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On March 21 2013 16:52 Cascade wrote:Since bots took over bnet. Just wait until you find something with pickup raidus AND gold find.  Have sold belts and pants with essentially just gold find, pickup and decent dex roll (no vit, AR, armour, nothing...) for several Ms.
Didn't bots take over bnet on release date? I don't recall prices for pickup radius to be this high. Or maybe I just never paid attention before.
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dunno, I always valued pickup radius pretty high. I never could make myself pick up gold by running over it directly, especially before the base pickup radius buff, it's incredibly annoying.
Once you get high end gear (enough AR, CC, CD, AS, main stat, vit, %life, armor), the only worthwile "complementary" affix is pickup radius. Even more so with the playstyle at MP 10 where you ignore elites (unless they are super easy to kill and/or your DPS is godly) and kill white mobs, having 10-15y pickup radius makes stuff really really easy since you pick up health globes all around you and heal all the time. It basically cuts the need to have 5+ LS to like 2.5+ LS to play comfortably, most of the time.
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i despise blizzard for what they did to d3. They don't see their players as humans but more like mindless clicking drones making them money. I don't mind being that but atleast make a decent game and keep a sense of "im playing as a human with other humans". And I'm not even talking about the botting thing. Whenever I enter the game I just feel like a robot. I dont wanna be there.
I miss blizz north soooooooo fucking much. No shit blizz has been making bad games. Thanks to browder sc2 still stands. Keep on it blizz. i will sacrifice my unhappines for your happiness
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I don't see a realistic reason for all the hate & bashing d3 as a "bad" or "worse than d2" game. What was so mindful in pindle/baal runs?
TBH, d3 is just a "development cycle" away from amazing. The most important part - the combat feeling - is incredibly well made. The game is FUN to play. All the changes after release (paragon levels, monster power, legendary improvements) were huge steps in the right direction, and I honestly feel that the next few patches (or, if we're unlucky, the expansion) will push it inside the AWESOMEAMAZING bubble.
Essentially, the game is what diablo, in it's core, is about: an overwhelmingly huge farmfest. The only thing changed is the graphics/combat mechanics and the skill system. And even though the skills are nowhere near perfect/balanced, I absolutely love the d3 skill system.
The two biggest problems, imo, are the farming with current itemization problem, and the farming with static content problem. The latter is much harder to fix, and we probably won't see a fix unless the development team starts treading into MMO territory (although, in a way they already did with the AH), the other is fixable and I expect it to be fixed in the next few months or so.
And the other thing is, we've all grown old, the game market has evolved and so have our expectations. Honestly, I'm surprised that d3 is as true to to ARGP genre as it is, and consider it a huge achievment in this day and age.
On a side note, has everyone forgotten how bad litteraly every blizz games was pre-expansion compared to post-expansion? Honestly, I consider every game they make to be in a sort of payed-beta test phase for like 3 years or something. It will evolve from d3 now to d3 amazing to d3 incredible, i'm sure.
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they just need to understand that they can make money and have a soul in the game at the same time
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On March 22 2013 07:03 leser wrote:
On a side note, has everyone forgotten how bad litteraly every blizz games was pre-expansion compared to post-expansion? Honestly, I consider every game they make to be in a sort of payed-beta test phase for like 3 years or something. It will evolve from d3 now to d3 amazing to d3 incredible, i'm sure.
People keep saying this, but completely ignore that as bad as D3 and SC were compared to the expansions, they were still far-and-away better than all the competition. No ARPG was on par with the original D3, no RTS was on par with the original SC. The expansions just made two revolutionary games a lot better.
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Definitely.
Sure, SC was unbalanced and subject to more than it's fair share of bugs; but what else was there at the time? C&C? Total Annihilation? I liked those games; but your control over your base / army were really lacking compared to SC (which is erally saying something). Plus those games didn't really demonstrate interesting unit interactions (though I could be wrong as I didn't play either very heavily) just blob on blob combat.
As for D2... it was really something else when it came out, very fluid, engaging story and probably the best fmv at the time. It's biggest competitor IIRC was Dungeon Siege; which really looked like Ultima stripped down to just dungeon crawling imo.
I think SC2 is more revolutionary than people give it credit for; RTSs are still a niche genre and yet SC2 is *huge* globally. And it's been out long enough that you can't just credit it to hype.
D3 though... I mean I still love it and find it fun; but I can't really say it's measured up to Blizzard's standards.
