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On August 08 2011 03:51 27raven wrote:I got this thought today. Call me Mr. Paranoia, but what will stop Blizzard from secretly lowering drop rates of the most wanted items, then have a bot creating fake player accounts and selling them for full profit. + Show Spoiler +I don't really believe that ofc. Blizzard will make enough just through the regular RMAH that they don't need that. But this could happen if the RMAH became new 'industry standard' like f2p is now and games with less players would want to increase the profits.
There's nothing really stopping from Blizzard doing that in any of their games, not just Diablo. If Blizzard wanted to, they could create WoW accounts to sell, make items to sell for real money, sabotage players. I suppose the only thing stopping them is that it would ruin them if people found out.
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The RMAH seems a little off putting to me at first glance, but after really thinking about it I'm for it. People are going to sell items in diablo regardless. Why not let blizzard control it and make it safe. No more shady back alley deals with 3rd party vendors that may or may not be trying to rip you off. The entire AH system will be awesome, no more d2jsp garbage to deal with for trading.
The game should be amazing, I can't wait!!!@#$
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On August 08 2011 03:55 RevRich wrote:
The RMAH seems a little off putting to me at first glance, but after really thinking about it I'm for it. People are going to sell items in diablo regardless. Why not let blizzard control it and make it safe. No more shady back alley deals with 3rd party vendors that may or may not be trying to rip you off. The entire AH system will be awesome, no more d2jsp garbage to deal with for trading.
The game should be amazing, I can't wait!!!@#$
I agree. Every time I think about playing D2 again I realize that I'd most likely have to deal with that retard community, and that really grinds my gears...
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There's one thing that people against the RMAH fail to understand.
Items, whether sold through in-game currency or cash, are STILL in-game items found by other players.
In other words, regardless of whether someone finds an item and sells it for money OR someone finds an item and uses it, there's still only one of that item out there. People have this doomsday scenario where because of a RMAH, everyone with money to spare is going to be decked out in the best gear and having good items will be trivialized. No, the best shit is still going to be extremely rare. You're not going to have 50 of the best item on the RMAH available only to "the rich". A more likely scenario is that you'll have none of that item for a long time, then it appears one day on the AH and gets snatched up immediately. Will the person who bought it necessarily be a rich 30-something professional with money to burn? Maybe, but it could also be the 16 year old high school drop out who farms gold all day. Gold will have a dollar value too.
Let me try to elaborate on iCanada's point that it shouldn't matter to others how someone gets an item. Drops in Diablo are almost entirely luck-based. In D2, did you really care HOW someone in your party got a particular item? Would whether he bought it off d2jsp, traded it via in-game currency, or just found it by dumb luck affect your gaming experience? I would understand the argument if this were WoW, where having better items is an indicator of further progression in the game. Diablo is different. It's a giant free-for-all treasure hunt. There's no "justice" to how people find items. Each day in Diablo, random people win mini-lotteries by finding rare items. These items have value and people pay for that value with their time and money. The RMAH simply opens up an official channel for the exchange of the latter.
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On August 08 2011 03:21 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 03:03 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:On August 08 2011 02:52 turdburgler wrote:On August 07 2011 18:37 iCanada wrote:On August 07 2011 18:30 Ympulse wrote:On August 07 2011 18:12 iCanada wrote:On August 07 2011 18:02 Serpico wrote:On August 07 2011 16:43 Nazarid wrote:On August 07 2011 16:14 Dfgj wrote:On August 07 2011 11:43 VPCursed wrote:
am i one of the few people who don't give a flying fuck if people buy items for RL money?
