Diablo III General Discussion - Page 654

On July 04 2012 04:40 Obvious.660 wrote:

There is no problem with MF. Working as intended at this point. The only problem is the entitlement-people (I hesitate to call them children, they are of all ages) who feel it is an exploit (the same way cheese is an exploit, if you catch my meaning.)

They haven't learned it's simpler to shut up and play or get out.

On July 04 2012 05:25 kuresuti wrote:


If MF hadn't been there from the beginning, this wouldn't have been a problem. MF is a flawed concept because it's basically loot designed to get you better loot. Why not give the player the better loot immediately instead? You could argue that it's some sort of risk/reward system, but the way people play where it matters (higher levels), it becomes pretty much mandatory. Why would anyone want to gimp themselves in the loot race willingly by not wearing MF gear?

On July 04 2012 05:25 kuresuti wrote:


If MF hadn't been there from the beginning, this wouldn't have been a problem. MF is a flawed concept because it's basically loot designed to get you better loot. Why not give the player the better loot immediately instead? You could argue that it's some sort of risk/reward system, but the way people play where it matters (higher levels), it becomes pretty much mandatory. Why would anyone want to gimp themselves in the loot race willingly by not wearing MF gear?

On July 04 2012 05:35 Charger wrote:


Why is loot designed to give you better (really more) loot flawed?

I'm not sure what you man about the giving players better loot immediately. Should finding good items be even easier than it is now....?

That last part of your argument is exactly why I think MF is incredibly fun. And I mean running REAL mf, like dps, vit, mf,- no swapping. Maybe you start an act with 250% mf and you get rolled. You go scale it back and you can faceroll through at 50% or struggle but make it at 150%. Suddenly, you find a huge weapon upgrade. Now you can start adding more mf again to get back to where you want to be. I love this so much, the more decisions I have to make the better.

On July 03 2012 18:08 javy925 wrote:


what skill build?

On July 04 2012 05:58 kuresuti wrote:


What I mean about the better loot part is, why is the middleman (mf gear) even there? They could make droprates one fourth of what they are now for all I care, I just find the middleman unnecessary.

The thing is I don't really see the choice in the matter because I simply have to have MF. It's just too good to ignore so it isn't really a choice at all. It's false complexity. Since it's now mandatory (in my opinion), it shouldn't have to be a choice at all. Diablo also never changes, you always know what to expect etc. so you don't really need to choose ever. (unlike Icehockey for example, when sometimes losing the goalie for an extra player is good, or BW where a Queen has application in rare cases).

Don't flip out on me now but I think it's unnecessarily confusing. I am not saying they should make the game more casual, just saying that I don't think magic find is the best design.

On July 03 2012 18:22 crappen wrote:


You know, if they made D3 more social, it would be awesome even after you beaten diablo on inferno. Better chat functions, and a much more userfriendly AH would go a long way, considering I feel AH is pretty much THE endgame.
New builds and gearing towards it might freshen your experience up a bit. Or a new alt that your barb can farm some nice startgear too. There are also builds-gear that focus more on groupplay as well.

On July 04 2012 06:11 Charger wrote:


Not gonna flip out, I enjoy having civil discussions with people who share different views than I do.

Of course mf is great and you should feel like you need it. You should be scratching and clawing to add just a little bit more if you can always. However, it comes at a cost like in my example. Just cause I want to farm act 4 with 250% mf doesn't mean I can or I should be able to, at least not with a ton of work getting there. I may have to drop it down some, maybe to a 100%, or 90% to farm efficiently in the act. I think this is a good thing. I still have a choice to make, do I farm lower acts with lower drop rates with higher mf or do I farm higher acts with lower mf with better drop rates?

Since item hunting is what the latter stages of Diablo is all about I think it's cool to find a stat that effects that. At the same time I wouldn't cry if they removed mf IF they added more things to the game. At this point I already have to make so few decisions that taking perhaps the biggest late game decision out will kill the game.

On July 04 2012 06:41 kuresuti wrote:


You could look at it this way. Let's assume that the endgame is farming the best gear possible as fast as possible (for whatever reason you'd want, pvp etc.), one would conclude that you'd have to farm Act 4 with as much MF as possible. MF scales way harder than other stats in the farming context. If you have 200 mf from gear, gear without it won't make you kill stuff 3 times faster. It would be faster but not that much faster (the way it is now at least). So one would come to the conclusion that the optimal way to play is to have 200 mf.