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On March 22 2013 08:25 Wuster wrote:
Definitely.
Sure, SC was unbalanced and subject to more than it's fair share of bugs; but what else was there at the time? C&C? Total Annihilation? I liked those games; but your control over your base / army were really lacking compared to SC (which is erally saying something). Plus those games didn't really demonstrate interesting unit interactions (though I could be wrong as I didn't play either very heavily) just blob on blob combat.
As for D2... it was really something else when it came out, very fluid, engaging story and probably the best fmv at the time. It's biggest competitor IIRC was Dungeon Siege; which really looked like Ultima stripped down to just dungeon crawling imo.
I think SC2 is more revolutionary than people give it credit for; RTSs are still a niche genre and yet SC2 is *huge* globally. And it's been out long enough that you can't just credit it to hype.
D3 though... I mean I still love it and find it fun; but I can't really say it's measured up to Blizzard's standards.
Hasn't that been the knock on SC2 though? I haven't played it in a long time, but that was one of the biggest criticisms (and rightly so imo). Has HotS changed this?
I mean, I hope D3 turns out to be a good game, but it just feels like it is rotten at the core. Not sure what they could do to turn it around.
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That it didn't change anything? That's what I mean just look at what it's done for eSports, specifically MLG.
That's not really a gameplay thing of course; but RTS as a genre has been kinda dormant; so you could say it's lifted it back to prominence again too.
Or did you mean something else?
I should note that I like D3; I played it a ton and still play it from time to time. Looks like they're really serious about tweaking the game too; so hopefully it does improve.
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On March 22 2013 09:15 Wuster wrote:
That it didn't change anything? That's what I mean just look at what it's done for eSports, specifically MLG.
That's not really a gameplay thing of course; but RTS as a genre has been kinda dormant; so you could say it's lifted it back to prominence again too.
Or did you mean something else?
I should note that I like D3; I played it a ton and still play it from time to time. Looks like they're really serious about tweaking the game too; so hopefully it does improve.
The biggest thing for me is the fact that they continue to add new stuff to D3, makes it nice when you return after a break
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On March 22 2013 09:15 Wuster wrote:
That it didn't change anything? That's what I mean just look at what it's done for eSports, specifically MLG.
That's not really a gameplay thing of course; but RTS as a genre has been kinda dormant; so you could say it's lifted it back to prominence again too.
Or did you mean something else?
I should note that I like D3; I played it a ton and still play it from time to time. Looks like they're really serious about tweaking the game too; so hopefully it does improve.
Sorry, was referring to the bolded part (blob v blob combat). An oversimplification perhaps, but in comparison to BW certainly a fair criticism I think.
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Oh gotcha.
When I played C&C I couldn't even tell what was going on unit-comp wise after a certain army size. Obviously there was more going on than that (since I sucked); but it certainly didn't seem like unit-comp mattered for much. Plus that was more a dig at the graphics than gameplay (the feel of those games just seemed so much more distant than SC if that makes sense).
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On March 22 2013 09:08 screamingpalm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2013 08:25 Wuster wrote:
Definitely.
Sure, SC was unbalanced and subject to more than it's fair share of bugs; but what else was there at the time? C&C? Total Annihilation? I liked those games; but your control over your base / army were really lacking compared to SC (which is erally saying something). Plus those games didn't really demonstrate interesting unit interactions (though I could be wrong as I didn't play either very heavily) just blob on blob combat.
As for D2... it was really something else when it came out, very fluid, engaging story and probably the best fmv at the time. It's biggest competitor IIRC was Dungeon Siege; which really looked like Ultima stripped down to just dungeon crawling imo.
I think SC2 is more revolutionary than people give it credit for; RTSs are still a niche genre and yet SC2 is *huge* globally. And it's been out long enough that you can't just credit it to hype.
D3 though... I mean I still love it and find it fun; but I can't really say it's measured up to Blizzard's standards. Hasn't that been the knock on SC2 though? I haven't played it in a long time, but that was one of the biggest criticisms (and rightly so imo). Has HotS changed this? I mean, I hope D3 turns out to be a good game, but it just feels like it is rotten at the core. Not sure what they could do to turn it around.
If you've never played games like C&C or Dawn of War, you haven't seen what actual blob on blob combat looks like. Control groups essentially move in formations (AKA, squares), unit collision is basically non-existent, so you really just have armies mushing into other armies with gunfire going off.