I mean, really.. how does it effect my experience unless im some raging dude who thinks his life depends on whether or not hes the first to get the most uber character. Do you care if people bot, maphack, or outright cheat? It doesn't effect you. Just want to make sure I know where we stand on this one. It did not affect me in Diablo 2, why would it effect me in Diablo 3? PvP is the only situation this will hurt me and if they want to cheat in PvP more power to the noob. also cheating in diablo 3 will come with possible jail time(IE: botting and selling on the RMAH = fraud) Seems like you dont really care about much of anything then, I myself can't really play with blinders on. I honestly don't see why this pisses you off. The only reason that comes to my mind is you being used to being the elitist 'best of the best' in games like Diablo, and now that someone who has money and a life can be on the same tier as you. However, I am inclined to give people a chance before concluding they are angry tools without lives... That begs the question, why the hell DOES this bother you so much? Yeah they can buy items, or POWER if you want to phrase it like that, but they cannot buy anything you yourself can't get just by playing the game yourself. hell, you could even sell your own ingame gold for E-money/funds to your credit card and buy everything off the RMAH without spending a cent of your own money in the first place. ... I just want to understand. Because it makes it okay for people to buy their rewards instead of earning them, cheapening the experience of the game as a whole. That, at its base, is the problem. Well, is working hard all day to get a paycheck, and then spending that paycheck on something you enjoy not earning it? You ever heard of the saying time is equal to money? I dunno, if someone enjoys getting the best D3 gear out of his bonuses, power to him. Personally, my experience with the D2 hero editor reminds me that this ruins the game for myself, but how does it ruin my gameplay if someone else (whom I'll likely never see/meet ingame or IRL) gets uber gear without "working" for it? Should a game for your enjoyment really be about working hard for items anyway? To use your words, I just don't get how someone buying an item cheapens the game experience for YOU on any basis. It really makes no sense to me. ok so heres a different example. a 17 year old kid works all day at school, but he still doesnt get a paycheck. now he plays d3 pvp in his 2 hours of spare time and gets rolled by some 30 year old guy who gets paid (GOSH WHAT A NO LIFE as you put it) and bought all the items. you're only comparing super hardcore players vs super casual but rich players theres so many other types of peopel who enjoy to play games, and calling people no lives while at the same time calling people tools for being haters makes you look dumb who the hell are you talking to? the guy you quoted wasn't decrying anyone's playstyle, or saying that they have no life try reading back through the series of quotes
why don't you just respond to the posts you are referencing, so that we don't have to re-read half the thread to see what your gibberish is pointing towards?
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On August 08 2011 04:05 showbiz wrote:
There's one thing that people against the RMAH fail to understand.
Items, whether sold through in-game currency or cash, are STILL in-game items found by other players.
In other words, regardless of whether someone finds an item and sells it for money OR someone finds an item and uses it, there's still only one of that item out there. People have this doomsday scenario where because of a RMAH, everyone with money to spare is going to be decked out in the best gear and having good items will be trivialized. No, the best shit is still going to be extremely rare. You're not going to have 50 of the best item on the RMAH available only to "the rich". A more likely scenario is that you'll have none of that item for a long time, then it appears one day on the AH and gets snatched up immediately. Will the person who bought it necessarily be a rich 30-something professional with money to burn? Maybe, but it could also be the 16 year old high school drop out who farms gold all day. Gold will have a dollar value too.
Let me try to elaborate on iCanada's point that it shouldn't matter to others how someone gets an item. Drops in Diablo are almost entirely luck-based. In D2, did you really care HOW someone in your party got a particular item? Would whether he bought it off d2jsp, traded it via in-game currency, or just found it by dumb luck affect your gaming experience? I would understand the argument if this were WoW, where having better items is an indicator of further progression in the game. Diablo is different. It's a giant free-for-all treasure hunt. There's no "justice" to how people find items. Each day in Diablo, random people win mini-lotteries by finding rare items. These items have value and people pay for that value with their time and money. The RMAH simply opens up an official channel for the exchange of the latter.
This is pretty much /thread right here.
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On August 08 2011 03:51 Nazarid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 03:48 smallerk wrote:On August 08 2011 03:46 Nazarid wrote:On August 07 2011 18:02 Serpico wrote:On August 07 2011 16:43 Nazarid wrote:On August 07 2011 16:14 Dfgj wrote:On August 07 2011 11:43 VPCursed wrote:
am i one of the few people who don't give a flying fuck if people buy items for RL money?
I mean, really.. how does it effect my experience unless im some raging dude who thinks his life depends on whether or not hes the first to get the most uber character. Do you care if people bot, maphack, or outright cheat? It doesn't effect you. Just want to make sure I know where we stand on this one. It did not affect me in Diablo 2, why would it effect me in Diablo 3? PvP is the only situation this will hurt me and if they want to cheat in PvP more power to the noob. also cheating in diablo 3 will come with possible jail time(IE: botting and selling on the RMAH = fraud) Seems like you dont really care about much of anything then, I myself can't really play with blinders on. Then it is a simple decision for you, Dont buy the game and good riddance. Yep, good riddance of the players who actually care about the sense of acomplishment in a game. What exactly are you trying to accomplish ?? Seriously i want to know... even if the RMAH did not exist sites like d2jsp would pop up for Diablo 3 and your argument would be moot... This game is not a game where you measure you cock against the next person it is meant to be exactly like diablo, and diablo 2... A grind fest for the best awesome gear. Who exactly are you competing with? Why are you so mad that blizzard made it safe to trade your items ? is it because they get some money and can support the game longer than they did in Diablo 2? I just want to hear A constructive comment from you.
haha well said.
some players think u shud only be rewarded with awesome gear if u spend alot of "time" grinding it.
wat they need to know is everyone's "time" has diff monetary value.
