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You already posted last beta that you didn't like it, did you expect it to change?
It's about 70% wow 30% other mmos, so yeah if you play wow you'll get a pretty big dose of deja vu. The talent system is nothing like the Guild Wars class/skill system though. I just like it because you aren't stuck in one role like most wow classes are, every class can fulfill 3 roles between tank/healer/dps/support.
DCUO had a cool combat system but otherwise it's a console game and pretty bad on PC imo. Planetside Next is coming out in March apparently, probably going to be the most original new MMO
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i just played the beta a little and it does seem fun, i might try it out.
are there any plans for TL europe users too get on any specific server so we can get together on release ?
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I've been playing the Beta now since beta 2, and loving it. It definitely is as floor says, 70% wow 30% other MMOs. From what I've seen though, they have managed to take what everyone loved about various other MMOs that have come out in the past few years and combined it in a WOW packaging.
I've been really really enjoying my rogue, this may be partially because I never like leveling alts in MMOs, so I always have 1 character I end up playing. With Rift, that one character offers so many different styles of play, so I can do whatever I feel in the mood for at the time.
The invasions are also a lot more fun then I thought they would be. The standard small invasions are there and interesting in their own right, but what I really enjoy are the zone wide invasions, where everyone in the zone bands around the defence points, fighting off wave after wave of enemies, and then once that's done, go out and kill the big boss. On PvP servers, this is as much a world PvP event as it is PvE. First, the invasions/boss will be fighting everything that isn't their faction, meaning they'll kill wildlife/opposing rift creatures etc, as well as the players/player factions, then throw in a 20-60 man group from each player faction fighting eachother for who gets the kill on the boss. As an example, a life invasion in the lvl 34ish zone I'm in right now, the boss was fighting her way through a camp of NPC bandits when the 30 of us showed up and began fighting her and the bandits running in from all sides, then 20 or so guardians show up and join in the fray. Realizing we didn't have much in the way of aoe heals, I swapped to my bard role and began just spamming aoe heals+buffs to keep everyone alive through the absolute chaos unfolding around me.
WoW I feel has become too mechanical and everybody doing the same standard things with no creativity or options. I feel with the massive number of options available in Rift, while there will be "good builds" or possibly "ideal builds" I think there will be a large amount of room for people to try out their own specs and see how they work.
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On February 16 2011 09:27 heishe wrote:
God this game is awful. It's almost 100% like WoW, only worse and with a little bit of Warhammer Online and Guild Wars added in (I get the feeling that the talent system is inspired by Guild Wars, but I can't say anything about that since I never played Guild Wars), and that sucks. Nothing against WoW or the other 2 games, but after 5 years or something that shit is simply boring.
I could really use something fresh, but sadly DC Universe Online isn't any better, according to reviews (despite having a refreshing combat system).
I agree tried the beta, so far not good at all, its a complete wow clone with terribad graphics and an even worse story. The part of gameplay they are trying to sell as original (rifts) are just public quests stolen from warhammer. If you like this game then you like WoW and you're deluding yourself and hurting yourself because you'd be much better off sticking with the refined game over the new unstable environment.
Story 0/10
Originality 0/10
Graphics 1/10
Gameplay 4/10
Balance 0/10
PVP 0/10
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That bad huh?
I normally try and avoid playing betas these days. Guess i'll check this one out though. Better than being dissapointed buying at launch.
Nvm got an email lol.
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Unfortunately Anon06 doesn't really have any more than a superficial point with regards to the quality of the game.
I've played a couple of nights in this round of the beta and have been more than satisfied with the experience. Granted on a personal level I'm at the age where I can't spend 6 hours every night grinding or farming so the fact that features like the rifts/invasions happen and are PQ style drop in/out is really appealing to me.
It's true that Rift has taken a lot of elements from other MMOs but I don't think anyone makes a secret of that fact, I personally think it's a well put together game so far and will likely be preordering it, even though I'm moving house and won't have internet for a couple of weeks :<.