Now we have a stat, that doesn't really do anything for you. It doesn't increase your hp so you can play more aggressive, it doesn't make you faster so you can kite or anything of that nature. It's just there to make more stuff find your pockets and you'd be stupid not to have it. Wouldn't it be better to just not have it in the equation at all, so you could focus on building your character and refining your strategy through gear?

You could compare it to mining minerals to build more scvs to mine even more minerals, but unlike Starcraft, Diablo doesn't end and doesn't have a timelimit. Without ladder this becomes even more apparent. The merits of mf as powerboosting-booster kinda disappears in Diablo 3 imo.

I didn't like it in D2 either by the way, but it didn't really get in the way since most of the really good gear you'd want to wear for power had it as a bonus.

On July 04 2012 07:01 Charger wrote:


My point was about making decisions in an already incredibly limited decision making game. MF is a huge deal, if you don't have it when you farm you are missing out. It's important that I work towards finagling every bit of mf into my setup as I can afford. It's about the journey to the end making decisions the whole way.

If right now mf was just gone, never existed and nothing replaced it I wouldn't be playing at all. I would have stopped weeks ago. I played a monk as my 2nd char and beat inferno last week. It wasn't that hard and it wasn't that fun because I had to make almost no decisions the whole time. I used my WD to farm with mf so I didn't care about mf. I got the stats I needed on my gear, used a good build I found online that that was all she wrote. At least if I wanted to farm with my monk in act4 I would have to start trading out gear slowly and working on making more decisions about gear.

Basically I just need some sort of decision to make and all I got is mf. Take that away and I have nothing to be engaged with.

On July 04 2012 05:25 kuresuti wrote:


If MF hadn't been there from the beginning, this wouldn't have been a problem. MF is a flawed concept because it's basically loot designed to get you better loot. Why not give the player the better loot immediately instead? You could argue that it's some sort of risk/reward system, but the way people play where it matters (higher levels), it becomes pretty much mandatory. Why would anyone want to gimp themselves in the loot race willingly by not wearing MF gear?

On July 04 2012 07:12 kuresuti wrote:


It seems like you are saying that it isn't a choice at all, since I am missing out if I don't use it. That's pretty much what I've been saying.

Anyway Diablo 3 has some problems in the item department and removing mf today might not be the best decision. I've just been arguing the "what's inherently wrong with mf?" part. At some point I wish they would remove it, but not before fixing bigger problems (which is a completely different topic).

Let's agree to disagree and have some sleep

We recognize that the item hunt is just not enough for a long-term sustainable end-game. There are still tons of people playing every day and week, and playing a lot, but eventually they’re going to run out of stuff to do (if they haven’t already). Killing enemies and finding items is a lot of fun, and we think we have a lot of the systems surrounding that right, or at least on the right path with a few corrections and tweaks. But honestly Diablo III is not World of Warcraft. We aren’t going to be able to pump out tons of new systems and content every couple months. There needs to be something else that keeps people engaged, and we know it’s not there right now.
We’re working toward 1.0.4, which we’re really trying to pack with as many fixes and changes we can to help you guys out (and we’ll have a bunch of articles posted with all the details as we get closer), and we’re of course working on 1.1 with PvP arenas. I think both those patches will do a lot to give people things to do, and get them excited about playing, but they’re not going to be a real end-game solution, at least not what we would expect out of a proper end-game. We have some ideas for progression systems, but honestly it’s a huge feature if we want to try to do it right, and not something we could envision being possible until well after 1.1 which it itself still a ways out.

…and Wyatt expressed specifically that giving players some sort of end-game that doesn’t involve grinding areas or bosses is something that keeps him up at night

Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose, but we believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while. That didn’t turn out to be true, and we recognize that.

On July 04 2012 14:36 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Today is the first time I am truly mad at this game.

I quit. I liked the game, but I quit. Why am I mad?

I want to sell my gear. I cannot. Why?

To link your battlenet to a paypal, you need a fucking MOBILE DATA PLAN. Why? WHYYYYYY?

I have a prepaid phone. I have used one for years. But blizzard will not accept VoIP or Google Voice.

So now I have to ask a friend or my parents to use their phones. It's not a huge deal, but it's still retardedly inconvenient and unnecessary.