, and Scour are mediocre at best cards, it's the other bad and/or mediocre cards in the deck and the overall synergy between them that makes them good. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 24 2012 06:08 deth2munkies wrote: I'm not going to argue with you any more, but I will clarify, I'm saying that in a vacuum, Charbelcher, Probe, and Scour are mediocre at best cards, it's the other bad and/or mediocre cards in the deck and the overall synergy between them that makes them good. I didn't say they were good cards by themselves, but all of those cards does something other than just support the theme of the deck, aka they either win the game or they cantrip. Salvage/Mulch/Tracker does none of that which makes them terrible in most decks and mediocre in these kind of decks; yes they drive the engine but the engine has to be worth driving in the first place. You're overestimating the significance of these cards because their inherent creature quality is so low in the first place. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
Here's a link to what the list looks like: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/junk-midrange-23-09-12-3/ | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On September 24 2012 23:29 Judicator wrote: Don't think Griselbrand is that great in this format. He's the best fattie worth a reanimation target so far, and I have gotten to draw cards off him to get me back from being behind in my playtesting. I've thought about Avacyn instead of him, but with a fair number of bounce spells and so much graveyard hate in Standard (both atm and post-rotation) I think she isn't as good. The rotation of the titan cycle leaves a fairly huge power vacuum in the 6-7 CMC slot, as there really aren't many cards that can "win" you the game after swinging with them once. Nothing else at the moment seems worth taking a risk on playing, where-as he's been used before to some degree of success in both Standard and Legacy. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
He's never been Standard playable and reanimation targets need to do more than win you the game after swinging in this format (and no, paying 7 life is not viable in this format). | ||
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