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On August 08 2011 07:48 Dapper_Cad wrote:
Banning out of AH trades will result in exactly what happens in WoW currently with the cross faction auction houses. You want to give someone an item? You tell them you are putting it on the AH for 1gold, they instantly buy it. You want to trade items? Do the same thing both ways. The only result of this will be that you'll create more ways for people to cheat others by ninjaing these exchanges out from under people.
In a world with NO way to sell in-game goods for real world cash the value of in-game labour increases as people can't play to make real world money so people can't play for anything else than to gear up their characters and there is MUCH less insentive to farm. However that world doesn't exist and Blizzards switch to RMAH is an acknowledgement of this. The RMAH will mean labour in the game is worth much less in in-game terms as Gold farmers from countries with low wages work frantically to increase the efficiency of their farming.
The thing that annoys me is that there will be no way to tell the difference someone who only uses in-game gold from someone who uses cash. While I'd really love to know who was a baller and who was a cash-fag there is no sensible way to do it. Adding some kind of "I've spent cash" flag wouldn't work as you would have to give the flag the instant a character traded or was sent anything because that item might have been bought for cash or bought with gold bought for cash. The only way to do this effectively would be have "No-cash-hardcore" characters who could never trade with other characters that weren't "No-cash-hardcore" characters. If this did actually happen you would get 3rd party sites who traded real money for "No-cash-hardcore" items so you're back to square 1.
Basically it's a giant shit sandwich and we all godda take a bite. The day this situation gets fixed is the day workers around the world earn higher wages, because if it costs $10 an hour to hire a chinese gold farmer then that how much an in game hour is worth. Interestingly this is why standards of living in the west are crashing and will continue to crash over the next few decades. It just takes longer to move physical infrastructure to india/china/haiti/whereever.
good points everywhere. I think someone mentioned earlier that hardcore bars you from RM items, but I didnt see a source. But I hadnt thought about how a this could effect the hardcore community.
Buying items in hardcore would completely defeat the purpose imo.
Edit- on second thought, it would be pretty hilarious if someone spent money to deck out their hardcore character and lost it.
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On August 08 2011 07:48 Dapper_Cad wrote:
Banning out of AH trades will result in exactly what happens in WoW currently with the cross faction auction houses. You want to give someone an item? You tell them you are putting it on the AH for 1gold, they instantly buy it. You want to trade items? Do the same thing both ways. The only result of this will be that you'll create more ways for people to cheat others by ninjaing these exchanges out from under people.
This is why people who didn't play D2 shouldn't be posting/nerd raging. Not only would that not happen since there's no Tanaris AH to do that in, all you have to do to trade an item is drop it on the ground.
On August 08 2011 07:48 Dapper_Cad wrote:
In a world with NO way to sell in-game goods for real world cash the value of in-game labour increases as people can't play to make real world money so people can't play for anything else than to gear up their characters and there is MUCH less insentive to farm. However that world doesn't exist and Blizzards switch to RMAH is an acknowledgement of this. The RMAH will mean labour in the game is worth much less in in-game terms as Gold farmers from countries with low wages work frantically to increase the efficiency of their farming.
You even recognize yourself that making this point is useless, because if blizz didn't have it, someone else would. Very nonsensical of you to make a bad point and then explain why that point is bad lol.
On August 08 2011 07:48 Dapper_Cad wrote:
The thing that annoys me is that there will be no way to tell the difference someone who only uses in-game gold from someone who uses cash. While I'd really love to know who was a baller and who was a cash-fag there is no sensible way to do it. Adding some kind of "I've spent cash" flag wouldn't work as you would have to give the flag the instant a character traded or was sent anything because that item might have been bought for cash or bought with gold bought for cash. The only way to do this effectively would be have "No-cash-hardcore" characters who could never trade with other characters that weren't "No-cash-hardcore" characters. If this did actually happen you would get 3rd party sites who traded real money for "No-cash-hardcore" items so you're back to square 1.
You can't tell in D2 either, no wonder that game did so poorly.
On August 08 2011 07:48 Dapper_Cad wrote:
Basically it's a giant shit sandwich and we all godda take a bite. The day this situation gets fixed is the day workers around the world earn higher wages, because if it costs $10 an hour to hire a chinese gold farmer then that how much an in game hour is worth. Interestingly this is why standards of living in the west are crashing and will continue to crash over the next few decades. It just takes longer to move physical infrastructure to india/china/haiti/whereever.
You think chinese gold farmers work for 10 dollars an hour? I'm sure you know much about the physical infrastructure.
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On August 08 2011 08:15 PassiveAce wrote:
I think someone mentioned earlier that hardcore bars you from RM items, but I didnt see a source. But I hadnt thought about how a this could effect the hardcore community.
If you haven't read enough to know that they aren't having a hardcore RMAH (pretty much the first thing said in all interviews) you should do a little less posting.