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On March 22 2013 09:25 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2013 09:08 screamingpalm wrote:On March 22 2013 08:25 Wuster wrote:
Definitely.
Sure, SC was unbalanced and subject to more than it's fair share of bugs; but what else was there at the time? C&C? Total Annihilation? I liked those games; but your control over your base / army were really lacking compared to SC (which is erally saying something). Plus those games didn't really demonstrate interesting unit interactions (though I could be wrong as I didn't play either very heavily) just blob on blob combat.
As for D2... it was really something else when it came out, very fluid, engaging story and probably the best fmv at the time. It's biggest competitor IIRC was Dungeon Siege; which really looked like Ultima stripped down to just dungeon crawling imo.
I think SC2 is more revolutionary than people give it credit for; RTSs are still a niche genre and yet SC2 is *huge* globally. And it's been out long enough that you can't just credit it to hype.
D3 though... I mean I still love it and find it fun; but I can't really say it's measured up to Blizzard's standards. Hasn't that been the knock on SC2 though? I haven't played it in a long time, but that was one of the biggest criticisms (and rightly so imo). Has HotS changed this? I mean, I hope D3 turns out to be a good game, but it just feels like it is rotten at the core. Not sure what they could do to turn it around. If you've never played games like C&C or Dawn of War, you haven't seen what actual blob on blob combat looks like. Control groups essentially move in formations (AKA, squares), unit collision is basically non-existent, so you really just have armies mushing into other armies with gunfire going off.
Heh never did, and never will now that I know... thx. :D
The last RTS that I thoroughly enjoyed as far as tactical/micro, was vanilla CoH. Unfortunately it didn't last long since Opposing Fronts destroyed many of the great mechanics and also turned into more of a blob v blob with the way the new factions worked.
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I don't understand how people still play this game, do you actually enjoy it or just play it to make money? I haven't logged in for about 8 months and sitting on 130 mil gold, but no idea what to do with it. I guess I'm waiting for 1.1, and if its meh ill just set up a bot and become another statistic.
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On March 22 2013 10:51 Assault_1 wrote:
I don't understand how people still play this game, do you actually enjoy it or just play it to make money? I haven't logged in for about 8 months and sitting on 130 mil gold, but no idea what to do with it. I guess I'm waiting for 1.1, and if its meh ill just set up a bot and become another statistic.
I enjoy playing it with friends. Why? because collecting gear together and trying to kill Uber bosses are, actually fun. I had fun when I went on the journey to kill inferno diablo for the first time as well. Farming alone? not that fun anymore, it have been fun every time they have added something
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On March 22 2013 11:00 DODswe4 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2013 10:51 Assault_1 wrote:
I don't understand how people still play this game, do you actually enjoy it or just play it to make money? I haven't logged in for about 8 months and sitting on 130 mil gold, but no idea what to do with it. I guess I'm waiting for 1.1, and if its meh ill just set up a bot and become another statistic. I enjoy playing it with friends. Why? because collecting gear together and trying to kill Uber bosses are, actually fun. I had fun when I went on the journey to kill inferno diablo for the first time as well. Farming alone? not that fun anymore, it have been fun every time they have added something
Sadly, all of my friends quit this game after a few months. I'm pretty sure the only reason I played it so long was because I got lucky with drops (and one really good auction snipe) so I could afford gear to do "cool" stuff with.
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On March 22 2013 07:03 leser wrote:
I don't see a realistic reason for all the hate & bashing d3 as a "bad" or "worse than d2" game. What was so mindful in pindle/baal runs?
TBH, d3 is just a "development cycle" away from amazing. The most important part - the combat feeling - is incredibly well made. The game is FUN to play. All the changes after release (paragon levels, monster power, legendary improvements) were huge steps in the right direction, and I honestly feel that the next few patches (or, if we're unlucky, the expansion) will push it inside the AWESOMEAMAZING bubble.
Essentially, the game is what diablo, in it's core, is about: an overwhelmingly huge farmfest. The only thing changed is the graphics/combat mechanics and the skill system. And even though the skills are nowhere near perfect/balanced, I absolutely love the d3 skill system.
The two biggest problems, imo, are the farming with current itemization problem, and the farming with static content problem. The latter is much harder to fix, and we probably won't see a fix unless the development team starts treading into MMO territory (although, in a way they already did with the AH), the other is fixable and I expect it to be fixed in the next few months or so.
And the other thing is, we've all grown old, the game market has evolved and so have our expectations. Honestly, I'm surprised that d3 is as true to to ARGP genre as it is, and consider it a huge achievment in this day and age.