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I played it for like 10-12 hours last weekend. I hated every second of it. It made me remember why I vowed to never go near WoW again. It looks like it is running in the same engine as WoW. The interface looks as identical as it can get. In fact, if I didn't know it was another game, I would have guessed that it was an expansion to WoW. I guess if you like WoW and want to play a sub par copy of it that adds absolutely nothing to the genre and embodies everything that is wrong with the genre then go right ahead.
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I don't really understand what people expect from new mmos. There really isn't some incredible, revolutionary game play style change that will come to the genre. It's going to be grindy. These games will be like WoW, and its silly to think otherwise when its the most successful mmo ever made. Why would anyone not incorporate a lot of the genre defining systems that WoW has when they are proven to work.
Hating a game because it uses a similar interface, it doesn't look good on your computer (it does on mine, it looks damn good) and it has quests seems pretty stupid to me.
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On February 18 2011 23:55 Norp wrote:
I don't really understand what people expect from new mmos. There really isn't some incredible, revolutionary game play style change that will come to the genre. It's going to be grindy. These games will be like WoW, and its silly to think otherwise when its the most successful mmo ever made. Why would anyone not incorporate a lot of the genre defining systems that WoW has when they are proven to work.
That's like saying that every FPS has to be set in a realistic modern environment, featuring terrorists/ insurgents. The game has to contain achivements and voice communication and fast paced action with fast respawns etc. Just because CoD happens to be the best selling FPS recently doesn't mean that that is the only way to make an FPS or that it would be of value to anyone to make another FPS just like it. You could make a game like Quake, Tribes, Battlefield, ARMA or even and MMOFPS like Planetside and it will be a completely different experience for the player.
When it comes to MMOs, just take a look at games like EVE and Darkfall. They are nothing like WoW in any way but are also very different from each other. There are thousands of directions you could take MMORPG development in. Currently most developers are stuck making the same game again and again. I don't like WoW at all but I won't say that it's necessarily a bad game. I can understand why some people might like it. I can't understand why anyone would want to have the same game made again though. There is so much room left unexplored in the genre.
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Yes, look at Dark fall. would you invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into developing a game with no ressurance of profit. Dark fall was trying to break the mold, it failed. No one will try again for some time.
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On February 19 2011 00:19 turamn wrote:
Yes, look at Dark fall. would you invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into developing a game with no ressurance of profit. Dark fall was trying to break the mold, it failed. No one will try again for some time.
Their servers are still up and running and they are still releasing patches. They didn't fail at all even if they didn't hit as big as EVE did. Of course it is more risky to take steps into unexplored territory. I'm not arguing out of a developer or publisher perspective. Of course publishers want to create the same old, same old and milk as much money as they can. I don't see how that is relevant from a gamers perspective though.
Gamers don't have to care about how much risk it took to make a game, they just have to play the game that they enjoy and want to support. They don't have to invest in the game in order to play it, more than a couple of dollars.
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On Darkfall, the only thing that I had heard of it was that it was incredibly difficult to play, covered in exploiters and hackers and incredibly buggy. I have no personal experience with the game, as I was following it heavily pre-release, but it was released and it became a huge pain to obtain a copy in the US, so I lost interest.
No, the players do not have to invest anything in it other than whatever subscription fee and time. It seems that the major issue most gamers are having with MMO's and the general way that they are being developed right now, is that they are just "copying".
Gamer's dont "have" to care about the risk involved in stepping too far out of the mold, but they should. You can't just expect a developer to drastically change the landscape of a genre on a whim. Baby steps are what is required. An amalgamation of every current idea, mash it up, refine it. When you have something new, mix it in slowly.
If you're fine taking the risk and you succeed, then great. If not, the only thing people learn is what not to do, and that's great. We need to learn what not to do, but at the same time, is the investment you're putting in worth learning that? The people playing the game need to be rational and understand that even if they want something new, it's not going to come overnight.
You're also not catering to the minority of the people who want x or y. WoW has something like 10 million players. If you, as a company, can get a 5% share of that, then you're probably going to turn a profit and succeed. Is there a better way to get that 5% than basically copying the game, putting it in a new sandbox basically, and adding some new bells and whistles? Probably not.