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On August 08 2011 04:23 homer001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 03:51 Nazarid wrote:On August 08 2011 03:48 smallerk wrote:On August 08 2011 03:46 Nazarid wrote:On August 07 2011 18:02 Serpico wrote:On August 07 2011 16:43 Nazarid wrote:On August 07 2011 16:14 Dfgj wrote:On August 07 2011 11:43 VPCursed wrote:
am i one of the few people who don't give a flying fuck if people buy items for RL money?
I mean, really.. how does it effect my experience unless im some raging dude who thinks his life depends on whether or not hes the first to get the most uber character. Do you care if people bot, maphack, or outright cheat? It doesn't effect you. Just want to make sure I know where we stand on this one. It did not affect me in Diablo 2, why would it effect me in Diablo 3? PvP is the only situation this will hurt me and if they want to cheat in PvP more power to the noob. also cheating in diablo 3 will come with possible jail time(IE: botting and selling on the RMAH = fraud) Seems like you dont really care about much of anything then, I myself can't really play with blinders on. Then it is a simple decision for you, Dont buy the game and good riddance. Yep, good riddance of the players who actually care about the sense of acomplishment in a game. What exactly are you trying to accomplish ?? Seriously i want to know... even if the RMAH did not exist sites like d2jsp would pop up for Diablo 3 and your argument would be moot... This game is not a game where you measure you cock against the next person it is meant to be exactly like diablo, and diablo 2... A grind fest for the best awesome gear. Who exactly are you competing with? Why are you so mad that blizzard made it safe to trade your items ? is it because they get some money and can support the game longer than they did in Diablo 2? I just want to hear A constructive comment from you. haha well said. some players think u shud only be rewarded with awesome gear if u spend alot of "time" grinding it. wat they need to know is everyone's "time" has diff monetary value.
Whats the point of having any progression if you just fast forward through most of it with great gear? Whats the point when you trivialize content so quickly?
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On August 08 2011 04:34 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 04:23 homer001 wrote:On August 08 2011 03:51 Nazarid wrote:On August 08 2011 03:48 smallerk wrote:On August 08 2011 03:46 Nazarid wrote:On August 07 2011 18:02 Serpico wrote:On August 07 2011 16:43 Nazarid wrote:On August 07 2011 16:14 Dfgj wrote:On August 07 2011 11:43 VPCursed wrote:
am i one of the few people who don't give a flying fuck if people buy items for RL money?
I mean, really.. how does it effect my experience unless im some raging dude who thinks his life depends on whether or not hes the first to get the most uber character. Do you care if people bot, maphack, or outright cheat? It doesn't effect you. Just want to make sure I know where we stand on this one. It did not affect me in Diablo 2, why would it effect me in Diablo 3? PvP is the only situation this will hurt me and if they want to cheat in PvP more power to the noob. also cheating in diablo 3 will come with possible jail time(IE: botting and selling on the RMAH = fraud) Seems like you dont really care about much of anything then, I myself can't really play with blinders on. Then it is a simple decision for you, Dont buy the game and good riddance. Yep, good riddance of the players who actually care about the sense of acomplishment in a game. What exactly are you trying to accomplish ?? Seriously i want to know... even if the RMAH did not exist sites like d2jsp would pop up for Diablo 3 and your argument would be moot... This game is not a game where you measure you cock against the next person it is meant to be exactly like diablo, and diablo 2... A grind fest for the best awesome gear. Who exactly are you competing with? Why are you so mad that blizzard made it safe to trade your items ? is it because they get some money and can support the game longer than they did in Diablo 2? I just want to hear A constructive comment from you. haha well said. some players think u shud only be rewarded with awesome gear if u spend alot of "time" grinding it. wat they need to know is everyone's "time" has diff monetary value. Whats the point of having any progression if you just fast forward through most of it with great gear? Whats the point when you trivialize content so quickly?
Contrary to popular belief, not all gamers live by some unwritten code of honor which implies that game progress has to be earned and time needs to be spent in order to truly experience the game.
Some people just want to breeze through, see some shinies and then be done with it. Others are collectors. Yet again others may have a quick temper and little patience and want to avoid not-dropping-item frustration by just buying stuff.