On a side note, has everyone forgotten how bad litteraly every blizz games was pre-expansion compared to post-expansion? Honestly, I consider every game they make to be in a sort of payed-beta test phase for like 3 years or something. It will evolve from d3 now to d3 amazing to d3 incredible, i'm sure.
The combat feeling is very well done, granted. The things the game does right ends there though, at least for me.
The reasons I played D2 and still play it occasionally to this day (so no im not looking at it through rose goggles as every d3 fanboy and employee loves to tell me.) Are non existent in this game.
1) Loot - No, killing monsters and seeing a sea of (bad) yellow items does not make even make a passable attempt at emulating a core aspect of ARPG's. I also enjoyed trading and still did it with my friends until all 13 of them stopped playing within a fortnight of buying the game. AH isn't too bad and I understand their decision to include the RMAH, I just wish the rest of the game wasn't abysmal.
2) Social Aspect - To be fair this isn't entirely D3's fault and I would say more attributed to Battlenet 0.2 but when all the non bots don't want to group up because it gets in their way of the rat race towards their next paycheck it kinda kills the social scene.
3) Building Characters - None to be seen in this game, don't mention gear choices or runes because this has less customisation than the sc2 campaign. To all the people saying "buuut d2 wasn't THAT much better" if we're talking about stats and skills alone then yes, I would actually agree with you but there is something that sequels released 10 years later are supposed to do - IMPROVE on the game not take a step backwards from an already mediocre system.
4) Atmosphere - There is plenty of gore don't get me wrong but the atmosphere itself isn't forboding at all. Reminds of of itchy and scratchy and even that did a better job. This isn't helped by the fact that mobs come in neat little packs few and far between, I feel like im clearing molten core in vanilla wow again except im doing it solo this time.
5) PKKing. I get it some people can't handle being killed but not giving the ability to at least turn it on for those of us that aren't complete bitches and enjoy some danger now and then would be nice.
6) Character Progression, there is none. I honestly felt more powerful as a level 5-6 than I did at max level, what the shit.
So yes, if the only thing you care about in ARPG is the A then this game delivers. Otherwise I don't see how you could possibly call this an even passable game
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On March 22 2013 03:03 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 16:52 Cascade wrote:Since bots took over bnet. Just wait until you find something with pickup raidus AND gold find. Have sold belts and pants with essentially just gold find, pickup and decent dex roll (no vit, AR, armour, nothing...) for several Ms. Didn't bots take over bnet on release date? I don't recall prices for pickup radius to be this high. Or maybe I just never paid attention before.
On March 22 2013 04:44 leser wrote:
dunno, I always valued pickup radius pretty high. I never could make myself pick up gold by running over it directly, especially before the base pickup radius buff, it's incredibly annoying.
Once you get high end gear (enough AR, CC, CD, AS, main stat, vit, %life, armor), the only worthwile "complementary" affix is pickup radius. Even more so with the playstyle at MP 10 where you ignore elites (unless they are super easy to kill and/or your DPS is godly) and kill white mobs, having 10-15y pickup radius makes stuff really really easy since you pick up health globes all around you and heal all the time. It basically cuts the need to have 5+ LS to like 2.5+ LS to play comfortably, most of the time.
In my experience, it is not that valuable for high end gear. That is, on an item that is otherwise worth 50M, pickup will not push it that much higher (maybe 60M or 70M with some luck), and gold find even less. A botter just isn't intersted in spending that kind of money to equip his bots. Around 5M per piece is enough for them (or that is what these pieces of gear go (or at least went) for...). So pickup radius and GF can push a sub 100k up to few Ms, but will not push 50M up to astronomic.
I don't think pickup is very valuable for non-bots. I have picked up around 30M gold, while I have sold items for many hundreds of M. So around 10% of your income is from gold on the ground. Ask yourself this: if you just run straight through you will pick up some extra gold with pickup radius. How long will you have to play before you get back the extra money you spent on getting pickup on your gear?
From that you arrive at the conclusion that it can be useful for low-level gear to get some pickup (say going up from 500k to 1M), as you will get the money back pretty fast, but spending an extra 10M wil not pay back until quite a bit later.
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Hah my favorite part of C&C that I liked over SC was the fact that you could run infantry over with a tank. If there were somehow an upgrade to an Ultralisk that let me squish marines and zealots, that would be my goal every game.
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EPT