The only company that has the financial stability to push the envelope and innovate is Blizzard and they may or may not be doing that, depending on what direction they are going to go with project "titan".
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What are you talking about? EVE online already exists and is doing fine. Games like Ultima Online and Asheron's Call existed long before WoW and had a lot of more variance than MMOs today do and they also did fine. The MMO market grew a lot with WoW but it has never been as stale and uniform as it is today.
There is no reason why you would have to conform to the rules of how to make a "Wow-style MMO" just because you are making an MMO. Sure there will be some publishers who will want to steal away some of WoWs fame but that will never make you create the next big MMO. Taking baby steps away from WoW will not change anything. Taking a large step back to what MMOs used to be and having an open mind about what is possible is the only way to create something new and fresh that could ever gather a crowd as large as WoW again. If that is even what you want to do.
There is room for more than one MMO at a time and making an MMO for a niche market isn't a bad idea, especially with the dominance that WoW has. It might be a much better idea financially to try to reach out to the people who didn't like WoW or who got bored of WoW instead of trying to steal players from WoW. When people hate the direction that WoW has taken from the start then baby steps aren't going to solve anything.
Now I looked at it from the developers perspective even though I think that is rather irrelevant. It is you as a consumer that create the demand for the games. If you are happy with broken WoW-clones that add nothing, then that is what is going to be produced. If you support and buy new innovative games then more of them will be produced.
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I never said that they couldn't succeed. I am very familiar with Ultima Online and the other early generation MMO's. I would love nothing more than for some open world game like Ultima to resurface and rise to a high teir of popularity.
The demand for these games is small though, when compared to the demand for WoW-esque games. There is certainly room for more than one MMO, but the majority of the populous seems to want WoW clones, so that is all that will be produced.
The problem with getting back to those types of games lies in the fact that the culture of the MMO community has drastically been altered. The majority of the player base has it ingrained in their head that the they have to be directed what to do, at all times, and have a clear, linear goal that they can achieve. They are not used to setting their own goals or forging their own path, ala Ultima Online. The prospect of something like this scares the people who were brought up on WoW alone, and thusly, likely won't appeal to them.
They don't understand that there were more rewarding games at one point - or they just don't care, because they can get epic'd out and gain an elite status in World of Warcraft with far less effort.
The bottom line is, the big name publishers who have the resources to innovate, their goal is likely not to innovate. Their goal is to turn a profit.If they feel they can turn an profit by innovating, then they will. If not, expect more "clones". Blizzard didn't make World of Warcraft because they thought they had a great wonderful idea and wanted to share it with the universe, they wanted to make money.
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Now I actually agree with everything you are saying. It just seemed like you were defending and supporting these games earlier.
If you, as a company, can get a 5% share of that, then you're probably going to turn a profit and succeed. Is there a better way to get that 5% than basically copying the game, putting it in a new sandbox basically, and adding some new bells and whistles? Probably not.
The above quote is not a good reason for a gamer to support and buy said game. I don't think it should in any way save the games from criticism. If it is a bad game and it has been done before then it is still a bad game in my eyes even if it makes money.
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It's not a good reason to support a game, no. But my point was that if 100 million people enjoy game A and you clone it into game B, it doesn't nessicarily mean it will attract outside interest, just that it will garner interest from the people that already like game A.
If it's a bad game and it's being remade, then you have to question the decision making of the company involved. I suppose this also depends on one's definition of bad.
Let's not kid ourselves, World of Warcraft was, and to some, may still be a good game. I no longer enjoy it, but a bunch of people do. Does cloning it and adding some more flavor make it a good game again? It's going to be person to person. Will it make a profit, yeah, probably. Will it be successful, if your goal is to make money, probably, but again, depends on your definition of success.
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On February 18 2011 20:08 maJes wrote:
Unfortunately Anon06 doesn't really have any more than a superficial point with regards to the quality of the game.
