Magic: The Gathering - Page 180

On June 16 2012 14:42 deth2munkies wrote:

Gaining one loyalty is part of the cost of the ability, even if it's countered, he still gains 1 loyalty. If it dies, the ability is countered, he still gains 1 loyalty.

Same thing as still having to exile a card when your Force gets Forced.

You can activate his +1 and choose 0 creatures and get the +1 as well.

If they sweep and have no pressure (dedicated control) he still ticks up and ultimates. Even if they have yet another sweeper, you're running them out of answers fast. Odds are they'll have to sweep twice before Ajani ultimates given his -3, and even running 4 days, you have to be pretty lucky to have the 3rd for the ultimate.

On June 17 2012 00:38 Judicator wrote:


I knew the cost part, just wasn't sure if you can actually target nothing, but obviously that's not the case. I was mentioning because maybe there were interactions in RoR with abilities resolving versus them not.

Umm, what? What kind of games do you play where you put that kind of pressure on a player from a PW that doesn't make more dudes?

Let me ask you this, do you have 4 turns right now against an Esper player with any of the aggro decks (including Delver)? Do you think that once Sword rotates, the control players will have more or less time? Better yet, what makes you think they'll need to sweep twice? You seem to forget that there are instant speed removal spells, and any of them timewalks Ajani. Then you reach the mythical 8 loyalty (to put that slow in perspective, an Entreat non-miracle would beat Ajani), now what?

Giving Ajani 4 starting loyalty should tell you how worthless he was in testing with 3 (and a -2). At 4 and -3, he's reasonable and that's all he really is, just another marginal walker unless...White or Red or Green gets a really durable creature a la Dungrove Elder (oh look another card you would want it on but can't). He's not even on the power level of Koth in any match up or even Elspeth 2 against control decks.

On June 17 2012 03:32 Judicator wrote:
????

Turn 5 Entreat non-miracle = 1 4/4 Flyer that if you don't interact with beats Ajani (heard 4 toughness is easy for Boros). Turn 4 Miracle-d Entreat is 2 4/4s (heard 2 4 toughness).

Heard that Alchemy is pretty good at finding Days, Terminus, Oblivion Ring(s), Snapcasters. Heard Ponder is pretty good for that as well. Heard Alchemy gets a flashback before Ajani goes off. Heard 1 to 1 trades with Boros seems pretty good. Heard Ajani needs creatures to be an actual threat, also heard Ajani doesn't actually win you the game otherwise. Heard 1 million 2/2s that the other player can see coming from 4 turns away at sorcery speed is good too. Heard that the meta is pretty creature heavy so everyone is packing creature hate. Heard that Boros can't actually just hold back on creatures and rely on 1 or 2 creatures (going by the Humans lists) to pressure. Heard that your mana base is pretty shitty to be consistently relying on Ajani at which point why are you even playing Ajani?

You need to stop bringing up Ajani's ultimate, that shit isn't going to be relevant but 1 out of 20 games. His +1 is underwhelming when the other player has relevant mana up. His -3 is the best part, but only really effective when the opponent doesn't realize that it's there or doesn't play around Ajani. Otherwise you want to pay 3 mana for a sorcery speed jump/double strike?

I also like how you think you have time to draw cards as Boros in today's meta. Every deck is sped up by a turn or 2 now thanks to Delver, judging by M13's mechanics and cards, that isn't likely to change any time soon. You know the saying goes that these decks are usually like hope your first 15 cards is good enough? It's more like 10 right now.

On June 17 2012 05:02 Shotcoder wrote:


THis man speaks nothing but the truth.

On June 17 2012 04:56 Durp wrote:
New Liliana looks like such an EDH bomb. That's one card in this set I actually want to stock up on.

edit; a few months of new Liliana, Obliterator and Lashwrite in the format. Gonna need to try monoblack again, even though you're fucked with no board

On June 17 2012 05:30 Risen wrote:


Judi is usually pretty good as a resource for mtg advice.

On June 17 2012 10:00 DEN1ED wrote:


Ya key word is usually. In this case he is just incorrect but will go on talking about how esper is the greatest deck and nothing can beat it as usual.

On June 17 2012 10:36 Judicator wrote:


And you believe Ajani is the second coming. You have presented relatively nothing in your defense of Ajani's effectiveness, I already told you why your points are pretty invalid and gave you specific cards. Also, you seem to think that the slower decks need multiple Days to hold you off, when that is really not the case.

DEN1ED wrote:
I like him. 4 loyalty to start is a lot for a 3 mana PW. His abilities arn't the best but the -3 on a wolfir silverheart or something is pretty much game.

On June 17 2012 10:46 DEN1ED wrote:


Where the hell did I say that? I just said he was pretty good. Certainly not the most powerful PW ever. You even compared him to Jace 1.0 as if it was an insult when Jace 1.0 was very good. And just because he is not good in the current environment doesn't mean he is crap. At some point I think he will be a solid PW that will have an impact. Kinda like garruk relentless/sorin2.0 level. A solid role playing card but not amazing. If you drop this early vs a control deck you obviously don't run the -3 into open mana. You just keep using the +1 forever to make your guy bigger and it puts a lot of pressure on them to always have an answer to every creature because if they don't all of a sudden they are dead. Also, hexproof creatures are kinda a thing.

And to quote myself:


That is all I said about him. Yes, clearly I think he is the second coming of JTMS. I'm just going to not bother arguing with you in the future.

On June 17 2012 11:38 slyboogie wrote:
To be fair, those two protect themselves (most overused term Magic, right ahead of "value.") and they are both 4cc

On June 17 2012 10:53 bobbob wrote:
MBC has been dead since there wasn't a coffers in the format. Look at all the MBC decks from Torment era, when it was a real deck. It had both Innocent Blood and Chainer's Edict to handle low manacost dudes (not to mention the flashback). Mutilate was a very effective wrath spell. Mind Sludge was a discard your hand. Nantuko Shade with Coffers could easily kill you in a single swing lategame. Coffers made Diabolic Tutor an effective tool to answer or find threats.

Post board, it had Mesmeric Fiend to disrupt more combo oriented decks of the time (Wake, for example), Braids to handle slow decks by grinding them out,

Obliterator is not Nantuko Shade because it is a 4 turn clock. There is no discard your hand spell. Liliana of the Veil doesn't come close. She is not a Chainer's Edict either. There is no single black removal spell. The tools for MBC just are not around, and have not been around since Torment.

Monoblack aggro has never been amazing unless there was a seriously undercosted creature for its power (Phyrexian Negator)

Lashwrithe is not an aggro card, nor is Liliana. The current black aggro deck is Zombies.