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Diablo 2 = 3rd party sights for the same purpose of the RMAH it was unsafe and "illegal" Blizzard decided to take a piece of the pie and offer it as a SAFE and SECURE way to trade items to players you have no interest in ever seeing/speaking with. what makes me irritable is the fact that every one bitching about the RMAH had fun with Diablo 2 and never even knew about web pages like d2jsp and the few who did know about them probably didn't care.... But man Diablo 3 comes out and Blizzard is like ok we know a lot of people resorted to unsafe methods of trading items and WE KNOW there is no way to stop the players from doing this in D3 so let us give them a safe place to do it... Now 30-40% of the Diablo community is like OMG fuck you blizzard for making my game experience shit... seriously please stop whining and use your brain... whether or not blizzard put this in trading items for real money WOULD still happen and if you think that it wont you are ignorant of how this world YOU live in works.
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On August 08 2011 08:23 NotJack wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 08:15 PassiveAce wrote:
I think someone mentioned earlier that hardcore bars you from RM items, but I didnt see a source. But I hadnt thought about how a this could effect the hardcore community.
If you haven't read enough to know that they aren't having a hardcore RMAH (pretty much the first thing said in all interviews) you should do a little less posting.
lol? I was trying to inform him that there is no hardcore RMAH
why are you a dick? maybe you should do a little more reading.
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On August 08 2011 08:27 PassiveAce wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 08:23 NotJack wrote:On August 08 2011 08:15 PassiveAce wrote:
I think someone mentioned earlier that hardcore bars you from RM items, but I didnt see a source. But I hadnt thought about how a this could effect the hardcore community.
If you haven't read enough to know that they aren't having a hardcore RMAH (pretty much the first thing said in all interviews) you should do a little less posting. lol? I was trying to inform him that there is no hardcore RMAH why are you a dick? maybe you should do a little more reading.
You said "but I didn't see a source". People on TL used to think thoroughly before they made posts, that's how it should be.
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On August 08 2011 08:15 PassiveAce wrote:
Buying items in hardcore would completely defeat the purpose imo.
Edit- on second thought, it would be pretty hilarious if someone spent money to deck out their hardcore character and lost it.
It's going to happen through third party sites, I guarantee it. I bet prices for high-level Hardcore items will be much, much higher, too.
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On August 08 2011 08:51 acker wrote:
It's going to happen through third party sites, I guarantee it. I bet prices for high-level Hardcore items will be much, much higher, too.
Judging from my experiences from Diablo 2, this will not be the case. There might very well be third party shops that sell HC items for real money, but this is not very profitable as the prices will not be very high. Why is that the case? Because the demand is way lower, due to the signifcantly lower player base in HC.
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In D2 there's no price disparity between HC and non-HC items, but the fact that the RMT are brought to such a forefront might make the difference more noticeable, increasing the HC prices. Hard to say, but there definitely will be third parties selling HC items.
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a point I thought was kind of bizzare is that the loot you see on the ground is exclusively yours and no one else can see it.
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That's because there's no difference in time it takes to dupe an item 
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I think people overestimate the amount of items that gets traded in RMAH. It looks like you are thinking there will be endless supply of any item, like D2 stores looks to have, but if Blizzard manages to make the game so that duping does not work, the items that actually have some value will be much, much more rare.
Also if someone really is going to buy the gear no matter whats the prize, hes not going to spend money to 2nd best item. He wants the best. So there will be only handful of items that will sell for decent prize.
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I've seen this twice, so I wanted to point this out. If you want to trade an item with a specific person, trade the freakin item in game. They've already said that AH is an addition to the existing trade system. The AH just allows you to trade in a forum where you don't have to search for people through long game names or by what item they want vs what item you want.
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On August 08 2011 09:56 cjin wrote:
I think people overestimate the amount of items that gets traded in RMAH. It looks like you are thinking there will be endless supply of any item, like D2 stores looks to have, but if Blizzard manages to make the game so that duping does not work, the items that actually have some value will be much, much more rare.
Also if someone really is going to buy the gear no matter whats the prize, hes not going to spend money to 2nd best item. He wants the best. So there will be only handful of items that will sell for decent prize.
The thing that makes this so interesting is that it will make gold much more valuable than you think, and items that aren't the best will still have value. Someone selling some super rare hanglider that drops off diablo for 100$ will have it's equivalent in gold no matter what, and people will want to earn that gold, or smaller amounts of money, and be buying and selling everything in between. Of course Blizzard is controlling the RMAH by having flat fees for putting stuff up, but it won't effect the fact that there will be an exchange rate and people will sell items for gold having their eyes on making real money.
Also D2 items are so plentiful because there hasn't been a reset in a long time and botting is insanely prevalent. The best full set probably runs for like 50$ whe they're completely infinite, they're giong to be much more expensive in D3 with no botting, leaving only the richest people to have the best items without earning them.
So while I think there will be plenty of middle-tier items being sold for real money, you're definitely right that it won't be a market of thousands of things being sold for 1 cent.
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Who needs a job? I play Diablo 3 and sell all my wares for real money.
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On August 08 2011 12:27 TheAngelofDeath wrote:
Who needs a job? I play Diablo 3 and sell all my wares for real money.
I'll pay you $1 an hour to count how many times people have posted that exact thought in this topic.
On topic:
I don't like the idea of mainstreaming RM item buying, but I can't stop people from doing it in either case.