The most ridiculous part of the whole discussion about the RMAH is that those that complain the loudest - the folks that vow never to use the RMAH and claim that it'll ruin the game's spirit -
a) aren't affected at all by the effects of it and
b) will probably end up using it anyway
I've lost the link, but especially regarding b) I'd like to refer to the Battlefield Heroes developer slideshow posted earlier here on TL that had some very amazing statistics on forum complainers and their behaviour.
RMAH is a very neat solution to the problem of shady item shops. Blizzard controls it, people can use it without compromising their accounts, and those that don't like the idea simply don't use it and experience little to no effect on their gameplay at all.
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I'm stoked that I can probably pay off D3 just by playing through the game really fast on release day.
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I have no idea why people are crying but those who are most emo over this seem either mediocre players with tons of time on their hand or peeps with millions of forum golds ^_^
Anyone with leet gaming history and 3 seasoned bros will have a field day with this game and end up having good enough gear regardless of whatever, much like wow arena.
Also there is no difference if you trade with golds or walnuts or real moneys unless you actually invest cash into the game which is something no self-respecting gamer does.
So I don't understand this talk of progression, if you're not paying moneys you're progressing right? It's not like you are forced to invest your personal funds into the AH.
Now if you are someone who planned to foster his epeen by farming 20 hours a day and having fundamentally better gear than everyone else and pretending you are good at pvp or something, and now you epeen is flaccid because like 50 people might invest top dollar into the game to have even better gear than you, while all the good players will easily trade themselves into second-tier gear that can compete with no-life gear providing they are better players with a better team, all I can say is gg.
People should address issues that actually matter like zero competitive pvp support as Blizzard's new stance. Now that's something that will actually suck.
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You people do know that there will be level restrictions on the gear so you can't just buy the best gear and fly through it? I would also assume people have done their research and know that the RMAH isn't a cash shop that Blizzard is selling items on, everything on the RMAH is found by someone playing the game.
If you wan to feel high and mighty about your character you do it in Hardcore Mode, where the RMAH is not allowed, not in Softcore easy mode.
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On August 08 2011 02:20 papaz wrote:
False sense and false idea? Who the hell are you to tell how people feels when they play the game?
You coming into this thread after this much discussion and this is your contribution? This was nothing but provocative bs.
Seriously, get out.
O no, I farmed countless hours to get some e-pride... and now someone just bought a better item because they aren't a failure IRL or actually wanted to spend their money, or traded for it, or whatever. People really need to get over this, the items would be bought and sold anyways. Diablo isn't about measuring your gear vs another and getting all bent out of shape about it.
It's about a fun, action packed, treasure hunting experience. I won't be spending any money on the RMAH, I will probably be selling a lot of stuff. Diablo 3 will most likely consume my life and I will strive to have the best gear... but if my rich cousin (who doesn't exist), buys the game and spends 1000 bucks to get an uber character... Does that reaaallly affect me? Should I cry about it?
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If there is demand for the item there will be supply (chinese farmers, account hackers, botters) looking to make money off it. I would wager D3 will be the most botted/farmed/hacked game of all time.
The "this is the only choice we have" is silly. There are plenty of alternate solutions that keep real money trade from happening.
An example. Disable private trades. All goods have to be put up for auction and bought at auction for the transfer to take place. This ensures all items will be purchased with appropriate ingame value and not cash.
The fact is the real money auction house is a money making scheme. Personally I lost all interest in D3 with the recent announcements and general direction of blizzard.
It's silly to say "this is the only solution", stop being so simple minded and tricked easily. Use your brains.
The way you stop "gold/item selling" is simply make sure every ingame trade is "balanced" in terms of value for both traders. If a SOJ is worth 1,000,000 gold, you can only trade when both sides trade 1,000,000 gold in value. this prevents out of game currency from mattering. The only thing to be done to stop RMT is make all trade balanced (public auction, so if you try and give a weapon away for real money, the market itself will bid the item up in value (no buy now price) and make it impossible.
This lowers all RMT to only being actual whole accounts which is easily stopped with proper account recovery methods / ways to make it risky to buy/share accounts with farmers.
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On August 08 2011 06:20 dacthehork wrote:
An example. Disable private trades. All goods have to be put up for auction and bought at auction for the transfer to take place. This ensures all items will be purchased with appropriate ingame value and not cash.
It's silly to say "this is the only solution", stop being so simple minded and tricked easily. Use your brains.