I've played a couple of nights in this round of the beta and have been more than satisfied with the experience. Granted on a personal level I'm at the age where I can't spend 6 hours every night grinding or farming so the fact that features like the rifts/invasions happen and are PQ style drop in/out is really appealing to me.
My point is not superficial, I'm not upset that they copied wow. They copied it and made everything worse. It's crappier in every single way the attack animations don't even work properly. The reason it seems superficial is because if I actually took the time to list every flaw it would take all day. Here I'll list some. PvP has no balance and no collision detection. When participating in a rift the only way to reach gold participation for each round is to spam your quickest spell/ability ONLY, this means you are not rewarded for proper healing or doing actual dps. Like I said before if you pay for this thing enjoy you're vastly inferior product and you'll probably stop playing it a month after release. BTW the rifts spawn in the same locations with the exact same mobs (oh so innovative) the only thing that changes is the amount rifts active by how many players in the zone which doesn't matter because the rifts are retardedly easy to take down. Playing this game felt like playing the first MMO ever made, like if the technology just came into existence and they're still working it out. If I could describe rift in one word it would be: Knockoff: An imitation of something, particularly a well-known product, usually lower in quality and price than the original
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Not trying to defend anything, but I'm pretty sure WoW's attack animations are still flawed as well.
WoW has no collission detection, either.
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On February 19 2011 03:36 Anon06 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2011 20:08 maJes wrote:
Unfortunately Anon06 doesn't really have any more than a superficial point with regards to the quality of the game.
I've played a couple of nights in this round of the beta and have been more than satisfied with the experience. Granted on a personal level I'm at the age where I can't spend 6 hours every night grinding or farming so the fact that features like the rifts/invasions happen and are PQ style drop in/out is really appealing to me.
My point is not superficial, I'm not upset that they copied wow. They copied it and made everything worse. It's crappier in every single way the attack animations don't even work properly. The reason it seems superficial is because if I actually took the time to list every flaw it would take all day. Here I'll list some. PvP has no balance and no collision detection. When participating in a rift the only way to reach gold participation for each round is to spam your quickest spell/ability ONLY, this means you are not rewarded for proper healing or doing actual dps. Like I said before if you pay for this thing enjoy you're vastly inferior product and you'll probably stop playing it a month after release. BTW the rifts spawn in the same locations with the exact same mobs (oh so innovative) the only thing that changes is the amount rifts active by how many players in the zone which doesn't matter because the rifts are retardedly easy to take down. Playing this game felt like playing the first MMO ever made, like if the technology just came into existence and they're still working it out. If I could describe rift in one word it would be: Knockoff: An imitation of something, particularly a well-known product, usually lower in quality and price than the original
This isn't really true at all. While the Rift contribution is a little flawed right now it's not in the way you are speaking. The best way to max contribution is to spam group heals even if people are full health, which is entirely contrary to what you just said, which leads me to believe you don't really know what you are talking about. Also Rift events and the bosses vary by zone, for instance you get newbie stuff in the 10-20 but they become increasingly harder with different abilities as you progress in the zones.
As far as pvp balance, are 10-19 battlegrounds balanced in wow? Anyone who would even try to draw any balance conclusions from them would be called an idiot, yet you are attempting to do the same to Rift. I haven't done much PVP at all, but I've heard people complain that Necro and warlocks are op (mage) every cleric soul is op, bards and ranged rogues are op, every warrior soul is op. So basically everything is overpowered if you listen to chat.
On animations, I certainly haven't seen every classes or races, but for example mages have different cast animations if you are using a one handed weapon or a staff. Things like that are subtle and may go unnoticed, but compare it to wow where theres one animation and your weapons are magically holstered when you cast even if they were in your hands. Yeah, more characters in wow do backflips etc in melee but they all typically have one animation.
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Played the beta for awhile, and yes it's terrible. Like WoW, without the blizzard touche.
MMORPGS really needs to find another model and do something original and unique, just like EVE. All these WoW clones (there are way too many) are pure garbage.
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EPT