If they wanted, they could have certain items be un-purchasable, much like WoW does with BoP items, where you can earn them but can't trade them. This would make D3 kinda a switch from D2, where you could have an alt geared to the teeth without killing a single monster.
As long as they don't touch that frenetic, group game-play with varied, entertaining classes all with so many different ways of playing, you'll please the Diablo loyalists.
What's gonna be tough is deciding which game is more worth the limited hours we all tend to have, D3, or SW:TOR.
Wish Blizz or Bioware would have gotten one out sooner so I won't have such a dilemma!
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On August 08 2011 12:27 TheAngelofDeath wrote:
Who needs a job? I play Diablo 3 and sell all my wares for real money.
In the first few weeks people will make insanely inflated money off of it for sure.
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The more I read the more I realise how fascinating and important this development is. Good or Bad I think it was inevitable. Anyone know of any precedence for this move? I know eve on line let you turn in game cash into game time, and of course there's all the free to play, pay for pretty pictures or advantage stuff but I can't think of anything closer. Is there a market like this in second life maybe? Or Habo hotel?
On August 08 2011 08:15 PassiveAce wrote:
I think someone mentioned earlier that hardcore bars you from RM items, but I didnt see a source.
That's really cool TBH, thanks for clueing me in. Shame you got kicked in the head for it. Was my bad for not reading the thread really. But erm, yea, yippee! hardcore will be hardcore. Apart from the 3rd party stuff but... what can you do? If I ever get the time to invest it could be really fun to have a go at it, though I think I'll probably go softcore with palz mostly, would suck too much to level to X only to have one of us stop being able to play along because they died.
On August 08 2011 08:21 NotJack wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 07:48 Dapper_Cad wrote:
Banning out of AH trades will result in exactly what happens in WoW currently with the cross faction auction houses. You want to give someone an item? You tell them you are putting it on the AH for 1gold, they instantly buy it. You want to trade items? Do the same thing both ways. The only result of this will be that you'll create more ways for people to cheat others by ninjaing these exchanges out from under people. This is why people who didn't play D2 shouldn't be posting/nerd raging. Not only would that not happen since there's no Tanaris AH to do that in, all you have to do to trade an item is drop it on the ground. Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 07:48 Dapper_Cad wrote:
In a world with NO way to sell in-game goods for real world cash the value of in-game labour increases as people can't play to make real world money so people can't play for anything else than to gear up their characters and there is MUCH less insentive to farm. However that world doesn't exist and Blizzards switch to RMAH is an acknowledgement of this. The RMAH will mean labour in the game is worth much less in in-game terms as Gold farmers from countries with low wages work frantically to increase the efficiency of their farming. You even recognize yourself that making this point is useless, because if blizz didn't have it, someone else would. Very nonsensical of you to make a bad point and then explain why that point is bad lol. Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 07:48 Dapper_Cad wrote:
The thing that annoys me is that there will be no way to tell the difference someone who only uses in-game gold from someone who uses cash. While I'd really love to know who was a baller and who was a cash-fag there is no sensible way to do it. Adding some kind of "I've spent cash" flag wouldn't work as you would have to give the flag the instant a character traded or was sent anything because that item might have been bought for cash or bought with gold bought for cash. The only way to do this effectively would be have "No-cash-hardcore" characters who could never trade with other characters that weren't "No-cash-hardcore" characters. If this did actually happen you would get 3rd party sites who traded real money for "No-cash-hardcore" items so you're back to square 1. You can't tell in D2 either, no wonder that game did so poorly. Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 07:48 Dapper_Cad wrote:
Basically it's a giant shit sandwich and we all godda take a bite. The day this situation gets fixed is the day workers around the world earn higher wages, because if it costs $10 an hour to hire a chinese gold farmer then that how much an in game hour is worth. Interestingly this is why standards of living in the west are crashing and will continue to crash over the next few decades. It just takes longer to move physical infrastructure to india/china/haiti/whereever. You think chinese gold farmers work for 10 dollars an hour? I'm sure you know much about the physical infrastructure.
Holding a political position and being unable to read or comprehend arguments do not go well together. I don't see any point in rebuting anything except your first assumption. "This is why people who didn't play D2 shouldn't be posting/nerd raging.". pretty much the first game I played online was diablo 1. The famous "It's ready when it's ready" line of blizzards started being used when they were making diablo 2. I remember because I waited through the 18 months between the first realease date given and when the game actually went gold. I remember corpse explosion being broken and hammerdins.... etc. etc. credentials, credentials.... yawn.
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On August 08 2011 12:48 NotJack wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 12:27 TheAngelofDeath wrote:
Who needs a job? I play Diablo 3 and sell all my wares for real money. In the first few weeks people will make insanely inflated money off of it for sure.
Just like D2 LOD ladder season now. Like always. Now, the issue is what is the endgame plan for D3? A WoW setting where they keep adding 10 levels skills and stuff to do? Or will even the most godly if items be worth 10 cents 2 months in because ladder never resets and never will and there is an abundance of everything because anyone can trade with everyone.
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i absolutly cant wait for this game to come out. it is gunna make me play it through college yayayayay
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EPT