So, what about trading between friends or alts, or what most people will do anyways? And... you can't just obviously think of 10 different ways to "get around" your proposed idea?
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On August 08 2011 06:23 Pufftrees wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 06:20 dacthehork wrote:
An example. Disable private trades. All goods have to be put up for auction and bought at auction for the transfer to take place. This ensures all items will be purchased with appropriate ingame value and not cash.
It's silly to say "this is the only solution", stop being so simple minded and tricked easily. Use your brains. So, what about trading between friends or alts, or what most people will do anyways? And... you can't just obviously think of 10 different ways to "get around" your proposed idea?
please go ahead
alts on the same account could just use the shared stash
The way to allow imbalanced trades between friends is obviously allow a certain value threshold. Sufficiently common items will have no worthwhile $ value and therefore have no associated Real money value. So allow a small number of low value trades privately between friends. Either way you are restricted on what items drop to being ones that are for your class. This means monks only get monk weapons. So unless your friend is the same class there really is nothing to worry about. worst case scenario he can just earn the item himself or buy it at auction.
Again if you have to buy items at auction and sell them in auction its virtually impossible to trade anything of value for real money. (dropping items would be invisible to other players, just like item drops are anyway)
just because people are too simple minded to think of ways to stop RMT doesn't mean they dont exist. There are tradeoffs, there are tradeoffs with a inbuilt cash shop too (more hacking of accounts, more incentive to bot, more incentive to factory farm)
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On August 08 2011 06:20 dacthehork wrote:
The way you stop "gold/item selling" is simply make sure every ingame trade is "balanced" in terms of value for both traders. If a SOJ is worth 1,000,000 gold, you can only trade when both sides trade 1,000,000 gold in value. this prevents out of game currency from mattering. The only thing to be done to stop RMT is make all trade balanced (public auction, so if you try and give a weapon away for real money, the market itself will bid the item up in value (no buy now price) and make it impossible.
This lowers all RMT to only being actual whole accounts which is easily stopped with proper account recovery methods / ways to make it risky to buy/share accounts with farmers.
hahaha
your solution sounds like a closed market in a communist country lol. I don't think i would want to play a game where the head of state (Blizz) sets all fixed prices for private transactions. sounds rather drastic if you ask me.
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On August 08 2011 06:32 PassiveAce wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 06:20 dacthehork wrote:
The way you stop "gold/item selling" is simply make sure every ingame trade is "balanced" in terms of value for both traders. If a SOJ is worth 1,000,000 gold, you can only trade when both sides trade 1,000,000 gold in value. this prevents out of game currency from mattering. The only thing to be done to stop RMT is make all trade balanced (public auction, so if you try and give a weapon away for real money, the market itself will bid the item up in value (no buy now price) and make it impossible.
This lowers all RMT to only being actual whole accounts which is easily stopped with proper account recovery methods / ways to make it risky to buy/share accounts with farmers.
hahaha your solution sounds like a closed market in a communist country lol. I don't think i would want to play a game where the head of state (Blizz) sets all fixed prices for private transactions. sounds rather drastic if you ask me.
no there would simply be a public auction house. AKA I want to get rid of item I dont need or just want gold. I put it up for auction and highest bid gets the item (24 hour time). I want to buy an item I check the auctions and put a max bid price.
Again it just ensures that every item is sold/bought at proper ingame value with a balanced trade. AKA I cant just give you an item and receive 20 dollars which is how RMT functions.
Having an ingame real money trade service is drastic imo. Its hard for most people to grasp the ramifications but expect a large market of farmers / hackers /botters to become the norm.
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On August 08 2011 06:05 Pufftrees wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 02:20 papaz wrote:
False sense and false idea? Who the hell are you to tell how people feels when they play the game?
You coming into this thread after this much discussion and this is your contribution? This was nothing but provocative bs.
Seriously, get out. O no, I farmed countless hours to get some e-pride... and now someone just bought a better item because they aren't a failure IRL or actually wanted to spend their money, or traded for it, or whatever. People really need to get over this, the items would be bought and sold anyways. Diablo isn't about measuring your gear vs another and getting all bent out of shape about it. It's about a fun, action packed, treasure hunting experience. I won't be spending any money on the RMAH, I will probably be selling a lot of stuff. Diablo 3 will most likely consume my life and I will strive to have the best gear... but if my rich cousin (who doesn't exist), buys the game and spends 1000 bucks to get an uber character... Does that reaaallly affect me? Should I cry about it?
what about EVE? 
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EPT
